What does everyone think about plastics in children's products?

[gatorsmom]

I recently read an article about which plastics are harmful (i.e. toxic to the environment and people) and was shocked to find that many are in children's products. I was even more dismayed (although not shocked)to read that the toxic plastics were outlawed for use in children's products in many European countries but not in the US. I read that some manufacturers no longer use these plastics in the European- bound markets but since they aren't outlawed here, they still use the toxic plastics in american children's products.

The article stated (and I've noticed this before)that American plastic products are labeled with the type of plastic they contain, #1-7. Plastics marked with numbers 3,6,&7 have toxic chemicals in them. The other ones are not harmful. Since the Avent bottles I use are made in England, and thus are not stamped on the bottom with the type of plastic they use, AND since toxic plastics aren't outlawed here for use in babys products (so manufacturers use them anyway), here's my big question: ARE TOXIC PLASTICS USED IN MY CLEAR AVENT BOTTLES? I just want to know if any of you have researched any of this before I started to make phone calls and ask questions. I'm really concerned about this.

[table4three]

I don't have the link to the thread that discussed this last year, but here are two of the links about plastics I saved at the time:

http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/pdf/plasticchart.pdf
http://www.environmentalobservatory.org/library.cfm?refid=77083

I know people's views on this will vary, but personally, I chose to get rid of my Avent bottles and switched to playtex disposable nursers as a result of what I read. From what I've read here, Avent sold in the US still is made of #7 plastic.

If I find the link to the old thread on this, I'll add it.

ETA:
Here is one of the threads about this:
http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=86&topic_id=35381&mesg_id=35381&listing_type=search

HTH.

http://b2.lilypie.com/mkn7m5.png

[Tondi G]

YUP! Avent bottles are made of #7 plstic as far as I remember! I was so glad DS#2 actually preferred the Playtex Nurser with drops ins! I tossed the package of Avent bottles that we bought for #2 after reading about the plastic!

Good luck
~Tondi
Mommy to Mason 7/8/01 and Aidan 5/4/05

[megs4413]

it really sucks that the avent bottles are made from #7 here in the states. when i tell other moms they usually ignore me.....i tell everyone i know when they're pregnant so they won't make the mistake of buying them. many people really put in a lot of research and a ton of money buying those bottles--and i think the company should have to reimburse them!

[gatorsmom]

Oh my God! That is what I was afraid of! The article I read (and I have it in front of me) is from Minnesota Parent Magazine, October 2006, pg. 13, "Plastics of most concern to scientists are those that include bisphenol A(BPA), which is used in hard, clear polycarabonate plastic, or phthalates, chemical compounds that make plastics more flexible. BPA is typically found in baby bottles, sippy cups, and a variety of food-storage products-and herein lies the danger. The chemical bond holding BPA together is extremely unstable under heat and releases chemicals under such stress. 'It's basic undergraduate chemistry that ester bond in polycarbonate breaks down under heat,' explains Fred vom Saal, a professor of biology at the university of missouri at Columbus. 'Parents are told to sterilize baby bottles, when there's huge scientific literature showing this isn't safe with that kind of plastic.' 'Using these plastics is like giving your baby a birth control pill, says vom Saal. 'We have 140 government-funded, published, and peer-reviewed major journal articles showing brain damage, behavioral changes, hyperactivity, interference in the reproductive development in males- it's horrific literature.'"

I got my Avent bottles used from a friend and used them with my first AND second child. Although I breast fed my sons until they were 10 months old, I used the bottles for at least 3-4 months after that until they were weaned.

I'll stop using them immediately but in the mean time, I'm really pissed off that AVENT still uses that plastic with their American products. Anyone know who I can contact to fight this not just at Avent but in our government??

[gatorsmom]

Oh my God! That is what I was afraid of! The article I read (and I have it in front of me) is from Minnesota Parent Magazine, October 2006, pg. 13, "Plastics of most concern to scientists are those that include bisphenol A(BPA), which is used in hard, clear polycarabonate plastic, or phthalates, chemical compounds that make plastics more flexible. BPA is typically found in baby bottles, sippy cups, and a variety of food-storage products-and herein lies the danger. The chemical bond holding BPA together is extremely unstable under heat and releases chemicals under such stress. 'It's basic undergraduate chemistry that ester bond in polycarbonate breaks down under heat,' explains Fred vom Saal, a professor of biology at the university of missouri at Columbus. 'Parents are told to sterilize baby bottles, when there's huge scientific literature showing this isn't safe with that kind of plastic.' 'Using these plastics is like giving your baby a birth control pill, says vom Saal. 'We have 140 government-funded, published, and peer-reviewed major journal articles showing brain damage, behavioral changes, hyperactivity, interference in the reproductive development in males- it's horrific literature.'"

I got my Avent bottles used from a friend and used them with my first AND second child. Although I breast fed my sons until they were 10 months old, I used the bottles for at least 3-4 months after that until they were weaned.

I'll stop using them immediately but in the mean time, I'm really pissed off that AVENT still uses that plastic with their American products. Anyone know who I can contact to fight this not just at Avent but in our government??

[CharmedOne]

Great. How did I miss this discussion the first time around?! We have been using Medela and Avent bottles for DS since day one. We're trying to get him to drink (whole) milk from a cup instead of a bottle, but it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon. I'll switch out the bottles right away! Which ones are "safe"?

Caroline

http://b2.lilypie.com/3k5Am7/.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif 16 months

[CharmedOne]

Great. How did I miss this discussion the first time around?! We have been using Medela and Avent bottles for DS since day one. We're trying to get him to drink (whole) milk from a cup instead of a bottle, but it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon. I'll switch out the bottles right away! Which ones are "safe"?

Caroline

http://b2.lilypie.com/3k5Am7/.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif 16 months

[brittone2]

As a mama with PCOS, I'm very worried about the effects of plastics and pthalates in general have on our bodies and those of our children. We have phased out as much plastic as possible for the past 3 years or so...mostly wooden toys, pyrex and glass for food storage, using stainless steel water bottles.

Phthalates are hormone disrupting chemicals and are not just in plastics but cosmetic products, fragrances (so often just labeled as "fragrance"...you won't see phthalates on the ingredient list), etc.

Bisphenol A is also in dental sealants FWIW.

Fun stuff. I know not everyone gets worried about these things but I often wonder about the origins of my PCOS and I wonder about the environmental causes surrounding issues like male infertility, etc.

I heard an interview on NPR the other week about how scientists (I want to say this was in MD)found fish that have both male and female sex organs (although it is apparent just from their appearance...they had to dissect them). One of the theories was that it was caused by environmental pollutants.

[brittone2]

As a mama with PCOS, I'm very worried about the effects of plastics and pthalates in general have on our bodies and those of our children. We have phased out as much plastic as possible for the past 3 years or so...mostly wooden toys, pyrex and glass for food storage, using stainless steel water bottles.

Phthalates are hormone disrupting chemicals and are not just in plastics but cosmetic products, fragrances (so often just labeled as "fragrance"...you won't see phthalates on the ingredient list), etc.

Bisphenol A is also in dental sealants FWIW.

Fun stuff. I know not everyone gets worried about these things but I often wonder about the origins of my PCOS and I wonder about the environmental causes surrounding issues like male infertility, etc.

I heard an interview on NPR the other week about how scientists (I want to say this was in MD)found fish that have both male and female sex organs (although it is apparent just from their appearance...they had to dissect them). One of the theories was that it was caused by environmental pollutants.

[table4three]

From the link above, these are the bottles listed as "safe". The plastics to avoid are #3, 6, and 7. We switched to the playtex drop in system. Also not on this list are playtex sippy cups (sipsters?) which are #5, which we use now.

#5 Evenflo colored Baby Bottles
#5 Evenflo Baby Bottles (opaque, pastel)
#5 Gerber Baby Bottles (colored)
#5 Gerber’s Fun Grips Spill Proof Cups
#5 Gerber ‘Lil Sport Bottles Spill Proof
Cups
#5 Ideal Temp Feeding Spoons
#5 Less Mess Toddler Bowls
#5 Less Mess Toddler Spoons
#5 Stroll ‘N Snack Cups
#5 Medela Baby Cups
#5 Medela Baby Bottles and feeders
#4 Playtex disposable Baby Bottle Liners
#5 Sassy E-Z Grip Cups
#5 Sassy E-Z Grip First Feeding Bowls
#5 Sassy MAM Spill-Proof Cups
#5 Sip-a-Bowl by Arrow Plastic
#5 Temperature Sensitive Forks
and Spoons
#5 The First Years Sesame Street
Trainer Cups.
#5 The First Years Tumble Mates
(Spill-Proof and Trainer Cups)
#5 The First Years Winnie the Pooh
Trainer Cups


and from the other site:

More on baby bottles and “sippy� cups
Avoid: Polycarbonate product examples
Bottles: Avent; Dr. Brown’s; Evenfl o (clear); First Years; Gerber
(clear); Playtex Vent Aire; Sassy; TupperCare
“Sippy� cups: Gerber Suzy’s Zoo & Sippy Snacker, Playtex
First Sipster & Sparkling Sipster

Safer alternatives:
Non- polycarbonate product examples
Bottles: Evenfl o glass or pastel polyethylene plastic; Gerber
polypropylene opaque plastic; Medela breastmilk polypropylene
storage bottles and polyethylene milk storage bags; disposable
bottle systems with polyethylene plastic inserts (e.g., Playtex
Nurser, Playtex Drop-Ins)
“Sippy� cups made of polypropylene or polyethylene: Avent
Magic Cup; Evenfl o cups (inner lining); First Years Take & Toss;
Gerber Color Change, Sport Fun Grip and Soft Starter; Playtex
Sipster, Big Sipster & Quick Straw

Baby bottle nipples are usually made of silicone or latex
rubber. Silicone nipples are lighter in color and are safer, as latex
rubber nipples may leach carcinogenic nitrosamines.

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[gatorsmom]

I'm also very concerned about the effects of plastics. I'm really just concerned about the effects of chemicals in general. My family and my husband's family both have a high incidence of cancer- especially breast cancer. I intend to phase out plastics from our house too- I've just been running into some roadblocks.

For example- do you drink bottled water? Most of that water comes in plastic bottles. Do you use the pyrex dishes that have plastic lids that come with them? Do your children use sippy cups? Do you ever use zip loc bags? What other things have you replaced in your house?

[brittone2]

We only used a sippy very, very minimally...mostly at my parents' house as they have one for DS. DS went right to a small glass (think jelly jar) before he was a year old without much difficulty. We have Klean Kanteens and he has been using that for over a year now (he's 2.5) without problems when we are in the car, etc.

For pyrex, I don't mind the lid that much as it doesn't contact our food 90 percent of the time. We don't use ziplocks much at all, and when I do (last resort), I wrap first in unbleached, unwaxed parchment paper first to prevent food from contacting the plastic. We rarely drink bottled water unless we're out and about and haven't brought our own water along, which isn't often, and it is so rare that I don't worry much about the time when we do. We cook with non-aluminum stainless steel, but mostly use cast iron. No teflon left in the house at this point.

We store flour, grains, etc. in large glass containers. We do buy frozen veggies, etc. and those are in plastic, although when possible we transfer to a non plastic container. Our milk comes in glass bottles. We don't buy a ton of processed/packaged foods, so that helps reduce how much plastic touches our stuff although you can't avoid it entirely, obviously.

We definitely haven't gotten plastic out of our lives entirely, but we've definitely, definitely reduced the amount we use and we keep working in that direction. I don't let it drive me too crazy, but just replace as I'm able and keep moving in the direction we want to go.

It sounds like I'm paranoid, but I'm not ;) I don't let it affect the quality of my life or anything, we just keep moving toward eliminating more and more plastic as we can.

[gatorsmom]

I don't think you're paranoid- I think you are smart! It is a difficult war to wage because plastic is convenient and is everywhere!

I don't really have the option to get our milk in glass bottles. No delivery here for that so plastic it will have to be. I've tried to use cast iron pans but they are a pain to keep clean. I'm thinking seriously of buying (since I can get them on sale through december) Le Creuset pots. They are ceramic coated cast iron. The French use them religiously and they have some long life expectancies!

What about your bread - do you buy it or make it at home? And the glass containers you use to store your flour, etc., does it seal well at the top to prevent pests?

[megs4413]

we use the playtex nursers with drop ins. we use the take and toss plates, forks, spoons, and sippies.

I also want to remind everyone that part of the problem is in heating these plastics....that's why they're particularly dangerous in baby bottles--cause they have to be heated to be sterilized.

I'm sorry you gusy missed the first thread...and i'm glad someone started the topic again! Does anyone know if the Fields are including this information in their newest book?

[maestramommy]

Okay, I'm going to go against the tide (no flames please). To answer your title question, I don't. Think about the plastics I mean. I guess I could, but I just can't feeling that after plastics, there's going to be something else, and something else, and yet something else that I have to be afraid of harming my babies and my family. Unless I see/read/hear something REALLY definitive I'm just not going to worry about it. Of course, I take obvious precautions, like not nuking in plastic containers, or pour boiling liquid into the bottles for later consumption. The only bottles I had were ones made with #7 plastic, and since DD was mostly bfed I just didn't think it was worth worrying about or buying another round of bottles. But this is just our (me and dh) personal decision.

I know harmful plastics is a topic that comes up again and again. I'm just wondering (not to hijack) am I the only one that feels this way?

[dogmom]

Well, this information isn't going to make me go out an buy new bottles for my DH to use when I'm at work. I ditched the Advent bottles I used for DS for DD, because I figured 3 years was two old and the plastic might be unstable. I never sterilize because I never got the whole notion of sterilization. (The gut is not sterile) So my bottles never get boiled. I guess if I knew I might have bought a different kind of bottle than the Platex Ventair, and if I buy more I might change.

[Eloise36]

OMG, all I have are Avent bottles! I am going to throw them away as DD doesn't really like them anyway.

I don't know how I missed the information the first time around, but I am glad this discussion came up again.

[jennifer_r]

Generally as a rule, we do not drink bottled water (unless we're out) and we also only serve bottled water to guests if we're having a large party, just for convenience. Bottled water does not have to go through any safety requirements, unlike tap water, and can often have harmful toxins in it. At our old house we had a well and the water tasted great; we got it tested every year and it always came back with pristine results. When we moved awhile ago, we had city water. The water tastes horrible from the tap but we use the filtered water from the fridge, which tastes fine. So, it is actally safer, in most cases, to drink tested city tap water than bottled water (it just may not taste as good).

Also, many people reuse the plastic water bottles over and over again- very bad idea. After awhile, the plastic starts to break down and toxins leach into the water. There's been studies into this and they recommend throwing away the bottle or, if you must reuse it, then do so only a couple of times.

I hope I didn't scare you more!


Jennifer

Mom to:
Christopher 12/29/89
Adelaide 8/23/04
Bronwyn 11/9/05

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[elliput]

I know this information will be biased toward Avent bottles, but is something you should also be aware of. http://www.aventamerica.com/support/tipsfaqs/bottlefeeding.asp#bisphenola

[holliam]

I think about it a lot. I think sometimes people think I want wooden toys for DD because I'm a snob. Whatever. I am concerned so I limit exposure significantly. I suppose there is always going to be something else to worry about, but I don't think that is a valid reason to not do something that is important to us. Besides, this is something that is relatively simple to reduce in my home, so I do it.

My father was a chemical engineer in the plastics industry his whole life. Even he agrees that there are many materials that should not be used in children's products. We had many heated discussions about this (he does not agree with all my concerns but many of them) in the past. I should have taken good notes on these discussions since he has since had a stroke and is no longer to remember much of his previous knowledge.

Holli

[Fairy]

I admmit, I'm wondering about this one. The first thing I do when I hear "danger, something's gonna kill you!" warnings is go to www.snopes.com. Yet, even they don't debunk the #7 plastics warnings. They do debunk other plastics stuff, like not freezing water bottles. But this one they don't. I'm an all Avent all the time person, so this is a little scary. The thing is, Avent is so high quality. It's well-made, the construction is top notch, and I'm sorry, but those gerber sippy cups just always seemed cheap to me. Now, Platex I kind of liked but mostly for their sippy cups. Well, it's time for DS to probably abandon the sippy pretty soon anyway, being 2 and all.

I agree with PPs and Gilda Radner that It's always SOMETHIN'. If it's not the plastic, it's gonna be what they painted the wood with. If it's not the paint, it's gonna be the size of the hole on the shape sorter trapping DC's hand. If it's not the hole, then it's gonna be the partially hydrogenated oils. I admit, I'm paranoid and go out of my way to steer clear of anything "bad" from a food perspective and safety perspective, but I've gotta tell ya, I'm starting to fall behind. Just can't keep up!

[megs4413]

i hear you on that front. When is it going to end??? should i become amish? but then what will i do about vaccinations and antibiotics? it's just too hard to live your modern life in a completely safe way. we all do the best we can...

on the avent front, i think it's importan to understand that they feel it is safe when it's used for its "intended purpose". Which would include not superheating the bottles. unfortunately, most people's dishwashers superheat everything in order to clean them thoroughly so even if you're not boiling your #7 avents, you may be superheating them in the dishwasher. You could always hand wash of course and many people with avents (or dr. brown's or vent aires, etc.) make that change but don't go all the way to ditching them. I think that is perfectly reasonable, but just as reasonable is not buying them if you don't have them already. Why mess with it?

[gatorsmom]

I've been working recently on our family history. Some of my cousins have traced our history back to the early 1800's. With the exception of farming accidents killing off our relatives or a contracted disease (like tuberculosis), I came from pretty hardy stock. NO history of cancer or diabetes- these people lived off the land on farms (hell, they even made their own soap!) and lived until their late 80's healthy and happy.

In the past 15 years, however, our relatives are coming down with cancer. These are the relatives that only lived a few years of their life on the farm before they moved into the city with their parents. They were bottle fed, ate bread packaged in bread bags, drank fluoride- improved city wather, and started to live the "modern" life. Have these changes contributed to their later illnesses? What I want to know is, WHAT ARE WE INTRODUCING INTO OUR CHILDREN'S AND OUR LIVES THAT CAN HURT US?

You know, you can really get through your day to day and push these concerns to the back of your mind until someone close to you gets cancer. Then it's in your mind ALL THE TIME. My mom died of breast cancer last year. She was 63. I would give up the microwave, all the plastics, the teflon, the cleaning chemicals, every harmful convenience in my life if it meant I would not have to see my children suffer the way she did. I WOULD CUT OFF MY RIGHT ARM if it would prevent them from suffering that way.

[chlobo]

I think there are lots of things in modern living that are bad for us and are doing us harm. Some are known and others are not.

As I see if, if we can reduce or elminate the toxic burden in a relatively easy way (ie giving up a certain kind of plastic bottle) then why not? It's true you can't worry about everything but you can do a little here and there to make a difference.

[jamsmu]

b/c I just turned over DS' Liquilytes (so he needs it medically...) and its in a #7 bottle. So I'm curious, if I keep the drink in the sealed container, then pour it into a Playtex #5 sippy, will it be healthy?

I always skim this topic in the past, didn't give it much thought... but now I'm starting to think about it.

[DrSally]

I think Medela are safe (cloudy plastic)

[gatorsmom]

I think it matters how long the product is in the plastic container. If the chemical bond in the plastic is as unstable as this professor says, then I bet some of the chemicals leach off even when the plastic is NOT heated. So, yes, I imagine some of the product will have the chemicals in it, but probably less than if the medicine sat in the plastic for a long time. Does that make any sense?

[cmdunn1972]

Without doubting the validity of the studies that have been quoted here, my thoughts are along similar lines as yours. While I do my best to protect my child from obvious harm, I can't help but think that everything can be dangerous to some degree. As my child's parent, it's my job to figure out which dangers we can avoid, and which ones we can live with.

[cmdunn1972]

It might not be what they are cooking their food in so much as what they are eating, or failing to eat enough of.

We have an obesity epidemic in our country as well. I don't think we can attribute that to plastics and teflon. As a PP mentioned, there are many dangers associated with modern-day living. With so many changes in lifestyle between then and now, who's to say there's only one contributing factor?

[michellep]

I feel this way as well. From what I've read the phthalates in our systems are coming mostly from our food supply. I haven't removed a single plastic item from our house. For what it's worth I've never bought in to the teflon scare either.

I am however extremely conscious of the food we buy. I see much more cause for concern over the milk my family actually drinks rather than whether or not it spent some time in a plastic cup.

-M

[Sillygirl]

One thing has been mentioned in the news media recently - in relation to the new BCP that eliminates menstruation. Anwyay, the articles point out that our ancestresses started their period later in life (poorer nutrition), got pregnant more often (no birth control), breastfed longer (no formula) - all leading to far fewer periods in the course of their lifetime. Some risk factors for breast cancer are thought to be related to your breast tissue going through more cumulative monthly cycles - the more periods you have, the more the risk. But I'm not willing to say that improved nutrition and birth control aren't major advances that have helped millions of women. And formula has been a godsend to moms and babies that aren't able to breastfeed.

I'm just trying to point out that evaluating cause and effect can be very, very complicated. As a species we're not very good at evaluating risks - we tend to overmagnify rare risks to an enormous degree. My mom's a breast cancer survivor, too, and I'd like to do reasonable things to reduce my own risk. I think it's easy to google and see lots of scary things, but I take most of those with a big helping of salt - or at least I would if salt weren't so unhealthy. :P

[chlobo]

I agree with what you are saying here. I'm curious about how you (personally) do go about rating risk? As you said you can google a lot of things and find scary stuff. On the flip side, governments tends to be slow to react to risk and substantial harm can be done before they do react. So have you found a good middle ground?

[mik8]

{Sillygirl - on your last paragraph} ITA!

Believe it or not, we cannot escape plastics. It's everywhere. It's in the carpet, our car, vinyl flooring, etc. Everytime we get into our car when the sun's UV ray shines through our car windows, small molecular particles emanating from plastics probably liberate through the air and potentially in the air we breathe. I'd like to be well informed as much as I can but I will not let things affect me too much in my daily living. They even said that there comes a time when the very own chair we're sitting will become carcinogenic. The way I look at it is that I want to live life to its fullest, stay informed as much as I possibly can, enjoy it, choose what I can live with and cannot, but IMHO I wouldn't let myself get too wrapped up on this (yes, I have 2 uncles and 1 distant cousin who died from various form of cancers). I figure we're all going to die of something someday but I sure hope I won't suffer in my last moments ;(.

[sdoyle]

In total agreement. When I first read about the plastic "scare" I immediately went out and bought Gerber bottles that were recommended and worked feverishly to get DD to take them for a week. They were TERRIBLE! She spit out more than she drank. She ate so much better with the Avent bottles so we switched back. I guess I finally came to grips with the fact that there will always be "something" as PP said and I just have to decide which things I can tackle and which I can't.

Ideally, we would all be eating enough fiber, green leafy vegetables, organic food, salmon, drink a glass of red wine every night, avoiding plastics, pollution, loud noises, etc, etc, etc. All we can do is our best. I find sometimes I am just SO overwhelmed thinking "I need to do that" or "stop this". What a crazy world we live in!! We (humans) used to just need to worry about finding food and avoiding larger carnivores :)

[jamsmu]

That makes sense. Its pretty alarming, even the feel of these bottles (and Pedialyte bottles feel the same, I believe) is less than a #5. The good(?) news, if there is any, is that this product has a limited shelf life. Or... at least I hope it does. I bought it today and it expires in January... then again, I wonder how long its been on the shelf (though I don't imagine long. They always seem to run out at the stores around here...)

Another Gerber product, though. Makes me want to check out the numbers on all of their babyfood products. I just can't imagine!

[Dee150]

Thanks for your post Beth! We have been doing much of the same things you mentioned in your post...I had a few questions- TIA! Where do you buy your parchment paper from? And you say non-aluminium SS - does some SS have some AL in it? Or are you just referencing the 'No-aluminium' cookware part? (sorry if this sounds dense!- all my cookware is SS or cast iron, and I'd heard of some nickel etc. leaching from new SS (from the polish/finish) so was wondering....). Another thought- when I was pumping for DS I remember reading that breastmilk loses some nutrients when refrigerated in glass containers - is that a concern for cow's milk? (surely cartons/ plastic containers leach stuff in, so the glass is still a better choice!)
For gatorsmom - I found glass containers at IKEA for storing grains/ flour. The lids are metal but lined in plastic and have a 'seal'. For the size, they are quite reasonably priced.

ETF typo.

[gatorsmom]

You'd become a lot more concerned about this if YOU found out that you had breast cancer, or ovarian, or uterine, etc., cancer. A mother in my neighborhood who is 35 and has 3 young children just found out she has breast cancer. The topic of harmful substances in our environment becomes a WHOLE lot more important to people when it hits them or someone very close.

[Fairy]

On the contrary, I think Mik8 and, in fact, all of us are terribly concerned about not just plastics but how the environment around us are impacting our health and the health of our children. Just because s/he is taking a more stress-free attitude about it does not mean they're not concerned.

The way I see it is that we all have things impacting our lives personally. One person's Priority One is another person's Priority Nine. That doesn't mean, necessarily, that that person's individual prioritization is wrong, it's just right for them. I have alot to worry about in my life. Priority One is on top for a reason for me, and it probalby makes no difference to mik8 or to you or to Becky or to Jeanne or loads of others. And their Priority One may or may not make any difference to me. But they're all valid. To ourselves.

Do I worry about not contaminating my son with carcinogens? Of course, I do. I can eliminate smoking from his immediate world, but that will not stop a passing person walking on the sidewalk from exhaling it right when we're passing by. With plastics, I use Avent. He's 2. Been using Avent his whole life. I can go buy all new sippy cups right now, or I can make do and no longer put very hot water in them when I wash them. Of higher priority to me right now is that his asthma is under control. That's my priority and I don't apologize for it. Plastics may be your priority,a nd you shouldn't apologize for that, either.

[mik8]

I'm not going to elaborate further on this. My family are "very much so concern" about cancer. In fact, my DH devotes solely his career working to fight and cure leukemia. His is currently working on how to treat graft vs. host disease. And yes, I work in the hospital so I know what it's like to be beside someone who is suffering. Believe me, I do.......

ETA: Thank you, Fairy for expounding my "own" opinion better. Just wanted to add that there are A LOT to worry around us. My whole notion about not getting too wrapped up in plastics does not imply that I am not in any way concern about it. It's my own volition to choose the level of stress I can live and deal with regarding plastics.

[brittone2]

I don't usually bake my own bread. Some day, but for now, I can't do it weekly. We buy Ezekial bread, frozen, and yes, in plasic :P As I said, we just try to do what we can do ;)

For us cast iron works great, but it takes time to get it really well seasoned. We usually just have to wipe out grease and if it needs scrubbed at all we use coarse sea salt and a little water on a dish towel, which works great. Not much harder for us than regular pots/pans, and often easier. I'm after some Le Creuset too LOL ;)

Our containers for bulk flour, etc. are from Ikea. They are big! We have a 2nd fridge/freezer in our laundry room and I keep the grains/flour, etc. refrigerated so no pests. We have a grain mill so we grind our flour every so often from wheatberries, which also means it doesn't sit around that long.

[brittone2]

Hey...I think we have the same ikea containers LOL ;)

I'm pretty sure there is SS cookware with aluminum in it. I've heard of "tri ply" which is a mix of metals including aluminum.

I actually thought that with breastmilk the proteins (or is it the antibodies?) can stick to plastics when stored in them, so I was under the impression there is less of a problem with glass. I pumped occasionally with DS and froze but he never took a bottle so we really didn't use it...so I'm not too up to date on storage. Our milk is stored in glass, but super fresh (like a day or two or less from the cow) as we buy from a local farmer. It is raw too so it retains more nutrients (yes, controversial topic LOL), probiotics, enzymes, etc. I do occasionally buy from a local dairy that sells in stores and is rBGH-free or I buy Organic Valley (no option for glass though).

Oh, the parchment we buy from our local grocery co-op. I think Whole FOods might sell it too and I've seen it online (amazon?)

This isn't the brand we have and it is a huge roll but here's an example:
http://www.amazon.com/Unbleached-Parchment-Paper-Triple-Roll/dp/B00004RKG6/sr=8-2/qid=1161795591/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-6556926-5156821?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden

Not sure if that helps at all!

[brittone2]

This is also true of food storage containers...I think plastic #1 is a big culprit. It is one-time use only...so it is a "safer" food plastic, but not to be re-used. Some yogurt containers, cottage cheese containers, etc. are this type of plastic.

Also anytime you put plastic through the dishwasher, you are heating it and affecting the chemical composition, so even if you aren't microwaving in it, the heat from the dishwasher can be a problem (I know this is true of plastic 7/polycarbonate, which includes Nalgene bottles, certain baby bottles etc.)

[aliceinwonderland]

"It's my own volition to choose the level of stress I can live and deal with regarding plastics."

ITA. We can choose to be completely reactionary and go crazy over this, and I certainly have before. It does nothing for my mental health and my general quality of life to get on such a cruscade, however. More power to those who do, I guess everyone has to decide which risks of modern life they are comfortable with and act accordingly. Like someone else hinted above (Beth I think) I have some trouble with the resulting contradictions: Sure, I can buy all wood toys (though the irony of a wood microwave does not escape me), but then most of us, and our children too, spend hours each week in urban air, in coated plastic boxes (our cars), etc. etc.

[brittone2]

ITA that my opinion might not be as strong if I weren't dealing w/ an endocrine disorder myself. I believe that the impact of this stuff is substantial...we aren't talking about exposure to one or two products. It permeates what we eat, what we drink, what our kids play with, etc. so IMO it is different than certain other exposures that some people do or do not worry about regularly.

Infertility continues to climb, and IMO there's a chance it is related to estrogen-mimicking chemicals in plastics, pesticides and cosmetics, among other products. Ditto for cancer.

I'm not suggesting it is a problem for everyone, but for my family, yes, it is a problem. Yes, I'm going to try to reduce my exposure and my children's exposure, without driving myself insane, because it is important to me.

I grew up with an orchard behind my house and a creek running through my parents' property. I know the owners of the orchard weren't exactly great about disposing of chemicals properly. I sometimes wonder if that is related to my PCOS...uterine exposure to who knows what. There's no way to know, but that is one of my concerns.

Interesting website/book (haven't read the whole book myself)
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/

[brittone2]

ITA. I don't think that concern equals driving yourself nuts and not enjoying day to day life. Honestly, I've just moved toward products I'm more comfortable with as I was able. I swear, I don't cower in the dark afraid of plastics ;) or think that it is the sole cause of the health problems in this country (at all!!). I feel power is in how we spend our money (I'm talking about my money, not saying this should be true of everyone) and I choose to buy products with which I'm more comfortable vs. the ones that I have issues with. I don't drive myself nuts with it, but again, I've just gradually phased out the products that concern me w/ products that I feel better about. It isn't perfection, but any amount I can minimize my exposure and my kids makes me feel better about our quality of life.

My priorities aren't the same as everyone else's, and I think that's fine. I have a family that was hit hard by cancer and with my own endocrine issues, the possible connection between products like pesticides, plastics, etc. and these conditions is something important to *me*.

[brittone2]

I love the irony of Gerber...their organic baby food now lovingly packaged in a plastic container rather than glass. Blech.

[jamsmu]

No kidding -- absolutely ridiculous.

[elliput]

Chances are those Gerber organic carrots in plastic containers have been in contact with several of the items on this list. http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/opa-fcn.html

[Sillygirl]

>My whole notion about not getting too wrapped up in plastics does
>not imply that I am not in any way concern about it.

Don't get wrapped up in plastics - you'll get overheated and have difficulty breathing. I think we can all agree on that level of risk. :P

[Dee150]

Thanks, it does help! I do have 2 pans/skillets with the tri-ply - these have aluminium 'sandwiched' between layers of SS (apparently for better heat distribution), so the aluminium doesn't come in contact with the food...but its there! I completely forgot about those!