How do I trust him...or should I???? (long post)

[wantingtotrustagain]

Hi, everyone. I am having trust issues in my house and do not know if I can learn to trust DH again. We have been growing apart the last three years and our relationship was troubled even further by the unplanned birth of 20 mo DS. DH tells me all the time (lately) that I am not the same person he fell in love with. Since the birth of DS, we have had very few date nights; DH still goes out to sporting events, bars to meet up with friends, etc and I stay home with our DS b/c I am either too tired, can't get a sitter or DS going through phase that he did not want to be left with sitter.

Alas, two weeks ago while DH was checking cellphone message, I hear a female voice say "hi baby" before being cut off. I kept asking who called and left that message and he said he did not know b/c the message was cut off. The next night he admitted that it was from a girl who works with him, who is just a really good friend even though I have never heard any mention of her. I then find out a week later that DH had signed up to take a wine-tasting class with this other person. So, we are on the verge of splitsville again.

DH has lots of female friends, most of them that he befriended prior to me moving here 5 yrs ago when we were long-distance dating. Since moving here, I have met all of those friends and have never had a problem with him socializing with them b/c it is always a group activity.

This situation is completely different. I never knew anything about her until I heard her leave the message on his phone. He said they met at work and she told him that she was looking for a new circle of friends. He invited her to meet him and his friends at the St Patrick's Day parade; I was not going b/c of the baby. Since March, they have been meeting at baseball games and bars (with her friends at the bar). He said that she knew of me and the baby and had asked to meet us but that he said he did not want us to meet b/c he wanted to have a friend that he could talk with about our problems who could give unbiased advice; all of his other friends here are mutual friends of mine and apparently tell him they do not want to get involved when he tries to tell them about our relationship issues.
I spoke to this woman on the phone last week. She says that she did know of me and DS and that she is just really good friends with DH. She also explained that he told her he did not want us to meet so that he could use her as his sounding board; she did not push the issue b/c she trusted his judgement since he is a "dear friend" of hers. WTH!? What woman would be new friends with a family man without thinking that this would greatly affect his and DW's relationship?
I do believe that they were not having sex but I still feel that this was dating, even though both have said they do not see it that way. I also feel that if their friendship continues, that this confiding in one another and meeting eachother places will lead to something. Dh has basically only admitted that he was wrong for trying to "replace me" partly by using this other person to go out and have fun with. I do feel that I am partly to blame since I did seem to stop wanting to go out and do things most nights. But instead of asking/insisting that I do things with him, he just stopped asking me, i.e. he did not ask me if I wanted to go to the wine-tasting class...he assumed that I would say no.
I am trying to get past this; I spent this past week with DH trying to show him what a great time I can be to do things with (have had 3 babysitters this week when the norm is 3 babysitters in 6 months). I have made an effort to look more sexy this week with wonderful compliments from DH as a result. However, she called him on his cellphone today and my whole demeanor changed; I became bitchy towards him and was agreeing with him that we can't get past this if I bring her name up each day (I keep asking if he has talked/seen her). They have remained friends and still talk on the phone. I tell him that I do not know one woman who would think that it is appropriate for her DH to make a new female friend and keep it hush-hush.

How do I learn to trust again? I do not want to break up our family, especially since they haven't had sex. I want to fight to keep our family together and not throw our relationship away over this friendship he has with this other woman.

Thanks for reading.

[DebbieJ]

>How do I learn to trust again? I do not want to break up our
>family, especially since they haven't had sex.


Cheating is cheating and that is the bottom line. He is emotionally invovled with her, trying to hide you from her and her from you.

That is cheating in my book.

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[denna]

Let me say welcome to the boards first of all. I am sorry that you are going through a rough time in your marriage, and I wanted to say that I have been through such an experience it feels like now a lifetime ago. It was not w/ my DH but w/ someone just before him that I was w/ for 3 years and we lived together. He did exactly the same things you are describing! And I absolutely did not(!) like the fact that he had these female friends esp like the special one you are describing. IMO there are many forms of cheating, and if your DH is talking to someone else intimately about you and him it is not right! I know you want to save your marriage and your family, I have no advice on this, our relationship did not end up well. I hope someone here will be able to offer you better advice, and I wanted to say you are not alone! If you ever want to chat, just email me or PM.

(HUGS)

Denna

[mariza]

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this!!!
The first thing I would do is let DH know your feelings and let him know that if he wants an "unbiased sounding board" you need to get a counselor that can sit there with you both, not a woman that you do not know. It is not fair to you and your family. If it helps tell him that you will go to a counselor of his choosing, that way he feels like they are not on "your side" because you picked them.

I know it's not the same, but before DH and I got married we had trust issues and I actually broke up with him because of it. He begged me to make it work and I said that we needed couples counseling. I was always the first one to say if a couple needs counseling before they are married it's a sure sign NOT to get married. Well, I'm glad I didn't take my own advice! We saw the counselor together and individually and it really helped us grow.

As far as your DH going out without you, it's important to have your own friends and I think it's good to go out but you need to do it too. You also need to start a date night! After DD was born it's been tough on us too and now with DS, even though it's hard I've become more convinced that we need date night.
I happened to say something about Sunday's being my date night to a guy I work with and he said "oh you guys do date night too?" He told me that he realized after several years into his marriage (31 years now) things were not going well. He often went out with friends and had some beers and really enjoyed going out with his buddies. Then he had an "epiphany" and said, "if I enjoy going out with my buddies so much, why can't I enjoy going out with my wife?" He said since then they have made it a point to always have a date night once a week no matter what. He credits their date night with saving their marriage.
I'm not saying have date night and everything will be okay, but it's a place to start. Maybe he will rediscover the reasons he fell in love with you to begin with and find some new one's. After all, you are not the same woman, you are now the mother of his child and there is so much more added to your lives now.
There is obviously work to be done, and you will not trust him again overnight, but you can do it with love and faith in each other. I hope at least some of this made sense, I'm sure there are other Mama's out there with more advice. Good Luck!
Mariza
Mommy to my "Thing 1" DD 1/05
and "Thing 2" DS 9/06

[dules]

So sorry you are going through this. Are you and your DH willing to seek counseling? You'll likely find a lot of caring and support here and from friends but a neutral third party trained in this sort of thing will be very valuable to you both.

I wish you the best.


Mary

[wantingtotrustagain]

We did try counseling over the summer following a HUGE fight we had in June when I threatened to move out. The fight was over my intuition that he was cheating and he swore that he was not. Now I know that he was hanging out with this girl friend of his at the time which now validates those feelings of mistrust that I had in June. The counseling did not go so well b/c he withdrew from me emotionally after I threatened to move out in June.

[Drag0nflygirl]

Emotional affairs are just as damaging - if not more so - than sexual ones. Either way it's a betrayal of trust. Find another counselor and stick with it. It's always hard in the first few months. Don't make any decisions. Just tell him what you want and what you expect and then wait to see what he does. Every action he takes is more information for you. If he asks you on a date or blows off his friend, that's good info. If he's unapreciative or goes out with his friend, that's bad info (obviously). After a good amount of time the answer will be obvious - but stick with the counseling.

[DanielleGuidry]

You poor thing! If I could give you a HUG through the computer, I would!!!!

I can only tell you that in all my thirty years of life, I have only called a BOYFRIEND, HUSBAND or my baby girl "baby!"

Something isn't right! If they aren't having a physical affair YET, how do you thing they begin???

I would tell him that the association between him and her has to stop NOW! It is affecting your relationship and he needs to put your relationship first!!!

Plus, if he needs someone to confide in about your relationship, suggest a marriage counselor!!! That is the ultimate betrayl for him to confide in her about any problems you have or your relationship has!!! That would be a "deal breaker" in my book!!

I wish you the best but please realize that you CAN NOT change him. If he values your relationship, he will put your relationship first. If not, he has shown you what he prioritizes.....and it is not you and your family's relationship! Then the ball is in YOUR COURT.

[justlearning]

I haven't read the other responses yet, so my answer isn't being biased by them. My heart goes out to you--I can't imagine how hard this must be on you right now. For my dissertation (for my PhD), I studied extramarital affairs and I will say that it sounds like your husband is already involved in an emotional affair, especially considering his desire to keep it a secret from you, etc. In my study, I found that full-blown affairs (emotional and sexual) oftentimes began as friendships. The person considered the friendship to be innocent, especially because the main topic of conversation was marital problems. They felt like their friendship was innocent because it was motivated by a desire (or at least they tried to convince themselves of this) to get someone else's advice on ways that they could improve their own marriage. The conversation quickly turned, though, from soliciting marital advice to complaining about a bad marriage, getting emotional support from the other person, feeling attracted to the other person due to the positive emotions experienced with them, beginning to feel more in love with that person than with the spouse, and so forth. Thus, although I wish I could tell you otherwise, it sounds like your husband is currently involved in a very harmful relationship, regardless of whether or not they've had sex yet. And the worst part is that he is refusing to break it off so far.

Although I know your heart is in the right place in wanting to save your marriage, personally I wouldn't suggest going the route right now of trying to trust him again, trying to become more appealing to him while allowing his "affair" to continue, etc.

You can find some great advice, in my opinion, on dealing with infidelity and trying to rebuild your marriage on the following website: www.marriagebuilders.com. On that site, Dr. Steve Harley describes how you can implement Plan A and Plan B with a wayward spouse. He also has a book called "Surviving an Affair" that goes into greater depth.

Just one more point about emotional affairs--even if they never have sex, your marital relationship will still suffer significantly by your husband looking to have his emotional needs met by another woman. And now that they've become closer (doing things together, her calling his cell phone, him lying about it initially, etc.), there's absolutely NO WAY that they can continue to have any contact that would be acceptable to me if I were in your shoes. If that means he has to leave his job in order to avoid her (as many people in my study had to do), then that's the sacrifice you both might need to make in order to save your marriage. That's just my two cents, of course... Again, my heart goes out to you. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more about it.

[bcky2]

an emotional affair is an affair. the fact that he hid it means he feels like there is something to hide. you shouldnt have to dress sexy and such just for him to pay attention to you. i can look like i came crawling out of the gutter and my dh would still want to spend his time with me and would find me attractive. i am so sorry that you are going thru this. i think it is a bad thing for them to continue to be friends. he knows that it hurts you so why would he want to keep it up? even if they have not had sex is that really a big issue at this point? he is emotionally envolved with someone else and that to me is almost worse then just sex. i hope that the two of you can get into counseling and if not together then you can. huge (((hugs))) and i hope that no matter how things come out you are happy in the end.

btw: dont change you just to make him happy. im sure you are a wonderful and caring person just how you are :)

[Tracey]

No, you should not trust him because he has already violated his wedding vows to you whether he has had sex with her or not (and if he hasn't, he is thinking about it). Remember that part about forsaking all others...you come first. It is up to him, and all of us who are married, to protect our relationships by not getting involved with someone and lying to ourselves and saying it's "just friends". I think men and women do this because of the high you get when you become infatuated with someone and tell themseleves it's okay if there is no sex. The problem is all that flirting leads to emotional cheating and usually physical cheating. A work friend of mine had almost this exact scenario going on. She bought the "we're just friends" bit and he had an affair behind her back for two years. They eventually divorced and he married the other woman.

Now, all this is coming from someone whose best friend, other than my husband, is a man. We have been friends since I was a teenager and I adore his wife. I have NEVER called him babe, sweetie, or any other endearment like that. Real male-female friends don't do that. There's not that vibe to it. While he is handsome and I'm not a dog, there has never been any kind of romantic feel to our relationship. I love this guy like a brother and he loves me and our spouses know this and are fine with it. We are all friends together. There is a lot of history there though, and we have all known is other for over two decades. If my husband or his wife (we all knew each other before marriage) were freaked out, I'd kiss him on the cheek and tell him goodbye and hope that our spouses came around in the end. I'd still put my spouse first and he'd put his. Luckily, we both have strong marriages with partners that know better than to be threatened. A true friendship is nothing like the one your husband is trying to manipulate you into believing is going on with this woman.

[sdbc]

I agree. Sex or no sex, your husband was having an affair and is still doing so. He knows it, too. If he does not agree to cut off contact with this woman, then it is not a matter of "trust". It is a matter of knowing your husband is having an affair and then deciding whether it is worth it to you to stay with him with that knowledge. There is no "working on the marriage" while he is still involved with her.

Sue, mommy to Aurora (Rory) born 5/13/04

[karolyp]

I just wanted to extend lots of (((((hugs)))) to you as well mama. This is a difficult situation your facing and I agree with all the PPs that it sounds like your DH is having more of a friendship with this womand and is instead having emotional affair that has the potential of turning phyiscal - but regardless, the damage is already being done. I do not think that this relationship is appropriate, nor given the fact that it's hush hush, she's calling him baby, he's telling her about your marriage problems, and that they've signed up to do things together like the wine tasting class - these should all be huge warning signs to you.

Anyhow, I also thing that the PP's have given you some great advice and I also encourage you to try and seek couseling again. But in the meantime, can you ask him (and her) to end this relationship? IMO, you can't learn to trust until this is over and done with, kwim?

My heart does go out to you during this difficult time. ((((hugs))))

[mamatomax]

He is cheating (no matter how you want to look at it). He can't keep talking to her. Who's to stop them from having any sort of "activity", if he's been going behind your back all of these months? You have to stop blaming yourself. You are not to blame.

Jillie
One Lucky Mama

http://lilypie.com/pic/060628/Ic1s.jpg http://b2.lilypie.com/uCAGm4.png
http://www.geocities.com/kellysb/images/medals/awardbar2-gold.jpg weaned at 14 1/2 months old

[lizajane]

hmm...

first of all, i am really sorry you are dealing with such a challenging time in your relationship. and i am SO sorry that you are not getting your DH to understand your POV. he isn't listening to you when you tell him how you feel because, it seems to me, it isn't convienient for him. he wants to maintain his friendship with this woman instead of meeting your needs. that is NOT ok.

but to play devil's advocate...

the part i think is REALLY sketchy is that he wouldn't introduce her to you. she would give better advice if she knew you and saw you and your DH together. BUT as for the friendship... if he DID allow you to get to know her, i wouldn't be so sure that his friendship was wrong. i DO have a male best friend (who i haven't seen in quite a while because i have two kids and he works non-stop and lives an hour away.) and i DO call him sweetie. well, maybe not that exactly, but same idea. i kiss him hello/goodbye and give him monster hugs. IN FRONT OF DH. i did have an intimate relationship with him before i knew DH (in college, so a million years ago.) but it was ALWAYS about the friendship- not about the intimacy- with us. when i talked about him to DH before they met, DH was a little concerned. he wasn't sure that he would be comfortable with my being such close friends with him. i assured him that after they met, he would be crazy about my friend and would "get it." and i was right. he LOVED him. DH thought he was a great guy, loved talking to him, and was happy for me to have such a wonderful friend. last time i saw him (a million years ago, as i said, due to kiddos) we had dinner and went bar hopping. DH even said i had a "date" with my friend. it was FINE with DH. he knew exactly what i was doing. he knew that i could be friends with this guy and still love him best of all. he knew that i would NEVER do anything that would betray DH. he is number one. all the time. and the ONLY one, all the time.

so while the friendship itself doesn't really worry me, the "mine, mine, mine" attitude about the friend really freaks me out. i think the choice COULD be (if it were me) either you ALL spend time together, or she is OUT of the picture. if he is willing to have a drink with her at your house while you are home, then i might be willing to hear him out. if he refuses to "share" this friend with you... then don't walk, RUN to couseling. in my humble opinion.

[punkrockmama]

Well, I have to agree with the others who called it cheating. Your husband is having an affair. And honestly, I don't think you sexin' it up and playing the perfect wifey is what your situation needs.

He needs to break-up with her (and I call it breaking up because you don't need to have sex to have an intimate, important, romantic relationship. how many of us started out as best friends with our boyfriends/dhs?). And you guys need to see someone together as a couple. That is, if that is what you really want. I mean, yes it's good to try and work it out, but I really don't think that just because you have kids or have been together an X number of years that you HAVE to. Did that come out right? I mean that I think too many people stay in marriages out of a sense of obligation than real desire to be with that other person and that just makes for a really sad home. But I've never been in that situation and what do I know so I think I'll shut up now,lol.

But think deep and hard about it. And if your husband is willing to stop cheating (and you're willing to be with someone who did that) and go to therapy with you then great. Good luck to you and big hugs. I am sorry you're going thru this heartbreaking time.

[maestramommy]

So sorry to hear you have to go through this! Just wanted to give you big hugs and say you've gotten a lot of great feedback and advice already. No experience, but from what I've heard, turning to someone of of the opposite sex for emotional support and "marital advice" is never recommended because of the all the complications that can follow.

Again, so sorry and I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Hope you find a solution that keeps your family together (really together).

[megs4413]

just wanted to give you big hugs...and say i'm so sorry you're going through this. It really must be just the worst thing in the world for you....and I hope you two can figure it out. BIG BIG BIG hugs!

[Fairy]

Hey there. I'm very sorry you're going thru this. I haven't read the other replies yet, but here are my thoughts:

1. All my life I've had boy friends (friends who were boys, not boyfriends) as well as girl friends. I have never understood why some people really believe that if a man has a female friend independent of his significant other, it cannot possibly be platonic all the way down to his emotional core. I disagree with that wholeheartedly. I call alot of my friends "honey." However, I can promise you, that I've never called any male friend "Hey Baby." There is a line, and for me, that is it. WARNING FLAG.

2. My oldest male friends wife doesn't like me. She's terribly jealous for reasons I can't fathom, cuz not only am I insanely in love with my husband, but he and I ain't never been nuthin', know what I'm sayin'? Ok, so in her eyes, it's ok for him to talk to his male friends about his marriage, but not ok for him to talk about it with me. We've been friends since we were children. I don't like the wife any more than she likes me, but we tolerate each other. However. His marriage has to come way the hell above his friendship with me, and if he didn't agree (which he does), then *I*, who has no romantic interest in him, definitely do. So, your husband not wanting you and his friend to meet? And her going along with this? If my friend said, "let's have lunch, but don't tell "Jane," I'd be like, "what, now?" So, should this chick. WARNING FLAG.

3. Emotional affairs are all the rage right now. I read an article inspired (I think) by "When Harry Met Sally" and saying that if you have a friend of the opposite gender, it really is like cheating. Well, hello?! I have straight male friends, and I may have an emotional attachment to them cuz they're my friends and I care about them. I want them to be happy, I want them to find love or have what they want in their jobs or lives or whatever. But i don't wanna BE with them any more than I wanna BE with my girlfriends. That said, if your husband is baring his soul to this chick and not baring it to you, then that's not part of the deal. WARNING FLAG.

4. You sound terribly scared and worried and altogether not in a good place. I am so sorry. I know that sometimes, you want to hear things that point to "it's gonna be all better." I'm not sure if that's what you're getting, and you're just one side of the story, but it's a side that sounds pretty straight-forward. Even if your husband won't go to counseling, you might want to consider therapy for yourself. You've got kids, so you need to be in the best emotional place you can given your circumstances, and sometimes, even your very best friends (of whatever gender!) aren't going to be enough.

5. If you can't afford therapy for whatever reason, or if you are not in a position to be able to go or just plain don't want to, then I have some suggestions that may seem loopy, but hey, what can they harm, right? There is only hope from here, isn't there? So, try these, because they're cheap and the payback, is real, even if it's in small amounts.

-----> Get a diary. Plain lined pages. Write in it whenever you have something you need to say. Maybe you need to say it to your husband, maybe you need to say it to your kids, maybe you need to say it to the moon, but if you say it to yourself in your diary, the theraputic value is going to be significant. It's cleansing. Get that darkness and unhappiness out of you. Write it down.

-----> Drink some herbal tea. Or Chinese green tea. The worst that can happen is nothing. The best that can happen is you'll relax enough to find a center.

-----> Touch your kids' hair. Sounds silly, I know. I promise you, it'll make you feel better instantly.

[JoyNChrist]

I didn't read all the responses, so it's very possible that what I'm about to say has already been said by someone else. But here's my two cents...

My best friend is a guy named Ronnie. We've been buddies since we were both 12, and we've been through a LOT together. He was there when my parents divorced, when my aunt was killed in a car wreck, when I broke off my first engagement, etc. We've talked about everything you could possibly think of, and I do mean everything. Obviously, I care about him a lot - he probably knows more about me than anybody else in the world, because he's shared such a huge part of my life. Yeah, he's straight, and I do think he's attractive, and we even discussed dating a few times in high school. But the friendship was too precious to us to risk losing if a relationship didn't work out, so we never pursued it. And we've remained friends to this day.

But when I met Keith and we decided to get married, some things about my friendship with Ronnie had to change. And surprisingly, HE was the one who brought it up first. While we were talking on the phone one night a few months before my wedding, he said something like this - "Stacy, you know things are going to have to be different between us when you and Keith get married. You know I love you and I want to maintain our friendship. But I don't ever want to come between the two of you because you feel like you can be more open with me than you can with him. If something important is going on in your life, you HAVE to discuss it with him first. And I don't ever want to talk about any problems the two of you are having. I like Keith and have a ton of respect for him, and I wouldn't feel comfortable with you sharing your marital issues with me. It's none of my business. What goes on in your marriage is between you and your husband, and that's where it needs to stay."

And you know what? That was really hard for me at first. This was the guy I'd talked to almost every day since I was twelve years old. I'd discussed every decision with him, every feeling, every idea. As much as I love, respect, and enjoy my husband, it took a while before the impulse to call Ronnie the minute I had anything to talk about went away. But for the sake of a healthy marriage, it had to.

Ronnie and I are still great friends. He gave a speech at our wedding, and we talk on the phone about once a week. We still see each other frequently whenever one of us is in town. He will be our baby's godfather. And while he and Keith are friendly toward one another, they've never become good buddies (just because their personalities are different), and that's okay with Keith. He doesn't mind that this other guy is "my" friend. But there are definite boundaries there, which allow us to maintain a healthy friendship that everyone is comfortable with.

Your husband doesn't seem to have any of these types of boundaries in his relationship with this woman, and that isn't good for him, her, or you. And it seems that they're already at a point in the relationship where it's too late to step back and set these boundaries. In my opinion, he has to end his friendship/relationship/whatever with her, or your marriage will not be able to thrive. And if he's not willing to do that, then you need to seriously consider how you're going to deal with it. I know that I couldn't remain in a marriage where my husband was having his emotional needs met by another woman.

My heart goes out to you - this is such a difficult situation.

[MartiesMom2B]

I say trust your gut. Your husband should not be confiding your marital problems with another woman.

One of my friends divorced her husband after he was forced to admit that he was cheating on her. It was humiliating for her, and he denied and denied the affair, she was just a friend that he confided in that he never slept with.

-Sonia
Mommy to Martie
& Li'l Girl Bunny to come Feb. 2007
http://bd.lilypie.com/Kchhm4/.png (http://lilypie.com)

[wantingtotrustagain]

He said to both of us (separately) that he did not want us to meet b/c, once she got to know me, she would also say that she would not want to get involved, be in the middle, etc, just as our mutual friends tell him.
Thanks

[elliput]

A marriage not built on trust and respect is a house of cards and will come tumbling down around your ears no matter how much you try to shore it up.

Take away all the details - do you have trust and respect in your marriage? If so, then keep it up and watch your relationship grow. If not, you need to either figure out how to get trust and respect into the marriage, or get out of the marriage. A harse reality of life is that some things are just not meant to be.

[Fairy]

This kind of response is why you're so valuable and so wonderful to have around, Erica.

[KBecks]

Short version:

1. (((Hugs))) How stressful for you.
2. Talk to your DH about marriage counseling together. Get a sitter for your marriage counseling nights.

3. Work with the counselor about boundaries for co-worker girlfriend.
(I would think he should change jobs and not see her again, but I'm not a pro, and that's advice for if they had an affair.)

4. Pray for guidance, if you are spiritual.


I would wonder if they have been sleeping together. I also question about your husband going out at night with the guy friends and leaving you at home to take care of baby. That's not a family man in my book.

However, if your DH can get his priorities straight, then you should consider trusting him. IMO you really need a counselor for help sorting this out.

If he will not agree to counseling, I think you have a fundamental problem and I would consider splitting, as much as I hate to suggest anything like that.

Good luck,
Karen

[KBecks]

That's an excuse. Are you going to buy it? It sounds good, but he freaking signed up for wine tasting classes with her.... sorry, but signing up for wine classes is DATING.

I'm sorry if that hurts, but it's what I see. You absolutely need marriage counseling, boundaries, and most likely a termination of this "friendship" for your marriage to survive, IMO.

[lizajane]

ditto KBecks. and frankly, if there is something to "get in the middle of" then something is wrong anyway, friend or no friend. my DH talks to his best friend about our marriage all the time. the best friend is a big fan of mine (and i am a big fan of his, of course!) and he has no problem being a listener and advice-giver to my DH. he is 10 years older than we are and he has good advice. this gal has NO advice. she isn't even married!!!!!!!! what on EARTH is she going to tell him about how to have a good marriage??? (and if she is married, she clearly doesn't have a good marriage or she would go to wine tasting with HER dh.)

he MUST go to couseling with you "or else." whatever that is.

but i must say- i would ask him nicely to go to couseling first, instead of attacking him and trying to scare him into it.

ETA: and don't forget, your kiddo is better off with two separate HAPPY parents then one miserable couple of parents.

[cmdunn1972]

As far as the question of whether he was cheating or not, the answer probably boils down to how each of you defines "cheating". It sounds like he defines it as an encounter involving sex. Ergo, if there's no sex, there's no cheating. It sounds like you include emotional affairs as cheating, even if there's no sex.

You two need to sit down with each other and work this out, probably with the aid of a marital counselor. There are a couple of points that this boils down to:

1) Discover what initially attracted you two to each other. Leave the kiddos with a sitter and go on a date to rediscover each other.

2) He needs to learn how to come to you with a problem without making you defensive, and you need to learn how to listen without getting grouchy. Problems aren't just going to go away if you two don't try to solve them as a team. The other half of that is learning to express your disappointment without sounding whiny/nagging/bitchy. Say simply, "I feel ___ when you ___ ." Give him a chance to respond.

While it makes both of you more interesting people for each other when you do some things seperately, you need to balance that with spending more time together with just each other. Nights out with "the boys" (for him) or "the girls" (for you) are fine as long as it's not to the exclusion of time with each other.

HTH!

[justlearning]

One more thing I just thought of to add...

I know that this most likely would make things worse between you and your DH, but I would seriously recommend insisting on using protection if you do have any sex with your DH. The reason is that is very possible that he has been having a sexual affair--even though he says otherwise--and thus puts you at risk for contracting STDs or even HIV. My husband's a doctor and has had to break this very unfortunate news to some women who have only had sex with their husbands--the news then led their husbands to fess up that they had in fact been having an affair, etc.

Just something to think about...