Any way to modify the dreidel game for a 4 yr old?

[JustMe]

Dd is getting really excited about Chanukah, and she knows that dreidels are a part of it, although she doesn't know exactly what a dreidel is (We have the Blues Clues Chanukah book and I have been singing the dreidel song for her). I have some dreidels, including a large one that she should be able to spin, but I know the whole thing about putting coins in or out or taking half the pot, etc, would be way over her head. We could just use it like a spinning top, but I;'m wondering if anyone who knows about the dreidel game has any ideas about how I could modify it for an almost 4 yr old.

Thanks!
Robyn
single mommy to an almost 4 yr old from Guatemala

[Piglet]

We have played dreidel since DS1 was pretty little. We just help him out a lot. He spins and we say 'oh it landed on gimmel - that means you win' or 'oops, its a shin - you have to put two coins in'. If it lands on hay, we usually do the math for him - he just waits for me to count it and put half in his pile. Also, we stick to small numbers so that it doesn't drag on too long.

[buddyleebaby]

We always played dreidel in my pre-k class with no problem. We just had to sometimes remind them what each side meant. And we used mimi oreos for the pot.

[ShanaMama]

I've seen lots of ppl play with candy or something else in the pot that's not coins. You can try explaining it to him, or just spin it for the fun. Do you know how to spin one upside down? (On the stick) That always gets great reactions :)

[sdbc]

I've been playing with DD who is 2.5. I just have to keep reminding her which letter means what. We've been playing with chocolate Chanukah gelt, but she knows we're not going to eat any until Chanukah (tomorrow)!

Sue, mommy to Aurora (Rory) born 5/13/04

[dules]

I've been playing with DD. We also got a book called Spin the Dreidel that has a little dreidel fixed to the binding. It's a board book that explains each letter and what it means (as far as rules). After reading it once DD started recognizing and naming the letters, though she needs reminding.

ETA I got the book at B&N but they have it at bookcloseouts:
http://www.bookcloseouts.com/default.asp?Nsl=638&Ix=17&R=0689864302B&Rt=19

I figure I'll let her cast it like a die. :P

We're using gelt, not Kosher, I got it at Whole Foods.


Mary

[jamsmu]

I taught my second graders a "poem" to remember how to play:

Hay sounds like half, so take half the pile
Nun, do nothing, but sit with a smile!
Got a gimmel? Gimme, Gimme I want them all
I love this game, we're having a ball!
Awww Shucks, its a Shin
Put them all in the middle
But it won't be too long
I'll spin again in a little.


In school we played with m&ms and skittles. We'll probably play with yogurt covered raisens tomorrow night.

[JustMe]

Thanks for the tips, everyone!

Robyn

[alexsmommy]

Duh - although I am Christian, I work in an Orthodox Jewish community. I should have gotten one when I worked Monday, and I won't have time this coming Monday. I want DS to learn about different cultures/religions and would love to play the dreidel game with him when we discuss Chanukah tonight. Any suggestions for secular stores that may have one? TIA
Alaina
Alex Feb '03

[Roleysmom]

Alaina, check out Bed, Bath and Beyond, but call first. The Clybourn one had nothing yesterday, they had sold out. I've Been to a Marvelous Party on Clybourn in the Treasure Island mall had tons of different dreidels and other things yesterday. We bought 25 but didn't sell them out!

[ShanaMama]

I was in Walmart yesterday & saw one whole rectangular "rounder" (don't know what they call those islands, I just know in the clothing stores they call them rounders) stocked with various Chanuka items.
Most large grocery stores like Shoprite, etc. have a small selection of traditional items for each religion/ holiday.

[ShanaMama]

Robyn, I'm glad the above tips helped you some. I was just thinking that a 4 year old would probably be fascinated with the story of how dreidels came to be associated with Chanukah. Are you familiar with the history of dreidel?
If you want some background, I'll be happy to post or send it to you in PM. I'm not always sure of the proper ettiquete (sp?) when posting about religious things in a public forum. I'd never want to offend anyone by pushing my religious beliefs on them, but I'd be happy to share if someone expresses an interest.

[alexsmommy]

Thanks. You'd think working in West Rogers Park I would have thought to take care of this before today...
Alaina
Alex Feb '03

[buddyleebaby]

Well, I'd like to know, so please share.
And FTR, I for one don't believe that talking about the history of frediels would be "pushing" your religious beliefs, unless you said "this is what I believe and this is what you should believe because everything else is wrong and I will argue about it until you agree with me", which I highly doubt you would do. ; )

[Twin Mom]

Party City has lots of dreidels.

[JustMe]

Happy Chanukah everyone!

I would love info about the history of dreidels. I knew it at one point, but could definitely use a reminder before explaining to dd. I am pretty sure it would not be against any rules to post it here, especially in this type of thread, but if you prefer to pm me that is fine too.

Yes, I second the Bed, Bath, and Beyond store for dreidels and any other Chanukah supplies!

Dd has asked to play dreidel (we have a Chanukah cd) and she is getting a kick out of just (trying) to spin them so far.

Robyn
single mommy to an almost 4 yr old from Guatemala

[SnuggleBuggles]

According to Judiasm.about.com this is the answer:

"Q. What is the source of the dreidel?
From Lisa Katz,
Your Guide to Judaism.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
A. A dreidel (also spelled dreidl or draydel) is a four sided spinning top with a different Hebrew letter on each side. The game of dreidel is traditionally played during the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah.

The Ancient Connection

Some people maintain that the dreidel game goes back to the time of the Greek-Syrians, and thus is integrally connected to the Hanukkah holiday. Since the Greek-Syrians prohibited the Jews from studying Torah, the Jews needed a way to hide their Torah learning. They used the dreidel as a decoy. When they saw the Greek-Syrians coming, the Jews would hide their books, take out their dreidels, and trick the Syrians into thinking they were just playing a game.

The European Connection

While the above story is a wonderful way to link the holiday's history to its modern celebration, the true source of the game is probably European.


In Europe, a gambling game with a spinning top has been played for centuries by various people in various languages. In England and Ireland, the game of totum or teetotum, first mentioned in approximately 1500, was especially popular at Christmastime. The Germans also liked to play a gambling game with a spinning top.

It is believed that the Jewish game of dreidel is a Judaicized version of the German gambling game. The Yiddish word dreidel derived from the German word drehen, which means "to spin."

The letters on the faces of the gambling toy, which were mnemonic for the rules of the game, varied in each nation. The letters on the English spinning top were: T for Take, H for Half, P for Put, N for None. In the German game, the letters were: N for Nichts (nothing), G for Ganz (all), H for Halb (half), S for Stell (put). The Hebrew letters on the dreidel seem to have come directly from the German gambling toy: Nun for Nichts (nothing), Gimel for Ganz (all), Hay for Halb (half), Shin for Stell (put).

In an effort to link the game to the celebration of Hanukkah, the Hebrew letters nun, gimel, hay and shin were said to stand for the phrase Nes Gadol Haya Sham, which means "a great miracle happened there."

The Israeli Connection

With the birth of Israel and the revival of the Hebrew language, Israelis called the dreidel a sivivon. Sivivon comes from the Hebrew word sovev which means "to turn."

Furthermore, Israelis changed the letter shin on the dreidel to the letter pay. Thus, the letters nun, gimel, hay and pay would stand for the phrase Nes Gadol Haya Po, which means "a great miracle happened here.""
http://judaism.about.com/od/chanukah/f/dreidel.htm

HTH,
Beth

[emmiem]

My youngest has been able to play dreidel without motification since she was 2. Why don't you try it that way first?
Michele

[ShanaMama]

As an intro, a brief synopsis of the Chanuka story, from www.Aish.com:

The Hebrew word Chanukah means "dedication." In the 2nd century BCE, during the time of the Second Holy Temple, the Syrian-Greek regime of Antiochus sought to pull Jews away from Judaism, with the hopes of assimilating them into Greek culture. Antiochus outlawed Jewish observance -- including circumcision, Shabbat, and Torah study -- under penalty of death. As well, many Jews -- called Hellenists -- began to assimilate into Greek culture, taking on Greek names and marrying non-Jews. This began to decay the foundation of Jewish life and practice.
When the Greeks challenged the Jews to sacrifice a pig to a Greek god, a few courageous Jews took to the hills of Judea in open revolt against this threat to Jewish life. Led by Matitiyahu, and later his son Judah the Maccabee, this small band of pious Jews led guerrilla warfare against the Syrian-Greek army.
Antiochus sent thousands of well-armed troops to crush the rebellion, but after three years the Maccabees beat incredible odds and miraculously succeeded in driving the foreigners from their land.
Jewish fighters entered Jerusalem and found the Holy Temple in shambles and desecrated with idols. The Maccabees cleansed the Temple and re-dedicated it on the 25th of Kislev. When it came time to re-light the Menorah, they searched the entire Temple, but found only one jar of pure oil bearing the seal of the High Priest. The group of believers lit the Menorah anyway and were rewarded with a miracle: That small jar of oil burned for eight days, until a new supply of oil could be brought.
From then on, Jews have observed a holiday for eight days, in honor of this historic victory and the miracle of the oil. To publicize the Chanukah miracle, Jews add the special Hallel praises to the Shacharit service, and light a menorah during the eight nights of Chanukah.

And now, my addition & the dreidel story:

During the time that the fundamentals of Jewish religion were outlawed, many Jews responded by rebelling against the ruling power, the Syrian-Greeks, and adhering to the tennets of their religion. Torah study was outlawed, & anyone found teaching Torah to children was punished by death.
The children actively participated in the fight to uphold their religion, hiding in mountain caves to study with their teachers. The group would post a watchman, & when Syrian-Greek soldiers were spotted, the children would hide their books & take out dreidels, claiming they were playing the entire time.

Contrary to the misconception that Chanuka is Judaism's version of Chistmas, Chanuka is a holiday celebrating religious freedom & the miracles G-d performed, including the victory of the "weak against the mighty, the few against the many." (From songs & prayers recited on Chanuka).
Hope that was helpful, & Happy Chanuka to all.

ETA: Just wanted to clarify that the comment about Chanuka not being Judaism's version of Christmas was relating to the consumerism, gift- giving & decorating. Not refering to the religious aspect at all & didn't mean to offend any Christians. Hope I didn't.

[ShanaMama]

We actually played tonight for the first time, & my 18 mo had a blast trying to grab the spinning dreidel. After a few turns watching us spin, she was trying to do it herself.

[ShanaMama]

As an Orthodox Jew who actually believes in the Chanuka story & miracles that occured (see my above post) I thought I'd clarify & reconcile these options.
The "ancient connection", or what we believe to be actual history, is how dreidel came to be associated with Chanuka, as an integral part of the Chanuka miracle. Various customs were instituted to comemorate (sp?) the miracles, one being the menorah, which is light nightly for the duration of Chanuka (8 days). Another being dreidel, the 4 sided top, which has Hebrew letters on each side. They are Nun, Gimmel, Hay & Shin, & represent the sentence 'Nes Gadol Hayah Sham' which literally means 'a great miracle happened there.'
As your info states in the "Israeli Connection", the letters on dreidels in Israel differ by one letter. They are Nun, Gimmel, Hay, Pay, which stand for Nes Gadol Haya Poh, meaning 'a great miracle happened here', because the Chanuka story occured in the land of Israel. This change was not made in 1948, when Israel became a state. For all the generations since the Chanuka story, dreidels in Israel were made with different letters than the rest of the world.

As for the "European Connection", I have no idea where that comes from, but I am not an expert on European traditional games, & therefore, cannot validate or invalidate that theory. I just wanted to clarify how we actually view these facts as relevant on a historical basis, not just as some archaic fable or the like.

Thanks for the info, though. I'm sure many ppl found it interesting.