UGH - NEW UPDATE on the interview ... NIP ? need some quick advice re job interview and baby

[JenaW]

GRRRR. I had a long post typed and lost it. The gist - DH's &^%$#@@%*& boss will not let him leave until EVERYTHING is done, and they of course are having a record HUGE day. we had to cancel dinner, and are basically driving up tonight for the interview and coming right home afterwards tomorrow. DH normally has thurs off and we were hoping to have fri so we could stay the weekend with family, but the boss wants DH back Fri to work. What really sucks is that the boss isn't even on service this week, and the attending that is already gave DH permission to leave today and take Friday off. However, the "boss" told DH dinner was "a stupid waste of time" and he should call the hospital in NY right now and demand they fly DH up tomorrow morning and back tomorrow night. What a &^%$#@! This is a guy who is on his 2nd or 3rd marriage adn thinks the service should come first before ANYTHING else. his kids from his first marriage don't even acknowledge his existence, so taht gives you an idea of how he is. STUPID *&^%$$&! Have I mentioned what I think of this guy?? As much as we want to stay in Pittsburgh, I am liking this guy less and less, and DO NOT want DH working for him any longer than necesasry. Even if DH were to go to another health system in Pitt, this guy's tentacles stretch far. I would love to tell him off right now (and on several other occasions), but my husband DOES need to find a job somewhere. This better not be an omen of what is to come.


J
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Thanks all for your advice. The secretary emailed me back and said it was perfectly fine to bring Lexi with us. So now the big question - can I NIP (i.e. at the table) or should I excuse myself and go to the restroom? I am NOT one to be shy about whipping the girls out and nursing. I have fed my babies while walking through Home Depot, during Mass at Church, in other restaurants, etc. BUT, at my husband's interview dinner with the chair and chief of the department??? That, I am not so sure about.

Jera
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We are travelling to upsate NY tomorrow so DH can interview for an attending position. The interview will be Thursday, Krystof and I are having dinner with the dept chair, the dept cheif and his wife Wednesday eve. The email said, "Dr. R, Dr. L and his wife would like to host you and your wife for dinner at 7:30pm, place TBD." Initially I was not planning on attending...we are staying with my Aunt and Uncle, and with the four kids it was just to crazy to find childcare. However, my mom is coming up to stay at my Aunt's to help watch the kids. They think I should leave all four of them, but Lexi has never taken a bottle, and often nurses more frequently in the evenings (occas every 1-2 hours). I am pumping so I can give some EBM to Natalie. Do I just leave Lexi with my mom, nurse her immediately before I leave, and hope she will take the bottle if she gets hungry enough? SHe is only 2 months old, and I absolutely hate the thought of her crying because I am not there to nurse her. I have never been away from her yet. As of this am I still do not know where we are eating. If it were at one of their homes, I would have no issue bringing her. However, given the (very very expensive)hotel where they offered to put us up, I am guessing the restaurant would be like that too. Do you think it would be appropriate to ask to bring Lexi? Should I email the secretary (who has been corresponding with us) and check with her? Or should I just politely decline in an email to her, explaining that I have anursing newborn. I am not sure how to go about this? What would you do? DH doesn't care (he is leaving it up to me of course) but wants to me to let them know what I have decided as soon as I can.

Jera
Mom to Carter ~ 05.13.03
Madigan ~ 09.28.04
Natalie ~ 09.17.05 (born at 25 weeks!!)
Alexa ~ 11.03.06

[newnana]

Just my opinion, but because it didn't say "and children" or "and family" I would not bring DD without checking first. I would feel the same way!
Michelle

[elephantmeg]

Yikes! I'm not sure what I would do... I don't think it would be appropriate to take Lexi but I understand your reservations about leaving her too. Can you try to give her a bottle today (soon) and see if she'll take one? I think I would make a decision based on that... Good luck with the job interview, hope everything turns out better for ya'll!

[lmintzer]

I wouldn't just bring her without mentioning it, but I don't think it would be a problem for someone to talk to the secretary about your situation.

I am married to a physician and have had to do things like this too. There is no way I would leave my newborn just to make things look just right. But I do think a correspondence would be appropriate.

Your dh could be the one to contact the secretary. It's not that you don't have a voice, but he's the one who the direct correspondent in this case. He could just simply say, "My wife is nursing a newborn--do you think they would prefer if she declined or came with the baby?" Really those are the only two reaonsable choices.

Also, do you have a preference? Would you feel comfortable there with Lexie? My newborns have never been particularly easy, and I don't know if I would feel up to a fancy restaurant with one, but everyone is different. My guess is that this would be no big deal for you--an experienced mommy of 4. But really, if your preference is to stay back, you have a reasonable excuse.

Hope that helps.

ETA: One other thought--this is YOUR and your dh's chance to evaluate how family-friendly the department is. How they respond to this is a good test. And if you do go to dinner, pay close attention to any comments the chair makes to you about your family or about families in general. Take it from someone who's been there on both sides--a family-friendly chair and department make a HUGE difference in your family's quality of life. We've been on both sides.

[JenaW]

you make a very good point about how family friendly the dept it! Obviously that is a big issue for us. I was surprised that the chair is not bringing his wife, only the chief's was mentioned. Not sure if the chair doesn't have one, or if they too have kids at home. I am not worried about Alexa "behaving." Most likely, if I keep her in the car seat, she will sleep the entire time anyways. We took all four kids and DH's SIL out to dinner on Thurs eve, and it was fine. Lexie slept the entire time, and my other kids are (USUALLY) well-behaved in public.

I just found out that DH sent an email to the chair directly and CC'd his secretary -

Dr R,

We are looking forward to coming up to visit tomorrow. I just wanted to let you know that with respect to dinner on Wednesday, we will have to unfortunately bring one, if not two of our infants. I am not sure what restaurants you have in mind, but it may be easier to choose a more informal setting like something akin to the Macaroni Grill. I hope this is not too much of an imposition. Please let us know your thoughts.

-K


YIKES!!! I literally spit out my OJ when I read it. Sometimes, for being a physician, he is not very intelligent! I emailed the secretary back myself (only her)

Ms. B~
I know my husband emailed you already about dinner tomorrow evening. We have a newborn who is exclusively breastfed (I have not had much luck with her taking a bottle yet). We also have a former 25 week preemie who is now 16 months and still on oxygen. The 16 month old (and our older two children) can stay with my parents, but I am not sure I can leave the newborn. If the setting the doctors had in mind is not appropriate for a newborn, I can stay home and K can attend alone. Please let me know what you think is best.

~J



I was shocked to see that DH emailed the chair. I know they are on a first name basis, and he has made no mistake about the fact that they are desperate to fill the position, really want K for it, and will do whatever it takes to get us up there, including looking for a position for me if I want to go back to work. I still think it was a bit tactless how DH did it, but it's down now.

THanks for your advice! We'll see how it all turns out

J

[lmintzer]

Yikes. That's not exactly how I would have worded it either. It's not "unfornuate" that you have children you have to take care of. It's your life. But you know this (even if your dh doesn't know how to word it).

Let them chase you guys! It's so hard (with first attending job) to not feel like one should be grateful, etc. But definitely keep in mind that he is the one being recruited.

I guess now it's time to sit back and see what happens. Despite the awkward message, it might work out okay.

[lmintzer]

Yikes. That's not exactly how I would have worded it either. It's not "unfornuate" that you have children you have to take care of. It's your life. But you know this (even if your dh doesn't know how to word it).

Let them chase you guys! It's so hard (with first attending job) to not feel like one should be grateful, etc. But definitely keep in mind that he is the one being recruited.

I guess now it's time to sit back and see what happens. Despite the awkward message, it might work out okay.

[npace19147]

Nice damage control, Jera. If I were you I'd be upset at DH using the word "unfortunately"!!

Let us know what happens!

[maestramommy]

No advice at all Jera, just wanted to send some quick ((Hugs)) and good luck to your Dh on the interview!

[LD92599]

No advice but just good luck to your DH!

Laura
Mom to Will

http://b4.lilypie.com/BhyBm5.png

[tarabenet]

ETA: oops! Meant to start with "Good luck with the whole interview"!


Good for you for just plain asking! As for NIP, I think it is usually wiser to err on the conservative side in a job interview situation. Problem with that answer is that I think it is awful to confine a mom to a restroom to feed a baby -- no adult would eat in there! At the very least, I'd say go with some kind of cover-up for this particular event. Once DH has the job, then you can make sure these people are properly educated about the importance and naturalness of nursing.

No BTDt n the nursing, as you all know. But the interviewing/hiring area, well....

[JenaW]

yeah, you are probably right. As much as I am not one to shy away from NIP, especially if the alternative is the bathroom, AND I would like to think that "educated professionals" should be comfortable with breastfeeding, it IS an interview for DH, and it IS several older men, so...


Jera
Mom to Carter ~ 05.13.03
Madigan ~ 09.28.04
Natalie ~ 09.17.05 (born at 25 weeks!!)
Alexa ~ 11.03.06

[Marisa6826]

First, congrats on the interview!!

Second, now that it's a given that you're bringing Lexi, I would 'top her off' as late as you can before the dinner itself. She may just be lulled to sleep with the ambient sound of a restaurant.

However, if she wakes, I would excuse myself to the lounge (if they're putting you up at a spendy hotel, it will likely be a spendy restaurant that has a lounge in addition to the actual toilet area). Should the other dinner guests say it's OK to nurse her at the table, then I would just do that. Bring a little blanket or shawl just in case (till you have her situated and latched) and carry on your conversation.

You might want to have the secretary mention when she makes the reservations that there will be a newborn in the party and that it might be better to seat the group in a somewhat out of the way area of the restaurant.

Good luck and keep us posted!!

-m

Jera, is it going to be just you and your DH, the chair and the chief, or are they bringing their wives with? If the wives are in attendance, I'd be more inclined to try and NIP. If it's just the chair and chief, I think I'd excuse myself.

[sarahsthreads]

Well, if it is a very fancy restaurant, the restroom might at least have a lounge area. That's such a tough situation. Good luck, both to you and your DH!

Sarah :)

[npace19147]

I would definitely err on the conservative side here. Maybe when you get there you can scope out a place to nurse that's not the bathroom. GL!

[lmintzer]

Hi Jera. Glad it worked out so that you can bring Lexi. I really think anyone who would have said DON'T bring her wouldn't be a good one to work for. So that's a good first sign.

I am as pro-BF as anyone (nursed my kids 15 months and 23 months, respectively). So please don't get me wrong here. I believe it's a woman's God-given right to breastfeed, whether in private or in public. But since this is a job interview situation, I would be a little more conservative. It might be a bunch of older men who might be uncomfortable. Now, you could say, "who the hell cares" (and normally I would), but since you guys are making a first impression, I would be a little more careful.

Now I certainly don't think you have to take her into the bathroom. Unless the bathroom has a lounge area (a la Nordstrom, which is okay for many). I would just take her somewhere else in the restaurant--up front to the waiting area, to a little table in the bar area if no one is smoking). To the lobby if you are at a restaurant in a hotel. I think you probably will be able to find somewhere. If you are anxious about finding somewhere (and this would be understandable), find out where you will be going, call, and ask what the options are.

Let us know what happens.

And remember (I'm sounding like a broken record)--they are recruiting you guys! You come as a package and all of you matter. It is not unheard of for chairs to help spouses find jobs in the area, etc. as well. They need you to be happy if they want to keep your husband.

[JenaW]

they definitely want DH already, and they have offered to create a GYN ONC position for me (although I would much rather OB, and even regular GYN than GYN oncology). Unfortunately, this is really our "fall back" job, unless they come up with a great offer. When we were in the area five years ago, the starting salary here in Pittsburgh would be higher than what he would top out at in 5 years in Rochester. HOPEFULLY things have improved. I would make about 50% more in NY than in PA, but my salary is no where near DH's, even if I worked full time which I have no intention of doing until all the kids are in school full time.

But thanks for the reminder! I wish the other jobs he has interviewed at (here in Pittsburgh so far) would be more willing to help find me something.

J

[JenaW]

"I would 'top her off' as late as you can before the dinner itself. She may just be lulled to sleep with the ambient sound of a restaurant"

That is my plan....now just keep fingers/toes crossed that it works out that way. It usually does, but wiht our luck, who knows!

They offered a spendy hotel, but we are staying with family. I got the name of the restaurant and it looks "nice" but its hard to tell from the website, so DH emailed a friend from the area to see what he thinks. I will def bring a blanket in case I do stay, but most likely I will find somewhere else - I may even call ahead of time to see what the restaurant recommends.

The chief is bringing his wife. No mention of the chait's wife....maybe he doesn't have one...

J

Jera
Mom to Carter ~ 05.13.03
Madigan ~ 09.28.04
Natalie ~ 09.17.05 (born at 25 weeks!!)
Alexa ~ 11.03.06

[Marisa6826]

It is going to be wicked cold up there, so bundle her up!!

Again, good luck!

-m

[ShanaMama]

Jera, I was having trouble getting on the boards, so I'm coming in late here. Glad it worked out with your tactful save, & Lexi will get to meet all the big bosses.
I'd suggest arriving a bit early so you can scout out the restaurant. You can check out the lounge/ area to see if you're comfortable with that. Otherwise, you may just want to move to a more secluded area (an empty table or lounging area if they have one) in the restaurant to nurse.
I think it might create an awkward impression if you NIP without first feeling out these ppl. You absolutely have the right, but you still want to make a business-like impression.
Godd luck with the trip & the decision.

[maestramommy]

Jera, I totally understand your concern about the NIP. If you have a sling, that should be enough, or a receiving blanket? Since they know you have a nursing newborn, and they are docs themselves, they should at least expect that you will have to nurse her during the dinner. I think since you are so comfy with NIP yourself you know all the moves, so maybe just a coverup in case they aren't as comfy?

BTW, glad it's all working out!!

[Saccade]

Chiming in late here, but when I have been on medical faculty search committees we always like to meet the spouse/partner and as many kids as the candidate is comfortable bringing. It is a vital part of the "matchmaking" process. Departments can be very much like extended families and it is important that everyone in the recruit's family feel as comfortable as possible with the department heads. I would say, then, that as a general rule it is good for family to come along. Have a great time and trust your gut.

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[Saccade]

Who is this "boss"? The residency program director? The chair of the dept. he's a resident in? It's very unusual for the program director and/or chair not to bend over backwards to help their resident get a good job. The jobs that past residents get reflect directly on the residency and influence future applicants.

If this difficult person is someone other than the program director or the chair, he should tell the program director that this person is interfering with his interviews.

If it is in fact the program director or the chair you are talking about, that's a bigger problem. In that case, I'm happy to talk about it with you/him offline (I am imvolved in resident education, but I am not in his specialty, so I can offer a sympathetic but neutral opinion).

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[kozachka]

(((Hugs))), Jera. Your DH's boss sounds like a reall @$$. It's a pity you had to cancel dinner and won't be able to stay with your family for the week-end. And after all the planning... Hope 1) your DH gets an awesome offer, and 2) Karma catches up to the boss.

[maestramommy]

Okay, your Dh's boss is a .....well, you've already said it so well. So sorry it's turned out like this. Boy the thought of working for this loser any longer would prompt me to move anywhere, as long as I didn't have to come into contact with him anymore.

[MonicaH]

Jera,

I haven't read the replies to your second update, but I think this guy is as you said a sadistic jerk who wants to see how far he can push your DH. Having worked (indirectly) with people like this, I can say with certainty this the situation will NOT improve once your DH finishes his training program. If anything, it will probably get worse because residents and fellows are (or should be) relatively protected by the constraints of their training program and the oversight that (should be) happening with it. Once you are faculty, there's no oversight and the low person on the totem pole might get completely scutted out and dumped on. It sounds like this guy is already demonstrating that he likes to push around and control his underlings. RUN AWAY.

I hope the job in NY or somewhere else works out. It's so important to find a medical job that is compatible with your family life, and "prestige" or slightly more money will not make up for it when the job makes you miserable. Good luck.

Monica