Going to observe a preschool - what do I look for/ask about?!?

[sarahsthreads]

I can't believe my baby is getting so big - first a toddler bed, now preschools! Anyway, we're only really planning to look at the one attached to our church, as I'm not looking for academics *at all*, just social things like learning to listen well to other adults and to share when mommy's not around to enforce it. So unless there are any red flags we're not going to bother looking further.

Problem is, I'm not sure what red flags I should be looking for. I'm worried about how they deal with kids not listening or not sharing well - we don't use time-outs at home, but is this something that all preschools do? Or don't do? So obviously I'll ask about that, and about how potty trained DD actually needs to be, but what else?

I know it's a generally well-liked preschool in our community, so I'm assuming the basic level of care of the children is good, and they said over the phone that they try to keep the ratio at 6:1 and it's capped at 8:1, with two teachers in the room at all times (so 12-16 kids and two teachers) which seems pretty reasonable to me.

I'd just like to go armed with a list of things to look for or ask about so that we don't find a reason to regret not looking around come fall!

Thanks!
Sarah :)

[Lynnie]

I'd just look at how the teachers interact with the kids, and, like you said, how they handle "discipline issues."

My older child's teacher, who has been with him since he was one, is so soft spoken and gentle, yet she has total control of the class. She handles problems by getting down on the childrens level, looking them in the eye and speaking calmly and clearly, and firmly, but nicely. They ALL listen to her. A part timer who used to work there would kinda yell and scream across the room, and I really hated that. There is one person who comes in to help at lunch/nap time who is not that pleasant. DS1 doesn't like her and says she is like the Giants coach (tom coughlin ??) because she has a serious/mean face. If she were the head teacher or spent a lot of time with them, I would have a problem. FWIW, our school does not do time outs really, at least as far as I know. Not sharing means the toy will be taken and neither kid will get it, or they will try to find a second toy so each kid will have one, depending on the age, situation, and whether there is a second toy around.

I would also look at the sick policy, and see if you see any disgustingly sick kids in class. Kids WILL get sick in class, and most places allow you to send kids with a cold as long as the symptoms aren't nasty, so clear running noses or some sniffles is probably to be expected, but you don't want to hear a kid coughing up a lung, or dripping yellow/green mucus from his nose. (ewww. sorry).

I'd also look at cleanliness. When kids put a toy their mouths, are the toys taken out of the rotation to be cleaned ? If they have carpets, are they cleaned ? How often do they clean all the toys, etc.

Also, as far as the ratio goes, I am not sure about the age, but it seems good, of course, I'd prefer the 6:1 !! Having the two teachers in the room at all times is good, but see if they have a floater or staff to come in and help at times when it gets especially hectic or whatnot. I always liked that at my school, they were never afraid to walkie talkie the office and ask for a hand if they had a couple upset kids they wanted to comfort/deal with.

I think as long as it is a clean and loving environment, and the teachers have control of the class, it'll be just fine, and a great experience for DD.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I wrote up a list of things for someone back a few months ago here. They moved the topic to the Toddler boards (the preschool one). I will paste my answer but you may want to go over there to read more ideas. :)

It doesn't hurt at all to visit other schools at least to compare and know that you are getting the best fit for you and your child. There are many programs that others love in our area but just didn't feel right for us. Don't rule out the possibility that you could go to your church's program and just not love it. That is OK! And if you are on the fence it helps to have others to compare to.


I personally just took all referals and visited every school that sounded good. I got pretty good at weeding out schools quickly.

One of my keys was to find out about their potty training philosophy. When I was in college I took an early childhood development class taught by the director of the university's childcare/ preschool facility. She said that schools should not require potty training by X day. She said that schools that require that may not be practicing a "developmentally appropriate" philosophy. She said that the school should respect the individual needs of a child and not assume that all kids can be ready to be pt'ed by a certain age. So, that automatically weeded out a chunk of schools. The ones that were left were all very good and talked at length about supporting the individual child and were developementally oriented. (This wound up being a very good thing for me to look for b/c my ds was very stubborn. He pt'ed 2 months before he turned 4. He did it in one day- when he was ready. I am so glad that there was no pressure to rush him. I tried that and it was a nightmare.)

I also wanted a school that was "play based" I believe that kids learn best through play. So, one school was out when they said they had their 3 year olds start the day with a worksheet. I didn't see any benefit to that.

I really just wanted a school that would work with my son and didn't want him to fit into a mold. I wanted them to nurture what he had to offer and help him learn to get along well with others and be enthusiastic about learning.

There were some great choices for us and our budget. There were schools located at a large university where kids would take daily field trips to the campus and surronding parks and museums. There was one that had a swimming pool and computer lab. We wound up choosing a pretty simple one because it just felt like a good fit for us.

I think the guidelines are good from the NAEYC but you just have to get out there, take tours and collect info.
If I think of more I'll let you know. I was pretty into choosing a preschool 2 years ago and did a lot of research.


And the rest I thought of...

Oh, and I wanted a school where I felt welcome and involved. I went to some that really didn't ecnourage me to stay. The one we chose has a parents' lounge to hang out in. They also let parents stay the first days/ weeks until your child is comfortable with you leaving.

I also like that they are very flexible with arrivals in the AM. The director's philosophy is that for the rest of their school career you have to be on time. Enjoy the early years. Drop off begins at 8:30 but it isn't uncommon for people to roll in at 9:15. Free play is from 9-10:30 so they don't miss much by being late.

Security was a factor. One of the programs was at a large community center. The kids played in the gym some of the day if the weather was bad outside. Well, there were other people around too and it always worried me that if a teacher wasn't paying attention someone could walk off with a kid. I one time walked the track above th gym while my ds was with the gym's babysitters and saw him get pushed by an older kid. I went down to intervene since the sitters missed it. I could have been anyone. The rest of their facility had tight security for the kids but this worried me (and I am not a big worrier ).

Where he is now isn't as tight security wise but there is not a lot of extra foot traffic beyond staff and families. I just don't worry there.

It's great to find a school that has indoor and outdorr play areas. Even better if they take the kids out on every possible day (barring temps too low or hazardous conditions). Fresh air does them good.

Thought of more to add...
Discipline. How do they discipline? Why do they discipline? Our school has 3 rules: 1. children may not hurt themselves; 2. children may not hurt other children or adults; 3. children may not destory materials or the environment. They try to set up situations where there are not a lot of "no's." ALso they try not to have unreasonable expectaions- they know that 2 and 3 year olds are still learning to share and stuff like that.

They are most into talking things through with th kids as means of discipline rather than time outs. Those are reserved for when it is obvious the kid just needs some cooling off. Now, my friends' 3yo started a program recently and they are very tough. She said that her son was in time out for 15 minutes (at once!) the other day. An it didn't sound like he had really done anything major that deserved such a big punishment.



Beth

[SnuggleBuggles]

I wrote up a list of things for someone back a few months ago here. They moved the topic to the Toddler boards (the preschool one). I will paste my answer but you may want to go over there to read more ideas. :)

It doesn't hurt at all to visit other schools at least to compare and know that you are getting the best fit for you and your child. There are many programs that others love in our area but just didn't feel right for us. Don't rule out the possibility that you could go to your church's program and just not love it. That is OK! And if you are on the fence it helps to have others to compare to.


I personally just took all referals and visited every school that sounded good. I got pretty good at weeding out schools quickly.

One of my keys was to find out about their potty training philosophy. When I was in college I took an early childhood development class taught by the director of the university's childcare/ preschool facility. She said that schools should not require potty training by X day. She said that schools that require that may not be practicing a "developmentally appropriate" philosophy. She said that the school should respect the individual needs of a child and not assume that all kids can be ready to be pt'ed by a certain age. So, that automatically weeded out a chunk of schools. The ones that were left were all very good and talked at length about supporting the individual child and were developementally oriented. (This wound up being a very good thing for me to look for b/c my ds was very stubborn. He pt'ed 2 months before he turned 4. He did it in one day- when he was ready. I am so glad that there was no pressure to rush him. I tried that and it was a nightmare.)

I also wanted a school that was "play based" I believe that kids learn best through play. So, one school was out when they said they had their 3 year olds start the day with a worksheet. I didn't see any benefit to that.

I really just wanted a school that would work with my son and didn't want him to fit into a mold. I wanted them to nurture what he had to offer and help him learn to get along well with others and be enthusiastic about learning.

There were some great choices for us and our budget. There were schools located at a large university where kids would take daily field trips to the campus and surronding parks and museums. There was one that had a swimming pool and computer lab. We wound up choosing a pretty simple one because it just felt like a good fit for us.

I think the guidelines are good from the NAEYC but you just have to get out there, take tours and collect info.
If I think of more I'll let you know. I was pretty into choosing a preschool 2 years ago and did a lot of research.


And the rest I thought of...

Oh, and I wanted a school where I felt welcome and involved. I went to some that really didn't ecnourage me to stay. The one we chose has a parents' lounge to hang out in. They also let parents stay the first days/ weeks until your child is comfortable with you leaving.

I also like that they are very flexible with arrivals in the AM. The director's philosophy is that for the rest of their school career you have to be on time. Enjoy the early years. Drop off begins at 8:30 but it isn't uncommon for people to roll in at 9:15. Free play is from 9-10:30 so they don't miss much by being late.

Security was a factor. One of the programs was at a large community center. The kids played in the gym some of the day if the weather was bad outside. Well, there were other people around too and it always worried me that if a teacher wasn't paying attention someone could walk off with a kid. I one time walked the track above th gym while my ds was with the gym's babysitters and saw him get pushed by an older kid. I went down to intervene since the sitters missed it. I could have been anyone. The rest of their facility had tight security for the kids but this worried me (and I am not a big worrier ).

Where he is now isn't as tight security wise but there is not a lot of extra foot traffic beyond staff and families. I just don't worry there.

It's great to find a school that has indoor and outdorr play areas. Even better if they take the kids out on every possible day (barring temps too low or hazardous conditions). Fresh air does them good.

Thought of more to add...
Discipline. How do they discipline? Why do they discipline? Our school has 3 rules: 1. children may not hurt themselves; 2. children may not hurt other children or adults; 3. children may not destory materials or the environment. They try to set up situations where there are not a lot of "no's." ALso they try not to have unreasonable expectaions- they know that 2 and 3 year olds are still learning to share and stuff like that.

They are most into talking things through with th kids as means of discipline rather than time outs. Those are reserved for when it is obvious the kid just needs some cooling off. Now, my friends' 3yo started a program recently and they are very tough. She said that her son was in time out for 15 minutes (at once!) the other day. An it didn't sound like he had really done anything major that deserved such a big punishment.


Thought of something else (sorry for the double post!)...

My child has never really liked large crowds of other kids. I am so glad that the program we ended up at only had 7 kids (and 2 teachers) last year and 10 kids and 2 teachers this year. I think he feels comfortable and relaxed in that environment. Some of the other programs have like 20 kids in the class and I know ds wouldn't have liked that. So, consider your child's temperment. If they really don't like large crowds and prefer more individual attention consider programs accordingly.



Beth

[o_mom]

Here are some of the things I asked when looking at preschools. Some of them will be obvious, but others you need to ask. Some of the things I looked for were allowing siblings to attend field trips and how they handled transportation for trips. I would not be comfortable with a 3-4 yo on a bus. Some will not allow siblings to attend functions, so we would never be able to go along. The pick up and drop off is good to know - do you walk them in everyday or drop off in a car line? 6:1 is OK, but 8:1 seems a bit on the high side to me. The most I saw was 7:1 and it was pretty chaotic. We ended up at a place that has 5:1.

I would encourage you to call a few other places and visit at least one other one. I saw a big difference in the two that I visited - size of the room, number of classes, etc.


1. How long have you been in business?
2. What is the accreditation?
3. What is the licensed capacity?
4. How does pick-up/drop-off work?
5. How flexible are the pick-up/drop-off times?
6. Is there a late pick-up fee?
7. Do you offer sibling discounts?
8. Are parent visits encouraged?
9. Can siblings visit/attend special programs?
10. What is expected from parents?
11. How do you communicate with parents?
12. How large is the group my child would be in?
13. What is the teacher/child ratio?
14. What are the staff’s training and credentials?
15. Does the staff have emergency training?
16. How is the staff screened? Background checks?
17. What is taught in the 4 yo program?
18. Will you be able to help me determine when my child is ready for Kindergarten?
19. Do you have a daily routine?
20. Are there extracurricular activities from an outside provider?
21. Do you have field trips? How is transportation arranged? If parent provided, how is safety addressed? Can siblings attend field trips if parents are driving?
22. How do you discipline children?
23. How do you comfort children?
24. What is your immunization policy? Is it different than state minimums?
25. What is the sick child policy?
26. What is your release policy? Who may pick up my child?
27. Do you have a sign-in/out for visitors?
28. Are there any food restrictions on sack lunches?


Other:
Safe outdoor play area?
Inviting well-defined areas for different activities?
Restrooms clean and age appropriate?

[SnuggleBuggles]

Great list! And it reminded me of yet another thing(s)...

My ds is a summer kid so we are on fence about kindergarten vs prekindergarten. I wish now that we had chosen a school that had a pre-k or k program so that he could stay put a bit longer at this school. It's not a big deal since the school next year has a pre-k and a k (which I will let them place ds appropriately) but it may have been a nice feature. I wouldn't base my choice on it probably unles 2 schools were neck and neck.

Do parents have to bring snack on a rotating basis? Any requirements on what you can bring (due to allergies or basic nutrition)?

Beth

[sarahsthreads]

OK. Wow! That's a heck of a lot more than I would ever have thought about asking. I guess we have until Thursday morning to figure out which things are really important to us and which ones don't matter so much.

Regarding the pre-k option, our local school district has a head start program. Since DD is a fall baby, we have the option of putting her in the 3-year-old program this fall, the 4-year-old program next fall, head start the year after that, and then kindergarten. But unless something drastically changes I'm planning to send her to kindergarten the year she's turning 5. So she'd either go to this preschool for one year, head start the next, and then kindergarten, or we'll do this preschool for two years and skip head start.

Thank you all for putting so much time into your replies!

Sarah :)

[dr mom]

Beth, I just read your awesome preschool info and thought "this is great, I should go rate her and thank her for all the helpful suggestions" - then realized I already did, three months ago. Mommy brain strikes again! Anyway, THANK YOU one more time for breaking it all down for those of us who are preschool neophytes. :)

[chiqanita]

Wow, thanks for posting your question because I'm in the same boat! I appreciate the answers given by our fellow BBBers!


I would like to add something that is on the top of my list when visiting preschools and that is experience with spirited children. I'm hoping to see a sensory table for one thing. I'm concerned that the actions of one of my twins might ultimately earn him lots of 'time-out' or other not so nice consequences. I spend a lot of time working with him and I would like to find a pre-school that will take his 'super sensitivity' to his surroundings as a way of expressing his feelings. Especially since he doesn't communicate via words just yet.

Any preschool prepared to handle this would be a good school for all children....imho.

Good luck!

Don't forget to post what you learned during your visitations.

[ilovetivo]

Amazing lists everyone! Thanks! I totally need the questions this week too!

Is "spirited children" the technical term? I'm wondering how to word this to the director in the meeting.

[sarahsthreads]

We wound up signing DD up for our church preschool. The school may not the best school ever, but it seems really good. The ratio is max 6:1 for the 3-year-old program - all the classes this year were 11 children and 2 teachers. It's the 4-year-old program that has the 8:1 ratio.

The best part? Since I grew up in this town and played piano in this church for years (pretty much whenever I wasn't away at college and then until DD was born) I actually know most of the teachers - one lives three houses down the street from us! And they are all smitten with DD. So I'm really, really comfortable with the idea of her going there.

The rooms were clean and full of the kids' artwork, the kids were very obviously enjoying themselves, and the teachers seemed really enthusiastic about what they were doing. We were there observing for just over a half hour, and one of the teachers drew Carrie right into the class, helping her participate in the activity (they were having "winter science day" and playing with snow and ice) and then giving her a spare "spot" for circle time. They only do two field trips with the 3-year-olds, one of which is walking to the nearby fire station, the other is at a farm with parent transportation and siblings being welcome.

They encourage the parents to come in for their child's birthday to read a story to the class and bring whatever special birthday treat they'd like. Parents are welcome at other times, but I think they were tactfully trying to say that it was better for the kids if we didn't hover. ;)

The *only* downside I could see is that DD needs to be potty trained, but I'm not too worried on that front since it's 8 months away and she's already showing serious interest in the idea of losing the diapers. DH and I actually agree that if she's not old enough to be potty trained, she's probably not old enough to go to preschool. We're both comfortable with the idea of eating the registration fee and waiting until next year if she's really not ready.

All of the lists of questions were really, truly helpful. There were things I'd never thought about asking, like about field trips, and things I wouldn't have thought to look for, like how well the play areas were set up. We actually went twice - once with DD during class time, and then over the weekend to the open house - and I was able to look for and ask about much more detailed things after my initial (good) impression. I'd definitely suggest visiting twice to anyone going looking, especially if they're bringing their child with them for the first visit. There were a bunch of follow-up questions I realized I needed to ask pretty much as soon as we were all back in the car after the first visit.

So, thanks again, and good luck to everyone else looking at preschools now!

Sarah :)

[ilovetivo]

I copied everyone's questions and added some of my own. Thought you might want my list. The beginning ones don't have numbers (partly b/c i'm too lazy and partly b/c they're the most important for me to ask on the phone call to them before visiting:

Class hours/days, school year period
Price, payment plans, refunds (if we move etc)
Spaces left/Registration deadline
Potty Trained/change diapers
References of other parents
Food Allergies:
- Peanut/nut/milk free?
- Are teachers trained in epi and emergencies
- How is allergy info displayed
- Where are epi pens kept, unlocked?
- Do FA parents approve snacks
- Who brings snacks and when
- How do other non FA parents feel about food allergy policy
- Substitute teachers
- Washing hands

1. How long have you been in business? What is the accreditation?
2. Teaching philosophy (nurture her own potential, individual characteristics, gifted/advanced)
3. What is the licensed capacity? Class size?
4. What is the teacher/child ratio? Teachers/aids
5. How large is the group my child would be in?
6. Gradual entry program?
7. What is expected from parents?
8. Are parent visits encouraged?
 Are they welcome and involved? Parent special days?
9. How are they involved with the classroom/school?
10. How do you communicate with parents?
11. Do siblings visit/attend special programs?
12. Staff turnover?
13. What are the staff’s training and credentials?
14. How is the staff screened? Background checks?
15. What is taught in the 2-3 yo program?
16. If religious, how is that handled/discussed? Holidays celebrated?
17. Safe outdoor play area? What temperatures do you go out
18. Do you have a daily routine?
19. Inviting well-defined areas of play and learning for different activities?
20. Are there extracurricular activities from an outside provider?
21. Will you be able to help me determine when my child is ready for Kindergarten?
22. How & why do you discipline children? Reasonable expectations?
23. How do you comfort children?
24. What is your immunization policy? Is it different than state minimums?
25. What is the sick child policy?
26. What is your release policy? Who may pick up my child?
27. Security? Do you have a sign-in/out for visitors?
28. How does pick-up/drop-off work? Flexible times? Late fees?
29. Restrooms clean and age appropriate?
30. Do you have field trips? How is transportation arranged? If parent provided, how is safety addressed?
31. Summer camp? How is it structured?
32. Do you off a Pre-k or Kindergarten program
33. Do older classes change to afternoon?

[californiagirl]

> I'm worried about how they deal with kids not listening
>or not sharing well - we don't use time-outs at home, but is
>this something that all preschools do?

Lots of preschools do, but not all of them -- don't trust anybody who says, oh, of course we do time-outs, we have to. DD's preschool doesn't (they do move out-of-control kids to help them calm down, but it's a whole different vibe).

We have a friend whose daycare does worksheets (including as homework!) and is big into prizes (and not for everybody, either) both of which I find terrifically annoying. I'd ask about that.

I can tell you that they've been telling her she's a smart girl, she can do better, which I'm not sure I'm crazy about. (I know this because yesterday my not-quite-3-year old after a titanic battle and a furious crying bout said "You hurt my feelings, Mommy. You're a smart mommy, and I know you can do better than using mean words." In case you're curious as to what mean word I used, according to her the mean part of "When you ask politely, you can wash your hands again by yourself" is "hands".)