What are your concerns about education today?

[JoyNChrist]

Hi ladies!

I have to write a research paper for a master's class I'm taking online. The topic choice is pretty open (which I hate, btw) - has to deal with a current educational issue and provide enough controversy that the writer can defend his or her stance.

My first choice involved bilingual education, but my mentor shot it down because he didn't think it would appeal to a large enough demographic (rolling of eyes...but that's another story). So now I'm kind of stumped. I want to pick something I'm really interested in, you know? Not just some easy topic that I can use to hurry up and write my paper.

And then I thought - hey, who better to ask than parents? So that's why I'm here - if you have a child who is currently attending grade school or higher (or who will be doing so soon), what are your concerns about the education system? Any issues in particular that you think need to be addressed? Any big pet peeves?

I really appreciate it - I'm trying to finish this class before the baby gets here, and this is the biggest project so I want to get it out of the way first. You don't have to write me an essay or anything, but if you could just suggest a topic or maybe provide relevant links, it'd be a huge help.

TIA!

[s_gosney]

One of my interests both personally and professionally is what my mentor calls "the lost art of early childhood education". With the big push of the testing standards and the public school pre-k movements, children are being pushed in academics at younger and younger ages. It's an interesting issue b/c obviously we want our children to learn and there's that whole thing of being left behind by other countries, but the methods being used today IMO are undermining children's innate ambition to learn thus jeopardizing their long-term learning.
Well, dd is wrestling me for the computer, so gotta go for now. Good luck with the paper!

[MarisaSF]

Fall-out from NCLB -- "teaching to the test," etc.

[MayB]

No Child Left Behind is my number one concern as well: teaching to the test and the absence of the arts/creativity in the curriculum.

[jesseandgrace]

I agree, teaching to the test.

I HATE teaching to the test, but I also think it would be a good topic because you can make some arguments on the other side of it, like the theory behind no child left behind, and the test will show if anyone is falling behind. I think Massachusetts is a good state to research, if you don't pass the MCAS I think they won't give you your diploma. I think that's bad, but some argue that then the schools are responsible for making sure all kids have this skills before graduation, and theoretically that is a good thing.

[lizajane]

for me and my most likely ADHD kid who will have one more year in preschool to calm down, it is drugging very young children in order to maintain classroom decorum.

[brittone2]

NCLB and the push of academics to earlier and earlier in the curriculum
(and ITA w/ "teaching to the test". A good friend of mine is no longer allowed to give essay tests since the standardized tests are all mult. choice. She's supposed to prep the kids for those standardized tests by pretty exclusively using multiple choice. Not so great prep for college and the real world.)

The amount of schools cutting out recess (in addition to things like art, music, etc.) because of NCLB and supposedly fear of lawsuits. I don't think little bodies (including all the way through middle school if not high school) were meant to sit behind a desk all day.

[maestramommy]

Okay, I don't know if this is controversial enough, but my biggest concern is that because of the whims of politicians, new legistlations keep coming down the pike even though no on really knows if they will solve anything. As a result I feel like the requirements are getting increasingly rigorous in terms of quantitiy of "stuff" students need to know, but I'm doubtful as to whether this will actually improve the quality of their education. Take No Child Left Behind (hope you're not Canadian). If anyone could provide a solid case for why this was a good idea I'd be willing to listen. Hey! There's your controversy right there :-)

[overcome]

You will find a ton of information on NCLB. Then there are the issues of Charter Schools, Standardized testing, homework...mostly offshoots from NCLB.

Another hot topic is wellness. Our district just started taking a kids' BMI (body mass index) and sending home a letter to let the parents know if s/he is underweight, overweight, or average. Birthday goodies are not allowed. Teachers are not allowed to give food as a reward.

Good luck!

[Bethann31]

I'm right along with everyone else. I have 2 High Schooler, a middle schooler and a preschooler. Last year, I had a High Schooler, a Middle Schooler, an Elementary School kid and a preschooler. I am furious at all levels. No Child Left Behind has been a horrible thing at all levels. Besides the necessary "teaching to the test," "career clusters" are the new buzzword at the High School and Middle School levels. Kids are supposed to decide what they want to be as adults in the 6th or 7th grade, so that their high school curriculum can be tailored to that. Ummm... no... K - 12 is supposed to be when you TRY THINGS OUT. If I hadn't refused to allow my children to participate, my son might not have found his love for theatre, and my daughter would not be in the band.

Block scheduling is another pet peeve of mine, but I'm sure it isn't a large enough issue on its own. As a part of NCLB, I think you can mention it though.

Please feel free to PM me if you need any help. As well as having a ton of kids, I was also a public school teacher for many years.


Beth
mom to:

Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
Katherine 6/03

[SnuggleBuggles]

That the schools don't practice the research on education. Like, they say boys learn better if they are given shorter periods (breaks between for gross motor movement), more play time, the ability to move around in the classroom more and just that they tend to learn differently than girls. I would almost favor same sex education *if* that meant they were teaching boys and girls the way that is natural for them.

I really despise standardized testing. Especially when it used to dictate my child's future. I was a terrible stand. test taker but a straight A student. I also hate schools that teach to the test or believe that high test scores are the be all and end all.

I want a more holistic approach to education. A place where academics are balanced with a developmental approach.

There are many more. As ds gets closer to kindergarten I am becoming more and more aware of issues that concern me. But, I'll leave it with just one more thing- I want there to be emphasis on second languages in the lower grades; I want a music program; I want play time; I want teachers that are paid well and respected; I want teachers that can really be involved and not have tight limits on lessons (the freedom to deviate if the kids really get into one particulair unit thus want to continue exploring it at their own pace, kwim?).

Ah, one more. :) I really think that it is unfair that the kids that place into gifted programs in public schools get exposed to better stuff. For example, the kids at my school in that program regularly went to plays and musical performances. Our school district was very economically and racially varied and many of the kids in the gifted families came from more well to do families. These families were already taking their kids to these kinds of events. The other kids could have benefitted from being exposed to he arts, probably even more than the kids in the gifted program.

Beth

[AngelaS]

Some of my beefs w/public schools:

NCLB is a good one. It promotes kids with their age level if they're truly delayed or just lazy and don't want to try. You no longer have to try to graduate.

Politics being taught in school. Abe Lincoln was NOT be best president ever. We never learned the other side 'freeing the slaves', but my kids will. ;)

Anti Christian curriculum in schools--You cannot talk about Christmas w/Jesus, but you can learn all about Hanukah, Kwanzaa and any other religion's celebration. Along those lines, the Pilgrims gave thanks to God the first Thanksgiving, not to the "Indians".

[dules]

Bethann, OMG my sister has been so frutrated over the career cluster mindset with her kids too! She has twin DS who are 16, one was always super organized, interested in how things work, loved science and math, etc. (even as a preschooler, his trains and cars were in perfect rows, all toys clean and in top working order, etc.). Well at age 10 he didn't "test into" the math/science "level" that tracks kids into the higher end science and math for high school so now has been a little bored and is taking basic college prep classes, doing well, but my sister is soooo sad that he never got to explore the things he was so interested in - physics, astronomy, etc....all because of a TEST he took at age 10. Grr.

Vent over. :)


Mary

P.S. Your DS taking after DH into lighting? I think DD is going to be an actress - DH loves playing "find your light" with her. LOL.

[scoop22]

i didn't read the pp b/c i didn't want to sway my thoughts.

i have a hard time with not failing kids in elementary school. our school district does this and it drives me nuts. not that i feel that all students fail but some students just don't get it. and it would be beneficial for them. others it isn't. we have students in 8th and 9th grade who never learned their mult. facts. grrrrrrrrrrr
or can't read. what good is it doing them to be in 8th and 9th grade when they don't have the basics.

students aren't held accountable. it is he said she said.

class sizes. the ratio of students to teachers. schools are cutting the budget all the time. students are coming into schools and we don't have enough teachers to do the things that are necessary for learning.

time. we are supposed to be hands on but by time we get into the class and get things rolling time is up.

being test driven is another thing that drives me crazy. i understand why schools do this. not that i agree but it is their butt on the line when they don't pass the tests. not the students. standards should be met no matter what.

i have so many more topics but i will stop here.

great post by the way. good luck with your paper!!!
i hope you get some clear topics
http://b2.lilypie.com/XbITm4.png

[kransden]

Lack of recess!!!!!!!
When I was a kid, we had recess twice a day and lunch recess too. Not at the district I am in. It is horrible. The kids only get recess at lunch. The younger kids often eat at 11am and come in at 11:45. They have to stay in class until 3:00!!

BTW I sub in a very poor district. Often there is over a 90% participation in the free lunch program. So the free breakast consists of, I kid you not, Trix, apple juice, Pepperidge Farms graham cracker cookies,and milk. Typically, the poorer the school, the less likely the kids will drink milk. (What is up with that??) So the kids are hepped up on artifical colors and sugar. What a treat to teach kids with ADD that have had sugar for breakfast. Some can't sit down for more than 5 minutes at a time.

Plus the area the kids live in aren't safe. So when they get home what can they do? Sit on their bottoms and watch TV. People wonder why we are getting fatter.

I can rant about this more if you need more info, just pm me.

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[JenDC]

I don't have school-age children but I was a high school teacher before dd was born. My concerns include:
too much standardized testing/teaching to the test
lack of sex ed
class size
not enough relevant assessments
inequity in school funding

I could go on forever...

Jen
mom to Shoshana 3.29.06

[tchrmom13]

I'm a current high school teacher so I could give you a laundry list of issues I see with my students

* NCLB and the lack of funding it "operates" under
* Politicians changing educational goals/objectives to become more popular with their constituents
* Parental involvement at the higher grades. My students that struggle often have the parents that are not involved or are apathetic ("oh well" they say "what can I do")
* Propensity for administrators to adopt new methods/polices just because they are "new" -- usually there is no theoretical background or research to support
* CLASS SIZE
* Inclusion education - I think when you have the right team its awesome!
* I completely disagree with your instructor about bilingual education - its a huge issue in my area and a big area for growth
* Multiculturalism in schools
* "Effective teaching" another big buzzword

I could go on and on...


Feel free to PM me if you want any other suggestions or have any questions about the above topics. I have been in education for almost 10 years as a teacher, counselor, etc. Good luck!!!

Heather
DS 3/06

[ilovetivo]

Stacy - I got your PM regarding food allergies. Did you get my reply? I sent lots of good info for you.

[elaineandmichaelsmommy]

dd is only 4 but i'd have to say the looking at my friends children in elementery school that my i'm concern with the amount of time the children spend on homework. One child i know who's in 1st grade spends 2 hours on homework each night!!! WTH?! Maybe in junior high or high school.
Her mother claims that the school does this so that the children and parents can spend time together at night doing the homework. Ummm no. not for us. I could just as easily spend the time teaching her to sew or watching the stars.
Good luck on your paper.

[mapg]

What about the value of the Accelerated Reader program in the higher grades? I thought it was a great tool when my daughter was learning to read, but now, in 5th grade it has become a struggle to find reading material that is age appropriate that she hasn't already read. If you don't like the fantasy fiction such as Eragon, there just isn't a lot out there to hit your goal. Plus, it take the fun out of reading. I would hate to take a test on every book i have ever read.
MA

[KBecks]

Cool!!! Sounds like fun.

My concerns

1) Security. I want to know my kids are safe at school. In Milwaukee, there have been some real nasty fights in schools (you could search and find a story where fights broke out and then parents came and joined in the fighting -- too crazy -- cell phones helped to instigate the fighting and now they're working on how to enforce a cell phone ban). Also, I read Protecting the Gift and it was a great read but also made me more security-conscious about taking this issue very seriously.

2) Individualization. I want my kids to have some customization to meet their specific needs and am concerned about the one-size-fits-all approach.

[KBecks]

Yes!

[denna]

I havent dealt w/ this personally but I did see something on Oprah about this a while back and found it very interesting. I was stunned at how many high schoolers had dropped out and the different states approaches to try and curb the rate.

[Tracey]

The other posters here have all mentioned my concerns. I just wanted to say that I am looking forward to having a new president and keeping my fingers crossed that there will be new legislation to repair some of the damage done by NCLB. In the meantime, we are opting for private school where my daughter will have recess and will only have one standardized test a year.

[sdbc]

I hear you, Tracey.

I think, unfortunately, one of the underlying agendas of NCLB is to get parents (with the means to do so) to send their kids to private schools and put an end to support for good free public education. We're considering private school b/c of the same issues, but I hate to see those bas****s win!

Sue, mommy to Aurora (Rory) born 5/13/04

[overcome]

>I just wanted to say that I am looking forward to having a new
>president and keeping my fingers crossed that there will be
>new legislation to repair some of the damage done by NCLB.

ITA

[MartiesMom2B]

I'm nodding my head in agreement with this one.

-Sonia
Mommy to Martie
& Li'l Girl Bunny to come Feb. 2007
http://bd.lilypie.com/Kchhm4/.png (http://lilypie.com)

[saschalicks]

Here are mine:
NCLB- teaching to the test

Public schools in my area are horrendous. So not only is cost of living astronomical I now have to send my kids to private school to get a decent education. I would love to hear about why the public schools (i.e. politicians) have no funding and no way of improving.

Teachers salaries are horrendous, which does not encourage people who could be ecxeptional (sp?) teachers to become one.

The lack of arts in schools.

[ilovetivo]

Stacy - I just forwarded my message to your other email. Pls let me know if you don't get it and I'll post it here.

[kijip]

School segregation is my #1 concern. Segregation is classes and the acheivement gaps between ethnicities. I see it as a brutal form of racism.

I am also worried about recess and gym being cut, teaching to the test issues and (poo on your mentor) bilingual education. As in teaching kids in multiple languages for the benefit of native English speaking students and ESL students.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Do you mean tracking kids? And how the distribution in the higher tracks is more often skewed white and more economically advantaged? That was how it was at my school growing up. I have mixed feelings about the tracks though; with the exception of health/ phys. ed and world cultures in 10th grade all other classes were divided from grade 10+ (some tracking began in 7th grade). I was almost always happy to be in my upper level classes as there were fewer behavior problems. They have since nixed the tracks. In high school students can still take AP classes though. Otherwise I think things are more mixed. Ok, that was very long winded. Just wasn't sure if that is what you meant with segregation?

Beth

[kijip]

I mean that when you walk into schools in most cities you will all too often find that either the school is mostly white or mostly minority or the classes within a schol building are segregated.

Case in point (though not the only similar example) - the main elementary gifted school for Seattle had 7 black students just a couple of years ago. 7. Just a handful of minority students total overall. A friend whose son goes there has been there 5 years and can count the number of kids that he has been in class with that are not white. I do not believe that there are only 7 gifted African American K-5 graders in a district that primarily has minority enrollment. Obviously the gifted kids that are not white have a harder time enrolling there since they are not enrolled. Why? And what can change that? Other desirable schools in the city (not just magnet schools) have the same sort of racial imbalance issues and in recent years they have worsened. I know that it is important that my son go to school and get a top-notch education. However it is equally important to me that he go to a diverse school, one that reflects his family and his community. So what do I do? Send him to a school that is not performing well in my city that has a primarily black, SE Asian and Latino/a population or do I send him to one of the schools that is doing quite well academically but is largely white? Why are the schools not reflecting the racial breakdown of the city? Sending him to a school that is mainly students of a different ethnic group than him defeats the point of diversity in the first place as a segregated school is never diverse. It is a real issue for me. It is complicated by the fact that I have an early reading, early writing child who is very bright so some of the gifted programs may in fact be necessary/suitable and that is where the differences are even worse. I attended the gifted programs here and 15-20 years ago they were more integrated. You would think things would be getting better, but they have not.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Something they did in my community 20 years ago was forced intergration. They merged 4 school districts that were very different economically and racially and created one mega school district. That is where I went. Even though the school was diverse I don't know how much of a difference it made on a whole.

Beth

[kijip]

>Something they did in my community 20 years ago was forced
>intergration. They merged 4 school districts that were very
>different economically and racially and created one mega
>school district. That is where I went. Even though the
>school was diverse I don't know how much of a difference it
>made on a whole.


Maybe on a micro level with individuals it does not always make a difference to each individual person. I believe that integration does make a difference and is a public good. And more particulary for me, I just can not raise my son to be racist. It matters very little what I say about race, it matters what I do about race. In this particular case, if I send him to a school for advanced kids and all those advanced kids are white, he is going to internalize the message that white kids are the advanced kids. For me personally, there is just about no matter of greater importance as far as raising my son. But I know that is my personal interest and personal priority.

[elizabethkott]

Oooooh this makes me MAD!

I teach in a high school district (meaning the 3 elementary school districts feed into the same high school district). There are 2 7-12 schools (North and South High), 1 7-9 Junior high and a 10-12 High school (Central, where I teach).

YEARS ago, the school board in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to "redistrict" so that students from the elementary districts could either go to North or Central, or go to South or Central. If a parent wanted to, they could "elect" to go to either the school in their zone or to Central.

What has wound up happening is this: there has been a huge demographic shift in the community. There are many more minority families moving into the area. And now, all the white parents "elect" to have their students go to either North or South, depending on their zone. And all the minority students' parents "elect" to send their student to Central. Thus, we have wound up with a highly disparate student population. Central is now 65% minority, which I LOVE to teach in! Seriously, if I lived in the district, I would have my son go to Central. It's a wonderful school and a more accurate representation of life in the NY Metro area, IMO.

Fortunatly, the school board is now trying to eliminate the option of choosing where a student goes... school board meetings are about to get very interesting!

So this was totally off topic from the original post, but my point is this - if you want some really good ideas for topics, go to a local school board meeting! :)

Or, what about school budgets? That's always a hot topic for parents, teachers, taxpayers, etc.

[cstack]

Don't let anyone push you into medicating your child first before nothing else is tried and failed. But don't discount medication to the point that things get out of control and your own child suffers because impulsivity and inattention get in the way of his own learning (been there, done all of it, going through way worse now). My big issue with meds (and they did work for my son when he was on them) is the idea teachers have that the meds are the be all end all. ADHD kids still require a lot of work and teachers that are willing to do it. Also, since your DC is still in preschool, make very certain that the Dx is accurate before allowing anyone to label him. If you ever need answers, have questions, or just need to vent to someone who gets it, you can email me at [email protected]. Just make sure you mention something in the subject line that will get my attention, or I'll think you're the thirtieth person trying to give me money that belonged to someone who died in a foreign country with no heirs.

[kijip]

>Central is now 65% minority, which I LOVE to teach in!
>Seriously, if I lived in the district, I would have my son go
>to Central. It's a wonderful school and a more accurate
>representation of life in the NY Metro area, IMO.

That would be a great balance for me. What I have to choose from in the public schools here though is either a school that is 90-99% white or 90-99% minority. So no real diversity- he can either be in a large majority in the school or in a tiny minority within his school. Neither makes me think of integration. As choice goes away here in favor of neighborhood schools, it erodes further as my city is fairly segregated. And none of this would make me half as mad if the schools were somewhat equal in terms of resourses and quality. But guess what schools have the PTAs raising hundreds of thousands of dollars (sometimes augmenting the teaching staff and adding back in enrichment programs like music and art that the district has trimmed)? You can't blame the parents that have money from wanting to improve their child's school but when it means that students at the mainly white schools are just plain getting more in terms of options and chances, it makes me sad. All kids deserve a good school. Period. I actually already go to school board things here just to suss out if there is a public school situation that will work for us.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Oh, I am sure all the students at least benefitted in some way from being with kids that weren't just like us. I am happy to have gone to that district. It was probably balanced 35% black, 64% white and 1% Asian- not a wow in the diversity realm but better than it was before the schools were merged.

Beth

[cstack]

I'll echo everyone else with NCLB and teaching to the test. I *understand* that W wanted to make sure that schools are held accountable for making sure that kids are getting the very best education. I don't get how everyone seems to feel (government and powers that be) that a standardized test is the best measure of that. Please. I'm a special ed teacher and a mom of 2 special ed students. It's not realistice to think they can pass a test, that cannot be adapted for them and is on their age-grade level, but not their academic level when IDEA says we have to teach them to their academic level and not their grade level.

Also, if you are going to hold teachers and schools accountable, fine. Please, hold the parents accountable, too! Sorry, if the poor baby I'm teaching right now had not been abused, neglected, and abandonded, all by the time he was 4, he might be a little better off. But of course, he also doesn't have the mental capacity to do it. He was left behind at birth. If a child has no food in his house, or a house period, passing a test that is so high pressure and means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things in his life is pretty low on his list of priorities. When Dad's in jail, and mom works all the time just to try to get by and no one can help prepare a child (despite all the PSSA recommendations as to what you can do to help your child that come on the results) or help do homework, she's probably just not going to be ready, or she's going to be so stressed out she can't think. If your family moved here for another country a year ago and you're trying like heck to learn the language, but you have to take the test in English, because the state says you should be ready, you're gonig to lose so much in the translation that you'll mess up on what you do know how to do - never mind what you don't know how to do. HOW is that the school's fault and how are setting standards that are just too high to be even remotely realistic and then penalizing schools when the kids can't do it going to make any difference?

Sorry, that turned out to be too long, but these are the real concerns that politicians just don't seem to get. Of course, they can afford to send their DC to the best private schools, so it doesn't really affect them.

[bisous]

Katie,

I just had to share my experience at school. I had a great time in high school attending my local public school that was approx. 70% minority population. I think I benefitted mightily from the diverse population. It was really a wonderful environment and I hope that my children have the same experience. However, we had only one honors track. Wouldn't you know that only 3 kids in a class of 35 were not white? I don't know how to explain this except that I personally know 2 of the kids were "permitted" into the honors track by there very involved (and might I add WEALTHY) white parents while the it was supposed to be based on testing evaluation and middle school performance. I can't explain the other 30 children only being white but it seems to indicate that there are other systemic problems at work in the schools. Honestly, I can't wait until I have 250 posts so I can hopefully talk about these things over at the purple project. I'll bet I learn a ton.

Just thought I'd share my experience,

Jen

[kijip]

Oh just come on over to the purple project now. We need ya!

www.thepurpleproject.com

I think the unequal breakdown on the honors track that we so often see comes from a combination of several factors:

-parents and kids need to know the option is available and seek to get in. Those with more education/resources/connections are going to be more likely to have that information.

-teachers and administrators either conciously or unconciously reccomend white kids more than minority kids for the programs or to the tests that lead to the programs.

-prospective minority students/parents may see the racial disparity and decide not to attend due to concerns about the unequal breakdown.

[bisous]

I have really "seen" your first and third factors in action at the schools that I have attended. The pushy white parents who jumped through district hoops to get there children into the honors program are extreme examples of the way that that kind of pressure does produce results. I have personally known one family, a legal immigrant from the Phillipines that caved to pressure from administrators. Her daughter was placed in a lower track because she indicated on her form that she spoke another language besides English. Her mother and father didn't want to rock the boat but eventually understood and recognized that they needed to. I'm happy to report that this little girl is at the top of her class in a highly desire magnet high school and has great prospects for college. There are happy stories out there but there need to be way more. :)

Thanks for the invite, BTW. I'll be hopping over to that site right away. I have to admit, I was "kinda" hoping that you'd let me in!

[JoyNChrist]

I got it - thank you SO MUCH! I'll be e-mailing you back either when I finish or have more info.

[JoyNChrist]

...food allergies! I picked this after reading ilovetivo's excellent thread on the subject. It amazes me that, as a future educator (my BA is in Social Science Education), I had absolutely no clue about the potential dangers to kids with these kinds of allergies. I was never given any information about it! And there are no rules in effect at many of my area schools that would protect these students - I could have killed someone with a peanut m&m! That is really scary to me, both as a future teacher and parent. There really should be stricter rules in place...I was extremely outraged and interested, which I think makes this an excellent topic. Also, it's something that I don't think any of the other students are going to write about (which was a problem with some of the broader topics), so it should stand out. Although I'm still confused why my mentor wouldn't allow me to write about bilingual education...urgh, anyway, doesn't matter - I have a great topic now.

I want to thank you all for your thoughtful input - y'all made me want to write 10 different papers (well, not really, but I do want to do more research on all the stuff y'all mentioned). I really, really appreciate it! :-)