Do you buy an airline seat for your under 2 yr old when you fly?

[JBaxter]

I am guilty of not buying Nathan a seat until he was 15months old but after that he was just to big and to much to handle.
Last week a Dear Abby piece got me think thinking.. It was from a flight attendent who wondered why parents would spend hundrends of dollars on strollers ( she saw gate checked) and probably carseats but wouldnt pay for the safety of strapping their child into a carseat while on the plane.

It made me think and I just wondered what others thought.

[searchdog]

We have had a seat for DD every single time she has flown and we always use her car seat correctly on the plane, meaning tight install with nice snug harness just like we do in the car. I can't imagine trying to hang onto your child in turbulence. I know she is safe all strapped in.

[hobokenmom]

I just posted about this on another board that I'm a member of.

I really do understand that in many cases it's a financial issue, but I know, for me, if it were a financial issue, I'd probably choose not to take the trip OR to leave the toddler home.

Airplanes are so small and cramped, and it's might uncomfortable for the person who has a toddler sitting on his/her lap, AS WELL AS the people (potentially strangers) who are sitting next to you.

Flying on an airplane (for anyone, not just people with kids) is all about consideration for others, as you're so packed in there like sardines, and you have to do your best.

Another huge pet peeve of mine is people who let their toddlers/preschoolers watch portable DVD players without headphones so that everyone within 3 rows has to listen to Barney loud and clear for the duration of the flight. Very rude, in my opinion. It would be one thing if it kept the kid perfectly quiet, but in my experience the same rude people who allow their child to do that, have whiny demanding kids who aren't quiet.

Hope I haven't offended anyone. Believe me, I am stressing about flying to Phoenix in less than a month with my 2 1/2 year old (strapped into his car seat). I am going to have to pull out all the stops to keep him busy.

[Sillygirl]

Nope. We flew to Europe with Jonathan when he was about six months old, so it wasn't the same as holding onto a squirming toddler. Then again, we flew with him this summer when he was nearly two, and still carried him on our laps - but that was two short flights each way.

I dont' really get the flight attendant's analogy. Carseats get use every single day until the child outgrows them at perhaps four or five. Ditto for strollers, to a lesser extent. So the daily cost is maybe fifty cents. But $800 for a seat on a plane for about twelve hours total? Come on.

[mariza]

>I dont' really get the flight attendant's analogy. Carseats
>get use every single day until the child outgrows them at
>perhaps four or five. Ditto for strollers, to a lesser
>extent. So the daily cost is maybe fifty cents. But $800 for
>a seat on a plane for about twelve hours total? Come on.

The analogy is that people will pay $150-$900 for a stroller or carseat, but will not pay a few hundred dollars to be able to use the carseat on the airplane. If nothing happens during the flight, then great, but when you hit major turbulence or have an emergency landing, you'd wish you had the carseat.
Many airline sell kids seats at half price, but in fairness it can be expensive for the the flights that don't offer it.
I've worked in commercial aviation for a long time and have done it both ways. I generally try to always buy a seat, but there have been a few trips that we've flown standby and had to have DD in our lap due to lack of seats. I much prefer her having a seat for my peace of mind as well as convienience.
I mentioned in another post that I was on a flight that experienced a major mechanical malfunction (the right engine blew up shortly after takeoff). I had no children at the time, but the way that plane shook and knocked over carts that were secured has stuck with me. There is no doubt in my mind that a lapchild would have been thrown off their parents lap. Thankfully, there weren't any on board.

[BargainMomforLuke]

We have never bought a flight for DS (currently 15 months old). We've flown 6 times with him and every time I have been able to bring on his car seat because there have been empty seats on the flights. We've flown Southwest 4 of those times, so we were some of the first people to board and we were able to secure a row to ourselves. The other two times, I just asked the check-in people if we could bring our car seat on and they put us in an empty row. So it's saved us at least $1500.

I feel when you have kids under two and Southwest is available, it's the way to go because they don't assign seats and you don't have to stand in the A, B, or C lines.

If I were to fly overseas with him or on another long flight, I would definitely buy him a seat, though.

[tarynsmum]

I haven't voted, because I haven't flown with DD yet. However, we're most likely going to be on at least one (round trip) flight in the next 6 months, so it's been in my mind. I always thought I would buy her a ticket, but knowing her personality, the odds of her *actually* sitting in the seat is very small. If I'm sitting next to her, she will FLIP if I'm not holding her, or playing with her (yeah, I can play with her in the seat, but I doubt she'll stay in the seat all that much). If I was going on a longer flight, yes, but the flight we'll be on will only be an hour and a half tops, and I just don't think she'll want to hang out in her carseat, and it would be NOT feasible to pay that much money for an empty seat.

Plus, DD is a really small kiddo, so her sitting on my lap wouldn't be terribly uncomfortable.

[Crunchymom]

I just flew with ds for the first time 3 weeks ago. He's almost 3 1/2 years old and weighs 36lbs. We brought his Britax Boulevard on board and were so happy we did. There were lots of other babies and young toddlers on the plane and we were the only ones with a carseat. We took a red eye flight (5 1/2 hours long) hoping ds would sleep through it. We did our whole nighttime routine and then he went right to sleep just like he does when we drive in the car. The last hour of the flight there was a lot of turbulance (the flight attendants couldn't get up) and I woke up from all the bumps. DS however slept though it all, nice and comfy in his carseat! I would definately bring it again and will bring a carseat along with any future babies we have. I couldn't imagine flying with a child on my lap!

[Jen841]

To date I have only bought seats when J was over 2. We flew a lot with him, and 90% of the time we got him a seat and put his carseat in it for FREE. They key is to fly during off times, and carry the seat with you to the plane. I debating doing the same last fall when I traveled alone with the 2. There was NO WAY I could carry 2 seats, the diaper bag AND manage the double stroller through the airport (in addition to getting bags checked). J sat in his seat, and E sat on my lap. We got our own row both ways. Again off times : )

J behaves so well in his seat, and can see out the window.

I was on a flight where the air masks came down and were needed. The kids were not with me, but honestly I think I would have wanted to be holding my baby at that point. It was SCARY!

[Piglet]

We have never bought seats for the kids until they were required, but we also have tried to minimize the number of flights we took with the kids. We have flown 5 trips with at least one "lap" child and except for the most recent trip to San Diego, we had a free seat for the baby, so 80% of the trips had room. Granted this last trip was utterly horrible as far as flying goes and had I known in advance how over-crowded and tiny the planes were going to be, I would have bought DS2 a seat. We were all pretty uncomfortable! I think that as airlines try to cram more people onto flights and have less services onboard, the need for buying a seat for a child will increase. On this last flight we didn't get food or movies on any leg of the flight, so I just had a squirmy, miserable 20 month old on my lap the entire duration - NOT fun! I really wish more airlines would offer a 50% ticket for toddlers and make carseats mandatory. My kids are both much happier in their carseats because they know how to get comfy in them and because they know that they have to stay put!

ETA: We always always bring a carseat to the gate because in every instance that we could get a seat we got to use the carseat without any issues. The last time when we didn't get a seat we still liked the peace of mind of knowing that the carseat was waiting for us at the gate, not on the baggage carousel (even moreso when our luggage never made our connection last time).

[lmintzer]

Always bought seats, even when they were infants. My kids were never happy in our laps for long periods of time but always relaxed and/or slept in car seats. We would have been miserable with them as lap children!

[rlu]

I marked always - granted we only flew once when DS was under 2 (he was 4 months) but it is my firm conviction that having the seat is absolutely necessary for my child's safety. I absolutely believe a child needs to be in a seat while flying just as he needs to be in a seat while riding in a car.

I need to stop, I'm finding myself typing stuff that is sure to upset those who blithely assume a lap child is safe.

[jenmcadams]

We flew a lot with our DD (we did something like 10 roundtrips in her first 14 months of life). On all but one of those flights (the first one), we purchased a seat. We have only flown a few times (3 or 4) since our DS came along and we've always gotten a seat for him. Having said that, since our DD was 3 1/2, we've been checking her carseat and just belting her into her seat. She's pretty tall and she was very uncomfortable when the person in front of her leaned back and she had a hard time not kicking/resting her feet on the seat in front of her.

While I know we'll always buy them seats, it is much more painful financially now that so few airlines give 1/2 price infant fares. I don't really blame them for doing away with the policy...if they can fill the seats with full price fares, that maximizes their revenue and is a better service to their shareholders, but it sure is a bummer for families.

[maestramommy]

Whenever we flew more than an hour we would purchase a seat for Dora. When we flew to San Jose (1 hour) we took a chance that a seat would be available. On one trip it was, on the other it wasn't. Even though it was an hour it was pretty challenging (this was a couple weeks ago), and I wouldn't have wanted to attempt it without DH unless I really had to. She would rather sit in the carseat than sit in our laps at this point, unless we are reading her a story THE WHOLE TIME and she likes it.

[supercalifragilous]

ANYtime DD flies, she has always had her own seat (I miss those days when they were 50% off before she turned 2!!) b/c we always install her carseat on the plane. We've gotten plenty of dirty looks from flight attendants and gate checkers insisting that we check it but since most of plane injuries happen while taxiing or on the tarmac (as opposed to in the air, in flight), installing the carseat on the plane makes sense, just as you would do in a car. What's the difference between taxiing on the tarmac versus driving your car on it?

Also, with DD strapped in, she mentally gets that she cannot get up and wander around until we are parked, just like when we're driving around in town. As long as she is strapped in, she does not even ask to get up and wander around. It's almost like a security thing for her, in a weird way.

For us, getting her a seat is nonnegotiable (and not a choice for us anymore!). We just save up enough $$ and plan on buying her a ticket.

ETA something to think about: To borrow Julie's (JoolsPlus2) saying and tweak it a little bit - If you KNEW the plane was going to have an accident (on the runway or on the ground), would you rather have him in your lap or in his carseat?

[pittsburghgirl]

We did lap on a 1 hr flight to Toronto when DS was 7 months. It was an absolute nightmare. He would not calm down (he was never a cuddler, always needed his own space.)

Before that, and every time thereafter we have purchased a seat for him and taken his carseat on. He is 3 now and we're still using the car seat (will do so until he absolutely won't fit anymore.) Despite the downsides (like kicking and not being able to use the tray) having the carseat makes it so much easier for me. I usually travel alone with him, and have to make a connection. Having him strapped in makes it like riding in a car, where he is used to being strapped in and he doesn't fuss about it.

It was great before he was 2 and we got discounted tix most of the time, but I would have paid full price for the peace of mind, and the easier travel day!

Marilee
mommy to James
http://b3.lilypie.com/CSwdm4.png

[hez]

We always did, but always managed to find a 1/2 price ticket when he was under 2 (I understand they may be harder to find nowadays).

I very much appreciate the fact that Payton slept in his seat on just about every leg he's ever flown. Gave me a chance to nap, too :)

[charleneand2]

This is a little off the main point but it has to do with the car seats. Please don't assume that people who don't bring car seats don't care about their children. Sometimes you HAVE to fly and it is impossible. I will be flying with my 2 1/2 year old twins in the next week. It is impossible to fly with plane changes and going through customs with 2 very active boys, 2 car seats, a double stoller and carryons. They will have their own seats but there will be no car seat on the flight. I would love to be able to do all that but I just can't. It is stressful enough to attempt this without having to worry about all the judgements I will get from other travellers.
I hope I don't get flamed for that but I just wanted to add that point of view.
Charlene

[hobokenmom]

I don't know why it took me so long to figure this out, but I finally did. When I book our tickets and get our seating arrangements, I try to get the seat IN FRONT of where my 2 1/2 year old is going to be strapped into his carseat. Then I make my 7 or almost 10 year old sit there. That way if he kicks the seat in front, he's kicking his brother or sister. It seems to work out well that way.

We're always taken our Marathon with us on planes and it's so big and huge, but last year we had to buy a cheap carseat in an emergency, and I ran out and bought a Cosco Scenera, which I believe is so much smaller. When we go to Phoenix next month, I'm going to try to take that carseat and see if it's a little less cumbersome to carry through the airport.

[hez]

We haven't taken the Marathon yet (we will in June-- thanks for the heads up). We did take the Roundabout before Payton outgrew it. It wasn't too bad to lug around, but I managed to avoid flying without DH, the family packhorse.

[ajmom]

WHen DS2 was born and DS1 was still under 2, I had to fly by myself with both of them and only bought a seat for DS1 b/c I couldn't fit both of them in my lap. Otherwise, we never bought a seat until required.

In response to the flight attendant, I spend the money on a carseat b/c should we be in an accident, there is a much lower chance of severe injuries if my child is buckled up. I always figured if the plane is going down, a car seat isn't going to help much. :p

[C99]

I didn't vote because there wasn't a category for me. I always did with DS, but haven't always with DD (who has ever only been on 1 flight that her brother wasn't also on, and she was 3 months old at the time).

[mariza]

>This is a little off the main point but it has to do with the
>car seats. Please don't assume that people who don't bring
>car seats don't care about their children. Sometimes you HAVE
>to fly and it is impossible. I will be flying with my 2 1/2
>year old twins in the next week. It is impossible to fly with
>plane changes and going through customs with 2 very active
>boys, 2 car seats, a double stoller and carryons. They will
>have their own seats but there will be no car seat on the
>flight. I would love to be able to do all that but I just
>can't. It is stressful enough to attempt this without having
>to worry about all the judgements I will get from other
>travellers.
>I hope I don't get flamed for that but I just wanted to add
>that point of view.
>Charlene

Please don't take this as a flame, but I wanted to let people know that travelling alone with kids can be done if you plan it right. All you need is to cut down on the amount of carry on items (I keep it to one diaper bag) and then it's as easy as hiring a skycap to help get you through security. For the cost of a $5-10 tip you have an extra set of hands that will load and unload all of your stuff for you so you can concentrate on the kids. I know that my 2 year old DD will be easier to control on the flight if she is in her carseat. No one is judging you for not bringing on the carseats, I beleive the intent of the flight attendant was just to try and educate people on the importance of air travel safety.
For the poster who stated that "if the plane is going down, the carseat won't help much anyway" I have to disagree. There are plenty of airtraffic incidents that never make the news in which a carseat can help a great deal. The most common is turbulence. I've seen turbulance that cause flight attendants to get knowed off their feet and bags fall out of closed overhead bins. It could easily force a small child out of your grasp. There are emergency landings and planes that skid off runways, I could go on and on. Please don't feel like a catastrophic aircraft accident is the only way your child can get injured.
I know lots of people can't always buy an extra seat (I'm one of them), but if you plan it well and bring the car seat with you, chances are great that you'll be able to use it on board. Unless you fly Continental, they don't let you use an empty seat for a baby. That is why I don't fly Continental.

Mariza
Mommy to my "Thing 1" DD 1/05
and "Thing 2" DS 9/06

[mariza]

Another tip:
If you are flying alone, skycaps/porters are there to make money, not just to help passengers in wheelchairs. Hire one! They often get to bring you to the front of the line (depends on the airport) so that cuts down on the waiting for impatient children. They will help you load and unload all of your gear (Airport employees are generally not allowed to hold children - beleive me, they get asked!) So now, you can hold your kids while someone else gets all your stuff. Plus they will bring you all the way downto the gate, so it helps cut down on confusion and getting lost in the bigger airports and/or for someone who doesn't travel often.
HTH!

Mariza
Mommy to my "Thing 1" DD 1/05
and "Thing 2" DS 9/06

[Neatfreak]

Mariza, thanks for posting that. I had no idea.

I just got back on Wednesday from my fourth solo trip across the country with my 2.5 year-old. She quite happily sat in her MA on the plane (as she's done for every flight except her first, at four months). What's made the process easier for me is getting some wheels for the carseat (mine are part of a carseat bag), having a large backpack as our only carry-on, and taking her Ergo carrier with us, instead of the stroller.

[hobokenmom]

Oh yes, I'm also a big believer in Sky Caps. I've flown to Florida numerous times with 3 kids by myself, and my parents are always shocked that I can manage the kids and all the stuff. I just explain that when you use a Sky Cap things are much easier. My parents are too cheap to pay for that (a tip!!!).

Also, once your kids get older, like mine, it's SO much easier to travel, AND they can pull suitcases!!

[o_mom]

I have only flown twice since DS1 was born. The first time was an emergency/last minute flight and I was using frequent flyer miles. I only had enough for one ticket so I held him. He was about 7 months old at the time. The second time he was just over a year old and I bought him a ticket.

[DrSally]

I'm not taking issue with anything you said, but just wanted to share that out of the last 8 legs we've flown (Delta and Northwest) only 1 time was there an empty seat for us to use (we brought the carseat to the gate every time). They really are booking flights to capacity now days. Now that DS is older, I intend to buy him a seat next time, although he did wonderfully the last 2 flights.

[Momof3Labs]

I've also heard that Southwest will refund your child's fare (at the airport) if there are open seats on the flight right before boarding. Never tried it myself, but have heard of it happening!

[dr mom]

United Airlines Flight 232, a DC-10 flying from Denver to Chicago, experienced engine failure. An emergency landing was attempted at Sioux City Iowa, during which the plane broke up. Nearly half the passengers were killed.

There were four in-lap occupants onboard flight 232. Three of them were under 24 months, and one was 26 months old.

During the preparations for the emergency landing, parents were instructed to place their "infants" on the floor and to hold them there when the parent assumed the protective brace position. The four in-lap occupants were held on the floor by adults who occupied seats 11F, 12B, 14J and 22E.

The woman in 14J stated that her son "flew up in the air" upon impact but that she was able to grab him and hold onto him.

Details of what happened to the 26-month-old child at 12B during the impact sequence are not known, but he sustained minor injuries.

The mother of the 11-month-old girl at 11F said that she had problems placing and keeping her daughter on the floor because she was screaming and trying to stand up.

The mother of the 23-month-old at 22E was worried about her son's position. She kept asking the flight attendants for more specific instructions about the brace position and her "special situation with a child on the floor."

The mothers of the infants in seats 11F and 22E were UNABLE TO HOLD ONTO THEIR INFANTS AND WERE UNABLE TO FIND THEM after the airplane impacted the ground. (Emphasis mine)

The infant originally located at 11F was rescued from the fuselage by a passenger who heard her cries and reentered the fuselage.

The infant held on the floor in front of seat 22E died of asphyxia secondary to smoke inhalation.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

Since hearing this story, I have never been able to get that image out of my mind - two frantic mothers, desperately searching in the smoke and confusion, trying to find their missing babies. Neither mother was able to find her child, and the baby who lived was saved by a good samaritan.

I guess it goes without saying that I have always bought a seat for DS, and we use his carseat on the plane.

[KAK22]

We did the "reserve" a seat with SWA. Will never do that again! We ended up paying more for DD's seat than we would have if we'd just bought her one with the Internet fare!

We always, always, always will have DD in a seat. If we can't afford it, we can't afford to go.

[kristenk]

That makes my heart hurt. :(

[mariza]

ITA, we've flown with DD several times when she was an infant and on the flights we bought our own tickets, we always bought one for her. DH's Dad and Step-Mom are retired Delta so we also did a lot of standby flying and weren't always able to get her a seat. Mostly we travelled off-peak and had good luck. I think there were only 2 flights we didn't have a seat for her.
I absolutely encourage everyone to buy a seat, I was just trying to show that even though it's safest to have a designated seat for DC, if it's not possible financially or otherwise there are things you can do to try and increase your chances.
For example, I am taking DD and DS to FL to see my brother next weekend and we only have 2 buddy passes. DD and I will have a seat, but since I don't have a pass for DS I can't be 100% positive he'll get one. Since I want to increase my chances of him having his own seat I'm coming home a day earlier than planned. Flying home from Ft. Lauderdale on Sunday *during* the Superbowl instead of Monday as planned. I figure the flight will be empty during the game and I have a good chance that DS will get his own seat.

Mariza
Mommy to my "Thing 1" DD 1/05
and "Thing 2" DS 9/06

[niccig]

THE FLOOR!! You're supposed to put you child on the floor in a crash situation, like you do your carry-on?! . That's not going to keep them safe. If more parents knew that, I wonder if they would rethink buying a seat.

[o_mom]

Just wanted to let you know that the CARES harness is now an option. It is a set of straps that fits the airplane seat. Not much to pack and much safer than just a lap belt. It is pricey, but if you absolutely can't manage a couple of lightweight carseats it might be worth it.

http://kidsflysafe.com/

[MommyAllison]

It makes my heart hurt too. :( It also makes me glad that I bought DD a ticket last night when booking our airfare. Our tax refund "fun money" will be less, but that image is so haunting.

Allison
Mama to DD 11/05

[Crunchymom]

So, so sad.

I found this regarding Flight 232 as well:

"Jan Brown Lohr - United 232's Senior Flight Attendant. She was forced by regulation to ask parents with "lap babies" (children without seats) aboard flight 232 to place their children on the cabin floor during the flight's final moments before impact. Upon impact one of four children was killed. The deceased child's mother came to her at the crash site and stated "You told me to put my baby on the floor and now he's gone." Since then, Lohr has tirelessly lobbied in Washington D.C. to promote the safety of children on all civilian aircraft and airlines, asking that federal regulations require all children to have a seatbelt on every flight."

[Crunchymom]

And lets not forget this CBS article on the subject:

The Cost of Babies Flying Gratis
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/24/earlyshow/living/ConsumerWatch/main638098.shtml

[himom]

We've always bought DS a seat and I intend to either always buy my kids seats or just not go. I've been in some nasty turbulence, once so bad that I actually caught air but was fortunately held down by my seatbelt. I can't imagine trying to hold on to a baby under those circumstances.

Also, I grew up in Hawaii and an Aloha Airlines flight from my childhood (1988) still haunts me....the front top of the plane sheared off and was completely exposed. Everybody buckled in was fine, but a flight attendant was sucked out and ended up plunging to her death. It was really awful.

The other story that got me going was from one of my uncles, who saw a beverage cart fly up in the air, hit the ceiling, and come crashing back down during major turbulence.

Factor in how uncomfortable it is to have a child in your lap in one of those tiny seats, and it becomes a no-brainer for me. We buy seats for all of us or we just don't go. This is hard, especially last year when we had sudden death in the family and had to spend a lot on last minute seats, but I think better safe than sorry.

Jodi

[kijip]

I bought Toby a ticket before he was two. And we still take him in his car seat. A big heavy old Wizard. I would not have it any other way for a number of reasons.

However, the cost of buying a ticket for some families is understandably prohibitive. Consider that the cost of not flying is often driving instead (rather than staying home.) Kids are much less safe on the road in a carseat than they are on a flight, restrained or not. We don't ask people to not drive with their kids despite the fact that it is dangerous. We simply can't be protected from every danger. We have to go back years to find cases that a carseat on an airplane may have saved a life that was lost- survivable air crashes are really very, very rare. I can't feel smug just because I can afford to fly or afford that seat for my kid to fly. I don't think he is measurably safer from the lap babies or the unrestrained toddlers. They are all safer then they would be on the road.

[Fairy]

I totally didn't remember this, but I'm so glad you posted it. The two times we've flown, we didn't hesitate to purchase a seat for DS and bring his car seat. We were renting a car on both trips, so the carseat was required, anyway, but this was a complete no-brainer for us. However, these trips were not cost-prohibitive for us to do. There are flights out there that are extremely pricey, and we're not talkin' Disney World fun time. Flights sometimes have to be taken, and when the cost of a ticket is $800, that can be an impact on a family. I don't even pretend to understand the airline industry and how flights are priced and why some seats are hundreds of dollars less just two rows away or on the flight one hour later on the same type of jet. Now, I won't go as far as to say that for a baby, the seat should be cheaper, cuz a seat is a seat. However, I do think it's way the hell past time for the airlines to provide infant and convertable seats for it's baby passengers at the very least. Also, I hope to God that the baby-on-the-floor crash position has been changed by now. Ugh!

[Melanie]

Always, but we almost never fly anywhere. I think we only flew once with Ds under 2 and once with Dd. Both times, thankfully, it was before they stopped offering the 1/2 price fares. It is still so expensive to fly with four, but like many PPers said, if we can't afford a seat for all of us, we can't afford to go.

I will say, it was really awkward with Dd RF in an RA, though. I think now, even though she's RF in the car, I would put her FF on the plane. The seats just are not suited for RF with a convertible car seat.


I just don't have the kind of luck that would allow me to think we'd ever get a free empty seat, and I don't think I've been on a plane with *any* empty seats since 9/11 and the airlines started really crunching things.

That flight attendant has a good point.

[DrSally]

That is just too sad and tragic. I would've preferred a seat for DS for convenience, but DH didn't want one for cost. This really makes me want to insist on getting him a seat from now on.

[alexsmommy]

Not that I agree with the floor thing - but I know some pilots. Here's the logic, you are supposed to be instructed to brace the child under your legs with their head between your thighs/knees. The reasoning is our legs are much, much stronger than our arms and you have a better chance of holding onto the child with your legs than your arms. To me, this logic was created by someone who has never held a frantic, scared wiggly, climbing infant/toddler. Yes, if your child would just sit on his or her tush, wrap their arms around your legs and wait indefinately in this position, this might work. Yet, I don't know a child in the world who is not going to pick up on the panic of his or her parent and the other passengers and do what comes naturally, try to get in the comfort and safety of a parents arms. Which to me could create an even more unsafe conditions as the parent is focused on trying to keep the child on the floor rather than trying to find the safest hold on the lap.
Alaina
Alex Feb '03
and #2 in early summer '07

[anamika]

Well, chalk me up as a bad mom. We flew to India and despite telling the agent to book a ticket for DD (14 months), he misunderstood and didn't. I was flying alone so I really wanted DD to have her own seat. DD thankfully, spent most of the time sleeping in the bassinet. I think she was much more comfortable in the bassinet than she would have been in her carseat. I'm not sure how safe the bassinets are but she was strapped in.

[Momof3Labs]

Is the bassinet attached to anything? I thought it just sat on the floor. I personally would put that in the same category safety-wise as lap infant (versus ticketed baby in car seat), but may be wrong.

[buddyleebaby]

The bassinet attaches to the wall. They advise you to pick the child up if the plane encounters ANY turbulence.

[Piglet]

We had the opposite explained to us - we were told that whenever the seatbelt sign was lit, the baby had to be buckled into the bassinet. The bassinet was attached to the wall, as well. This was Air Canada, so maybe different airlines do it differently.

[Piglet]

That's a really good point re: risks of driving vs. risks of flying. It is a good way to put things in perspective!

[stillplayswithbarbies]

Another reason is that if the baby/child is in your lap or held in your arms, the baby/child becomes your airbag and is crushed between you and the seat in front of you, or your chest and your legs. Assuming you are able to actually hold on to the baby/child.

[MartiesMom2B]

I asked my uncle, who is a pilot for AA, on his opinion on using a carseat RF on a plane. He told me that it is indeed safer than FF. He used flight attendants as an example and said that the RF for safety reasons too, not just to look out at the cabin. So if you can RF your seat, I would.

-Sonia
Mommy to Martie
& Li'l Girl Bunny to come Feb. 2007
http://bd.lilypie.com/Kchhm4/.png (http://lilypie.com)

[shilo]

i was going to reply to charlene with the twins and suggest the new CARES harnesses too. they are definitely an investment, but might make it possible for you to navigate your family thru the airport with a little more ease (i'm sure its still a handful tho even without carseats :)) and still give you the piece of mind that your kiddos are as safe as they can be. o-mom's already posted the link above.

hope you have a great trip!
lori
Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

[himom]

So the flight attendants are safer than the rest of us, huh? :)

Not that I'd want to fly backwards. I'd probably get sick.

[charleneand2]

Thanks so much for the CARES tip!!! I had never heard of them but I just ordered 2. I think they will be awesome! This forum is a wonderful source of information. I will report back after the trip to let you know how they work.

thanks,
Charlene and her flying twins

[kbudsberg]

It was because of this crash that the brace position for lap child was created. Before this that was what was taught to place babies on the floor, obviously that was very bad. Just like many safety things it takes death in order for a better way to come about. The one child that survived actually flew into in overhead bin and was protected by the compartment.

I was a flight attendant for 9 years and spent most of that time in management and developing flight attendant training programs. I've studied this crash very extensively and it is very, very sad but also amazing that so many people survived. Basically, the plane was unlandable. I've had the opportunity to meet and hear Al Haynes (the Capt of the flight) speak, wow! In fact the same scenrio has been programmed into simulators numerous times and no one has been able to land tha plane the way he and his crew were able to. I also was a flight attendant supervisor at United and met one of the flight attendants who worked the flight.

Even w/all my experience I have never bought a seat for my dd when she was under 2. I did always bring the carseat and always was able to use it in a spare seat for free. W/all my "inside" knowledge I feel comfortable taking that chance because it is so very small. She by far is safer in a plane unrestrained than restrained in her carseat in a car and I do that w/her almost daily.

Kim

[Melanie]

>I asked my uncle, who is a pilot for AA, on his opinion on
>using a carseat RF on a plane. He told me that it is indeed
>safer than FF. He used flight attendants as an example and
>said that the RF for safety reasons too, not just to look out
>at the cabin. So if you can RF your seat, I would.

Interesting. It was so hard, though, and since we fly cheap class it could hardly recline (no where near what is required in th car). Plus it was very difficult to get it in tightly and no where to secure the anchor.

HOnestly, airlines need to have their own infant and toddler seats on board or in terminal. You pay for the seat (and NOW full price) how much could it cost them to make some appropriate child-seats that appropriately- and strongly-connect to their own seats? Car seats are for cars, they do not work as well on planes (though better than nothing I guess).

You know, I wonder what the stats are on terrble (with some fatalities) crashes when it comes to car seats? Did they stay in place? Did THEY injure the child?

[niccig]

Virgin airlines have their own toddler seats. I saw a family using it when I flew to London last Thanksgiving. It looks like a miniature version of the normal seat and is secured with the seatbelt, and it has a 5 point harness. The family wanted to take the seat out so their daughter could lie across the seats to sleep, and the staff wouldn't do it explaining that she was too young and that they might not have the time to reinstall it if the seatbelt sign went on. I was impressed. We'll fly with them next time DS is with us and we visit family in the UK.

[DrSally]

Kim, Thanks for your insight.

[Melanie]

>Virgin airlines have their own toddler seats. I saw a family
>using it when I flew to London last Thanksgiving. It looks
>like a miniature version of the normal seat and is secured
>with the seatbelt, and it has a 5 point harness. The family
>wanted to take the seat out so their daughter could lie across
>the seats to sleep, and the staff wouldn't do it explaining
>that she was too young and that they might not have the time
>to reinstall it if the seatbelt sign went on. I was
>impressed. We'll fly with them next time DS is with us and we
>visit family in the UK.

Excellent! Now if it could just trickle down to the rest of the airlines!

[DrSally]

I really liked Virgin the one time I flew them. That is great about the seats.

[sdoyle]

Thanks for your insight, Kim. It's always nice hearing from an "expert" when things are discussed. I'd bet you have a million tricks for keeping your kiddos happy!

Stacy

[HannaAddict]

We have always bought a seat and used our car seat for air travel With my son, we were always able to get an infant fare for about 50-60% of an adult seat. On our trip a couple of weeks ago, with two children to Maui and no infant fares, we still bought them seats and used their car seats. Was it worth the $1,000 or so? Yes. Baby and toddler were more comfortable in their car seats and slept much of the flight. On the way home we hit some major turbulence out over the Pacific. The plane was dropping and shaking and I was pretty freaked out sitting next to my snugly strapped in and sleeping infant. The turbulence lasted for almost two hours, some of the worst I've experienced. (FWIW, it was completely smooth on the way over.)

If we couldn't have swung the fare for seats, we wouldn't have gone on this vacation. I know there are emergencies, but this is a priority for our family and I would be anxious if I had to fly for an emergency without a reserved seat for my child.

Kimberly

[HannaAddict]

We haven't had any problems using our RA rear facing on an airplane (Alaska and NW). It worked great actually, I think easier than installing a rear facing infant seat. My children are much more comfortable flying rear facing too, with a slight recline for sleeping. I think that FAA regs say to install the car seat the same as if you were in a car, so if still rear facing in a car, rear facing on a plane. Reclining the actual airplane seatback when you belt the car seat in, then putting the seatback into the upright position makes any install easier our experience. (A Tip from this very board!) :)

Kimberly