View on Holding Boys Back....

[jgiadrosich]

I just wanted to get various opinions on holding boys back in school, so they will be older, bigger, etc... It seems more and more people around me are doing this for various reasons. At first when I started seeing it, it was just for late summer birthdays (our school systems cut off is 9/1), but in the past week I have come across four other boys who's birthdays were in feb., march, and may and they are "doing kindergarten twice." All of their mothers
said they were at the top of their class academically, but for maturity reasons they thought they should repeat another year. My son's birthday is in April and I have never even considered doing this, even though he is immature socially, he has always been smart and very good when it comes to school work. Does anyone have an opinion on this subject? I wonder if this is more of a southern fad thing that is going on or if it is becoming prevalent all across the country. Two of my friends who have children in kindergarten this year said that half of the boys in their classes were "hold backs"...
I can understand wanting your son to be the biggest, the smartest, and very mature for his age. But at what point are you doing this for yourself if your child can educationally learn what is being taught?

[KBecks]

I'm curious about this too, and, we'll go with the flow and see how the boys are doing when they reach K age. Alek's b-day is in late Oct 04, so he will be 6 for nearly all of K and 18 for nearly all of his senior year. Alek will start K in 2010.

John was born in July 06 and he will either be one or two years behind his brother, starting K in 2011 or 2012. So we could wait an extra year if we want, I don't know yet.

[o_mom]

It is becoming more common, though usually for summer boys. I am of the opinion that they should not be held back unless there is a real need, not just social reasons. There was a recent thread on this (in the last month) in the lounge and another in the BP with links to some research.

My take on it is that not only does red-shirting not help, but can actually hurt them. Any gains seen were very small and non-existant by 3rd grade or so. Red-shirted kids were more likely to need special ed and other interventions and were more likely to be in trouble later. Basically, one of the researchers said that for years we have pushed early intervention for any problems and by red shirting you are delaying that intervention. As well, kids know when they should have started and it is hard for them to shake that feeling that they were 'held back' and the stigma that comes with it.

I would have rather had DS1 going into K when he was 5, not 6, but I don't have a choice with his birthday in our state. I know that many people feel it is better for them to be older, but my gut tells me that we are going to have problems keeping him challenged in school.

[JBaxter]

Are you judging these moms because you "THINK" they are holding these boys back for selfish reasons?

I held my oldest back because of immaturity. He is currently in 9th grade taking honors classes is about 6ft tall and 175lbs. He is a much better student and has much more confidence because he was older. If it takes one more year at home/preschool to make my child more successful I would do it ( again) in a heartbeat.

My youngest is currently attending a Montessori program his bday is 11/15 and our cut off is 9/1. If his speech and maturity does not rapidly progress I will not think twice about having him repeat kindergarten. School is to competitive to send a child who in your heart as a mother you know isn't ready ( for any reason) and then have it take them 5 grades to catch up ( not have to struggle). Nathan is in the 90% in height and weight so he would be a much bigger child. I was in no rush to send any of my boys to school. I believe in our state you dont have to send any child till the age of 7.

[stella]

After several years of consideration, I have decided to have my end-of-June boy repeat kindergarten. He will be attending a small private school where most of the current kindergarteners are a full year older than he is - since they have all been held back. So he will repeat kindergarten in the fall - as part of a class who have all (at this point) had kindergarten before.

If he would be attending the public school (another prong of endless debate), I would probably have sent him onto first grade because the kindergarteners would not be as far along as he is academically as he is (nor should they be - they are just starting kindergarten).

My reasons for doing this really center on wanting him to be on track maturity-wise when he is 12 and 13 - not just at 5. The private school's age/class makeup helped cement this decision.

I don't think it's a southern trend exclusively. I think it is happening everywhere, and it's tough because you may want to send your child on with his grade level, but the class could be full of children who were held back, and that skews the class composition.

I have mixed feelings about it, but we are going to do kindergarten twice.

[kelly ann]

My niece was helf back in Kindergarten and at the time it was a shocker to the family. However, it was the best thing for her in the long run. She had a lot of anxiety issues and the extra year gave her more confidence and greater self-esteem.

I know I saw a story a couple of years ago about an increasing % of parents in Texas holding their kids back for physical reasons though...so the kids would be larger/better when playing football. One year can make a big difference in the physical capabilities of a youth depending on when they hit puberty. So, an older 9th grader playing against a "regular-aged" 9th grader would most likely have an edge.

ETA: I would just assume that a parent knows best in these situations. Maybe there is something else going on that only the parents have insight into.

[C99]

oops

[newmomto3kids]

We are outside of Chicago and are holding back our June birthday son. He will do another year of preschool. For us, it isn't about being the biggest or the smartest, but about him reaching his full potential. He is still very immature and will likely benefit from another year to work on social skills and build confidence in his skills and decisions.
Having just started a kid in kindergarten this year, I know what the teachers expect and I know he would find it difficult to comply. Preschool will give him another year to work on those skills without being labeled as a "slow learner" or "immature" in kindergarten.
It is the right choice for us.

[megs4413]

i think there are probably good examples showing holding a child back being a benefit as well as examples of it being damaging. what really matters is what you think is best for YOUR kid!

my bro and i are july bdays and my parents chose to send us "early", for a variety of reasons...it hurt my bro and was good for me so you never really know...

[kijip]

I would not hold Toby back so he would be bigger than the other boys but I would for academic or emotional issues. However, if he gets held back he will really loom over his classmates (depending on his growth patterns in grade school) since he is already quite big for his age. From an academic perspective, I think he is going to do best with kindy at 5, even though he has a June birthday as he is already showing all of the readiness signs parents are told to look for, like ability to follow directions, sit in a circle, knowledge markers etc.

[SnuggleBuggles]

If I could have a crystal ball to prove that an extra yea rof preschool or pre-k wwould make a huge difference in his social and academic life then I would hold him back.

However, I am not going to hold my June ds back on the chance that it will make a big, impressive difference.

I also believ that he is who he is. I could hold him back and he could never become the leader or the most social of butterflies. It just may not be his personality.

This has been a huge frustration for me this year. First, I weighed out opinions IRL (from parents, educators, preschool directors, admission people at private schools). Then I researched the subject (great links on my B*thcing POst thread about this about a month ago!). Then I basically went with my gut and decided to try kindergarten rather than pre-k. ACademically I feel he is ready. Social and maturity I believ are always works in progress. And with my ds things just clikc for him and overnight you can see changes. I know that could happen anytime!

So, I made my choice. However, every other parent in my city seems to be making the choice to hold their boys out. The private school we chose to go with did not offer him a spot in k. Pre-k is full. Why no spot in even though they had room? Because the director said that next year they will be having almost all 6 year old boys and ds wouldn't be ready for it. Basically I am being penalized because I want to start ds *on time* (not early, cut off is 9/1 here). The rules of the game have been changed. If I want private school I need to hold him out a year. That leaves piblic and charter schools.

I am annoyed with the idea of having to pay for an extra yer of preschool or pre-k when he is ready for school. Yes, I could afford it but I really don't want to. That may be a selfish reason to not do that extra year if it could benefit him so greatly but it is realistic, imo.

The teachers I have talked to have said that it is getting harderto teach since you have such a wide age range inthe class. The kids are across the board on abilities and your expectations have to factor that in all the time.

I do think parents should get to choose but not the extent that it means that if I make the other choice for my ds that he won't get a spot.

I am not wild about public schools (especially mine and especially wrt to NCLB) but at least my district doesn't have the trend of holding kids out a year. He will not be the oldest and he won't be the youngest there.

A summer boy is always going to be challenging this way.

Sorrym this is a sore subject for me. I thought as the parent, who knows ds better than anyone else (though admits is not an educator though I took most all elem. ed classes and child dev. classes at university & doesn't really see ds in action in the classroom) I should get to chose. not the admission director that spends 10 minutes with him and has him do an art project "because all kids like art." Or spending 2 hours in the pre-k class with all new kids and such. I should get to make my choice for his education. Unfortunately a private school can make whatever policies they want and I am stucj with finding a back up plan.

Next time around I want to send the dc to a school with pre-k so I at least have a fall back. There is no option for ds unless we do another school for a year, which is not ideal, imo. Too much switching rather than stability.

Grr...I wish that I could just say that holding him out made sense practically for and financially for me but I just can't.

Beth

[GaPeachInCA]

Here in CA (SF Bay Area) where I live, the cutoff date is December 1st. DS will be starting kindergarten when he is 4, since he has a September birthday. I have not heard of anyone here holding their children back, only online. In fact, I know people who have had their children skip a grade. We do have a different educational atmostphere here, I think, with some of it due to cultural reasons. We have a large percentage of Asian/Indian familes.

My son is has another two years and a few months before the he will be starting kindergarten, but so far, I can't see anything that makes me think I should hold him back.

[ast96]

I have a DS with a late June birthday, so this has been a point of stress for me. In my area it is very common to hold boys back, even late spring birthdays (cut-off is 9/1). The local public school asks that every parent of a summer birthday boy call in to discuss the matter with the principal before starting K.

For a while, I didn't think it was really possible to make an individual decision for my son because it seemed like if everyone else was going to hold back summer birthday boys, he wouldn't just be young for the grade, he would be *really* young for the grade. He would be in school with boys a full year to 18 months older than he is. That would affect him not just in elementary school, but always.

But this year showed me that I could make an individual decision and that I needed to send him to K "on time." He spent pre-K4 at a private elementary school, and he was put into the class with the younger birthdays. He was the third youngest child in a pre-K of 27 kids. The first half of the year was terrible -- he had personality conflicts with his class and his teacher and it just wasn't working. So the school put him in the older class instead, where he was by far the youngest. Most of the kids were a full year older than he was. But in that class, he blossomed. He didn't have one issue and he was in groups with those kids for reading and math anyway. It was clear by the end of the year that my son needs to advance to K -- he would never survive another year of preschool, behaviorally or academically.

So it really does just depend on the child. I worried about what will happen in middle school, etc., but I can't find a perfect answer. My child is tall for his age and probably always will be with a 6'5" father and 6'7" grandfather. My main goal is for him to love school, so I have to try and make the decision that will best set him up for that. He is a social, fun kid and I am hoping that will get him through middle and high school even if he is "young" for his grades.

And quite honestly, I'm happy for him not to necessarily be driving first or whatever in high school. I can handle that. He'll survive.

You have to make the best decision for your kid based on the information you have. It's all a leap of faith, like most parenting decisions. I would ask his teachers for opinions about HIM and make your decision as late as you can.

[spanannie]

I am, with confidence, holding back my son, born in June. He is repeating Pre-K next year. I consulted with an independent learning consultant, his teachers, his OT, etc., etc., and all agree that academically he is ready for school, but he is not ready mature-wise/socially. He will be much more confident and have his strengths well-developed with an extra year of school. I have never heard of a person regretting this decision.

Oh, and I am in TX and it is very common in DS's school.

[stella]

Are you sure you're not doing it for football?
(I'm just kidding. I'm also in Texas, and if you saw my almost six years old, not yet 40 lb son, you would see why this is so funny to me!)

[spanannie]

LOL . . . my DS is 5 next month and not 40 lbs either . . . definitely not ever going to see him on the football field!

I have not yet met one person who has held back their child due to size, for sports, or otherwise, so I'm not sure where this "myth" originates. I hear the "myth" frequently, when telling people that I am holding back, but have yet to see anyone actually do it for that reason.

[bisous]

In CA the deadline for kinder is December 1st so even though I have an October boy, this is a decision I'll have to face. I've gone all around on this issue but when my DS was diagnosed with Type 1 D that was the clincher for me. I just figure I'll wait so that I can have one extra year of physical maturity to help deal with blood sugar issues. FWIW DS is extremely tall and reading already at age 3.5. BUT he gets along better with the kids that would be in the next year and falls naturally into that "group". I just feel like he will have extra challenges facing him and I would like him to be as prepared socially and emotionally as possible so that he can handle the pressure of being scrutinized for being "different" in some ways. I'm trying to minimize those issues as much as possible by giving great care and fostering positive attitudes and I really don't want to remove him from my watchful care before I absolutely have to!

Jen

Oh and BTW I happen to know somebody that actually kept their kid back because he was a late birthday so he would be better at sports. This family revolves around sports and opted to start their son, born in November, a year later. He's only 11 right now so it is too early to tell if this will propel him to super stardom in football, though, lol.

[MelissaTC]

It is definitely common around here and I am in NC. I have heard preschool programs make blanket statements that all boys with summer birthdays should do a transitional K program. Our cutoff date is Oct. 16. My DS will be 5 in June and he is going to K. I always felt that he was on level with his peers and ready to handle the new challenges of each preschool level he has attended. He is a smart little guy (very analytical and mathematical) and loves & needs the stimulation. He is also an extrovert and truly thrives off of being around other kids. At his parent/teacher conference, his teachers told me that he is ready for K and it would be a disservice to hold him back. Some kids benefit from the extra year. I was told that mine would not. We have chosen to send him to a private, Catholic elementary school and I think the smaller environment is going to be great for him. It has half the students our neighborhood elementary school has and they are not teaching to test, another pet peeve of mine.

[KBecks]

Newsweek story I heard mentioned in another thread..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14638573/site/newsweek/page/0/

Moms of school age kids, are you finding this true? Our children's librarian has been talking about k-readiness to moms of 1 year olds and I thought that was crazy, but now, maybe not so much. I've always thought that kids spend a little too much time in school to begin with, personally.

[egoldber]

Around here K is definitely the new first grade. K is where kids now learn to read. If they are not reading before first grade they are behind. Sarah is doing things in here K class that I *know* I didn't do until 1st and even 2nd grade.

I chose a small, private half day K for her, but she will be going to first grade next year. She is an August birthday (cut off is 9/30) and I agonized long and hard. Around here, it is the exception for a summer/late spring birthday boy to go on time.

[kelly ann]

Did you see the photo of the 6 year old? She is now testing above her grade after being tutored by Kumon for 2 years. Later on in the article, there was a 3 year old going to Kumon.

Is this that common? Are some parents using these tutoring services as a preschool minus the playtime and social interactions of preschool?

ETA: Or is the Kumon used to supplement preschool? I am just amazed that they offer these services to 3 and 4 year olds. I guess I never realized how early and often they are testing young kids. However, how does someone know that their 3 year old needs to go to Kumon?

[miki]

I grew up in NY and this was not done. We live in NC and people do it all the time. I think another thing that people may consider is what kindergarten is like now versus back when we were kids. I went to half day kindergarten and we were not expected to really know how to read or write (except for doing individual letters, not words) until sometime after our first grade teacher taught us. Now where I live, kindergarten is a full day and they definitely do expect kids to be reading by the end of the K year. I'd consider having my September born DD (our cutoff is Oct.) do transitional K at her preschool instead of sending her to K because her school is awesome and her experience with TK would be like my own K experience.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Luckily all of the schools we looked at for ds had the opinion that kids not be reading by the end of kindergarten but have a foundation in place. They all said that things should fall into place quickly in 1st grade.

I was looking for a kindergarten that was still developmentally oriented rather than academically oriented. Fingers crossed that ds gets into the private kindergarten for next year. This one is extremely developmentally oriented and just what I am looking for.

There was one school that did expect kids to be writing well from the start of k though.

beth

[erosenst]

In the FWIW category, my nephew lives where the cutoff is December 1; his bday is Sept 6th. He has always been tiny for his age, and socially immature, although very bright.

For a variety of reasons, including the fact that they knew that might move to a school district with an earlier cutoff, they held him back. Although he's now the oldest child in his class, he's still the smallest (at 13) - but doing well in academics, extra-curriculars, has friends, etc. And they're moving to a school district with an earlier cutoff. It was the best decision they could have made.

Interestingly, my niece will be five November 11. Had they stayed where they were, they would have put her in K - and IMHO she's not ready. I think it will end up being the best thing for her that they're moving this year, and she'll have to wait another year.

And in case anyone thinks I'm blindly for holding kids back, we have no intentions of holding DD back, although she still has 2 more year. Interestingly, a LOT of people have asked if we're going to send her a year EARLY. Nope, not doing that either lol.

[HIU8]

I live in MD where the cutoff is August 30th. DS has a November birthday, so he will be one of the older children in his class. At this point (DS is 2.5 and in preschool) I can see how this is a good idea for him socially. I think if the cutoff were still in December around here, DH and I would be choosing to hold him back, but the school system has made that decision for us.

Heather
DS 11/27/04
DD EDD 6/22/07

[ast96]

One reason why I am sending my son on to K is that at his private elementary school (where he just completed pre-K4), PRE-K4 is where children learn to read. I am not actually into pushing academics, but I liked the school when I decided to enroll him there and figured I would just see how it went. As a 4 year old, he had separate and distinct Spanish, math, reading, social studies, science, library/computer lab, music, art, and religion classes. I hated the length of the school day and how "sophisticated" it was, but he thrived and loved the academics the whole year. It was all presented age appropriately, IMO, and he just loved it.

In K at the same school, the kids have tests on fractions and spelling within the first month of school. They aren't all expected to be reading when they enter K, but they all read by the end of K (and most of his pre-K4 class is reading already anyway). I learned to read in K too, so this doesn't seem that far off for me.

[ast96]

One reason why I am sending my son on to K is that at his private elementary school (where he just completed pre-K4), PRE-K4 is where children learn to read. I am not actually into pushing academics, but I liked the school when I decided to enroll him there and figured I would just see how it went. As a 4 year old, he had separate and distinct Spanish, math, reading, social studies, science, library/computer lab, music, art, and religion classes. I hated the length of the school day and how "sophisticated" it was, but he thrived and loved the academics the whole year. It was all presented age appropriately, IMO, and he just loved it.

In K at the same school, the kids have tests on fractions and spelling within the first month of school. They aren't all expected to be reading when they enter K, but they all read by the end of K (and most of his pre-K4 class is reading already anyway). I learned to read in K too, so this doesn't seem that far off for me.

[lizamann]

What I've never understood with this whole phenomenon is why schools don't teach to the age group that fits the cutoff dates? 5 year old boys are immature, so I don't understand why 5 yr old kindy doesn't take that into account to accomodate them. We can say it's because of the higher standards required now in kindy, but why raise the standards if kindy-aged kids can't handle it? I don't get it.

[lizamann]

What I've never understood with this whole phenomenon is why schools don't teach to the age group that fits the cutoff dates? 5 year old boys are immature, so I don't understand why 5 yr old kindy doesn't take that into account to accomodate them. We can say it's because of the higher standards required now in kindy, but why raise the standards if kindy-aged kids can't handle it? I don't get it.

Around here the independent schools don't teach reading until first grade, but the publics push it earlier. Too bad I can't seem to get my daughter into one of the privates!

[SnuggleBuggles]

Very well said, imo!

There are major problems, in my mind, about k being the new first grade. And much, I think, stems from No Child Left behind and their emphasis on reading.

But, the private schools do it too. Most of them are trying to be advanced academically so I can understand their reasoning a bit more. YOu chose a private knowing they will probably move faster. Of course, my hope is that with the smaller class sizes at the private schools I considered would mean that even if things were more academic that ds would get more personal attention and instruction.

The expectations for kids is getting so out of whack.

I went back to my b*tching post vent about "redshirting" from last month and pulled up the links that Karen (Karen) posted:
http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/poptopics/redshirting.html

From that link...the teachers surveryed in there thought that 48% of kids are not ready for the kindergarten curriculum was a staggering number to me- and points to a broken k curriculum if you ask me.


At the end of that article there were these really good links too:
School Entry Age
http://www.excellence-earlychildhood.ca/documents/StipekANGxp.pdf

At What Age Should Children Enter Kindergarten? A Question for Policy Makers and Parents
http://www.srcd.org/documents/publications/SPR/spr16-2.pdf

The Pros and Cons of Holding Out
http://www.wceruw.org/news/coverStories/pros_cons_holding_out.php

An updated look at delaying kindergarten entry
http://www.journal.naeyc.org/btj/200309/DelayingKEntry.pdf

Research Link / When Children Aren't Ready for Kindergarten
http://shop.ascd.org/productdisplay.cfm?productid=103033

Children Who Enter Kindergarten Late or Repeat Kindergarten: Their Characteristics and Later School Performance:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2000/2000039.pdf

Delaying Kindergarten: Effects on Test Scores and Childcare Costs
http://www.rand.org/publications/RB/RB9082/ [Editor's note: This url has changed: http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9082/index1.html]

Study Examines Effects of Academic Redshirting
http://www.news.wisc.edu/2993.html

Unacceptable Trends in Kindergarten Entry and Placement
http://naecs.crc.uiuc.edu/position/trends2000.html

He Has a Summer Birthday: The Kindergarten Entrance Age Dilemma
http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/eecearchive/digests/1998/crosse98.html

Another Look at What Young Children Should Be Learning
http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/eecearchive/digests/1999/katzle99.html

Readiness: Children and Schools
http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/eecearchive/digests/1991/katz91.html

Assessing the Development of Preschoolers
http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/eecearchive/digests/1994/lk-ass94.html

A Developmental Approach to the Assessment of Young Children
http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/eecearchive/digests/1997/katz97.html

NCEDL Spotlight No. 3: Assessing Readiness
http://www.fpg.unc.edu/~ncedl/pages/spotlt3.cfm

ReadyWeb
http://readyweb.crc.uiuc.edu/

Exclusion and Retention: Failed Strategies
http://readyweb.crc.uiuc.edu/library/1994/sreb-gsr/excl-ret.html

Readiness for School: A Survey of State Policies and Definitions
http://ecrp.uiuc.edu/v2n2/saluja.html

National Institute for Early Education Research:
Is there a research base that can be used to inform decisions about statewide kindergarten cut-off dates?
http://nieer.org/faq/index.php?TAid=83

The Gift of Time: Enactments of Developmental Thought in Early Childhood Practice
http://ecrp.uiuc.edu/v5n1/graue.html
ERIC Resources

Beth

[masha12]

Beth, I think you made an excellent point. They should be teaching to the age range based on the cut-off dates and the fact that some parents choose to hold their kids back should not disadvantage the kids whose parents choose not to hold them back.

FWIW, a kindergarten teacher lives on my block and I had a conversation with her a few weeks ago about the trend toward holding kids back. Her response was that it really does depend on the child. She is neither categorically for it nor categorically against it. It just depends on the child. I thought that was interesting because I expected her to have strong opinion one way or the other.

[brittone2]

There is also a book that I want to read (haven't read it yet) called Better Late than Early, about the benefits of delaying academics in young kids. That also somewhat fits into my Waldorf-y mindset so maybe that's part of the appeal to me.

I'm not a fan of this early push for academic learning whatsoever. It is one of the driving reasons we want to homeschool (among several others). However, I realize that isn't practical, possible, or of interest to a lot of families, but for us, it seems like the right decision as of right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Better-Late-Than-Early-Education/dp/0883490498

I think some kids will thrive with early academics, but some kids will have trouble with it and be labeled with attention disorders, behavioral disorders, or needing special assistance, and I'm not sure right now we're able to predict who will thrive and who will not.

[KCR4]

My biggest concern is not Kindergarten - it's the milestones later in life. If I send my two July boys, they will always be the very youngest and smallest in their class (esp because I'm quite short and they likely will be too) - when they hit 6th grade middle school, and 9th grade high school, etc etc. I think the stakes are VERY high then - peer pressure can be a powerful influence and I want them to have an extra year of maturity when it comes their way. My 15 yr old niece is exposed to stuff that I didn't have to "handle" til at least I was age 17 or 18 - if then. Not to mention I get to keep my boys home for an extra year before college!

We went to a 7 yr old neighbor's birthday party in the park last weekend (late May). This boy is a "hold-back" just finishing Kindergarten at our local - and excellent - public elem school. The other Kindergarteners were HUGE! I was astonished. My 5.5 yr old looked so little and slight in comparison, and they totally ignored him to boot - they played big and rough in a way his friends just aren't doing yet (at least mostly). I can't even imagine if he had been at public Kindergarten with them this whole last year - I just don't think it would have been the right social experience - even though my son was plenty ready "academically" to have been there with them. I want my son to "fit in" with the majority better - perhaps I'm reading waaaay too much into this. But the birthday party really confirmed my decision not to have sent him last year (he continued to attend a private Montessori school.) HTH

Karen
DS #1 7/01
DS #2 10/03
DS #3 7/06

[ajmom]

This very issue was the topic I chose for my huge "review of research" paper I had to write to complete my graduate work. As an educator and the mom of a son with a mid-summer birthday, it hit a button for me.

I am by no means an expert, but I did draw some interesting conclusions:

* Boys who are "redshirted" were, by and large, on level with there peers by the end of 3rd grade.

This conclusion if fine with me. I'm not too concerned about my child being the shining academic star. I just want him to perform at the level of others in the class. So some would say redshirting does not give an academic advantage. However, would the children be at a disadvantage had they not been held back?? It's impossible to tell, but on-level for a redshirt is better than being behind for an on-time entry IN MY OPINION.

* It is truly impossible to say with any conclusive evidence WHY boys who are redshirted are more likely to need special education services. It is a good possibility that these children's parents noticed cognitive differences at an early age and simply *hope* that an extra year to "mature" will help in school, whereas what the children really needed was early intervention. Basically, these children are being held out b/c the parents are able to admit that there might be a true cognitive problem and it becomes more apparent when the child is in school.

* If the choice is between delaying entry or holding back in kindergarten, it is better to just delay entry. Students with delayed entry did not seem to face the challenges that children who are held back face.

If I can still find all my research sources, I will try to post them.

I've personally been around and around this issue in my mind for DS1. I have decided that we will delay entry. He simply is not mature enough to handle a rigorous academic setting. Even in Pre-K he has trouble "listening" and I would rather not put him in an environment where his name will be called a million times a day b/c he's doing something that he isn't supposed to be doing. Do I think he's samrt enough for K? Absolutely. Unfortunately he is immature and I think social issues are as important in school as academic ones.

[Melanie]

Without hesitation I would do it. My son is a November birthday and with our local public school cut off being December 1st he would have been expected to sit still at a desk and do academics before age 5!! NO WAY! In the end it's a non-issue as we decided on an alternative education path.

HOWEVER, if your son is right on par with things and not having any issues, (or minimal) I wouldn't mess with the route he is going. Boredom later on is not something to go without consideration.

[stella]

The later years have factored into my decision significantly, and whenI start to question my decision, this is what I come back to. I want him to have a shred of maturity when faced with all the difficult choices he will have to make as a pre-teen and adolescent.

[o_mom]

The later years actually factor in the opposite way for me. I don't want an 18 yo who can drop out of HS the first week of his senior year or sign his own sick notes.

[denna]

This may seem like a silly question to some but I think its a genuine one. My neice is 6yo and had serious social problems in Kindergarten. Through no fault of her own she was kept at home most of her young life (my sister...her mom is VERY anti-social) and never really saw any other young children. She did not know how to behave in a social environment and it was very hard for the teachers to get her to come in from recess or get her to settle down in class. My sister (her mom) was also held back in K because she cried *all* of the time and the teachers didnt feel she was mature enough.

I understand that as a whole girls are considered to be more mature than boys and maybe my sister and her daughter are rare cases but why is society as a whole focusing on boys?

If my DS is doing fine academically I will NOT hold him back. The maturity will come...and if you hold a child back, that in all aspects of education is the top of the class he will act up more because he is bored. Just my 2 cents but I started school at 4yo and graduated HS at 16yo. I was always the youngest in every grade and I didnt mind a bit. I will have to cross this bridge when I get there...but it is a very interesting topic.

I think 6-7 yo sounds too late to start a child in school. My K teacher wanted to get kids as young as 3yo because at that age they are so eager to learn.

[o_mom]

The focus is more on boys mainly because their fine motor skills and attention spans mature a little later than girls on average. This means that the standard 'sit at your desk and do worksheets' approach is going to be harder for boys.

I agree that there is a risk of them being bored later and this is my big fear with DS1. I was certainly bored and I had a late summer birthday. It took some pretty big efforts on my parent's part to keep me motivated and out of trouble through high school. It also meant that the first year of college was harder because I didn't have to study much in HS so I didn't have good study skills in place.

[ast96]

I guess the conclusion I draw is that no matter what decision you make, there are no guarantees. Sending kids "on time" doesn't necessarily ensure that they won't be bored. Holding them back doesn't mean that they will not encounter social, behavioral, or academic pitfalls (nor does it mean they will be the next Troy Aikman, right, Claire? LOL). You can have very savvy, socially confident kids who are young for their grades and kids who are old for their grades who have problems relating to their peers. I find adolescence to be one huge, scary deal and I don't think that age necessarily predicts success in those vicious social circles. After discussing all of this with my son's therapist (we both go to her -- she helps me bounce all this stuff around in my head!), her words to me were that with an involved, concerned, aware mother like me, my son will not struggle because I won't let him. I'll get him the help or guidance he needs no matter what. But I cannot make my decisions based on fear, and at this point, he definitely, definitely needs to go to K on time. Middle and high school might be hard on him here and there, but I am going to have to cross that road when I come to it.

I do think if there is any doubt in a parent's mind, holding back is the best decision to make. It is the safest one for the child and the parent. But that doesn't mean it is the best decision for every child.

[MartiesMom2B]

I'm going to send Martie to kumon at the end of this year in addition to preschool. I had to take kumon when I was little as did my brother and all of my cousins. Kumon isn't really tutoring, it's supplemental. It's like extra homework. Your child repeats problems over and over again. My mom said it was how she had to do homework in Taiwan and that she wanted us to learn math the asian way.

-Sonia
Mommy to Martie & Mei

[MartiesMom2B]

I agree with this. What concerns me as a mother of girls is having them go to high school with a bunch of 18 and 19 year old men. I've been told that seven year olds are repeating kindergarten. I hope that there are going to be girls that are held back so that the older boys will have someone their own age to date in high school.

-Sonia
Mommy to Martie & Mei

[stella]

I am a mother of a girl as well, so I can see where these concerns would come in. My son (in the current plan) would turn 18 in the summer before his senior year instead of the summer after, so he would never be 19 and in high school. I don't know when Martie's birthday is, but in the traditional/normal/when I was in school scheme, she would turn 18 sometime during her senior year.

In Wade's case only, we are talking about a summer birthday.

I can see how this "trend" skews this whole system, and I don't really know how to fix it. If no one in our new school had held their summer boys back, Wade be on track to go to first grade, but my decision has definitely been influenced by those parents' decision to hold their boys back.

I think all any of us can do (and I repeat this to myself in times of stress, okay, daily) is make the decision "one child at a time, one school year at a time."

[KCR4]

In my neighborhood, I routinely hear about how difficult and stressful 1st grade is at our local public school (widely considered to be an excellent school). I hear stories similar to that described in the article you posted - 1st graders crying about assignments, getting nervous stomachaches, very high expectations of teachers, etc. On the other hand, I hear that Kindergarten is a happy and enriching year - at least as it's been described to me. But, yes, they are definitely reading in K. However, there are not desks lined up in a row - that sort of thing - until 1st grade. K is still floor time, "centers" work, etc.

Thanks for posting the link.

[KCR4]

OK, we have totally different perspectives! As the mother of boys, I see the girls around here maturing far faster than the boys - regardless of their actual age. The 5th grade girls in my neighborhood look like teenagers - many have breasts, wear very stylish clothes, seem to have that "teenage" spirit about them in terms of social issues/cattiness, etc. The boys seem, like, well boys. So I actually wonder about my boys being around such "mature" girls! My 15-yr old niece seems so "old" to me, definitely not how I remember 9th grade. I remember being 15 years old and still feeling like a "girl." Anyway. I DO get your point - and it's true - it will start to be that the very oldest kids are mostly boys - but at least around here (Texas) it's the girls that seem "oddly mature"!

[bisous]

Whenever I talk about this subject with my mother, who taught kinder for several years, that is her response as well. She says that some late birthdays do just fine in Kinder starting at age 4 and others do much better when their parents wait.

Jen

[Bethann31]

I'm the parent of 2 high schoolers and a middle schooler. My boys will be a senior and a 7th grader last year. I didn't face this dilemma when they were younger, although reading some of these responses, I suppose I could have considered keeping Josh out, since his birthday is in March. It would have never crossed my mind, however. He had TONS of problems in elementary school and quite frankly I wasn't sure I wouldn't end up homeschooling him. No social skills at all, but brilliant. Several teachers had no idea what to do with him.

Then he hit middle school. All of a sudden he was just one fish in a great big pond and things got better. He discovered the Academic team, kayaking, and drama. He will never be an athlete, although he did play soccer and baseball when he was younger. I don't think he ever liked them much, though.

By the time he hit high school, he hit his stride. Yes, he is definitely MUCH younger than the rest of the boys in his class, but it just doesn't seem to make a difference to him. He's not the most popular kid in the school, but he has a great group of friends and one of the best technical theatre students in the state.

My daughter is 15 and going to be a sophomore. I do worry about her dating. There are many 18 year old boys in that school and it concerns me that they are interested in my "little girl." Is she mature? Heck yes. Does she have boobs and all the right curves? Yep. However, she may look this way and even feel like she knows everything, but I don't feel any more comfortable allowing her to be around Adult Men, which is what these students are, then I feel about Katherine being around adult men or even adult women I'm not familiar with.


Beth
mom to:

Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
Katherine 6/03

[cchavez]

We are strongly considering delaying entry to kinder for DS. He just turned 4 on April 29th. DS has Sensory Processing Disorder and a history of language impairment. Although, he recently graduated from a specialized preschool program b/c his lang. skills are within normal limits. He had made tons of progress b/c we provide a variety interventions but he is behind his peers socially and is definitely an anxious child that is very dependent. Although, he is probably already kinder ready as far as academics are concerned I think he needs more time to mature. We will see what happens, we still another year before we need to make our decision. But many moms of boys with lesser sensory and our social issues are holding their kids back from kinder so that is definitely influencing our decision too. I cannot imagine my socially immature 5 year old in a class full of 6 year olds boys!

[KBecks]

I don't see how there's that much difference between a 17 or 18 year old when it comes to boys being interested in girls. Maybe there's an emotional / perception difference in how you feel about them, but I'd be equally wary of ALL boys and men!! :)

[Bethann31]

You might not see the difference, but you don't have a 17 year old boy. It is not the boys being interested in girls particularly,it is also the girls being interested in boys. My daughter entered high school at 14. Even though she was not allowed to date yet, she still talked about her "boyfriend." This boy was 16, thank goodness, but it would be much more difficult had he been a senior who was conceivably almost 20 years old. All of the driving rules (under 18 kids can't drive after midnight) are gone, and while I would like to believe my children have good morals I have instilled in them, I am also not naive enough to believe that they won't do things only stupid high school kids do, because they believe themselves invincible. Somehow, it just feels better for my children to be hanging out with children their own age, but if all the boys are held back, there won't BE anyone my child's age.

I absolutely understand everyone's concerns and I share some of them, but I would like to present another scenario. What if, God forbid, your son, who was held back and started school at 6 (almost 7), still has to repeat a grade? At that point you have a child in high school that is nearly old enough to buy his friends booze. I worry that a child that is that old will have no interest in completing high school and will drop out. And, just in case anyone thinks that's a crazy idea, it happens regularly in this area. If you don't have enough credits to graduate, you just quit, rather than being in school at 19 or 20. One of my son's friends is dealing with that right now. I don't know if he will stay in school or not at this point. I know we are worried about our children long-term, but I'm dealing with both ends of the spectrum here, and I worry about both my preK daughter and my senior son.

Beth

[kransden]

Here is my .02 for what it is worth. I am teaching Art to about 500 kids a week from K-6 and 8th grades. In every class there is a smart a$$ boy or two that can't sit down or behave. That is 8 classes everyday. I usually have only 1 or 2 girls a day like that. So I have about 7 girls and 25 boys that are behavior problems. A few of the boys (~4) need medication and/or some serious help. The rest of the kids, that is just who they are. It wouldn't matter if they were held back or sent early. I would still have orange paint handprints on the bathroom walls. :) I feel it is more important that they fit in their peer group. Who does your child play with? If they feel like they belong, they will more likely be able to follow rules of the classroom and model the behavior of their peers.


Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[egoldber]

Thank you for this!!! Sarah is one of "those" girls. She has a hard time sitting still in a group setting. Some teachers (her K teacher this year for example) are very tolerant and don't let it get to them. But some of her teachers are NOT tolerant of this behavior AT ALL. I was chastized just last week by her ballet&tap teacher. *rolleyes*

I have been agonizing and agonizing on whether or not to hold her back for this. She is in a private half day K this year and I have the option of sending her to either full day K or 1st at the public school. I had her tested by the public school and she was already reading at a first grade level, so they said not to hold her back. They did indicate I should write a letter describing her personality and they would try to find a teacher who was a good fit for her.

But for Sarah, I know that she would be sooooo incredibly disappointed not to go on to first grade. She has been telling me all year (no prompting by me, all by her) that 6 year olds go to 1st grade and she will be a first grader next year. I think that for HER the emotional damage from holding her back would be worse than any (potential) advantages to getting an extra year. I have also noticed that her behavior is worse when she is bored, so sending her back to K for stuff she already knows could be a disaster.

[miki]

Interesting article in the NYT about holding kids back from K:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/magazine/03kindergarten-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all (you have to register to read but the registration is free)

[kijip]

>I agree with this. What concerns me as a mother of girls is
>having them go to high school with a bunch of 18 and 19 year
>old men. I've been told that seven year olds are repeating
>kindergarten. I hope that there are going to be girls that
>are held back so that the older boys will have someone their
>own age to date in high school.

Isn't the phrase "18 and 19 year old men" an oxymoron :P? Girls have been dating slightly older boys in high school for generations. It is not uncommon to see a sophomore girl at the senior prom but you would be hard pressed to find the other way around. Unless you are born in the summer and start kindy right after your turn 5 or you start a year early at age 4, you are always going to be 18 for at least part of your senior year of high school (assuming no grades are skipped.) Factor in that some people will be 5th year seniors or repeat a grade somewhere in the 13 years and there are going to be 18-20 year olds in most high schools quite apart form late starting boys. I do understand what you are saying though...to cope with the image of older teens dating younger teens, I foolishly choose to live in the delusion that my kids will not seriously date till college. :P

[redhookmom]

Something to consider...

Since many parents send their children to school one year late, the age demographics of first grade are really changing. So a young first grader could be going to school with children a year or older then he or she is.

In our district the school offers 3 levels of kindergarten. By the time first grade rolls around about 1/3 of the students have had 2 years of kindergarten. So that young traditionally aged first grade boy could really get lost in the mix! He could be 5 with other boys that are 7!

[SnuggleBuggles]

It made some good points. However, I am not sure how I felt about that article. It actually made me feel like a terrible mom for possibly sending my kid on time- that he would always be behind at everything because I started him at a deficit.

Of course, the article does make the point about the kids that are on the young side are more likely to be from families of lower incomes because they can't afford another year of private presechool or pre-k. So, then I wonder if it is more of a socio-economic issue than an age issue with regards to long term school success.

Thank you for sharing that article though. It is always good to really sit down and read/ consider the pros and cons from different perspectives so you can hopefully make an informed choice!

Beth

[egoldber]

The first part of the article made me doubt myself again LOL!! But I thought the second part gave a more balanced view. And I do agree with the article that if you're the kind of parent who is agonizing over this, then your kid is probably fine no matter what. :)