Need the scoop on sitting shiva

[Marisa6826]

It looks like one of Jonathan's second cousins will be passing soon. She's a lovely older woman of about 83yo who was widowed about 9 years ago. To make it even sadder, her DD died at 20yo from a sudden aneurysm in her sleep. We are kind of her only immediate family. I know she has extended cousins on both sides, but according to my FIL they aren't in the picture.

Lenore lead a tough life, but was always so very, very generous and kind to us. Her DH was my FIL's first cousin - if that makes any sense. She dedicated her life to the memory of her DD, creating a foundation in her name, along with other memorial charities.

Well, now it's soon going to be Lenore's time to join her family and (as usual) I can't get a word out of my ILs about any plans that have been set into place. I don't know why it's so damn difficult to get Jonathan's family to discuss any matters involving death, but it's seriously like pulling teeth. I think the last time Jonathan's family was involved in sitting shiva, it was for his Mother back when he was in college.

My SIL has been visiting Lenore in hospice daily, and she said that she's no longer responsive, and to expect a call sometime this week.

My questions:

I've never been involved in a true Jewish funeral save going to Lenore's DH's unveiling and another family friend's memorial service. Do I bring the kids (I'd prefer not to)? Do I wear traditional funeral clothing? What's the deal with the torn ribbon? Are we, as extended family, expected to sit the entire time, or do we just make a call? Do I bring food?

Is it kind of the same deal as a Christian service? No wake, right? Same idea of a somber, meditative environment?

Any input would be most appreciated. As I said, she was a wonderful, wonderful lady. Jonathan and I had a HUGE blowout tonight over him dragging his feet and not going to see her/call her while she's been sick (she is suffering from metastatic kidney cancer) and in hospice. To make matters worse, my FIL is the executor of her estate and informed Jonathan that Lenore has left us provisions in her will. As such, I really feel like a sh*t for not pushing Jonathan harder to accept her illness and anticipated passing.

*sigh*

Thoughts, suggestions?

TIA

-m

[gordo]

Sorry for the loss.

There is no wake for a Jewish funeral. The torn ribbon is only for immediate family members and it is to signify that they are the ones mourning. I do bring the kids when I sit Shiva, especially if it is a family member, but I don't think it is a big deal if you don't want to bring them. Traditional funeral clothing is fine.

Being second cousins, I don't think you should think you need to worry about being their the whole time (depending on how traditional they are, Shiva can last 7 days. Again depending on how religious they are, there is usually a bowl of water placed outside the house and you are supposed to pour water over your hands 3 times.

I would definitely bring some kind of food. Deli trays, fruit trays are typical. Sometimes mirrors are covered as you are not supposed to be worried about vanity. The mourners prayer will probably be said during Shiva as well and requires 10 males to say.

Hope that helps - let me know if there is anything else you want to know.

[JustMe]

I think the above post covers everything, but if you have any questions left please post them. I sat shiva for both my mother and father. It is expected that people bring food. When my mother died, I swear my father had food for a month from shiva left overs.

[elizabethkott]

Sorry for your loss.
I've only sat Shiva once for my BF's grandfather.
My BF advised me that it wasn't necessary to wear black, that "office attire" would do.
Food is a good thing to bring. I'd advise some sort of desert that has some lasting power, like a cookie tray, since many people seem to bring deli or main course type food. Cookies you can leave out for a while and not worry too much about them. I actually brought 2 of the "box of joe" from Dunkin' Donuts, and it was much appreciated.
I don't think you'd have to sit the entire time. And as for the kids - that's your personal call. The one I went to did have children, but the host provided a separate area for the kids in the basement. I could see children getting antsy very quickly, the same as at a Christian wake.
HTH. And again, so sorry for your loss.

[Marisa6826]

Well, I guess my total meltdown about his behaviour prompted J to call his family and find out more details.

It seems that there won't *be* a shiva, since there isn't an immediate family. There will be, however, some sort of a service at the cemetery chapel. I asked him about bringing the kids - get this. He said that I could wait in the car with the kids and he would go in and pay his respects. WTF?!

I told him that I would find somebody to watch the girls, even if I have to borrow are friend's au pair for a few hours and pay her.

The cemetery is somewhere out on Long Island, so it's not like it would be a quick trip. His family implored us to not go see Lenore at the hospice. That really kind of struck me as strange.

Thanks for the input.

-m

[JoyNChrist]

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry for the loss, and sorry that the family is being so weird about everything. That can't make it any easier on anyone.

[Marisa6826]

Thanks, Stacy.

To make it even *stranger*, this morning J says to me, "well, you know - if we go, it will be a whole day event". ??!!!!

I told him that I thought it was just a memorial service, but now he's saying it's a memorial, a burial and then some sort of lunch. All, about an hour from home.

I wish my ILs could get their crap together. But that's a WHOLE other issue. ;)

-m

[Fairy]

Sorry, Maris.

Ok, here's what I would do. It sounds like it's going to be all the traditional stuff of Jewish funerals, but no shiva. So, there will be a service at the funeral home first -- closed casket almost certainly. This is not likely to last more than 40 minutes to an hour.

Then there will be the burial at the cemetery. There will probably be a small packet of dirt from Israel that will be poured over the coffin (we're talking tablespoon or two). Then there will be shovels for people to shovel dirt three times over the casket. It's a way to honor the dead when you do this. Immediate family (parents, children, grandchildren) are not supposed to do it, only others; t's ceremonial. So, you could do this if you wanted. This will probably last the same amount of time.

Then it sounds like you're going back to the funeral home or to the cemetery mausoleum or chappel for a reception. This is where the "shiva" will be. It'll be much like a wake after the fact. It's a time to visit with family and be supportive and together. You may stay as long or little as you like for this. When shivas are not in homes, bringing food is tricky. I would ALWAYS bring food to a regular shiva in a home. Always. Even if it's just a meal for the person in tupperware for later, or all the way up to a tray of something. Whatever, always bring food. However for the chappel? Hmm. Find out if you can if it's catered and/or if food is taken care of. With no one to mourn in their home, the concept of bringing food is moot. If you just don't know for sure, then go to the bakery and pick up a nice coffee cake or something shareable and disposable/easy. When in doubt, the worst case scenario is you don't need it, and you spent ten bucks.

HOnestly, Maris, I'd find a sitter for the kids and not bring them. It sounds like it's all havoc over there. If this were a traditional shiva, then sure, bring them. I never vote to bring kids to an actual funeral in a funeral hom eand at a cemetery. That's just me, I never do it. No, nope, nay, no. But shiva, sure. In this case, it's a little muddled, so forget this staying in the car crap. Either you bring them and just do it, or you bite the bullet and get the sitter and don't.

Don't wear white, but no requirementn to wear black. As long as you look nice and no flip flops (ugh), I think you're fine.

-- Hil

[o_mom]

>His family implored us to not go see
>Lenore at the hospice. That really kind of struck me as
>strange.
>

This is a common reaction. Sometimes people want to "shield you from the horrors" as it were. I think if J wants to go see her he should. If he wants to remember her as she used to be that is fine to, but don't let the rest of the family decide for him.

[Marisa6826]

I spoke with my MIL (well, technically she's J's stepmother, but I digress) at length tonight.

Lenore is still hanging on by a thread. She's been in and out of a coma for days. She's not on any artificial nutrition (she has a living will), and is basically wasting away. She's not in pain, since they're managing that with medications.

The plan is to have a service at the cemetery chapel, do the burial and then have some sort of luncheon at an area restaurant in order to celebrate her life.

Lenore has lived her life with the utmost grace and dignity, and it's only right that she passes in the same manner.

I'm going to somehow find a sitter, since it's not an appropriate place for the kids. Either a friend, or if I need to, borrow a nanny for the afternoon.

So, we're now just sitting by the phone. *sigh*

Thanks for all the input and condolences.

-m