My neighbor's 4 year old son brought a pocket-knife on the school bus with him. (long)..

[gatorsmom]

My neighbor C, has 3 children, the oldest of whom is 10 and the youngest of whom is my son Gator's age, 4. I'm not always comfortable with the amount of supervision she gives her children and so avoid having Gator go to her house for playdates. Basically, the thing I think that makes me nervous, is she has always allowed her children to play unsupervised in her basement since the age of 2 and she has no problem letting them play unsupervised at other people's houses while she spends time drinking coffee with her friends. I'm not exagerating when I say that E has been in the emergency room no less than 5 times in the last 6 months for stitches. He will climb on furniture and dance and accidently fall off, cutting his head open. And although I see her about 6 or more times per year, she is always telling me a new story about what E has done. I try not to judge her and she always goes out of her way to be kind to us and all of her friends. It's just that sometimes, I think she pays more attention to her friends than she does to her own kids.

Anyway, the other day she called and started to tell me how I wouldn't believe the crazy stunt her son E pulled last week. He brought his brother's pocket knife on the school bus. Granted I'm hormonal, but I went ballistic. My little 4 year old, rides the same bus to preschool. I was very nervous about having him ride the bus to school at this age anyway, but then to hear about this just pissed me off. I started to shake and asked her how he could possibly get his hands on something like that. She said well, her older son had it in his safe and the 8 year old daughter got it out and gave it to him. Again I asked, how could he have gotten it? I guess she didn't understand because what I meant was-how could you have let this happen? Where is the supervision? I was trying not to judge her but dam* my little boy could have sat next to E on the bus and accidently been stabbed. She went on to defend herself that sometimes these things happen and it was a learning experience for her and she already feels bad enough. Then she started crying and said I shouldn't judge her.

But do you think (honest opinions sought here) I'm in the right? I would ask any mother that, it doesn't matter that she's my neighbor. Where was the supervision when she should know from past experience how curious and rambunctious E is? Shouldn't the fact that this kid is known by first name in the ER tell her that she needs to keep a closer eye on him?

I guess I should add that 3 weeks ago I relented and let Gator go to her house for a 90 minute playdate. she said they were going to have lunch and play playdoh. harmless, right? I went to pick him up and she was on the phone long distance and said she didn't want to get off but that I should come back in an hour because the boys were having so much fun. She said they were in her 10 year old's room (in the basement) and tearing it apart. Hmmm.. I said I wanted to check on Gator and sure enough. He and E were standing on a broken coffee table jumping off onto a sharp-cornered desk and off onto the sofa. E was carrying a glass snow-globe while he was jumping. They were totally unsupervised. I grabbed Gator, made some excuses and got him out of there.

So, again, do you think I had a right to say the things I did to her?
Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005
and surprise! twins due 11/07!

[SnuggleBuggles]

I saw you mention about the kids playing downstairs while she was upstairs in a recent post and thought, "Boy, I do that all the time and have for a while." But, my house sounds far, far safer and so do my friends' homes. It never worried me that ds and a friend would be up playing in his room or his friend's room while the mom and I chatted downstairs since the kids were 3.5-4 (I think that is the age we started doing this, time is a bit fuzzy).

About the pocket knife? I would be totally upset about that! Why would an 8yo even have one in the 1st place for it to get into the hands of a 4yo?? No way. There is some serious supervision missing. Maybe her older kids never got into trouble or had accidents so she has a false sense of security? maybe she just thinks these ER trips are normal and par for the course? Who knows. I know that there would be big changes if this sort of thing went on around here.

Beth

[MamaMolly]

I'm with you on this one. I know that things happen, heck I taught school for 10 years and saw some pretty odd things come into the building, but a knife? Holy crap! Even a teenie one can do serious damage.

Clearly, the older child is not mature enough to be responsible for a pocket knife. Since it is kept where the 8 year old has easy access, Mom and Dad need to confiscate it. Period, end of story. Into the trash (outside) it should go!

Sounds to me like she called you to have you tell her it wasn't a big deal and her feelings were hurt that you didn't. Tough toenails. And what is with all the whining about judging her? She already feels bad enough? It was a learning experience? What a load of baloney. What has she learned? Maybe call her and say you feel calmer now, and would like to talk about it. I would be sooooo interested to know *what* she learned from this experience.

Harumph.
Molly

[KBecks]

I think going ballistic over a pocket knife wan't quite the best way to address your concerns. :) I'm not terribly concerned about a pocket knife if it was not opened. I assume the bus driver is aware and that they're dealing with the offense.

Even if you told her gently that her children are getting hurt because she's not watching them properly, do you think it would make a difference? I kind of doubt it.

Anyway, you are pregnant and hormonal and that's a fair excuse. No more playdates, tell Gator what to do if he sees a knife or other dangerous item, be kind and try to watch out for her kids safety when its easy for you, and give your neighbor room so you both can cool off from the exchange. Let the ER staff handle the issue of her ongoing negligence.

[gatorsmom]

This whole experience has really bothered me. Every time our kids are together something happens that makes me angry because I should have known better than to get our kids together. Then I find myself furious at her because of her lack of supervision, mad at myself for trusting her again, and ticked that I have to find a way to smooth it over and make nice. But she is always calling me to do stuff together, offering to help me with the kids while I'm pregnant, bringing meals over, etc.

You are dead-on right when you say she doesn't learn from this stuff. Some of the stuff that has happened to her children would make you cringe. For example, she and her equally-clueless girlfriend took 9 children out on a pontoon boat. Her husband drove. Well, her then 7 year old daughter fell over the front of the boat and it DROVE OVER HER. If it hadn't been for her husband's quick thinking to cut the motor, the prop would have killed her. As it turns out, the prop did nick her head and she came out with a gash, but not serious enough for stitches. When her oldest son was 3 years old, he was found running down a busy street half a block away in his diaper going straight for the neighbor's pond. I wonder what she learned from those experiences.

Now the problem is I need to once again smooth things over and make nice. I think, however, I might have gone too far this time. The problem is, everything I said is exactly how I felt. Ugh. I just wish I'd kept my big mouth shut.

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005
and surprise! twins due 11/07!

[gatorsmom]

You are right that going ballistic didn't address my concerns well. Boy are you right because i made her cry and now i have a huge mess to smooth over. Any ideas what to say to make peace?

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005
and surprise! twins due 11/07!

[kijip]

>You are right that going ballistic didn't address my concerns
>well. Boy are you right because i made her cry and now i have
>a huge mess to smooth over. Any ideas what to say to make
>peace?

Maybe it did not address your concerns as well as humanly possible, but maybe that other mother needed to hear it. Judgment ain't always wrong. She screwed up big time and you know how it happened, because you know how hands off she is with her parenting. You and presumably other mamas have been aware of the situation for some time but did not say anything so as to, I assume, not interfere. It only progressed to him bringing a knife to school. Opened or not, accidents without any ill will on the part of the 4 year old, can happen. This is clearly the parent's fault. While being ballistic might not have been the best, telling her how you feel about the risk she put your family in is warranted IMO. I don't think you have anything to smooth over except to maybe say "I am sorry for yelling at you. However, I stand by my feelings of anger towards what you did. You need to be more careful." Sometimes shame is underrated- why shouldn't she know that people are angry with her for her colossal failure to supervise her kids? And its not like saying nothing has worked in the past, so perhaps it was time to say something. Don't beat yourself up for her mistake and don't feel bad for getting emotional about the situation. She is not likely to change in general but perhaps she can learn to become more careful with what she lets her preschooler leave the house with in the morning.

****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[egoldber]

I think its perfectly appropriate to apologize for hurting her feelings without apologizing for yours. You have a right to be upset.

Since this is out in the open now, I would tell her honestly next time that you are reluctant to let your child over to her house for a play date because you are concerned about his safety.

I am also of the letting my older child wander around my house and others (who are well known to me) unsupervised because I know her temperament and that she is trustworthy. But since you know her kids are not, I would say that bluntly.

[niccig]

I agree with the others. I would apologise for yelling, but I would then tell her that you were and still are angry that her son brought a knife around other children, one of whom is your child, that they were VERY lucky that no one got hurt, and that you want to know what concrete things they are doing to make sure this situation doesn't happen again. If after that you're still not happy with the supervision, I would not let Gator play over there. If the 4 yo could get to a pocket knife, what else can they get to? Are the cleaning chemicals locked up? What about guns - do they have any, are they properly secured? I grew up in a farming community, gun accidents with kids was a common occurrence, and most times one kid was showing off to their friend.

IMO, they (her and her DH) have been very irresponsible, and they may be fine to be that way with their kids, but not with other children.

It may mean you lose the help she's been giving with you, but that kind of help isn't useful - too much worry...

[bubbaray]

Regardless of whether you agree with her parenting or not, how she deals (or doesn't) with your child when he is at her place makes you uncomfortable (and, I'm right there with you, but I digress). *You* have an obligation as a parent to do what is right for your child.

Instead of blowing up or yelling at her, I think you need to tell her in very blunt terms (because obviously, she's clueless) that things aren't OK. I would say that I wasn't comfortable with the lack of supervision, the dangerous conditions, etc.. If you really want to lay it on the line, the boat incident really sums it all up, don't you think? I mean, the child could have died.

I don't think you have to make nice, make excuses or smooth things over. You are uncomfortable with the situation and shouldn't have to make apologies to anyone for parenting your child(ren) how you see fit.

Maybe you can have playdates at a public area -- playground?? That way, you can both be there to supervise.

I've had to deal with a somewhat similar situation with my ILs and their pool. They have the other GCs over for a week at a time in the summers (each child spends a week alone with the GPs). My kids are NOT going because the pool isn't fenced (the yard is, but not the pool). Period, end of story. They don't agree with me, but that's too freakin' bad. My kid, my call (well, DH gets a vote too, but he knows not to do battle with me on the pool issue).

JMHO.
Melissa

DD#1: 04/2004

DD#2: 01/2007