CD's, covers; choices and cleaning

[mudder17]

Hi!

I started a reply in the CDs vs. Disposables and then realized that I had too many questions for it to be completely on topic. So I've sort of "moved" the reply over to here and added some other questions:

>"Wow, I've been gone for 5 days and seem to have missed quite a bit. >It's been really fascinating catching up on all the posts, especially >the birth stories.

>Anyway, quick question about the BRU prefolds. I had a friend >recommend the Kushi prefolds that sell at BRU. Why are they not as >good as the CPF's? Any comments on the various brands of prefolds >out there and their pros and cons for newborns/infants?

>By the way, I should mention that I'm planning on BF, so the poopy >will probably be very runny."

Anyway, I have some other questions--forgive me if I've repeated things that have already been answered. After reading the old messages, some of my questions have been answered while others have just confused me more than ever. Can I blame the third trimester and the lack of oxygen? ;-)

Okay, the first one was the question above about the PFs. I have registered the for the Kushi prefolds that sell at BRU, but after reading the earlier reply, I'm wondering why the CPFs are so highly recommended and why PFs from BRU are generally frowned upon, especially for long-term use. Or am I misinterpreting the boards?

Second question has to do with diaper covers. Obviously with so many recommendations, I'm going to just have to try a few and see which ones work for day or night, which ones will help with the runny poop, what size my baby will be, etc. I've got a few different covers already--litewraps from the baby center, one cotton DC and one other (don't know what brands) that I got from a friend of mine, and I was planning on visiting a recommended local consignment shop to look at other kinds. Still, it sounds like Proraps and Kissaluvs size 0 is a good place to start. So that's what I'll start with. I think I'll check e-bay and see what's available. By the way, what are Snappis?

For liners, I'm planning on getting some fleece from Joanns fabric. It definitely sounds like the way to go. I'm also going to look into the microfleece topped doublers at flufymail.com, since they look like a good way to increase absorbency, especially at night.

Now for a few questions on cleaning. It sounds like a stain removal such as Dreft or Zout right before tossing the poopy diapers into the diaper pail sounds like a good thing. Is it okay to mix poopy diapers and wet diapers if you do that? Or should I have a separate pail for each? I actually have two of the Dekor Diaper Pails already, so separate pails would not be a problem.

Also, it seems that half a cup of baking soda or baking soda detergent in cold water sounds like a standard first wash for diapers, wraps, liners, wipes, etc. and all things can be mixed together for this wash. However, the second wash seems to vary. Do I wash the items separately and some on hot while others on cold? My litewraps have the instructions to wash in cold water.

The other issue is that I have a front-loading washer (Kenmore), so adding vinegar to the second wash (via the fabric softener loading area) is pretty easy. But I won't be able to do any presoaks. Has anyone had any experience washing diaper-related items with a front-loader?

The last question has to do with the pre-wash. Do all diapers, liners, doublers, covers, etc. have to be pre-washed? How many times and with what?

Sorry if these questions seem repetitive, but thanks to all of you for your support!

Eileen
Mother-to-Be in February :)

p.s. I've been having trouble posting this so please forgive me if it posts more than once.

[pritchettzoo]

>Anyway, quick question about the BRU prefolds. I had a
>friend >recommend the Kushi prefolds that sell at BRU. Why
>are they not as >good as the CPF's? Any comments on the
>various brands of prefolds >out there and their pros and cons
>for newborns/infants?

I have never used the Kushi prefolds, but I can't imagine that they are as soft and fluffy as the ones you can get elsewhere. I got regular bleached prefolds from www.naturalbabies.com that I use as backups and for burp cloths. Other moms use them all the time, and can probably tell you which exactly are the best. There are Chinese prefolds, European prefolds, and Australian prefolds--all different for the type of cotton used and slightly different sizing. Mine are CPFs. Also, some moms prefer the unbleached prefolds. You could do a search on "bleached unbleached" or some such to see multitudes of threads on this. To be more confusing, there are hemp prefolds too! Once you decide what kind of material, then you pick a size. Whew. The infant ones are smaller than the regulars which are smaller than the premiums. I think putting premiums on a newborn would be too large, but some people use the regulars and skip the infants. I personally got the infant size because they make a good burp cloth/dust rag size, and I don't use them unless I've been really slack about washing. This site is helpful on prefolds: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kfegelman/siteindex.html

>>By the way, I should mention that I'm planning on BF, so the
>poopy >will probably be very runny."

Then get lots of covers! Poo goes everywhere in a prefold. I think using a Snappi helps hold the diaper tight and keep the poo better contained.

>Anyway, I have some other questions--forgive me if I've
>repeated things that have already been answered. After
>reading the old messages, some of my questions have been
>answered while others have just confused me more than ever.
>Can I blame the third trimester and the lack of oxygen? ;-)

Of course! :)

>Okay, the first one was the question above about the PFs. I
>have registered the for the Kushi prefolds that sell at BRU,
>but after reading the earlier reply, I'm wondering why the
>CPFs are so highly recommended and why PFs from BRU are
>generally frowned upon, especially for long-term use. Or am I
>misinterpreting the boards?

Nope. See above.

>Second question has to do with diaper covers. Obviously with
>so many recommendations, I'm going to just have to try a few
>and see which ones work for day or night, which ones will help
>with the runny poop, what size my baby will be, etc. I've got
>a few different covers already--litewraps from the baby
>center, one cotton DC and one other (don't know what brands)
>that I got from a friend of mine, and I was planning on
>visiting a recommended local consignment shop to look at other
>kinds. Still, it sounds like Proraps and Kissaluvs size 0 is
>a good place to start. So that's what I'll start with. I
>think I'll check e-bay and see what's available. By the way,
>what are Snappis?

For BF poop, proraps are the best! They keep everything inside. Liya recommends Green Earth wraps as an alternative to proraps--they have similar design but aren't plastic-y feeling on the inside. I've never used them. You can get prorap seconds but Karen (I think it was Karen) found a place that had "firsts" almost as cheap as the seconds if you bought six!

Snappis are y-shaped closure thingies to hold a prefold together--an alternative to pins. You can see a picture of one at www.naturalbabies.com under "Diapering accessories."

>For liners, I'm planning on getting some fleece from Joanns
>fabric. It definitely sounds like the way to go. I'm also
>going to look into the microfleece topped doublers at
>flufymail.com, since they look like a good way to increase
>absorbency, especially at night.
>
>Now for a few questions on cleaning. It sounds like a stain
>removal such as Dreft or Zout right before tossing the poopy
>diapers into the diaper pail sounds like a good thing. Is it
>okay to mix poopy diapers and wet diapers if you do that? Or
>should I have a separate pail for each? I actually have two
>of the Dekor Diaper Pails already, so separate pails would not
>be a problem.

I throw everything in together. You'll be surprised that everything comes out, but newborn BF poo does. I only spray the covers with Zout if it's still stained after my cold/baking soda wash. Otherwise you'll be buying stock in Zout. Also, many people recommend laying the wet diaper in the sun to get the stains out. I will probably worry about that when it comes time to pack them away, but I don't care if the inside of the diaper is stained right now.

>Also, it seems that half a cup of baking soda or baking soda
>detergent in cold water sounds like a standard first wash for
>diapers, wraps, liners, wipes, etc. and all things can be
>mixed together for this wash. However, the second wash seems
>to vary. Do I wash the items separately and some on hot while
>others on cold? My litewraps have the instructions to wash in
>cold water.

Well, having to wash those wraps separately is going to be a PITA. Proraps can be washed on hot, as can Nikkys (up to 120 degrees for them). I don't know about Green Earth. I personally wouldn't use newborn wraps with prefolds if I had to wash the wraps separately.

>The other issue is that I have a front-loading washer
>(Kenmore), so adding vinegar to the second wash (via the
>fabric softener loading area) is pretty easy. But I won't be
>able to do any presoaks. Has anyone had any experience
>washing diaper-related items with a front-loader?

I have a front-loading Whirlpool. I do a "quick wash" on the cotton/sturdy setting with cold and baking soda. Then I do a "heavy soil" wash on cotton/sturdy with a wee bit of Costco brand Tide. Just a very wee bit though!

>The last question has to do with the pre-wash. Do all
>diapers, liners, doublers, covers, etc. have to be pre-washed?
> How many times and with what?

Yes. As far how many times, it depends on what you get. The diapers should come with directions or have them on the site. Unbleached prefolds require more breaking in than bleached. I think boiling is recommended with hemp, but I've never done that!

>Sorry if these questions seem repetitive, but thanks to all
>of you for your support!

You're welcome. What I did to prepare for CDing was to read through all the old posts. I started at page one and just started going back. I totally remember the 3rd trimester lack of brain power though. I think reading everything really helped me! Have fun with your research and preparations!

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[parkersmama]

The prefolds from BRU and similar places are just not anywhere near as absorbant as the CPFs and others (European, etc). If you get an opportunity to compare the two, you'll see why: the fibers of a CPF are very dense and tight; the fibers on a BRU prefold are more loose and visible. This is sort of like checking threadcount on bedsheets: the denser and more threads per square inch, the better and hence more absorbant they are!

Kissaluv size 0 are terrific! I used them and CPFs with prorap covers when Amy Grace was a newborn. I really experienced no leaks with this system. As far as liners go, I would skip them until you start solids. BF poop is so runny that it goes through the liners and still gets on the diaper. Also, since BF poop can just be thrown in the washer, there's no big need to keep it off the diaper. I usually sprayed poopy diapers with Zout before putting them in the pail. I put all diapers in together in one (dry) pail including soiled covers. I don't use baking soda in the wash or any soaks. Just a long, hot wash with a small amount of Tide and then another cold wash with no detergent and two rinses. I wash it all together (both hot and cold) and then take out PUL items (covers, FBs, pail liner) before drying them.

I have a top-loading washer so I'm no help there! Sorry!

[mudder17]

Wow! What a helpful answer--I actually printed it out for future reference. :) I think I will definitely look at the CPFs. When you said that you use the prefolds as back-ups, does this mean that you tend to use only fitted diapers? Do you ever use prefolds inside fitted diapers and then add a diaper cover (like for night-time)? Or will the bulkiness end up causing leaks?

Anyway, I was looking at the Kissaluv 0's and discovered that Kissaluv now makes contour diapers, which they say is an economical alternative to the fitted. Does anyone have any experience with those? I was thinking that perhaps I could get three or so fitteds for night-time and then get a dozen of the contour. If I used the contour, would I have to add a pre-fold for extra absorbency and then put a diaper cover on?

When I initially read that CD'ing could be fun, I wasn't sure what people were talking about, but doing this research and looking at all the very cute things out there, I'm starting to have a lot of fun! Yes, diapering is probably never going to be considered a "rip-roaring good time", probably because of the mess, but CD'ing sounds like a lot more fun than 'sposies and the support of everyone around here will be a tremendous help. :)


Eileen
Mother-to-Be :)

[Momof3Labs]

A prefold inside of a fitted (or a contour) will be way too bulky, especially for a newborn (it's even way to bulky for my toddler). There are doublers that you can get to add absorbency, and they are much trimmer than a prefold. But cross that bridge when you come to it - on a newborn, absorbency isn't as big of an issue (since you change them so often) as poop containment.

Contour diapers won't hold in your bf'd baby poop; there is no elastic at the legs so it runs out and everywhere. You might as well use prefolds then. Also, three fitteds for nighttime isn't enough for a newborn - you'll be changing 3-6 or more times during the night at the beginning (at least once, if not twice, at every feeding since bf'd babies like to poop while feeding, sometimes more than once).

ETA: My wash routine is similar to Denise's, but I do two hot washes (the first with detergent). No baking soda, no presoaks. And I wash everything (except fleece and wool) together.

Also, regarding Amy's comment about just a smidge of detergent - it depends on your water. Soft water requires just a smidge, hard water requires more than that or you won't get your diapers clean!

[lisajane]

Is it true that BF poop can go straight into the pail then the washer--no need to dump into the toilet? Is it just totally runnier than I'm imagining?

And yes, it is fun reading through all these posts. Much more fun than hearing everyone I know (except my DH) say "Cloth Diapering? We'll see how long that lasts...."

[mommyj]

I've been out of town, so I didn't read your earlier posts. I've CDed ever since we brought DS home from the hospital, and it's been great so far (he'll be 6 months in January). Anyway, here are my thoughts...



>Anyway, quick question about the BRU prefolds. I had a friend >recommend the Kushi prefolds that sell at BRU. Why are they not as >good as the CPF's? Any comments on the various brands of prefolds >out there and their pros and cons for newborns/infants?
I would go with CPFs. I like the unbleached ones, because they're
softer. I had 30 for the newborn phase, which I used along with
12 Kissaluvs. This was a great newborn system. I used CPFs most
of the time, but I liked the Kissaluvs fitteds for late night
changes. I always snappi DS' CPFs, since he's exclusively BFed,
and the snappi keeps poo from getting all over the covers.

Anyway, I have some other questions--forgive me if I've repeated things that have already been answered. After reading the old messages, some of my questions have been answered while others have just confused me more than ever. Can I blame the third trimester and the lack of oxygen? ;-)
The confusion is totally normal :) Don't worry. CDing is actually
quite simple once you get started, but all the info can seem
overwhelming at first. I remember my brain hurt from reading so
much info, and I finally just ordered my dipes so I could quit
worrying about what to order. I think it's better to start out
simple, since you can always try stuff later.

Okay, the first one was the question above about the PFs. I have registered the for the Kushi prefolds that sell at BRU, but after reading the earlier reply, I'm wondering why the CPFs are so highly recommended and why PFs from BRU are generally frowned upon, especially for long-term use. Or am I misinterpreting the boards?
I would go with CPFs, just because they seem to get the most
positive reviews. I've found that if most people recommend one
type of diaper, there's usually a good reason. CPFs hold up
well.


Second question has to do with diaper covers. Obviously with so many recommendations, I'm going to just have to try a few and see which ones work for day or night, which ones will help with the runny poop, what size my baby will be, etc. I've got a few different covers already--litewraps from the baby center, one cotton DC and one other (don't know what brands) that I got from a friend of mine, and I was planning on visiting a recommended local consignment shop to look at other kinds. Still, it sounds like Proraps and Kissaluvs size 0 is a good place to start. So that's what I'll start with. I think I'll check e-bay and see what's available. By the way, what are Snappis?
Instead of Ebay, you might want to buy seconds from the Kissaluvs
outlet (on their website). The prices on the seconds are usually
pretty close to what you would pay on Ebay. I bought 12 Size 0
seconds for DS, and they worked great. I think they were seconds
because the snaps placement was slightly off, but it didn't affect
their performance at all.
I think your idea to try a few different covers is a good one.
While a lot of moms love proraps, they didn't work for us at
all. DS has sensitive skin, so Bummis whisper pants (the pull
on nylon ones) were the only ones that didn't leave red marks
on his skin when he was a newborn. Those are still my favorite
cover.

For liners, I'm planning on getting some fleece from Joanns fabric. It definitely sounds like the way to go. I'm also going to look into the microfleece topped doublers at flufymail.com, since they look like a good way to increase absorbency, especially at night.
Good idea. Just in case none of the threads you've read mentioned
this, be sure you get microfleece and not the windro fleece that
is waterproof. You probably won't need doublers for the first 2
months or so, but you could always order them and use them as a
pattern for the fleece liners. That's what I did.

Now for a few questions on cleaning. It sounds like a stain removal such as Dreft or Zout right before tossing the poopy diapers into the diaper pail sounds like a good thing. Is it okay to mix poopy diapers and wet diapers if you do that? Or should I have a separate pail for each? I actually have two of the Dekor Diaper Pails already, so separate pails would not be a problem.
I used Zout, but it caused build up on my dipes really quickly,
so I decided to quit using it. I would highly recommend getting a
mini-shower. It's a sprayer that attaches to your toilet. It
sprays the poo right off the dipes, so you don't have to dunk
them in the toilet. You can order them at naturalbabies.com,
which is also a great place to order CPFs and covers. I swear I
might have gone nuts without a mini-shower because DS poos all
the time.
The sun is great for stain removal. I was really worried about
stains at first, but after the Zout disaster, I decided not to
worry about stains. They usually wash out after a few washes,
and if they don't, I can always stick the dipe in the sun for a
few hours.

Also, it seems that half a cup of baking soda or baking soda detergent in cold water sounds like a standard first wash for diapers, wraps, liners, wipes, etc. and all things can be mixed together for this wash. However, the second wash seems to vary. Do I wash the items separately and some on hot while others on cold? My litewraps have the instructions to wash in cold water.
I was my dipes and covers separately, since the covers I have
can't be washed on hot. I actually wash the covers with our
clothes, since they hardly ever have any poo on them (and when
they do, I spray it off with the mini-shower). I wash my dipes,
wipes, and liners together. Everyone's wash routine is different,
and you'll fiture out which once you get started. This is the one
that works best for me:
1 wash on hot with 1/3 amount of recommended detergent (I live
in an area with soft water, so I use less detergent)
1 wash on cold with no detergent
I like this routine because it's simple, and I haven't had
problems with build up since I started it.



The other issue is that I have a front-loading washer (Kenmore), so adding vinegar to the second wash (via the fabric softener loading area) is pretty easy. But I won't be able to do any presoaks. Has anyone had any experience washing diaper-related items with a front-loader?
Sorry! I don't have front-loading washer.
The last question has to do with the pre-wash. Do all diapers, liners, doublers, covers, etc. have to be pre-washed? How many times and with what?
No. I never do a prewash. I just do my 2 washes, and that works great.

Sorry if these questions seem repetitive, but thanks to all of you for your support!

Eileen
Mother-to-Be in February :)

p.s. I've been having trouble posting this so please forgive me if it posts more than once

HTH!

[pritchettzoo]

Yes, that's true. I've only gotten enough once to dump into the toilet and it was really pouring, not dumping. I think every baby's consistency is slightly different, but DD's is eerily reminiscent of liquified banana. Mmmm...don't you want to go make banana bread now? :P

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[pritchettzoo]

I suggested cutting WAY back on detergent for the front-loader as well as for concerns about build-up on the diapers. You don't have to buy the higher-priced "HE" detergents; you can just cut back on the amount you use of the regular stuff. If you see bubbles in the area around the tub after the detergent wash, you've used too much.

And I completely agree about the contoured Kissaluvs--go ahead and get the fitteds. I think the difference is only $3 a diaper, and it's completely worth it.

HTH!

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[mudder17]

Denise,

>Kissaluv size 0 are terrific! I used them and CPFs with
>prorap covers when Amy Grace was a newborn. I really
>experienced no leaks with this system.

Okay, so prorap covers can go over both the fitted Kissaluvs as well as the CPFs? While all babies are different in terms of size and shape, any suggestions on what size and how many of each of the prorap covers I would need to begin with? I've ordered a dozen Kissaluvs and am planning on ordering maybe 30 infant CPFs. I think this will allow me to do diaper laundry every 2-3 days. Based on an earlier post, it sounds like the mothers here have anywhere from 4-12 covers.

One of the websites that sell the proraps (I think it was dy-dee.com) showed how you use them by putting in the CPF first and then putting it on the baby at once. Is there a different procedure if you use the fitteds? Do you put the fitted on first and then put the wrap on?

Wow, I'm really looking forward to trying all this out. Oh, and based on many of the posts, I've decided to order a variety of cloth wipes from darlingdiaper.com. They're so cute, I can't wait to see them! :)

Eileen
Mother-to-Be in February :)

[mudder17]

>I would go with CPFs. I like the unbleached ones, because
>they're softer. I had 30 for the newborn phase, which I used
>along with 12 Kissaluvs. This was a great newborn system. I used
>CPFs most of the time, but I liked the Kissaluvs fitteds for late
>night changes. I always snappi DS' CPFs, since he's exclusively
>BFed, and the snappi keeps poo from getting all over the
>covers.
Ah! You just answered one of my questions! I will get a couple of snappis for the CPFs. And, I was thinking that 15 CPFs might be enough to get started (along with the 12 Kissaluvs), but now that I think about it, my friend told me that the babies go through about 15 diapers a day, so if I don't want to do the laundry every day (I was thinkin maybe every 2-3 days), then I will probably need around 30. I guess some mothers here prefer the bleached ones while others prefer the unbleached ones with the reasons being higher absorbency or greater softness? Perhaps I should try half and half?

>Instead of Ebay, you might want to buy seconds from the Kissaluvs
>outlet (on their website). The prices on the seconds are usually
>pretty close to what you would pay on Ebay. I bought 12 Size 0
>seconds for DS, and they worked great. I think they were seconds
>because the snaps placement was slightly off, but it didn't affect
>their performance at all.
Thanks for the heads-up on the outlet. I had seen them, but wasn't sure if I should get them. But the site claimed that the seconds would still work just fine, and with your recommendation, I've decided to order a dozen of them. I really don't mind some uneven stitching or slightly off snap placements.

>I think your idea to try a few different covers is a good one.
>While a lot of moms love proraps, they didn't work for us at
>all. DS has sensitive skin, so Bummis whisper pants (the pull
>on nylon ones) were the only ones that didn't leave red marks
>on his skin when he was a newborn. Those are still my favorite
>cover.
Very good point. Just in case I love a particular diaper cover, I'm thinking of maybe getting 1 or 2 of the proraps, and maybe 1 or 2 of the ME (both recommended for BF babes). I already have one cotton one and a few of the litewraps, so I think I have enough to experiment with and give me a place to start.

>I used Zout, but it caused build up on my dipes really
>quickly, so I decided to quit using it. I would highly recommend
>getting a mini-shower. It's a sprayer that attaches to your toilet.
>It sprays the poo right off the dipes, so you don't have to
>dunk them in the toilet. You can order them at naturalbabies.com,
>which is also a great place to order CPFs and covers. I swear I
>might have gone nuts without a mini-shower because DS poos all
>the time.
Several mothers have mentioned build-up with stuff like Zout or Dreft. It seems that using the stain removal only after the cold wash on tougher stains seems to reduce the problem of build-up. We purchased the Little Squirt Sprayer last month, based on a recommendation by Baby Bargains. Based on their recommmendation and yours, I'm doubly glad we decided to invest in one. Still, I wish I had known about the one being sold at naturalbabies.com--they're $15 cheaper! Anyway, glad to know that the mini-shower was not a waste of $$.

>HTH!
Most definitely! Thanks for your thoughts.

Eileen
Mother-to-Be :)

[Momof3Labs]

>I suggested cutting WAY back on detergent for the
>front-loader as well as for concerns about build-up on the
>diapers.

I agree with that, but I'm just saying that a smidge of detergent isn't enough if you have hard water (like we do), no matter what type of washer you have. A smidge of detergent in hard water will not get diapers clean, which also causes a stink problem. It is a delicate balance between too much detergent (and build-up) and too little detergent (and unclean diapers) - and water type is just another factor to consider.

[parkersmama]

Yes, the proraps will work with both Kissaluvs and CPFs. I believe that I had 12 Kissluvs 0s and 24 CPFs (infant size). I also had 6 MotherEase Sandy's. They are side-snapping and I had size small which were a little bulky until about 1 month old (and Amy Grace was over 9lbs at birth!). I had probably 8 covers all told. I only had 4 proraps and I ended up liking them the best so they were in heavy rotation! :) A total of 8 covers was plenty for us and I do laundry pretty much every other day.

For a fitted (like Kissaluvs), you put it on first and get it all snapped, then put on the cover over it. Make sure that all parts of the fitted are covered by the cover and tuck in any bits that have escaped. If you have any diaper left uncovered, the moisture will wick and the baby's clothing will get wet at those spots.

With CPFs, I almost always use a snappi. My reasons are: it helps secure the diaper and keep it from slipping around in the cover, it helps contain the bfed poop better, and it just gives a better fitting, less bulky diaper. I found that just laying the CPF in the cover (like many people are *very* happy with!) just didn't work for me. I could never keep it all in place and put her down on top of it. It would get all messed up and I (and she) ended up frustrated. So, I use either an angel fold or a bikini twist fold and use the snappi. The upside of that is that it helps with poop containment some and I almost never had poop on the covers! Certainly not with every change like some people mention. She might have pooped on one cover each day but the other times it was all in the diaper and the cover was reusable. Also, using a snappi seems to give a trimmer fit. Snappi use is sort of a learned art so you have to have some patience but it's easier to learn on a newborn than a wiggly older baby! It only took me a day or so to get the hang of it. I actually practiced on a teddy bear before my baby's arrival and that helped! :)

I love the wipes from Darling Diapers! They are definitely my faves! I've gotten some others as freebies when I've ordered diapers from other sites but they aren't nearly as nice. The double-sides are superior and really good at getting it all cleaned up. I particularly like the velour. And the cuteness is a definite plus! :)