received a wool cover, Jesus propoganda in package (no joke)

[knaidel]

I received a wool cover in the mail today. I opened it up, and out came the cover, an invoice, instructions and a flyer entitled "Finding your Way Home," which uses the film "Finding Nemo" as a metaphor to understanding Jesus. There is a short prayer, an affirmation that "I just prayed to accept Jesus as my savior."

Umm.. guess what? I don't really appreciate recieving this type of literature with my diapers. I'm all for organized religion, I just don't appreciate this sort of missionizing. Actually, I find it offensive. I didn't ask for this WAHM's help "in finding my way home."

I have half a mind to return the cover. And to post reviews on MDC, the Diaper Pin, etc.. of this WAHM's "service." Okay, maybe that's going a little far, but I'm pretty ticked.

Am I over-reacting? Please let me know what you all think.

[rrosen]

Nope. That would bother me quite a bit.
I don't think I would post a review about it but, it would certainly prevent me from being a repeat customer.

[todzwife]

WOW! I'd be ticked too! Please please leave a review...Contact that WAHM and tell her that it is innapropriate to mix business w/religion. Sheesh.

[nitaghei]

Well - I'd be upset, too. But I'd contact the WAHM privately, and politely point out that the insert was thoughtless and unprofessional, and how upsetting you found it, before posting public reviews.

FWIW.

Nita
mom to Neel, January 2003
dog mom to a PWD and a cocker(at the Rainbow Bridge)

[mommyj_2]

I also agree this is way out of line. I would probably be tempted to return the cover, since that's probably the only way the WAHM will get the message that it's not okay to mix business and religion, esepcially if she doesn't let her customers know ahead of time. I would also want to remind her that part of the reason many people choose cloth is because they're into reducing the amount of waste we produce, and that her pamphlets are creating more paper waste. If she wants to promote religion as part of what she does, she could always include the same info on her site. That would reach more people anyway.

[papal]

Yeah... I would be ticked too. I would email her and tell her how you feel and if she apologizes, then keep the cover.. if she doesn't, i would tell her she is unprofessional imo and i don't want to do business with her.
grr. yes, i could just throw the piece of paper away but still.. it is annoying!

[searchdog]

I don't think it is really appropriate, but I would not write about it in a review, I would just contact the wahm personally and let her know your feelings.

I also don't think it would stop me from buying something from her in the future either.

[omgrown]

Oh boy, that's a tough one. I would probably contact her and let her know what I thought, but at the same time, I roll my eyes at that kind of stuff because for people that truly "believe" (i don't mean to infer that they don't, just that that's their phrase) they usually think they are doing you a favor by helping you to be saved or "find your way home". DH's grandma sends us stuff like that all the time, even going as far to send DS a Bible board book (he's 6 mos old!) and we are NOT "believers". But I digress, No, I don't think you're overreacting at all, just don't be surprised if the WAHM doesn't see the problem with it.
Let us know what happens!

[Saartje]

I'd really like to know who sent you that, Rachel, so I know who not to order from. It's a personal preference of mine that people who are going to send out such pamphlets not have my address.

[mudder17]

I actually know who this is, and when I saw it, I just shrugged my shoulders, but it didn't bother me. I don't think she should be mixing business with religion, so I do think you should contact her privately and let her know it's inappropriate, but I wouldn't post a review about it.


Eileen

Mother of Beautiful Kaya, www.chemicalgraphics.com/kaya
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040222/0/0/1/-5/.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif , 13 months & counting
Kaya's cousin, due October 9th!!!

[nohomama]

Unlike other people I don't think it's inappropriate to leave feedback publically about your experience. It's a curtesey to contact the WAHM before you do so but it isn't necessary. She didn't do you the curtesey of consulting you before sending you religious propaganda, did she? And though you feel pretty emotionally charged right now, there's no reason that your feedback has to be. I would just simply say that this particular WAHM includes religious material with her orders, that you personally find such proselytyzing offensive, and that regardless of how wonderful her products might be, you don't feel comfortable doing business with her. That's pretty "just the facts, mame." It stays within the realm of your experience and refrains from any kind of personal attack. People may or may not agree with you but regardless, it's hard to find fault with a dispassionate review like that.

And for what it's worth, I don't think you are overreacting.

[pritchettzoo]

If you order from I Love Jesus Diapers dot com, you should expect some evangelism, kwim? But unless you had a warning from her website that the literature would be coming, I would definitely contact her and leave reviews based on her response.

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03)
and a BOY! (coming July '05)

[psophia17]

I detest getting religion heaved at me, in any which way, shape, or form, and I would make a point of not ordering from somewhere I knew it would come from. I would never in a million years try to forcefeed my religion to someone else, although discussion is always okay, and to have someone try and forcefeed it to me is both offensive and ignorant, IMHO.

If there was info available warning me that I would be preached at by a company, WAHM or otherwise, I would be grateful that I could avoid that place.

[nohomama]

I've been thinking about this more and I'm wondering what those of you who feel that Rachel should contact the WAHM before leaving feedback in public forums think that doing so will accomplish? In my experience, albeit limited, those Christian denominations that make a practice of envangelizing to others regardless of faith, ethnicity, etc.. do so because it is part of their "mission." In their view, whether someone is offended by their actions is irrelevant. They view their mission as having a "higher purpose" that is above the feelings of those they are proselytyzing to.

[kthomp]

I think you have every right to be upset, I know I would be. More or less them sending you this literature is no different from someone showing up at your door and preaching to you. Except that when they are at your door, you know and you don't have to open it and listen!

I agree with Sarah, it might not do any good to talk to the WAHM about it. She might believe she was "saving" you and your family by sending you the flyer. It doesn't make her a bad person or anything, but if I was a potential customer, I would want to know to about it. I would contact her, but I would also leave non-rude feedback about it, just to let other people be informed and decide for themselves.

Being nosey here, but I am also interested to know where you ordered from. ;)

[knaidel]

First off, I was cracking up when I read Anna's post- I love jesus diapers.com My husband (an ordained rabbi) said with wide eyes, "Is there really such a site?"
Well, the drama has ended. For now. Here's a copy of the email I sent to her.

Dear XXX,
> I received my beautiful wool diaper cover today. The
> workmanship appears to be really professional and the
> The orange is a really cute color.
> However, I noticed that you enclosed a pamphlet
> entitled "Finding Your Way Home," with my purchase. I was
> a bit surprised to find this unsoliticed material.
> Actually, I found it offensive and I think it shows a
> lack of respect towards your customers' various
> religious beliefs, including my own. In the future, I
> would appreciate it if you'd leave such material out
> of my order.
>
> Thank you very much.
> Rachel Lewin

Here was her response:

"Hi Rachel,

I am very sorry if I insulted you, as that was not my intention at all. Please accept my heart felt apology and promise that it will not happen again. I do hope to see you back in the future. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. Enjoy the cover."

Anyway, I think that Sarah (nohomama) is correct. She obviously thinks she is doing me a great service- it's her mission. I can't really imagine that my letter is going to make her change her practices. I am keeping the cover, for a few reasons. Mainly because she did reply to me (ALthough I was hoping for a freebie :)). Also its only a few days before Passover and I have a lot of work- both holiday related and not- and taking N.T. to the ped tommorrow, so I don't feel like going to the P.O. Anyone in the Chicago area want to come to our seder first night of passover? No prosteletyzing, I promise:).
In terms of a review: first off, I'll only bother to post a review if the cover works well. I might write something along the lines of,"This is a great cover, blah, blah,blah. The owner includes a pamphlet of religious nature with each order, so ask her not to if it offends you." Just as a public service announcement.
Sigh. I think the thing that bothers me the most is that the pamphlet that came to my house is just a little bit, well, invasive. It bothers me. My house is my domain and I don't want this here. I didn't ask for it! You know, I noticed that on one WAHM diaper website, the owner writes, "Discount to missionaries." So wonderful, she's supports what's important to her...but she doesn't include an envelope to send your donation in with every order!

[rrosen]

Rachel,
I think you handled this issue beautifully. Congratulations on not ignoring your feelings about this. I am sometimes guilty of avoiding uncomfortable situations like this and letting them eat at me instead.
I am truly impressed with how you dealt with this very sticky situation.

[mudder17]

Wow, I'm impressed with how you handled it! I do understand how you feel about the whole thing being invasive (I'd feel uncomfortable with the religious pamphlets of other religions in my house, unless I was researching one of them--but in that case I'd be asking for it).

As for the review, I am curious how you'll end up liking the cover. :)

And I'm no longer in the Chicago area, but I did grow up in Roger's Park and do miss it. Can I wish you a good passover anyway?

Thanks for posting the update and her answer!

Eileen

Mother of Beautiful Kaya, www.chemicalgraphics.com/kaya
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040222/0/0/1/-5/.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif , 13 months & counting
Kaya's cousin, due October 9th!!!

[tbriese]

i consider myself a Christian and we are called to witness to those around us and spread the news of God's grace. However, i only remember stories of Jesus setting up "shop" and letting people seek him out. i don't recall any stories about Jesus going out and hitting people over the head with His message. I'm not certain, in this modern day, what the best way to witness is. I think that it is living a life devoted to Christ (not religion per se) whereas sending out unsolicited messages such as this more often than not is interpreted as being hit over the head. unfortunately, i think it is this attitude and method that turns so many people off towards Christians. please don't think all Christians are like this. i think you have a right to be offended, i don't think you over-reacted, and i think you handled this with an appropriate amount of dignity and respect. thank you.

[nohomama]

Tara,

It's unfortunate that there are people in this world who think that a single person of a particular faith can embody all people of that faith. This world would be a much more peaceful place if that mentality didn't exhist. For the record though, I don't believe anyone here who voiced an objection to this WAHMs questionable business practices harbers any ill will towards you or other Christians.

As for my musings about proselytyzing/envangelical Christians, I was voicing the perseptions I've gained through my own experiences. Perhaps you felt my brush was a little braod and that I was lumping you in with those who choose to "hit people over the head with His message." If that's the case, I appologize.

[mudder17]

Tara, I do think you're right. I also consider myself a Christian and one of the things we often talk about in our church is about not hitting people over the head with the message. As you pointed out, that's not what Christ did--he just loved people and let his actions speak louder than words (and pamphlets, LOL). As for these pamphlets and other "propaganda", I actually do feel uncomfortable receiving these things, and I especially get turned off by people who come up to me and start trying to "save" me. Even my parents (my dad's a pastor) will politely say, "No thank you," when people try to hand these things out. I think the offense happens because they make you feel like their religion is the only correct one + they assume that you're not "saved" and that if you only listen to them, you will be saved. Does that make any sense (thinking out loud here a little). Anyway, thanks Tara, and thanks to everyone else who voiced their opinions. I don't think anyone here overreacted in their responses and as a Christian, I also don't feel offended or insulted by anything that was said here.

Eileen

Mother of Beautiful Kaya, www.chemicalgraphics.com/kaya
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040222/0/0/1/-5/.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif , 13 months & counting
Kaya's cousin, due October 9th!!!

[tbriese]

sarah,

while an apology was not necessary (nothing you said warranted one in my opinion) i definately appreciated the sentiment in which it was offered :-).

i honestly didn't feel that anyone responded with ill will. it just made me sad that this WAHM was one more example of a potentially negative interaction with Christians. it's more on my mind lately as i've been reading a book called "What's so Amazing About Grace?"

thanks for your words of wisdom :-)

[tbriese]

amen to everything you said :-)

[kijip]

You make a really good point! I certainly don't think all or even most Christians mix work with religion. I think there is a big difference between Christian denominations. Being raised as a Catholic, I know I was never taught to witness to others. I was taught, like you, to live a life devoted to Christ and loving others. However, I live next to a Christian of an evangelical denomination who considers it her God given mission to stop and witness to me as often as possible. To her, since I am Catholic, I am not a Christian. Everyone I know from her denomination thinks this as well.

I think the OP handled the situation REALLY WELL. But I do think it is appropriate to mention in a review. As a potential customer, I want to know. The reason the WAHM should not witness to her customers is because as a customer, I don't want to give ANY money to evangelicals. Now if she does a nice business selling to those that support her religious beliefs, great and she does not need my business.

I went to order a diaper once, noticed the conservative Evangelical Christian leanings of the WAHM's site and yes, I decided not to order. My reasoning is this---I don't shop at Target or WalMart because their political contributions run counter to mine. At this point, Evangelical Christains are a huge part of political views opposite of mine. I try to shop at places that contribute to the political and social causes I support....yes, I love Costco!

Just my two cents!

[nitaghei]

I also contacted the WAHM. She really is a very nice person, and, IMO, has been very responsive to the concerns raised, and open to suggestions that would prevent a repeat of this situation.

Even though I'm a devout follower of another religion, I, for one, have no problems doing business with someone like this WAHM, as long as she doesn't include unsolicited literature. Her products are a great value, and I have no hesitation in recommending them. Her customer service is excellent.

Of course, we all have our own political/ideological hot buttons. :) For me, it's PETA. I will NOT do business with anyone who supports PETA, no matter how great the product or customer service. And I refuse to shop at Costco.

Nita
mom to Neel, January 2003
dog mom to a PWD and a cocker(at the Rainbow Bridge)

[papal]

Why Costco? What am i missing?

[knaidel]

Just to follow up. I posted 2 reviews on Diaper Pin. One was regarding the actual cover, and I gave it 5 stars. The second was about the store. I gave it four stars. I wrote. "Ships very fast. Good customer service. However, buyers should be aware that the owner sends a pamphlet of Christian literature with orders, so just make sure to tell not to send it if you don't want it."
I think that its reasonable to post this. I didn't say, "Owner is a missionary from the Bible Belt." No personal attacks, just the facts. I am sure that there are many cloth diapering mommas who are of other religions/beliefs who wouldn't want to find these things in their order.
Thanks to all of you, especially those who mentioned that I handled it well!:)

[nitaghei]

Rachel,

You definitely handled it well! :) Totally reasonable, and accurate reviews, and helpful. Though she's most probably not going to be sending the pamphlet from now on.

I definitely didn't want that literature (most certainly different religion), though it doesn't tick me off the same way as PETA stuff does. Yes, I got PETA stuff in another WAHM package. :( But then, PETA is truly evil and as such, in a different category.

Nita
mom to Neel, January 2003
dog mom to a PWD and a cocker(at the Rainbow Bridge)

[tarahsolazy]

I just figured out who this WAHM was, and I got my cover first, and didn't notice the pamphlet. Just goes to show how well I look at stuff. I think you handled it very well, also, Rachel, just the facts.

I'm still wondering about the evil retailers/etc:

Walart: evil global empire, try not to shop there
Target: what's up with Target, Katie?
PETA: don't agree with them, but have not felt hate...
Costco: Nita says no, Katie says yes, HMMMM, well we don't have one anyway!

[kthomp]

Great review! I think what you said was just right to inform other potential customers without saying too much.

Well done! ;)

[nitaghei]

Rashmi,

Emailed you.

Nita
mom to Neel, January 2003
dog mom to a PWD and a cocker(at the Rainbow Bridge)

[nitaghei]

I didn't understand lumping Target and Walmart, either.

Target is part of Dayton-Hudson/ Marshall-Fields. Can we say liberal? As in Mark Dayton, the Democrat Senator from Minnesota?

Walmart, OTOH, makes a lot of contributions to the Republican Party and also sells guns.

PETA: Don't even get me started on them. Dog rescuers and the dog Fancy rightly consider the animal rights people the enemy. You have no idea how much time and money we waste fighting them, so that we (the animal WELFARE, not animal rights, community) can actually help the dogs. If there is any one set of people I despise, it's PETA and their ilk.

Nita
mom to Neel, January 2003
dog mom to a PWD and a cocker(at the Rainbow Bridge)

[pritchettzoo]

I would like to know too. We don't shop at Wally World anymore, but I hadn't heard bad stuff about Costco! :(

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03)
and a BOY! (coming July '05)

[katydid1971]

I also was wondering about Costco. I saw a thing on one of the 24 hour news channels that says it's a devalued stock because they give their employees too GOOD of benefits (not something Walmart has ever been accused of.) So what's wrong with Costo? Or is it just a personal thing?

[holliam]

Okay, I'm still clueless! Could someone PM me with the name of the cover/store?

Holli, who prefers her diapers to be secular ;)

[mudder17]

Okay, sent you e-mail.

Eileen

Mother of Beautiful Kaya, www.chemicalgraphics.com/kaya
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040222/0/0/1/-5/.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif , 13 months & counting
Kaya's cousin, due October 9th!!!

[kijip]

No Wal-Mart or Target for me since they both gave heavily to the GOP in 2004. Target gives some to the Dems but mostly GOP. Fine, but not with my dollars. I read the WA state PDC reports and the federal filings as well. Don't have my sources on hand, but I know what I read in the post Novemeber wrap-up. Costco gives to nearly all Democratic canidates so I like shopping there. Also Costco has a very progressive business model and great employee benefits. And is still profitable, so it can be done.

If I was Republican I would not shop at Costco, I would go to Target and WalMart.

ITA that PETA is terrible! Remember those sexist ads a couple years ago? Grrrr.....

ETA- link showing my reasoning on Target. http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=N03 75% of contribution$ to GOP. As a fundraiser for the Dems, it is kind of self defeatng og me to shop at GOP contributors.