JuJuBe- Beware!

[mommyoftwo77]

I am absolutely infuriated right now. I am a new mom to child #3 and was shopping for my new diaper bag. I came across JuJuBe at a local Nordstrom store. This JuJuBe diaper bag proudly boasts on their tags that they use Teflon as the stain fighter in their products.

Do they not realize that Teflon is very dangerous and have been known to emit harmful fumes (PFOA) that has been proven to cause birth defects, cause tumors and cause cancer?

The EPA- Environmental Protection Agency has asked consumers to be cautious about using products that contain these PFOA fumes.

If you google teflon dangers to children you will see pages upon pages of evidence that teflon is dangerous and should not be used around children.

Please be aware of this and spread the word to stay away from JuJuBe bags. These are products that shoudln't be on shelves and should not be around children.

Check out this link:
http://www.enviroblog.org/2007/06/ask-ewg-why-is-there-teflon-in.htm

[bailey2bradenc]

I think you should check out the JJB website under the pink room. Joe, the owner, addresses this concern in the faqs section and puts it to rest.

[Smiles81]

Here is the link to the pink room where teflon is discussed.

http://www.ju-ju-be.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=14011

[mommyoftwo77]

So I read the link and so did my husband (for an extra set of eyes). So basically JuJube dealt with the topic by making a few short sentences (and a joke about heating bags up on stove. The claim wasn't about Teflon pots. It's about PFOA fumes in stain resistant fabric.) and giving a link. Then going on for paragraphs about Agion and how they really are doing good for the environment.

The link they cite says the EPA began investigating Teflon aka PFOA. If you read closely it states that when they began to investigate that they identified "data gaps" in these companies making Teflon's studies. This means that Teflon making companies coincidentally left out data when presenting their case to the EPA.
Then it goes on to say that due to these data gaps the companies committed to reduce PFOA use and other related chemicals by 95% by the year 2010. Then completely by 2015.
So why would companies making Teflon agree to alter their manufacturing process and spend money unneccesarily if these "safe" Teflon and other chemicals were not a threat to the community?
Easy. It was part of an agreement and a very LARGE fine that these Teflon making companies had to make.

If you read in the cbs news link below. You will see that this EPA investigation resulted in Teflon maker Dupont paying out $6.25 million dollars. THIS IS THE REASON WHY THEY HAVE UNTIL 2010 TO ELIMINATE USE OF TEFLON.IT WAS PART OF AN AGREEMENT. NO BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING A GOOD DEED. "The settlement involves action taken against Dupont by the EPA for allegedly withholding information about the potential health and environmental risks posed by perfluorooctanoic acid, or PFOA, under provisions of both the Toxic Substances Control Act and the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act"

Here are a few more links to read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/25/AR2006012502041.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/14/business/main1124537.shtml

I am not one to climb up on a soap box and preach. Infact this is the first time, but when it comes down to products like this being created that are potentially harmful to children. I will stand up.

Plus the bottom line is that Teflon is a chemical no matter how you spin it. I want to keep my babies food away from it.

Honestly JuJube needs to stop taking listening to their Teflon fabric sales rep.

[jujube-crew]

Hi Mommyoftwo77

Joe from Ju-Ju-Be here. I usually don't come and post anywhere outside the Pink Room since we feel like it discourages the healthy debates that typically take place in these forums. We're a company and we're not out to advertise in places we shouldn't be. We love it when people come to us with questions in the Pink Room and then we can address them for all the people that are interested. So why am I here? I just couldn't let this one slip past. You see...I'm a dad to four kids. I graduated from school and started working in the outdoor industry because of my profound love of this amazing planet that we live on. My first job was as a backpack designer so that I could spend as much time as possible in the outdoors. I have compact fluorescent bulbs instead of incandescent. I recycle feverishly. I have a four cylinder car and would love to buy a hybrid (but I'm broke from financing a diaper bag company)...and I'm one of those individuals that truly cares. What does that have to do with Teflon? Well, if my wife, who is the most precious person to me in the world, my kids, who are the next most precious people in my world, and this world which is one of the ultimate gifts we have, were in any danger I'd dig into the root of what's up. I have established a few facts through pretty exhaustive research. Most of them have come straight from the EPA. And that's who I look to for a lot of answers. That's why in the Pink Room i'd push you to look at them, not me. I can go on and on in the Pink Room about what I think...but it doesn't matter. It's the facts that count. The EPA is one of the best source for facts. Not bloggers, not company owners, not even newspaper journalists (they get things right about 50% of the time). I'd encourage you to look into the issue for yourself, looking at the facts. Check the science. Here's what you need to take a look at and what I've gathered:

One, Teflon is not PFOA. That is a fact. PFOA is a processing agent that is used in making some forms of Teflon.

Two TEFLON as a non-stick cooking surface is very different from Teflon as a fabric protector. While extreme heat in the cooking process may produce fumes, there are no fumes associated with Teflon fabric protector or its use.

Three, use of a product treated with Teflon fabric protector does not expose you to PFOA in any measurable amount.

Four, the EPA has publicly stated that at the present time they do not believe there is any reason for consumers to stop using any products because of concerns about PFOA.

So...what does worry me and why are we having this discussion? Both 3M and DuPont and the EPA have seen that PFOAs are persistent in the environment. That's a concern to me. Have they found ways to reduce those emissions? Yes, definitely. Have they correlated PFOAs in the environment at the current levels to any health issues in humans? No. Are those levels in the environment going down? Yes...they've seen a decline in the measured levels of PFOA in Arctic polar bears blood decline significantly. Has DuPont followed through on their commitment to reduce PFOAs voluntarily and eventually wipe them out...Yep. By a huge percentage so far and everyone is striving to have them completely gone (a difficult task).

So, back to the things I worry most about....my wife, my kids, my planet. We've talked about the planet. If things didn't get put under control, I think we could have had a problem in the future. I think that there has been a lot of action to avoid a "potential" problem. As mentioned before, no data suggests that at current levels there's any harm. At high levels it creates problems in lab animals. Unchecked I'm guessing that there would have been some effect on humans too. Kind of like green house emissions. They're there...they're causing effects on the environment. We'd like to know more about those effects. We're reducing those emissions, and long term we hope to eliminate them. Why don't we eliminate them right now? We need them too much.

Do you need Teflon on your bag? Again, I'll reiterate that according to all the data there are absolutely no risks associated with contact with the bag. So the question comes up as to what happens if we don't treat the bags. For one, I'd make more money since I wouldn't have to pay for a premium fabric treatment. But we'd have some problems. I'll refer you to some research done about how dirty bags are a huge carrier of bacteria, disease, germs, and other nasty stuff including the bad ones (e-coli, salmonella, hepatitis).

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/purse.asp

So, if there is anything that I can do to protect my wife, my kids, my life, then I'm going to do it. If that involves using a treatment that is proven to keep unwanted food, feces, vomit, urine, and general nastiness from sticking to a bag, then the benefit(proven) outweighs the unknown possibility of a risk.

So enough of my venting. I just wanted to get the facts out there, not hype from journalists...please feel free to contact me directly if you want to chat. Our toll free number is on the website. My extension is 802. I do thank you for being concerned and diligent. We need more people in the world like you!

All the best...
Joe

PS I also wear Gore-Tex when I'm out volunteering with the local youth group in the outdoors. I also used a computer to type this message to you (and I see you used one to post the message). Why do I point out those facts? Gore-Tex and silicone chips are other items that use PFOA as a processing agent. Those industries have committed to reducing PFOAs as well.

[mommyoftwo77]

I hear your arguments and to get to the point.. what else are you going to tell me? "Yes. You're correct". Of course not. You are going to protect your company.

I have done the research and I encourage everyone else to do research as well. I'm not talking just journalists and web site bloggers who are stating their opinions. I am talking about cold hard facts from the EPA too.

Regarding your statement that Teflon is not a PFOA. Well Teflon is the brand name. So for trademark reasons, Teflon people don't allow PFOA creators to say it's Teflon. And yes PFOA is the processing agent that is used in manufacturing ALL Teflon products not some.

You talk about doing exhaustive research. I read many of the same articles and you have cut and paste statements together to support your case.

None of what you say takes away the fact that the creators of Teflon had to pay out $6.25 million dollars as part of their agreement with the EPA for knowingly posing a risk to society. They are ordered by the EPA to begone with all PFOA by year 2015.

So to get down to it...the EPA is saying there is a possible link between PFOA and these dangerous risks.

So I can only speak for me when I say...

There is enough info out there against Teflon and the risks it poses that I would never take the chance. There is enough other diaper bags out there. Why would I risk exposing my children to such a harmful chemical?
Why would anybody in their right mind buy this diaper bag knowing that it could be a risk?
Sorry Mr. Jujube.. you make a cute diaper bag, but why would anybody risk it?

[jujube-crew]

To All:
Facts from the EPA. Please visit: http://www.epa.gov/oppt/pfoa/ for the full text and to do your own research. If you get the research from elsewhere please expect it to be tainted by either a DuPont positive spin or an alarmist media negative spin.

*************cut and pasted from the epa's website:

"PFOA stands for perfluorooctanoic acid, a synthetic (man-made) chemical that does not occur naturally in the environment. PFOA is sometimes called "C8." Companies use PFOA to make fluoropolymers, substances with special properties that have thousands of important manufacturing and industrial applications.

Consumer products made with fluoropolymers include non-stick cookware, and breathable, all-weather clothing. These products are not PFOA, however. The information that EPA has available does not indicate that the routine use of household products poses a concern. EPA does not have any indication that the public is being exposed to PFOA through the use of Teflon®-coated or other trademarked nonstick cookware. Teflon® and other trademarked products are not PFOA. At the present time, EPA does not believe there is any reason for consumers to stop using any products because of concerns about PFOA. More Basic Information about PFOA.

EPA began investigating PFOA because it is very persistent in the environment, it was being found at very low levels both in the environment and in the blood of the general U.S. population, and it caused developmental and other adverse effects in laboratory animals. EPA summarized its concerns and identified data gaps and uncertainties about PFOA in a notice published in the Federal Register.

Beginning in 2003, EPA negotiated with multiple parties to produce missing information on PFOA through enforceable consent agreements, memoranda of understanding, and voluntary commitments. Information on these activities is available in the online dockets and on the PFOA Meetings page.


In January 2006, EPA and the eight major companies in the industry created the 2010/15 PFOA Stewardship Program. The companies committed to reduce facility emissions and product content of PFOA and related chemicals by 95 percent by 2010, and to work toward eliminating emissions and product content by 2015."

************

Here's where the facts from the EPA end and my commentary begins:

I point out...TEFLON is not PFOA. PFOA can be a byproduct of the manufacturing process, but the "EPA does not have any indication that the public is being exposed to PFOA through the use of Teflon®-coated or other trademarked nonstick cookware."

Parallel scenario. San Clemente has a nuclear power plant on the south side of town. Radioactive waste is a byproduct of the power generation process. Am I subjecting my child to any sort of risk by turning my lights on? No. There is a big difference between the manfuacturing process and the end product. I would not suggest you take your child to a TEFLON processing plant and drink the waste water any more than I would take my own child to play down inside the containment wall of the reactor. Also, would the powerplant be subjected to a large fine if they dumped radio active waste into the enviroment? Yes, and DuPont had a big fine for dumping PFOAs and not disclosing info about PFOAs. Has DuPont cleaned up their act? Yes, they've reduced their PFOA emissions by 94% since 2000. http://www2.dupont.com/Media_Center/en_US/news_releases/2006/article20060125d.html and they're pushing for complete elimination by 2015

As mentioned before, I worry immensely about the enviroment, about our planet...about nuclear waste disposal and about PFOAs in the environment. I also worry about misinformation being spread and the word "risk" being associated with our bags. Especially when the opposite is true. We don't have to use Teflon. It would be easy to stop immediately, but we have done our research and made an educated choice as to a true benefit. In our opinion, it would be a risk to buy anyone else's bag that isn't machine washable, doesn't release food, germs, bacteria, dangerous molds, yeast, fungi, mildew, and is a breeding ground for harmful diseases with known side effects (eColi, salmonella, hepatitus) etc. A clean bag is a healthy bag.

Again, I encourage all to go visit the EPA website to get real facts and form their own, untainted opinion. Come visit in the Pink Room and feel free to contact me. Sorry for overstepping my bounds here.

Best
Joe

[sassygirl]

Wow! How cool that the owner of this company actually cares enough to defend his product on our cute little board!!! That shows dedication! Thanks ju-ju-be!

[mommyoftwo77]

It's not dedication. It's scared. Of course he has to stand up and say something I'm bringing up a point that could endanger his business and his sales. We are the consumers, duh?
So Mr. JuJuBe... I made my point and I spoke for myself when I say I wouldn't take the risk and neither would the women in my mommy group. I am informing others and that the point to a board like this. Others can make their own informed decision and do their own research.
And if you are that confident in what you are saying then you should sit back and not worry.
However if I am right when I say that it's a risk and why risk it when they're are so many other cute bags out there? Then be worried because you'll have a lot of answering to do later.

[sassygirl]

You have issues lady! If you are allowed to have freedom of speech then I should be allowed to have freedom of speech too. You are acting like "Mr. JuJuBe" has come into your home and is trying to personally poison your child. Why don't you believe the EPA? Do you think they are lying????

[mommyoftwo77]

Im sorry you took it that way. My statement wasn't meant to come off like I was attacking you.
This is about the issue and its about being informed. I never said the EPA was lying. I said that some of the comments Mr.JuJuBe wrote were cut and pasted to come to his defense. He was citing only some of the EPA facts and not all of them. Nor has he spoke about any of the other agency's facts.
If anybody out there reads the facts out there on their own.Then make their own informed decisions about whether they wish to carry JuJuBe bags. Then its up to them.
I stated that I have read the facts and that for me there is enough evidence out there to link Teflon and PFOA agents to harmful threats and I'll stay away from them.
Thats it. I'm out. I said my piece.

[DAKnits]

http://www.oppenheimlaw.com/dupont-sued-teflon.html

[ellies mom]

That is talking about pans and the issue there is when the pan is overheated. I'm not sure how that is relevant to diaper bags.

[Readermom]

I read the link and what she's saying is that here's another case that talks about the harms of teflon.
This link only supports the original posts that teflon whether used in pots, pans or stain resistant fabrics it is potentially harmful. Remember when Scotchguard was pulled off shelves??
I appreciate mommyoftwo77 bringing all this up. I usually just sit back and listen, but I had to step in and speak up because nobody else was thanking mommyoftwo77 for taking the time to post.

[julieakc]

I usually stay away from the heated debates on the board, but I wanted to say a few things about this one...

First, let me say that I try to make healthy choices for my child (food, products, etc.) and the environment....I am not perfect or extremist, but I do make conscious decisions; I recycle, I bring my own bags about 90% of the time (not just when grocery shopping), buy earth friendly products, etc. I am VERY concerned about the future of the earth.

Second, I think it is wonderful that the owner of Ju-Ju-Be took the time to personally post about here....and I do not believe Joe posted because he was worried about profits. My experience with Ju-Ju-Be is that they are a great, caring company. If the OP or anyone else spent anytime in the pinkroom I think you would come to the same conclusion. Yes, this is a large population of women here, but it is still a small percentage of total mom's and I am sure there are plenty of moms out there who will continue to buy Ju-Ju-Be bags so the overall effect of the profits from a discussion here would be pretty minimal, if any (I think we tend to have a bigger influence on adding to sales as opposed to lowering sales, especially on a debatable issue).

Third, admittedly I am not an expert on the Teflon issue, but I have done more research than the average person (as clearly the op has too), and while I admit that I do not fully trust the EPA (after all it is a large, slow-moving bureaucracy) I do personally believe that there is relatively no harm (few things are completely without harm/risk) in a Teflon coated bag. A) my child and I are not breathing the fumes from production (I wouldn't want him to be around fumes from any manufacturing); B)my child generally doesn't touch my bags and certainly doesn't lick or chew on them, C) I do believe that bags carry many nasty germs and that the coating can protect from these known risks (completely agreeing with Joe's arguments here).

Lastly, while I appreciate that the op wanted to bring an issue that concerned here to share with other mom's IMHO it does seem like the initial post was more adversarial as opposed to simply raising awareness, and the subsequent posts were definitely argumentative when Joe was just trying to give his opinion/position on the matter.

[Marisa6826]

Julie-

I think you said it all very well.

We're locking this thread until we can discuss this matter further with Alan and Denise.

Marisa, Hilary and Erica
BBB Mods