View Full Version : Ughhh - LONG journal court not waived in country 9 weeks

07-24-2004, 11:27 AM
It was their chosing to stay in the country, but this journal is an example of going thru the ringer...

I must say I found the mother to be wearing very grey glasses...everything seems so doomy and gloomy in her eyes -EVERYTHING...I'm not one to usually judge folks UNLESS I find them judging but she seemed to have an attitude thru out the process and then hinted when her 2 year old thru a tantrum that she said "do you want to go home with mommy or go back to your group" YIKES....I just couldn't imagine being allowed to adopt a child over there with such an attitude and to actually say that to the child....just awful.

A journal that reminds me life is what you make it and how you chose to see it that is for certain...
Anyway sorry I am on my soap box but this journaling disturbed me greatly...


AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

07-24-2004, 01:29 PM
I just read the whole thing myself. You are absolutely right. I'm not sure what she expected, but it certainly seems as though she could not find a single thing about the Ukraine to like.

A child is a miracle, whether you give birth to them or not. It does not seem to me as if this woman does not look at it like this at all. I got the overwhelming feeling that she looked at having this child as one more cross she must bear in her life. How sad.

Every other journal I have read has talked about how there were such beautiful sites to see, how much the children were cared for by their caretakers, etc. I didn't read a bit of this in this journal.

I have to admit, I finished it a bit worried for this child.

Thanks for posting a different perspective, Neve.


Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
and Katherine 6/03

07-24-2004, 04:33 PM
What about the line " we met some americans today, granted they were Yankees, but still it was nice to hear our language"...granted that is not a direct quote but unless I read it wrong that is what I heard out of it...

I would think if I walked into a Soviet Era hotel instead of saying "yuck soviet era hotel" I'd think "wow, we are staying in a soviet era hotel, how many folks get to experience this"...

It's just interesting to me how folks seem to want to lead their lives, I mean this gal is making her web that is for certain...
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

07-24-2004, 06:51 PM
I have to say -I go back and read my own journal and think, "Wow, I didn't put in much of the positive." And it wasn't that I wasn't enjoying 95% of our trip, but I didn't really take the time out to journal when everything was great. It was my release to write in the blog how I spent the night with food poisoning and Jamie screaming. I do think, if I recall, that we also wrote his first smile, how perfect he was, when he called us momma and baba, etc. but I don't think I emphasized it as much as I should have. Actually, I wished after I read my blog at home that I had some way to get a more comprehensive view of what I was writing as a whole while I was there. While there, as amazing as the journey is, it is overwelming - emotionally and sometimes physically, both in the positive and negative sense. Particularly, I think, if this is your first child, because you have all the new parent fears additionally (although since I haven't done a second I could be wrong).

That said, I haven't read their journal (I started, but it really is very long and Jamie, poor baby, has a cold today) but anyone who threatens to send their child back to an orphanage should not be allowed to go any further IMO.

07-26-2004, 02:13 PM
I haven't read the journal but you have to remember Neve that some people unfortunately adopt for the wrong reasons and/or have the wrong expecations. Not everyone is like those of us who research things to death :) nor is everyone who adopts going to be as open minded a parent as we would like (just like not everyone who gives birth is going to be as open minded as we would like).

I myself cringe a little everytime I hear someone say they want to adopt to "save" a child (well not every time because it depends on the context), adopting isn't about "saving" a child, it's about parenting a child. Now I'm not suggesting that adopting a child doesn't often get them away from a situation that would be unhealthy for them but adoption is about building a family relationship but being some kind of hero. (I'm not saying that this couple feels as they are adopting to save a child just that's a statement that bugs me)

That being said my mother always said that never put anything into a letter that you don't want the whole world to know and frankly that really has to be the case with an online journal. In some ways already having children can actually make things a bit harder when you adopt if you don't educate yourself. For example a parent may have a specific set of actions they take when a child does a or b which may or may not be appropriate to take with a child who spend some time in a group care setting or even in a foster home when the child is first part of the family. For example the idea of time out is actually not considered to be the best option with a child who has been a situation where they spend a lot of time without adult interaction. Depriving a child of "love" or attention because of the way they act can have a different meaning to a child who has not had love or attention their whole life besides the fact that a really young child has more difficulty (bio or adopted) understanding the difference between I am bad and my actions are bad. (I'm not even saying that these parents have educated themself because it certainly sounds like at points she is well aware that adjustment is going to take time (of course she has 2 to 3 months while most attachment experts suggest that you expect the first year to be a time when a child relearns/learns how to attach and bond with you)

I read the section you mentioned and I don't think the parent meant it as a threat (in otherwords if you don't behavior I will send you back to the group) but more of look if you don't want to be here then you don't have to be. That being said we are talking about a two year old here. Even if the person didn't mean it to sound like it does, it's still not an appropriate statement for a 2 year old who is in a new situation. Then again a woman alone in another country without her regular meds (what ever those might be) who is writing an email to her husband and then has parts of the email cut and paste into a journal probably is going to say/do something that she might not have under less stress. Anyway I'm not trying to make excuses for her, just thinking that hopefully in the end she really is a kind parent and good person who just doesn't come across very well in her writing

Here's the thing in the end. As you said life is what you make of it. A different couple in the same situation might have a very different outlook on their journey. I mean look at you for example, do you honestly think you would have reacted or written the same things or in the same way. I don't. It's just not your style. This family might be the happiest family in the world and they might have a great life and no issues from this point on. Then again they might. Are they prepared as well as they should be for some things I don't know? But then again I like to think that 99% of the people who adopt whatever their reason turn out to be okay parents if not great parents, the other 1% should never have been parents at all (and probably should never been approved for a homestudy..maybe 1% is too high but there are certainly people who have huge red flags that are missed through social worker error..it's scary sometimes)

Now when we read your journal we won't expect to always be sunshine and happiness but we know for sure that you will never say do you want to go back to your group?

07-26-2004, 07:18 PM
Malie, I just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading your post and it's given me some things to think about.

As for the sad outlook from the journal, I think of it this way-
there is a GREAT WAR inside of each of us. There is a dark, sad, Eeyore side of us... and there is a bright, positive, Tigger side of us. Which side will win? Answer- the side you feed. If you go around thinking negative thoughts, living in a negative atmosphere- you are feeding the Eeyore side. If you try to see the upside to situations, surround yourself with positive people, count your blessings- you feed the Tigger side.

This lady in the journal is stressed in a country that probably feeds the sad side of her personality. Hopefully she can look back and enjoy and cherish this time... and more hopefully she will see this child as a blessing.

I have to fight myself to not feed Eeyore, and find Tigger instead- but it is worth every effort!

07-26-2004, 09:15 PM
I love your Eeyore and Tigger example...may I steal that one from you???? It describes how I feel on many things :)

Malie, I do agree that folks shouldn't put in writing what they don't want read...I was SHOCKED at so much of this womens journal...I've read hundreds of journals at this point and this one stood out to me more than any, infact not one I have read seemed so doomy and gloomy on every front. I am shocked on so many different angles by it, let alone meeting up with yankess...and posting that on public boards...

I am certain they will be lovely parents though...
her journal in my eyes was EXACTLY as I described it
"wearing grey goggles"
"doomy and gloomy"
No matter the spin that is what I took away from it...

Neve and Tristan born Feb 25, 2003
EDD with #2 March 18, 2005
heartbeat and "looking great" so far
Traveling in Jan insearch of the rest of our family-adopting in Ukraine

07-26-2004, 11:47 PM
Steal away!

07-27-2004, 11:31 AM
I haven't finished it yet, but she sounded terribly depressed and homesick. 9 weeks, that is a long time. I don't think I could be away from my children that long...what a hard decision (to leave one child or the rest).

ETA - Neve...do you know if they went independent or agency?

One more edit...it seems like the father is doing most of the gloomy updates at first. How sad that the mother calls it 'baby prison.'

07-27-2004, 07:19 PM
Her use of the term "baby prison" is what struck me hard too. And the yankee comment...

04-22-2005, 12:07 AM
Hmm..I am the adoptive father from the journal that is being analyzed. This is almost a year after these comments were made, so no one may ever see my responses, but maybe someone will come across them and get our side of this critique.

You are jumping to erroneous conclusions about what my wife was saying with regard to letting our daughter go with her or go back to her play group. She was NOT referring to leaving our daughter in the orphanage instead of coming to America, she was giving her the choice of staying with her group or coming to our apartment for that afternoon's visit. We would never hint at the idea of not completing our adoption.

As far as the gloominess goes, I appreciate that someone commented how this was a very difficult ordeal, being in a foreign country for an extended period away from our other children. It was a wonderful experience and I'd do it again in a heartbeat for my sweet girl, but it was also one of the most traumatic times in my life (right up there with learning our son is autistic). There were many times we thought we would return to America without finding our daughter and that was devastating. If we had done the journal in hindsight, I imagine it would not be as gloomy. But when you're writing those words right after your spirit has been crushed, it's not going to be all cheerful.

As far as the term "baby prison", it was a half-joke and half-truth. You have to have humor in such a situation or else you'll go mad. Our sense of humor is on the sarcastic side as well. The sad part is there is not a good reason for keeping the kids in the orphanage as long as they do - it is certainly not in the children's best interest. Also there is much graft and greed involved, many things we did not allude to in our journal for fear of it causing difficulties for our adoption. The fact that many people care only for money and not for these kids is truly sad and upsetting. On top of that, there is almost no joy in the orphanages, at least the ones we visited. In our daughter's orphanage, the children spent most of the time sitting quietly in chairs. There were toys up on the shelves but these were rarely made available to the kids. Having been there for two months, I can truly say it is not a healthy or happy environment for these kids.

Lastly, the "yankee" comment - I had no idea someone would take offense at that - I apologize, no harm was meant. When I say it I am smiling, so I guess I should have put a :-) in my blog. I'm from Alabama -- call me a redneck if you like (I do myself); I won't be offended.

So there are my comments. if someone would like to discuss further any of this I'd be glad to -- send to sommersb \at\ gmail.com

Cheers, Brian Sommers

04-22-2005, 02:17 AM
Brian, I am sorry if you or your wife were hurt by any of the comments, but I wouldn't sweat it. I have had one of the more difficult adoption experiences, and I am sure people colored their view of me based on reading my adoption blog. But, the fact was my blog was my source of venting. It was a safe house for me to share with friends and family. Much too late I realized that people who I didn't like or trust were reading it too. It rocked my world when I realized how some people were interpreting my comments. I'm a writer by trade so I express myself in writing, even my struggles with the demons and my Eeyore side (though I am afraid to admit that I am equally fond of Eeyore and Tigger ;)). I honestly regret sharing much of my experience with others because I am sure I was judged inappropriately.

As they say, until someone has walked a mile in your shoes, he/she really isn't in a place to judge you.

However, in defense of the folks on this board, I think everyone who shared their perspective is a wonderfully kind, loving, and supportive mama whose hearts are pure and true for hoping for the best for all children and their families. They're one of the small things in my life that keep me on my adoption journey even when there are days that I don't think it will ever end, and we're at 17 months and counting!

My blog has been dead now for over a month thanks to what some folks (no one here!) did and said to me about it. Some days I really miss it, but mostly I don't. I've just taken the approach that I won't bother telling anyone anything until we finally have her in our arms. I got tired of feeling like the boy who cried wolf!

Hope your family is doing well!

04-22-2005, 09:59 AM
I'm glad you posted. Honestly I think it's very hard for someone who hasn't been there or done that to understand exactly what it is like to have these experiences.

Plus as I said in my first post, reading the "private" thoughts of someone who is half the world away doesn't mean that the person who writes something that seems out of wack or harsh or poor parenting, is really wacky or harsh or a poor parent. EVERY PARENT has moments when they take back what they said or do things differently or where they just have to let go in the "privacy" of a journal.

The things with blogs however is that they are open to the world and like it or not when we put things out for the world to see, the "world" who doesn't know us may look at things different then we might expect. As my mother use to say don't write something down you don't want the whole world to know (of course that rarely stopped me) but that's what blog are about. People reading our private thoughts..so we have to think whether we really want to share all of them. Usually it's not until someone starts to pick apart our words do we realize just how open things are.

Anyway thanks for posting. I hope you and your family are doing GREAT.

04-23-2005, 03:47 PM
I appreciate your comments, holliam and mailie.

I think international adoption really is something you cannot fully understand unless you've gone a mile in someone else's shoes, as you said.

Our blog was primarily for friends and family, but of course available to anyone who wants to read it. I know of some couples who put a password on their blogs because they were concerned about the adoption officials overseas reading and reacting negatively but we never felt that was necessary. There was one example after we returned of a couple who was told by the gov't agency to take it down because of potentially damaging content (to the foreign gov't agency, that is). We had hoped also our blog would be useful for those families about to go through the same thing. I know I learned a lot before we went overseas from reading other family's journals. These children are wonderful and desperately need loving homes; anything we can do to help facilitate that is great in my book.

We are doing wonderfully with our sweet princess, now almost a year since we first met in the orphanage. She has joyfully completed our family, as God has had the wisdom and love to do!

All the best, Brian

04-25-2005, 11:23 PM
Brian -I think you had a lot of class in your response to the thread. I think I may have been a lot more upset. As I noted, my blog while in China (for a much shorter time than you were away) was more negative than I would have liked in hindsight. I hope you were not hurt by the contents of the post and I am glad to hear that you and your family are doing well.

Holli - I think I have shown (for me) an incredible amount of restraint in not deluging you with questions on your process. I think of you often. I must admit, when you said it has been 17 months, I thought, "That's all!" (not that that is a short time period, but it feels like FOREVER!!!). I hope you and Liam are holding up well under the strain.

Take care

04-29-2005, 03:49 PM
Brian, thank you for being so sweet here! I am absolutely thrilled that you, your new daughter, and family are doing well and that it did end up to have a very happy outcome! I hope you'll stay on these boards and give guidance to those that are persuing adoption- I'm positive you are a WEALTH of experience!! :) Please pass on my appologies to your family and especially your wife for any hard feelings regarding anything I said.

05-28-2005, 02:11 PM
Holly and Julie, thanks for your kind words and understanding.

We are very happy today as we're celebrating the day we met our Sarah for the first time in Ukraine! She has come a long way, getting taller, speaking wonderful English (with a cute little Southern drawl!) and basically wrapping the whole family around her sweet little finger.

I'm going to try a post a recent picture of her because I'm so proud to be her Daddy!



05-28-2005, 07:29 PM
She is beautiful! And such a wonderful smile. Congrats on the one year mark.

07-07-2005, 07:18 PM
Thank you, Holly