So...what do you think of the Angelina Jolie headlines?

[Melanie]

I cringe at the words "Bought a baby," KWIM?

However, in reading the news stories and with my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the Russian Adoption system...maybe that is what she did?

Some say "bought" a newborn from a poor mother and the baby is in the US already and some say adopted a 7 mo from an orphanage but the baby is still in Russia (more like what I have heard of their program).

Just a few: http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=b5420bb0a12ba8b1
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11350946%255E10431,00.html
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/10/18/jolieadoption.shtml
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/13562004.htm

It's sure hard to imagine her as a doting mother after that Billy-Bob red carpet incident. ick.

[icunurse]

Well, as far as the "good mother" thing goes, she does seem to spend a lot of time with her child and has repeatedly professed her love for him and all children. As far as the headlines go...I think that because her "struggle" to adopt hasn't been publicized, she, like many celebrities, automatically get labeled with doing something corrupt to adopt a child. I have found, personally, that when anyone admits to paying a bribe or "extra fees" in foreign countries they tend to get labeled as "buying" a baby, as do people who may have paid higher adoption fees through an agency. Unfortunately, celebrity watchers always want to make more of a story than there might be and a society uneducated about current adoption practices always feels that it has the right to give their opinions about adoption.
Traci
~Connor's Mom~

[malie]

Well her last adoption was called into question awhile back (the person she worked with was placing children illegally they did not meet the US defination of orphan). Not that it was said she did ANYTHING wrong just that the person who facilitate the adoption was not on the up and up. She (Jolie) doesn't seem to like to have to jump through all the hoops the rest of us do to adopt. Doesn't mean that she doesn't do them (USCIS ect) but she certainly gives the appearence of somehow getting past things. Can you see her waiting on line to get fingerprinted? :) And if it appears that she is getting past them (even if she isn't) then it makes it look like she is doing some illegal. But the truth is that if she didn't go through the adoption registery in Russia then she skipped a step.

I hope for the child's sake that everything is handled properly.

[hwin708]

I think it's flat out ridiculous that papers make such a nasty story out of this kind of thing.
How many journals do we read from links on this board where people describe how necessary it is to bribe certain officials in order to adopt from certain foreign countries. That is simply the way of it. To criticize Jolie for doing the same is ridiculous.
Personally, I admire her views on adoption. She firmly believes that these children are in need of new lives. She does a HUGE amount of work in impoverished countries, particularly to help kids. And she has been very outspoken in her love for her son and her desire to adopt more children.
I completely believe she can cut certain red tape using her power and money. Who wouldn't, if they could afford to do so? She's not spending her money on crazy parties, drug, etc like other celebrities. She's adopting children!
And the quotes from some of those articles - "Right now it's too easy for foreigners to adopt our children" Lubov Blizhina a Parliamentary deputy "This wave of foreign adoptions, including Jolie's case, is very suspicious to us. Don't they (the non-Russians) have their own children to adopt?" Are you freakin' kidding me?!! Should the children just remain in orphanages because foreigners are suspicious??
It's disgusting - simply making a sordid tale out of what should be a beautiful thing!

[Melanie]

Yeah, I thought that quote was pretty offensive. Though, from what I found...this story only ran in the non-US papers so the articles definitely were from a different type of journalism.

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

it bothers me when society seems to judge folks who adopt, their intentions, their methods etc... while people all around us are pregnant and are not held to that same judgement.

Anyway I've said that before so I know I am a broken record...


Neve and Tristan born Feb 25, 2003
* EDD 3/19/05 Baby girl BRONWYN
* Adopting siblings in Ukraine 12-10-04
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan

[hjdong]

I remember the week before my homestudy there were 5 cases in my local papers about children who died from neglect/abuse/being left in cars. I remember being so angry - not just for th kids but because the expletive parents could most likely get pregnant at the drop of a hat and I had to have someone come to my house to inspect me.

I also remember from her first adoption (I may be wrong, I have to be honest that I don't follow celebs that much - we were watching Sat. Night Live last week and DH had to keep telling me who was being imitated - loses some of the humor) that there were thousands of adoptions brought into question along with hers. Not like she in particular had done something wonrg, but that the agency and/or country had made problems.

Lastly, I think the comment about the officials being suspicious is fairly accurate of how a lot of foriegners feel about Americans adopting children from their country. It's sad, but I have heard a variation of that theme from many different sources. Some of my ILs are Chinese (as in from China, all of my ILs are Chinese but some are American born) and you can see a difference in the opinion of the American born responses to adopting ("oh, that's wonderful, blah blah blah) to the foriegn born (Are you sure? You don't want to try harder to have your own? But those children were thrown away?). To even these ILs credit, once they were done insultingly questioning our decision, they were supportive and even have come to see it as a good thing. But, there is definately a different perspective.

[Melanie]

"But those children were thrown away?)."

Wow...how sad. So are they not glad that foreigners are adopting there, or do you take it more as they are just confused by it?

[malie]

Holly there was concern about her son's case because she didn't want to wait to bring him home (her oldest son) but she went back and went through all the steps, unfortunately the person she used to complete the adoption is guilty of adoption fraud but as you said individual cases aren't being looked at). That was Cambodia

The problem with the second adoption if there really is a problem is because Russia does have a registry all children need to be on the registery 6 months before they are placed internationally, so that's 6 months from the time they are placed for adoption if they are placed at 3 months then they would not be able to be adopted internationally until they are 9 months. If the child hadn't cleared the registry then it means that the officials in Russia did something wrong. Because she couldn't have taken the child out of the country if someone hadn't helped her.

I don't consider the registry red tape. The whole purpose is to help prevent corruption and so that children are given a chance to be adopted domestically

I guess my point is if the officials are suspicious they need to look at their own people not Angelina (or not just Angelina) but I think that because her facilitator for her oldest son has been convicted of fraud probably makes people look at any adoption she does even if she is doing nothing wrong

Of course when you are famous whether you are adopting or pregnant or undergoing infertility treatments your life is more of an open book and everything you do is questioned by someone

[hjdong]

Thank you for explaining that. And I agree that the registry is not red tape but that they should be looking internally not externally. We had friends who adopted from Russia, and we considered it because in the areas near China there are 1/2 Caucasian, 1/2 Chinese babies that typically aren't adopted as quickly because most people going to Russia want Caucasian babies. We decided against it because of our friends warnings about the extra cash needed inside Russia to get out. An add stress we felt we didn't need. That said, we chose China and right after our referral, the director of my son's orphanage was executed (yes, executed) for embezzlement. Most of her money was stolen from the orphanage (that is, you paid the same fees but it never went to the kids), but some was from parents with inexperienced agencies who were told they needed to pay extra for the foster care their children had recieved. My point is, this is a country that through the years has been known as having a stable system, and there's still corruption. Unfortunately, it's part of the price of adoption.

As for my ILs, I certainly hope I explain this well. They have been in the U.S. for 20+ years. They came from a very small, poor (i.e. no indoor plumbing, not enough food, etc.) village. They consider themselves very modern compared to the China of their youth. And they have visited their village fairly recently; not much has changed. So, they feel that they have lost a lot of their prejudices. Frankly, after they made the comments, they were pretty embarrassed by them. They are glad that people adopt the children from China, but at the same time, they are embarrassed by the lack of care for the children within China, with the blatant preference for boys, by the backwardness of it (their view point). They also knew that in our situation we didn't, so to speak, "try very hard," to have children biologically. They have always been very pro-adoption and spoke highly of their friends and other extended family members who have adopted. They even have "paper family" themselves that is so integrated my husband isn't really sure who of the extended family is a blood relative and who is a "paper" relative. I think it was just a shock to them when it was their family and they reacted out of the weaker part of them. They have been very loving towards DS, and I think it challenged some of their prejudices.

[minot]

We are currently waiting on the referral of two children from Russia.. (we should get the call in the next few weeks.. except for the holidays)..

Anyhow.. I think it is interesting that these articles are only from non-us sources (as someone else mentioned) since, if it were true, we would be hearing about it more widely here.. and she has been very candid about her desire to adopt again..

>And the quotes from some of those articles - "Right now it's
>too easy for foreigners to adopt our children" Lubov Blizhina
>a Parliamentary deputy "This wave of foreign adoptions,
>including Jolie's case, is very suspicious to us. Don't they
>(the non-Russians) have their own children to adopt?"

As for the above quote, I believe the deputy quoted is a member of the ultra-conservative party that would prefer Russia have entirely closed borders - so yes he thinks it's easy and wrong... but he also thinks that Russia was better as a communist country (of course that's my interpretation)...

I do think that if Angelina Jolie is going to adopt a child from Russia, that it will be a wonderful thing for that child. However, she should have to go through the same paperwork and wait as the rest of us... whether that happens or not.. who knows..

just my .02 as a waiting Russian adoptive parent..

[Melanie]

Good Luck to you Beth, I hear it is an amazing journey!!

I would love to go to Russia and Ukraine someday! If not to bring home one of our children (which of course I hope), at least to see where Dh's family is from. He's been there, and from what he can tell me/remember...it is amazing.

Also, I agree with your statement about her...wonderful for her to do it, but I hope she goes through channels. It was the story about her paying a new mother and leaving with a newborn that irritated me. I hope it's not true...