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egoldber
10-21-2003, 02:41 PM
So we have gone through various stages with Sarah and our pets (2 cats and a dog).

1) The infant stage where they all ignored each other
2) The older infant stage where Sarah liked watching the pets, but wasn't mobile and couldn't get to them
3) The mobile baby stage which was AWFUL and we had three incidents where our dog bit Sarah

And now....the toddler stage where Sarah HATES our pets and is totally jealous of them!

If a cat sits in my lap to get patted, she runs over and HITS the cat to get them out of my lap. If the dog is lying on my feet, she runs over a yells at the dog to get her to move.

Is this typical? I have tried from a very, very young age to impress on Sarah that we are always nice to the pets, we touch them gently, etc. but she really just seems to hate them at this point. I correct this behavior, but nothing seems to work.

The dislike is pretty mutual though. The poor dog now runs when she comes near and the cats, never particularly enamored of her are now actively avoiding her.

Any thoughts? When will she outgrow this?

trumansmom
10-21-2003, 03:51 PM
No advice, just sympathy. Whenever either of our cats walks into the room Truman will start yelling, "No, Liza(my Siamese), NO!" I feel terrible about it. He used to be so gentle and pet them both nicely, but not anymore. Hopefully it's just a stage.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and EDD 4/23/04!

muskiesusan
10-21-2003, 05:09 PM
We are lucky that Nick loves our dogs and they, well, tolerate him and pretty much let him do whatever he wants to them. However, if DH and I show affection towards each other, he runs over and starts yelling at us, actually as if we were the dogs bahaving badly (pointing and saying no or bad). I am clueless as to why this is happening, its not like we never hugged before the past month or so!

Susan
WAHM to Nicholas 10/01/01
& Baby #2 due 4/23/04!!!!

christic
10-21-2003, 05:43 PM
This is just starting with Alice. She's starting to get upset and yell when the cat gets near her toys! And I'm not sure what the cause or the solution is because she still seems to get really excited and happy to see the cat at other times, and asks and asks to see the cats upstairs when we're at my parents. We have had some scratches though, but these are times when Alice is trying to get too friendly and the cat is trapped somehow (in a chair with arms for example).

So it does seem typical to me and sort of like sibling rivalry...but have no clue what to do about it unfortunately. All I know is that my husband wants a dog in the spring and I'm telling him no way!!!

megsmom
10-22-2003, 05:42 AM
I think the jealously thing in general is quite normal at this stage. Since they are possessive about toys, why not their favorite person in the world? Just curious, does Sarah do the same thing if Adam is showing attention to the animals? We don't have animals, but Meg has recently gone through a phase of being rude with family members wanting to talk with me, pay attention to me, etc. It wasn't so much hitting but Meg running around pointing fingers saying "No, no Grandma!" and sometimes attempting to push the person out of the room. She even started doing this to my husband if he should come into room while we're playing. With my mom it got particularly bad, and my mom had to finally resort to telling Meg she couldn't have her new playdough unless she was nice to her. What a tantrum, but it worked well.

I've corrected her on this numerous times and it has gotten a lot better. It should be very interesting to see how she reacts to the new baby in a few weeks who Mommy is obviously going to give some attention! :)

Jen
mom to Meghan 7/13/01
and #2 EDD 11/12/03

trumansmom
10-22-2003, 02:26 PM
Jen-

I'll be interested to hear how Meg does with the new baby, because it looks like Truman will be the same age Meg is now when our new one arrives! Keep us posted!

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and EDD 4/23/04!

Kate888
10-27-2003, 07:59 PM
We have a huge dog (105 lbs) in the house, so I've been paying close attention to the interaction between Maya and the dog. At the earlier stages, all we needed to do was to prevent him from sitting on her or knocking her over. Now being a toddler, she loves to explore his body by tugging on his ears, tail, poking on his nose or putting her hands in his mouth. Luckily, he is very laid-back and even tolerates her sitting on his back when he is on the floor.

We tried to involve Maya in Polo's daily activities. One reason is to establish her "hierarchy" in the pack, so Polo sees her as someone above him (and won't take the cookie out of her hand). It also helps Maya understand that Polo is someone she can take care of, like her baby doll. She is very into feeding him, saying "o.k." so he can eat, giving him biscuits and brushing his hair. She also likes to "cook" for him and Elmo. Would Sarah enjoy activities like this? I was thinking maybe she will take them "under her wings" in some way...the animals will love the attention, too.

HTH a little :)

Kate
Mama to Maya 2-17-02

colinml
11-22-2003, 04:33 AM
>3) The mobile baby stage which was AWFUL and we had three
>incidents where our dog bit Sarah


uh...

I just sort of stumbled upon this thread while looking for something else, and I don't read these boards often. Forgive me for stomping in like a know it all, but no one else appears to have noticed this part of your post. If your dog has indeed bitten your infant child three times, you have a serious problem on your hands, a time bomb, in fact.

I don't think it is unusual for toddlers to go through a phase of being mean to pets. I mean, they are just barely able to start standing up to pets, so it seems reasonable that they need to sort out their feelings of new found power. But you don't have a typical situation if your dog has already demonstrated that he will bite the child. You need professional help to determine the seriousness of this problem, and to correct the problem, if correction is possible. Has this dog ever been aggressive with others? Nipping, growling? In many jurisdictions, three bites means euthanasia. I'm not recommending you euthanize your dog; I'm just offering a little perspective. It's a huge thing that your dog has bitten your child.

I don't say these things to freak you out, but you need to be very concerned about this. I am a dog lover who has a 100+ lb German Shepherd and an 18 month old toddler. German Shepherds are known for their naturally protective instinct. He will bark ferouciously at a stranger coming uninvited into our back yard, but he is absolutely calm and gentle around children. This is how a well socialized dog behaves. He knows the difference between appropriate expression of aggression (barking at strangers), and inappropriate expression of aggression (biting a member of his family). I spent a number of years working with search and rescue dogs, and, while I'm not a professional, I do know something about training and dog behaviour.

Your dog has already crossed the line. It's irrelevant whether the bites were mild or severe. I would say the same thing if the dog merely acted like he was going to bite (growling), and didn't even touch your child. The important thing is the willingness to be aggressive toward your daughter. It may be that your dog isn't clear that your child is above him in the pack order, and that means that he will eventually interpret some action on the part of your child as a threat to his station, and he will lash out...again. Note that I say "will" not "may." That might just be the time when your child has her face down on the floor, perhaps right after getting the dog angry by doing the things you describe in your post.

Don't be fooled into thinking that because your dog now runs away from your daughter that he is no longer a threat. It might mean that he now understands that she is above him in the pack order, or it might not. It might be that he is avoiding the confrontation that must inevitably come when he must "defend" his pack order. You should seperate the dog from your child until you have consulted with a professional, someone who has extensive experience in dog/human aggression.

Don't take my word for it, call any respected professional dog trainer and tell them that your dog has bitten your child three times. Listen carefully to the reaction.

Best wishes,
Colin

egoldber
11-22-2003, 01:30 PM
Well, I appreciate your perspective. But just to give some background, the biting incidents happened nearly a year ago. There were 3 closely spaced incidents, after the last of which I gave the dog a collar correction that left NO DOUBT that aggression toward DD was NOT an acceptable behavior. Some people might consider that too harsh, but for us it was either that or euthanize her.

I think you are absolutely right that our dog definitely viewed DD as lower than her in the "pack" hierarchy. A big part of the problem is that my DD crawled for a long time, she was a VERY late walker. Once she started walking, it was much clearer to the dog that she was "human" and above the dog. So I am now at the point where I do feel somewhat comfortable with the situation, but I am always vigilant. This is also a 25 pound corgi, not a 100 pound German Shepherd. Also she has never, ever shown any agression to another human being except for these incidents (two of which were over food, and one of which was when my newly toddling DD fell on the dog while the dog was sleeping and startled her awake).

But if I gave the impression that we took these incidents lightly, that was defintiely NOT the case. We gave much long, serious and agonizing thought as to what to do about the dog. We considered euthanizing her. We considered giving her up for adoption. But the likelihood that someone would adopt a dog that was 10 years old and with a history of aggression toward children was pretty slim. Add to this that my dog subsequently nearly died from auto-immune hemolytic anemia, a disorder from which she is no in remission, but is considered at risk for relapse. She is pretty much unadoptable at this point. And we were not ready to euthanize her yet.

I do know something about dog training. My dog has the first obedience title and one leg toward her second (I got too busy to continue training her). She has a very solid and reliable sit and down, which I consider essential for any well-mannered house dog. If there are any subsequent incidents, we will certainly consult some sort of professional for advice. But I have learned some lessons: keep the dog and DD separated while cooking (the source of 2 incidents) and NEVER slack up on the dog's continuing obedience training (which I had done).

In retrospect, I realize that this particular dog was NOT the best choice for us. Her basic personality is very dominant. She is very food aggressive and has a strong prey drive. I wish I had better known what I was doing when we selected a pet 10 years ago. But I didn't and here we are. I am not one of those people who believe that their pets are like their children. My dog is a beloved companion, but not like a child to me. But at the same time, I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt given the amount of time it has been since the last incident.

Some thoughts,

Mommie2MadLyn
11-22-2003, 01:42 PM
I totally agree with Colin. That is so scary!!! I don't have a dog at all right now, so I am certainly not going to try to be a Know-it-all, but I did grow up with dogs so I have some knowledge of their behavior. Actually,this is exactly why I don't have a dog right now. My MIL has a German Shepard X that bit my DD a few months ago. Thank God it was not too serious of a bite, but it did break the skin on her hand which is serious enough!! She is not allowed to go to my MIL's house anymore unless the dog is put outside or in the garage. I just am so fearful for your child too! This is a horrible story, but my Grandmother's neighbor had a dog that was always very gentle, or at least seemed to be with children. There were children who lived in the house with the dog, and one day for no apparent reason, the dog snapped and bit the 3year old daughter in the back of her head!! It was very serious and the child was hospitalized for weeks with head injuries that could have been life threatening. She recovered thankfully. Please be very careful and watch for any signs of aggression that your dog may be showing and get professionals to evaluate what needs to be done as far as training. Good Luck.

colinml
11-22-2003, 04:16 PM
Hi Beth,
Thanks for the explanation. It sounds like you have it completely under control. You know why the incidents occurred, and you are monitoring. I was reacting to the apparent casualness when you mentioned the bites, and I assumed that meant that you were casual. Sorry for assuming something I shouldn't have. I should have given you the benefit of the doubt.
Colin