Procion dyes question... odd results

[caheinz]

OK, I'm trying to make some play silks. Several sets -- one for DS, the rest for gifts.

I did orange over the weekend, and they look gorgeous -- I'm amazed at how well this dye works!

I did blue today, and am very confused. I did six scarves, and three are purple, and three are blue. (The exact shade I got was Lapis, so it's not a purple-y blue!) The first three to go in are the ones that are purple -- they started that way and never lightened. The blues are much lighter, started that way and never changed. I did forget the casolene oil -- can that be the cause? I don't think anything else was different!

I'm just now washing them, but I don't expect any change, since they didn't change at all after rinsing...

Any ideas????

Thanks!

[californiagirl]

Hmmm. I didn't use casolene oil on the silks I did (I did the microwave thing). The only thing I can think of is that the blues are sometimes starred colours (ones that need more dye and/or different fixers).

[caheinz]

Many thanks for the quick reply, but...

I was careful not to choose a blue that had a star. (I think my green does, but I couldn't find a green without it... actually, I think it's a "T", which is 2xs the dye.) And, all my dyes are weighed out exactly based on the numbers for each dye and the exact weight of the scarves... I'm a professor/scientist at a small college and used my spiffy new balance to weigh them all out! (Things in the lab are slow, so I haven't gotten to use my new toys much...)

The silks are all washed and dried now, and they look quite odd. The first one in is deep purple, the last one, light blue -- the others are in between. And the blue ones definitely have red spots... I think one of the middle blues is actually the shade it's supposed to be.

I did the vat method. I stirred every 4 minutes in the first 20, and less often after. I even "stirred" by using gloves and getting in there to make sure things got mixed up!

Well, I just placed an order with Dharma for dye remover... DH looked and agreed with me, and the removing stuff is only $2.25 for as much as I need, and I have waaaaay more of the Procion dyes than I need to do 6 scarves! So, it won't hurt to try again. (Of course, they're big 44" square ones, so it's worth spending some more time!)

So, well, I also took advantage of placing another order and added some scarves, a skirt, and a top to dye for myself! (The shipping was the same as for the $2.25 item alone, so I was encouraged by that to look around... and, well, DH is asleep already...) (I've been a "closet" Dharma fan for years, and just found the perfect excuse to finally try the dyes!)

[tarabenet]

This may be a dumb question but are you sure that your silks were at least washed/clean, with no sizing, softener, etc., or better yet, PFD? (Prepared For Dyeing) Dharma does sell blanks for embroiderers, etc, too, so maybe some lines are PFD and others aren't?

I'm guessing that the scarves are pretty, even if not quite what you had in mind! If you really don't like them, you could probably sell them as "special hand-dyes"!

Benet

[caheinz]

I washed all the scarves in Synthrapol before I started! I bought 3 sizes, and all were in the same washing machine load... And all were bought off of the same page, and I don't remember seeing any marked as being PFD or not...

My goal is to get these done for Christmas gifts, so I'm only doing a little at a time. I'll probably try color #3 this weekend... I'm going to try the color remover on the "blue" ones when it arrives, and if they do something odd again, I'll just enjoy the variety... (But since all but one set will be gifted, I'm trying for them all to look nice... some of the recipients' parents aren't all that likely to understand the value of them (I'm sure the kids will enjoy them!), so I am trying to make them look nice...)

[tarabenet]

I think that is really sweet of you! I hope your friends are able to recognize the value, the effort, and the beauty of your gift. I'm sure your DC's friends will love them.

I wish I had some ideas for you! I've done colorwash dyes, for the appearance of tesxture, landscape backgrounds etc., which is just not the same at all as colid-color dyeing. But your results seem very strange to me. Good luck!

Benet

[californiagirl]

Have you tried asking the folks at Dharma? They seem like they stand by their products, maybe they'll know. It does sound like an exhausted dyebath towards the end though (but why would it be funny at the beginning?) Did you use tap water or distilled?

[caheinz]

I used tap water for all of them so far. Since it's between 0.25 and 0.6 lbs per batch, it seems like a lot of distilled water to use!

Would that affect one color more than others? The orange ones were VERY consistent... They were smaller scarves, but my dye is weighed out to match the weight of the scarves. Am I right in thinking that some things (salt, soda ash) are matched to the amount of water, and others (dye) are matched to the amount of fabric?

It was almost like the first scarves grabbed too much dye, leaving too little for the ones at the end...

Ugh, need to work tonight. But I'll try to take a pic tomorrow or over the weekend. The color range is amazing -- I can't believe they were all done at once.

[californiagirl]

Different colours are different chemicals, so yeah, tap water (and the pH thereof) would influence them differently.

As I understand it, you match everything to the weight of the fabric -- that is, you calculate how much dye it takes for the fabric, and then you make up that much dye, keeping the ratio of powder to water to salt to soda ash consistent except for changes for different colours (so the starred colors have more dye powder for a given amount of water and/or more salt depending on what the table says).

[Saartje]

Did you do the blue scarves in the same container you dyed your orange scarves in? I'm wondering if there was a residue of the red dye from your orange batch in the container -- that *might* give the results described, with the first several scarves taking the red (to make them purple), and it being exhausted by the time you got to the last scarves.

I'm sure the calsolene oil or lack thereof is not the cause; if it were, the scarves would be streaked. (As an aside, you really shouldn't need calsolene oil at all for scarves; it's more useful if you're dyeing large batches or thick fabrics, such as prefolds.)

[caheinz]

Ooops... forgot to keep track of this one!

I did use the same container. But, it's white on the inside. Shouldn't I have been able to see something if there was enough red/orange to make them purple?

I also think the last scarves weren't even as blue as they should have been...

I think when I re-do them, and do the other set of 40" scarves, I'm going to use much more water (and that that measures with the water).

Unfortunately, Dharma has never returned my email...

[samwyatt]

Hi Cheryl,

It's not uncommon to get varied results with certain colors. I use procion dyes from dharma a lot and have been for a few years. Certain colors... in particular the blues are hard to mix just right all the time. It's because the actual dyes themselves are mixes of certain colors... if you look closely at the dry dye you can see the mixes of the colors. Periwinkle is another color that can be really varied... sometimes it's blue, sometimes more purple. Also, do you use urea when you mix the dye.

Good Luck!
Amber

[caheinz]

Thanks, Amber!

It's good to know that this could just be the way the dye was... At any rate, DH did the color remover for me (while I finished dying other colors!), and lo and behold, they were blue at the end of that! Not the shade I had been going for, but an acceptable shade, especially not knowing what re-dying them would actually do!

Here's a pic of the final rainbow:


http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/32020.jpg


And they were very well received as gifts! (The kids fell in love with them right away!)

[Mikesa3]

The scarves look beautiful. I've had a pile of Dharma scarves siting here for 2 months and I haven't gotten brave enough to dye them.Hopefully soon I'll try.(I didn't get any of the Dharma dyes so plan to buy some from Walmart or use koolAid)
Nancy-Mom to 6 great kids

[Saartje]

Cheryl, those look great. I'm really glad the dye remover had good results for you.

Just to add, I thought of this thread a few weeks ago when I was looking up something on the Dharma site, and saw that they noted that colors will break much more easily on silk than on cotton (that's the result you were getting — where it shifted to one end or the other of the spectrum, as a result of the dye being a mix of more than one chemical). So, it's nothing you did, just the result of that dye on that fabric.

[caheinz]

Oh, cool! That's good to know.

So, where does rayon fall? I ended up ordering a couple of blanks (skirt + shirt) with the dye remover, and still haven't decided what color to do. (Don't really have the time to play with it now, either!) If the blue might turn out more as expected...