I am going CRAZY how does a bay learn to fall asleep on their own

[TraciG]

I wish I knew, I have been dreading going anywhere, went to my parents this weekend, they set up the 10 year old swing they have there for Sydney to take her naps in like she does at home well of course there it barely worked, she slept the first day in it for about 20 minutes, yesterday a little longer thank God, I Really dont know what to do, the sleep books aren't helping because at night she also needs to comfort suck a MILLION times, I CANT take it anymore, dont know what will happen with Passover coming, we're going to be invited a lot that week to relatives, YUK going to have a very cranky , crying baby,will try not ot stay late but we'll have to go. I am thinking about calling my doc to ask their opinion, the one doc said to just put her in the crib but I know she'll scream & wont even know why she's there, I dont remember what a full night of sleep is anymore !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sometimes think at the beginning maybe i should have let her cry a little in the crib because now that she's older it will be harder , she will be 5 months in a week !

[Chelsey333]

I don't think you are too late to start now (maybe too late for this weekend), but not to establish good sleep patterns. Start putting her in the crib and leave the room for 4-5 minutes. Then go check on her, but don't stay in her room long, just make sure she is ok. Leave again and don't go back for 5-6 minutes. Each time you go back, you wait a little longer. Don't pick her up and rock her unless she is sick of course. If you keep at it, you will probably have a great sleeper in the next month or 2. Does she take a pacifier, bec that might help the night sucking issue?

[egoldber]

The undfortunate truth Traci is that some babies are not good sleepers. Some babies soothe very easily and some don't. But I think that MOST babies don't learn to fall asleep on their own until at least 5-8 months. My DD, who I consider to be a VERY good sleeper, didn't fall asleep without nursing to sleep until between 5 and 6 months, and even then not consistently until 7-8 months. So I know you are SO tired, but Sydney's patterns are not that uncommon.

You should read "The Fussy Baby Book"
https://www.askdrsears.com/store/detail.asp?pid=18

and also "Raising Your Spirited Child"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060923288/qid=1079981780/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/104-7949004-3434368?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Reading books for average or easy babies is only give to make you nuts.

Good luck with the family!!!

[stillplayswithbarbies]

Traci, you have been given a lot of advice on these boards, it would help us to help you if we knew what you have tried so far and how well it worked. Which of the suggestions you have been given about her sleep have you tried and how did it work out for Sydney?

Which sleep books have you read and what parts of them have you tried and what didn't work for you? (I know that Elizabeth Pantley No Cry Sleep Solution directly addresses the night nursing in babies who cosleep and those who don't)

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[tinkerbell1217]

I honestly don't know how you are doing it, it would be driving me crazy too! Both m,y kids were great sleepers, thank God, but I do have a friend whose DD was just not a good sleeper at all. She endured months of battles and sleepless nights. It was better when they finally decided to let her sleep in bed with them. I honestly don't agree with co sleeping, but hey, whatever works for you! Some babies just go through stages like that and then suddenly they are fine. My friend would start the sleep process with her DD around 7PM and she would lie down with her and nurse for awhile til she fell asleep. She would usually wake up after an hour or so, mostly because mom would get up so mom would go back in and soothe her back to sleep with comfort nursing. She never slept in her crib, ever. She was in the cradle from her first days home til 4 months and then they tried the crib, but it wasn't working. So, after a month or so of that they pulled her into bed with them and things started to settle down. It took awhile, but she is fine now. She still sleeps with them and she just turned 3 in January. They are thinking by 4 they will have her in the bunkbeds with big brother. He slept with them til 4 also so at one point, they had both kids in bed with them. I honestly don't know when they had time for each other! :)

I am of the old mindset that a child should have their own space to sleep. Mainly because of my mom and grandmas infuence. I briefly slept with my DD while going through my divorce and PG with DS and it was nice to have her close to me for comfort reasons, but I never got enough sleep! She would twist and turn and kick me all night!!! So, after a month or so I put her back in her own bed and she was fine, I was fine and we both slept better.



As for your family stuff coming up, DON'T let anybody dictate your schedule but YOU and your baby!!! Thats whats important! Remember that!!


Will she take a pacifier?? My DD loved hers and it did the trick alot of nights when she might have been overtired or cranky. My DS NEVER liked it, but he was an awesome sleeper from almost the beginning. I was very lucky!

Good luck to you and I hope things calm down soon. I know the sleepless nights are so very hard!!! At only 5 months she really does still need the comfort and closeness of you.

Kelly

[Momof3Labs]

Traci, you said that you were going to work on getting her on a schedule last week (and remember, that isn't a one week process, it takes many weeks). What kind of schedule did you try, and how did it work?

[deborah_r]

There have been some good questions asked - I think we need more information if we are going to be able to come up with some advice. I'm wondering, on average, how much sleep does Sydney get? How much for naps, and how much at night?

[Jen in Chicago]

Jude is not a great sleeper, but the early bedtime from Dr Weisbluth has helped my sanity. He goes longer b/n wakings and starts his day HAPPY.

[lisams]

ITA with Beth - some babies just ARE by nature better sleepers than others. It has nothing to do with your parenting skills and is not a reflection of what kind of parent you are. DD is unfortunately one of those high needs babies in the sleep department. I know that you are tired and feel like there is no light at the tunnel. I know you feel like people are judging you, and you wonder what is wrong with your DD when you hear about other babies sleeping so great. I know because I have been there, but let me just say that things will get better as your DD matures. At around 8 months DD began going to sleep better and staying asleep longer. Lack of sleep is one of those things that comes with having a high needs baby, and yes it is very unfair, but it does get better and there is a light at the end of the tunnel!! Sorry I have no real advice, but just wanted you to know that you are not alone in the lack of sleep department!

Lisa

[lizajane]

at the risk of losing friends...

read weisbluth and try CIO.

BUT!!!! you HAVE TO BE CONSISTANT. you HAVE TO HAVE A ROUTINE. you can't just stick your baby in a crib and let her cry every time you think it would be convienient for her to sleep.

FIRST, you have to watch her for a few days to see when she is tired so that you know you are putting her down at the right times for her to sleep. and you have to make sure that it is not too hot, too cold, she is not teething, she is not gassy, etc, etc. READ WEISBLUTH. do not try CIO without it.

and very important- do not let her be awake for more than 2 hours at a time. at 5 months, schuyler STILL only stayed awake for 2 hours or LESS at a time.

[TraciG]

my sister-in-law also mentioned that one, when I go back to Border's to return to sleep books I bought i'll get this one, thanks

[TraciG]

been going to bed earlier with her at night, that's about it so far & giving her a massage & bath at night to make her sleepy.

[TraciG]

in the morning 2-3 hours and sometimes 2 more times in the day , the second nap could be about an hour & a half to two hours if she takes another nap maybe an hour but I am beginning to think she should be in bed by then but I dont know if I can go to bed 7,8 or 9 :00

[TraciG]

also, usually an hour & 45 minutes to 2 hours then it's nap time, now she rubs her eyes so it makes it much easier to know when she's tired, it is true when u see that their tired if get them the right time they fall asleep much quicker !

[TraciG]

I really just started trying to get a routine established by giving Sydney a massage & bath at night & going to bed earlier & also telling my hubby we're not going anywhere. I also just started trying to trick her with a pacifier instead of my boob because I feel if she can use one to fall asleep then maybe eventually I can mover her to the crib, I want to try the pacifier at night but when she wakes up in the middle of the night I wont be able to use it because I wont know if she needs to eat or just comfort suck & at night is the only time I nurse, I really dont want that to end, so far though the pacifier only worked once. The goal is to see if she'll take it then maybe have her sleep in our bed but alone, not in my arm then a little later move her to the crib, I dont know if it will work , I got the idea from reading the secrets of the baby whisperer because they say to replace one habit for another so I figure instead of my boob the pacifier. In that book it tells a story about a family that had their son sleep with them & then they just put him in the crib & let him CIO but he became terrified of his crib because of how they did it so that makes me not thrilled with the idea of just putting Sydney in there like most people suggest ( my mother, one of the docs in the practice I go to ) and I dont think I could stand to hear her cry & actually she would scream.

I havent read the 2 books I got fully, I got the Ferber book & Weissbuth , which I kind of find boring, I am REALLY liking the BaBy whisperer book, it's not just about sleeping though. I will look for the NO Cry Sleep Sloution.

I appreciate all your responses as ALWAYS

[papal]

Traci, 3 naps a day for a 5 month old sounds excellent. And the fact that she is napping for an hour or more each nap is very good! And the fact that you have a nighttime routine with massage and bath is awesome!

I have a couple more questions:
1. When she naps during the day, do you have to do anything to enable it? Nurse her? Lie next to her? Swaddle her? Or does she just fall asleep by herself?
2. Can you say at what time she wakes up every day and what time her naps usually are?
3. When you say YOU have to go to bed at night with her... i am not quite sure i understand? Will she not sleep unless you are lying next to her? If she falls asleep and you quietly leave the bed, does she wake up also?

You are doing great mama! Hang in there!

[Momof3Labs]

Traci, it sounds to me like you have a great napper and a poor nighttime sleeper - I had just the opposite, naps are STILL a struggle here! That's pretty common to have one or the other.

An earlier bedtime (at that age, Colin went to bed between 6 and 6:30pm) might help a LOT - you didn't say how early she is going to bed now, but when we implemented that advice from Weissbluth, Colin's sleep in general improved a lot (over a few week period - it doesn't happen in one day).

[TraciG]

that's where she naps, only place she can sleep which is VERY bad because when we're out she cant sleep, she needs the motion, I think she sometimes has 3 naps because we go to bed late, well between 10:00 & 11:00, but now i'm trying to come up earlier since I HAVE to go to sleep when she does. She falls asleep on top of me comfort sucking ( I have hardly any milk ) then I gently lay her next to me in my arm & that's how we stay until she starts moving around later then she's on top of me & this goes on a lot, she has gas a lot at night, pains, it seems the formula she's on isn't worling so great, also now on zantac.

I just started the massage & bath at night but dont know if i'm going to have to change back to the daytime becaus emy husband gets home late & we eat dinner late, I cant decide & feel bad because I know i'm supposed to have a routine, same time etc.

Tra

[lizajane]

after reading the additional information you posted, it doesn't sound like you need to use CIO. i was thinking that she wouldn't nap and wouldn't go to bed. but it sounds like she is doing just fine, really. if she can't sleep when she is out, then you may just not be able to go out. you probably don't sleep well when you are out, either!

[papal]

Traci,
Have you tried:
- Swaddling her nice and tight
- Darkening the room

If she has reflux then laying on her back may be very uncomfortable for her (maybe that is why she prefers the swing). Can you try letting her sleep on her left side? This helps Leela a lot and she has reflux.
But if she has reflux then please let us know (unless you have and i missed that post!).

[s_gosney]

Traci-
I am way late joining in here, but I always read all of your posts and the replies you get. I've never really said anything because I've never felt I have much advice to offer, after all, I'm right there with you. My 5 mo old DD and sydney have quite a bit in common. We also ended up cosleeping as basically a means of survival. It was totally unplanned; it just happened because it was the only way we could get any sleep. For the first 3+ months, Kylee would not sleep longer than 30 minutes without being held, so that meant I also held her for all of her naps. She's gradually gotten a little better. Sometimes she'll take a good nap, sometimes she won't. And it is very frustrating. But, if my DD only napped in the swing, I would definitely stick with what was working. And if you can put her in there while she's awake and she'll go to sleep on her own in there, I think that's great. I know the sleep gurus disagree, but sometimes you just have to stick with what works, IMO.
As for night time issues...my DD also loves to comfort suck at night. I know that she is capable of going much longer b/w nursing than she does at night, but when she wakes up in the middle of the night, the quickest way to get her (and me!) back to sleep is just to give her what she wants. Is this a bad habit? I don't know honestly. A lot of people would say so, and sometimes I fear that I'm setting myself up for problems later, but I've got to survive now to get to later IFKWIM. :) The way I see it, I can either let DD suck when she wants to, or I'll probably be pacing the halls with her at 3 am, so I opt for multiple nursing sessions every night. BTW, Kylee doesn't take a pacifier at all either, so I sympathize with you there. She can be asleep and if I take her off the breast and try to sneak a paci in, she will always wake up. Our girls just seem to really know what the want, I guess.
Okay...that was all just to say that I understand where you're coming from and to let you know that you are not alone. No one ever tells you that "sleeping like a baby" is full of hooey. For some reason, people never talk about the hard parts of having a baby. Everyone is forever telling me "Oh, I miss my daughter being that little"....and it has a way of making you feel bad for not loving every minute of babyhood.
Anyway, on to more practical advice. I don't know how to tell you to fix Sydney's sleeping issues, so all I have to offer are some changes in my mindset that have helped me.
1. I really had to change my thinking that Kylee's sleeping habits were something to be fixed. One of the books I've read (I think Dr. sears) said that it's important to remember that you can't make a baby go to sleep. All you can do is make the environment one that makes them want to go to sleep or feel comfortable going to sleep. Just changing the way I thought about it really helped me to feel less like a failure and less like I was taking one giant test. This allowed me to relax and I think that helps K to relax.
2. I had to consciously shut down my brain. I'm a person who will drive myself nuts with the what ifs (eg "what if I don't get her out of our bed by x months? She'll never sleep on her own"). Worrying about all of this doesn't do any good, so I just decided to stop doing it. At this point I know that Kylee is not ready for the crib and that putting her in there would cause all of us to lose lots of sleep for who knows how long, so we just keep on with what's working for now.
I don't think that most babies are able to put themselves to sleep by 5 months, though I have several friends whose babies do. I can't pretend I'm not envious of that, but I will say that those babies all fall asleep with a pacifier in their mouth, so really it's no different from falling asleep at the breast IMO. It just seems like it b/c mom isn't attatched.
Okay...last paragraph, I promise. :) If sydney sleeps well in the swing, then maybe you could let her nap in there from her bedtime until you're ready to go to sleep. Most people who cosleep put their baby somewhere (crib, bassinet, etc) during that time, and if the swing is what works, I say go for it. What I've written here is just my opinion and what I'm doing. It's probably not for everyone, and maybe not the "right" thing to do, but it's what's working for us...for today at least. I hope that something I've said in this novel will help you, or at least help you find some measure of comfort in knowing that others of us are going through similar situations and that sydney not sleeping well doesn't mean something is wrong with you or with her. I've had to resolve myself to the only certainty I've found in this whole situation: Babies defy logic. :) Try to take care of Sydney and yourself and don't beat yourself up over this. I'm so sorry this is forever long...I just sympathize with you, so I have a lot to say I guess. There's no magical solution, but that doesn't mean we can't keep hoping! :)

[22tango]

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with Sherri!!! :D

I remember when Karenna was Sydney's age! From the start, she slept in her bassinette or with us until she was 7 months old! I had intended for her to sleep in the bassinette (in our room) until transitioned to the crib in her own room, but we found just like you, that she slept better with us when in our bed. But she was still waking every 2-3 hours all night long to nurse. Of course I was very tired, and I know you must be, but that's just where we were and what she needed at that stage.

Around 5 1/2 months I remember travelling to my ILs house for a vacation and Karenna was so messed up by being somewhere new that she was waking every 1-2 hours to nurse all night long (6-7 times per night)! I was a ZOMBIE from lack of sleep by the time we left 10 days later. She was the same a month later when we went to see my parents in Seattle (3 hour time difference). So I DO know that unfamiliar surroundings and shifted schedules can REALLY mess a baby up!!

Like Sherri, some advice (which I read in The No-Cry Sleep Solution) helped me to put things into perspective & carry-on, taking each day as it came. I had to ask myself if I considered our situation a PROBLEM because it was one, or because others made me think she should be sleeping like a champ at that age. Comparing babies made me want Karenna to be sleeping longer throughout the night, but I realized that if everyone else's babies were also waking like mine, I'd probably not think of it as a "problem", but rather just something to get thru.

Some things that helped me were to (1) keep repeating to myself "this too shall pass" for we all know that eventually it will! and (2) to try to do what I could to make myself & Karenna get the rest we needed. In the latter case, it was to try to get Karenna on a very predictable routine with things that are the most calming & sleep-inducing for her. For me, it was to forget about things like housework/etc.. and to NAP every time Karenna slept until I started feeling more rested myself. I also got some help and understanding from my DH so I could focus on those two things! After I got more rest, I felt more able to deal with helping Karenna.

When she got a bit older and co-sleeping wasn't working anymore (it was causing us all to get LESS rest instead of MORE), then we S-L-O-W-L-Y transitioned her to the crib. It took us 2 weeks to do that. I moved into her nursery with a futon mattress on the floor. I'd nurse her to sleep next to me and wait until she was ABSOLUTELY asleep & then gently move her to the crib. If she woke, then we'd go back to the mattress & repeat. I just kept doing that. Bit by bit, she'd sleep in the crib. Sometimes it would be just the first 3 hours, then later I could tranfer her in the middle of the night too. Finally, she'd let me put her in the crib, as long as I was still sleeping in the room too. Eventually she slept well enough in the crib that I could go back to our room for part of the night. She was still waking 3-4 times per night, but as long as I'd get up and come nurse her, it was all okay. She didn't start sleeping mostly thru the night until about 9 months when we tried some of the techniques from Weissbluth and she started waking only ONCE per night (Bliss!!)

Now, I'm happy to say, that since very recently (17 months), she sleeps the WHOLE NIGHT thru!! YAY!!! So "this too shall pass" has come True, and I kept my sanity while getting thru it. I REALLY hope you can too!