Building a stash on 3 oz. per session...

[ntrainer]

After a week of trying everything under the sun to get little Rachel to take a bottle, we seem to have found the right combination of bottle, nipple, and routine. This morning Rachel took 3 oz. of EBM. That's the good news.

The bad news is that all this experimenting has emptied the meager EBM stash I had in the freezer, she was still hungry after 3 oz., and my pumping session after this morning's feeding (pumping for 15 min. on each side) only netted 3 oz.

Help! Am I going to be spending the next few weeks doing nothing but pumping after every feeding session in order to get enough milk for a few bottles? This seems counter-productive to me. My goal was to have enough milk in reserve so that DH and I could possibly have a night out and get a babysitter (namely, grandma) to give Rachel a bottle. But if it's going to take 'round-the-clock pumping just to ensure Rachel's bottle-feeding skills don't go away (I assume we need to keep feeding her at least every other day so she's bottle-ready when the time comes)... I'm just not sure whether I can do this! Suggestions?

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[Momof3Labs]

Well, first off, what kind of pump are you using?

Second, if you pump for a few minutes BEFORE a feeding, you will probably produce better, and will eventually train your body to make more milk (making pumping more EBM easier). You won't deprive your baby by pumping and then nursing - she'll still get what she needs; babies can nurse even after you think you've emptied your breasts with a pump (since breasts are never truly empty).

[ntrainer]

I'm using the Medela Pump in Style at full suction and full speed... shouldn't that basically maximize my output (without my spending thousands for a hospital-quality breast pump)?

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[Momof3Labs]

No, no, no - it is much better to imitate your baby's sucking pattern when pumping. Try starting at high speed, lowest suction and once you start getting a letdown, switch to slowest speed and the highest suction you can handle (shouldn't be painful). Once the letdown ends, you can switch again until you get another letdown, if you want. Watch your baby's sucking patterns next time she nurses - she doesn't nurse at full suction, full speed, I bet!

[quikeye]

Is it possible to have babe nurse on one side and pump on the other? Just enough to rebuild a stash? For us, I have the best luck pumping when ds is feeding on one side (I always have a little letdown on the other; I usually just press and hold for it to stop, but I notice when I pump I have much more of a productive output/letdown than when babe's not feeding.) I usually only do this when I really get nervous about my stash or I need to pump a really consistent quantity during the day. I could do it all of the time, but ds has been super grabby lately and adding that to the inconvenience factor I don't always do it. But it is a great way to jumpstart my pumping :) (I use an Ameda PY, by the way).

Otherwise, I pump first thing in the morning in order to get my largest output of the day-- before babe wakes up & feeds. I got that advice from the boards and it really did make a difference in my output for the day.

I'm also not sure of you *need* to give a bottle every other day in order for babe to get used to it; I thought one a week would be enough (we were lazy with bottle introduction and justgot lucky that @ 6 months he takes it with no fuss, so I don't have any advice as far as that goes... but I thought I read it took only 1 a week to establish a good routine...?)

If you're really worried about quantity, you may want to read up on galactagogues... http://kellymom.com/herbal/milksupply/herbal_galactagogue.html I haven't tried them, but I have eaten oatmeal (cookies! yeah!) and had extra glasses of water on those days/times I've worried about my supply falling off... I don't know for sure if it worked, but I always felt my supply was fine after eating some oatmeal cookies :)

Good luck! (And definitely try different settings on the pump; I used to do full tilt too but I didn't get more and just ended up w/ sore nipples)...

[ntrainer]

This morning I pumped before feeding and only got 2-1/2 oz. -- from both sides, 15 min. per side. But I'm elated at the idea that I might only need to give Rachel a bottle once a week to keep up her bottle-feeding skills... Does anyone else have insight into this? It's taken a week to get her to take a bottle at all (granted, we introduced the bottle a bit late, at 7-1/2 weeks or so), so I don't want to undo all our hard work. Oops, I mean HER hard work. I'm already becoming one of those moms who things she should be congratulated for her child's achievements. :)

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[californiagirl]

The common advice is that you need at least 5 times a week, and I think it's probably right; we were doing OK when we were feeding that often, but now we have trouble getting her to take a bottle. Sorry.

But you don't have to give her a whole feed from a bottle. If I pump an ounce and a half, we feed her an ounce and a half, and then finish off from the breast. On practice ones you can do that just fine. So if you can pump 3 oz a day, you could easily get enough to be gone for one feeding in one week, even if you practice 5 times a week and feed her all of that day's pumping when you practice. And if you only feed her half the day's pumping, it'll build up even faster.

My DD takes less from the bottle from the breast, and takes it less often, even when she's being happy about bottles. So until recently, 3 oz was easily good for 6 hours away, as long as I fed right before leaving and as soon as I got back.

[Laurelsmom2002]

You arn't that late on introducing it so dont beat yourself up, I think we were at 3-5x a week at 1oz at each feeding- so a 3oz pump would last 3 days and the rest of the days were frozen. I froze 2oz in each bag only, since dd didn't eat as well, from bottle and would eat just enough until I got home and would gorge herself. But this method decreased the amt of wasted milk.
Drink a lot of water during the day/night to help, I havent experimented w/ fenugreek but I hear it can increase milk production. Also yeast will as well, so i would have an occasional O'douls after a feeding, ( yes a little alcohol, but it was after a feeding and I knew I had 2 hrs to metabolize) only the amber is drinkable in my opinion. and it would really help w/ production.
I don't have PIS experience, I was an Isis person myself, I would usually get 4-6 oz off one side in 10 min

[ntrainer]

Colleen, your advice about taking less at a bottle feeding is something I never thought of, and thanks for the encouragement... since Rachel took 3 oz. on Sunday and was still crying, my DH interpreted her cries as, "I'm still hungry" and insists that she needs 4 or 5 oz. in a feeding (notwithstanding the fact that my breasts' output clearly wouldn't match that). This, of course, started us on a downward spiral and led to a fight about how much I'll need to pump to keep up with her. Perhaps if we can use this strategy -- even feeding 2 oz. at a time with the bottle -- then I can deal with it. If we're feeding her every other day, then I can use the "off day" to build up a new stash of frozen EBM. If every feeding is 4-5 oz., though, then the "off day" would still be a catch-up day. I guess I'm steeling myself for another discussion with DH about this, but you've made an excellent suggestion that provides us with at least one good option I might be able to live with. I don't want to have to pump all day and night!

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[californiagirl]

1) You don't need to give a whole feed from a bottle for practice! And at that age, if you do give a whole feed from a bottle you need to pump when she gets the bottle, which will also help build your stash.

2) The amount you pump has nothing to do with the amount the baby gets. The baby is way more efficient than the pump. If you get more pumping after a feed than before, that's a sign it's a letdown issue, anyway, not a supply issue.

3) A 7 week old probably doesn't drink more than 3-4 oz a feed anyway, even from the breast. She may have been wanting to comfort nurse, or she might be an unusually hungry baby. Check out http://kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html