Consumer Alert: Special Statement from Denise & Alan on gowns held hostage

[JoAnne Schnepp]

This is EXCELLENT advice from Alan and Denise! We ALL need to help shake up this industry! Brides can get on board too. Write to Bill OReilly at FoxNews.com and ask them to get involved in bringing this to public attention. I already sent one email, but sometimes it takes actually hearing from the duped consumers to get them interesting in investgating.

It is CRAZy the way the full service bridal stores have the manufacturers by the 'short hair' all these years. As said above, DBS gave all these manufacturers hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years...and they didn't mind taking it. I read in another post that one manufacturer was now requiring brides to pay full retail plus a couple hundred in 'surcharges' and the reasonings was 'because DBS owes us $50,000 and we need to try to get it back however we can' or words to that effect! So, if true, that amount is recent sales to them from DBS, as this IS a pay as you go business! We have to assume that DBS was paying for gowns as recently as March anyhow!

Why should the bridal industry function any differently than any other retail industry? Why should they be allowed to remove tags, hide style numbers from brides, and do many of the other strange things that are done in this industry? And why should manufacturers cater to the bridal salons, yet deal 'under the table' with the discounters and pretend they don't? It needs to change. Brides can help by remember who provides good service and who doesn't and by telling other brides and raising awareness. Don't allow yourselves to be taken advantage of just because you are a one time customer. You deserve discounts if you want them...and personalized attention and full disclosure and the ability to shop around and not be pressed into making an emotional decision on your first visit anywhere.

Get on board with us and help make changes for the next bride. She may be your sister or best friend! Someday, maybe your daughter...and then it will be your checkbook affected one more time!

[KLBride2be2005]

I would like to inform the public that there are some bridal salons that are willing to help clients out during this difficult time. There is a handful of stores that will honor our DBS pricing. You just need to contact them. I will be more than happy to pass this list alomg to girls that are looking for information please contact me by email [email protected] and I will be more than happy to send this information out to you. I was able to get my dress and my bridesmaids dresses this way though a shop in another state.

[Jean dbsqueen]

I can't believe I'm doing this. I know I'm possibly opening myself up to a brutal attack. That being said, Joanne you are amazing. You will certainly continue to succeed in the bridal business. I was always impressed by you. That business about $50,00 dollars is a LIE and no one else will tell you. There is another post that an order for a Marisa dress was never placed, LIE. In reply to Alan and Denise's suggestion number #2, well let me tell you, I begged a certain manufacturer, someone I felt was also a friend as well as business acquaintance, to please release some 7 green dresses for a close wedding. I begged and said to ship them COD check, nope, they would not ship them. I cried as I hung up the phone that I had failed. I was so mad that all I could think was they're gonna get stuck with those dresses, those fools, and what am I going to do for this bride? I agree with Alan and Denise, I can't help you now but, to the brides, don't let anyone bully you. Do as Alan and Denise suggest, they are doing everything they can to help everyone involved. You don't deserve to be punished because you tried to save money. I hope I don't get into trouble for what I've said but how much worse could it get? Thank you Joanne, thank you Alan and Denise.
Jean dbsqueen

[Debra LaSpina Goldwater]

And how many FSBS have gone out of business and taken brides money and not been willing to help in the past???
At least I am proud to say that I, as a former DBS dealer am doing whatever I can to get my brides the dresses that they ordered, even if it means paying these FSBS top dollar. Some are being great and helping us out and we do appreciate that, but do not slam the DBS dealers, we are not the enemy!
I can sleep at night knowing that I have done everything possible to make my brides happy, even if it means taking a loss.

[Jean dbsqueen]

Amen Debra.
Jean dbsqueen

[Formerdealer]

How can you bash discounting when full-service stores go out of business all the time, leaving brides empty-handed? DBS used to take care of those brides! It is not discounting that causes these problems. There is room in the market for all kinds of competition. Right now it is swinging towards David's Bridal. In a couple of years it will change again. That's the nature of business.

Brides should not be punished and have to pay full price after already paying for their gowns. It will come back to haunt these manufacturers and retailers. Bad news and bad publicity travel like wildfire.

The Fields' offer wonderful advice to brides, and they're fortunate to have the advice and wisdom available to make better decisions for their weddings.

[stacij]

Jean - the information I posted about a Marisa dress not being ordered came from a friend that is a dealer who called Marisa on behalf of her bride and Marisa told her that the dress was never ordered. The bride paid in February. The owner told her that he would not allow DBS to place the order until they were current. I am not trying to bash anyone and the last thing I want to do is give information that is not true. We all (dealers) would like to know the whole truth about what has happened to lead us to this point, although I don't have a lot of faith that this will happen.

[Jaime Quinn]

I should have saved my money by not purchasing the stupid book by Denise and Alan, and spent the few extra bucks on my gown from the bridal store I orignally saw the dress I'm now struggling to get because of this DBS shutdown BS. You seriously did us brides wrong by advising to shop through discounters that couldn't afford to pay their bills. How far can discounting realistically go? Now I understand why shops charge what they do. I used their fitting rooms while they heated the place, they showed me color samples, gave me lots of options - I spent 3 hours in one of the bridal stores I went to. Then I went to some girl working out of her home (I met with her at a friggen Burger King, I was such an idiot!!) and now I don't have my dress and don't know if I'll ever get it. To top it off she said that she can't help me and that's it. I was supposed to save $300, but I don't have anything now and may have to buy a complete other dress (probably a sample) because it's too late to order a new one, while the store I orignally shopped is still in exsistance and I don't have the gall to go in there and ask for help now. I have nowhere to turn. I should have listened to my father who is a small business owner and works hard for every dollar he makes just like that shop I basically use (though it's hard for me to say, it's true). What a crock, discounters are NOT the way to go. What a mess this has all become. Good luck to all of us brides, I hope all of you have gotten farther than I have with this mess.

[Dear Stacij]

First, in response to an earlier comment you made, we did care and still do.
Second, as soon as "The powers that be" allow, (no longer Sandy and Lenny) I'm confident Sandy will make a personal statement to everyone. Someone else posted "there are three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth". Things aren't always how they look on the surface. If you wait for it, it will come. Right now things suck, big time. The Marisa thing, I promise you that information was misunderstood.
We will miss everyone dearly (even the dealers who are calling us names).

With much sadness
Jean dbsqueen

[Will try to help]

Hi Jamie,

I understand your fustration. I do not understand why your dealer would not try to help you. Who is the manufacturer? Did you call them? Did you receive a comparable gown? Was there a letter in the box with all of your information? I will try to help you locate the dress.

[Jean dbsquen]

Somebody help Jaime here. She totally misunderstood the DBS concept and apparently didn't really read the DBS section in the WONDERFUL Bridal Bargains Book. What was the DBS motto???? Anyone??? Deb, Staci, Audley, Karen, Joanne? I know your out there, defend yourselves, I'm spent.
Thank you
Jean dbsqueen

[JoAnne Schnepp]

Sounds like several of these brides are just plain frustrated and angry and don't know where to turn. I am in Tucson, Arizona and I will do MY best to help any bride out there who is NOT getting help from their DBS dealer. However, I doubt there are very many of them!

To the bride Jean refers to....DBS was a 'buying service'. The dealer's responsibility was to give the bride a price quote...policy was 3 maximum, although I am sure many of us gave way more than that to one bride at times. Then, it was our job to take the order, give the bride written info re: how to measure themselves properly so they could decide the size they wanted, collect the money and process the order. That was the extent of our responsibility as a DBS dealer. Of course, many of us had other offerings for the bride, and most of us offered those at discount prices also. I, for one, offered invitations, bridal accessories, a full array of reception supplies and favors. I contracted with about 10 other vendors for all those services. No bride would get all that at a full service salon. Plus, my husband is a wedding photographer and HE offered discounts to every bride of mine too! And most of us provided wedding planning assistance, help with budgeting. Some dealers were seamstresses also; some were certified wedding coordinators, some made veils or did make up....some offered shoes and crinolines and tuxedos.

But, the major differences all of us had over the FSBS is that we provided a very personalized service, and we were not a store employee...we were business owners. Of course, that is exactly most of us are taking in the shorts now, and putting our own money on the line as much as we can to help OUR brides. We don't have to do that. It's not part of our contract with DBS that we be obligated to help any bride right now. We even have that in writing. But...WE CARE!

So, please, if your own dealer isn't helping you...let us know. Any one of us will help. I will help anyone as I only had ONE bride left without a gown, and I have solved her problems already. My email is [email protected] if you want me to try to help...BUT...I will need the PO# from your DBS order sheet in order to do that. If you do not have that yourself, you will have to at least get that info from your DBS dealer.

Also, in my original comments...I did not mean to imply that EVERY FSBS was doing all that shady stuff. I only meant what I said...the whole industry needs to be shaken up by this. The double standard needs to go away. IF a bride wants a gown from a discounter, it shouldn't have to all be under the table. There's enough business here for everyone, and there's no need to be so cutthroat about it.
The manufacturers and salons that are gouging the brides now, will lose business, and they SHOULD lose business. There is NO reason to charge more than the wholesale price of the gown plus shipping to get it to them. In my opinion, even the FSBS, if they want to 'help', should be willing to forgo profits when all they are really doing here is clarifying previously placed orders and arranging shipping. They are not selling to the bride. The bride isn't in the salon trying on gowns for hours for her and the BMS. She is getting an ordered gown mailed to her. If she wants to use the store for alterations or to buy other items, THEN make the profits......but it is especially mean to make the bride pay retail all over again just to get what she already paid for.

And, Jean, we are all glad to see you in here! Good luck to you.

JoAnne

[jlyno98]

I am the dealer who had the Marisa dress that was "never ordered" in February. This is a slight mis-statement. I believe the order was technically "placed" since they had record of the PO number but they told the bride and me that they made it very clear to you that they would not begin production on this gown until payment was received. That, in my book, is the same as not placing the order. You took money in FEBRUARY and knew you would never deliver in time for her wedding. Now, in addition to buying this bride's gown, I am paying rush fees through another source since Marisa is less than cooperative. Along the same lines, I have an order for a "limited" gown that I ordered and paid for in May. It was not ordered. I spoke withe your source who said that they stopped accepting orders from you because of the money you owed them. What did you think was going to happen? Again, you took my money - not the bride's money, MY money and knew you would never deliver that gown in time for her wedding if at all. That is stealing. I am a pretty understanding person and when this first happened, my first reaction was to feel sorry for all of you. I am out several thousand dollars, but Sandy & Lenny are out much more. Then, when I hear things like that, I can't help but be angry! How foolish! You knew this day was coming. All of you at the service center are smart and you knew this was coming! Sandy & Lenny knew this was coming. Yet, you could continue to take our money and even encourage us to run our own charge cards to decrease your liability. There were excuses for every little thing that came up - the increase in shipping fees or in delivery times. What the hell was wrong with the truth!? Honestly, I think most of your dealers would have done whatever we could to help. Yeah, I believe that. We were as proud of DBS as all of you were. We were in this together. We have our own businesses and had our reputation and money on the line right along with you. If we were really your beloved dealers, you owed us the truth or at the very least, not such blatant lies.

[JoAnne Schnepp]

Could it not be possible that the staff working in the service didn't really know whether or not bills from manufacturers had been paid? Billing is usually done by a different source in most businesses...or at least a deparment that would not be located in the same place as the service people.

Personally I am not aware of any blatent lies that came to me from staff in the service center and I made several calls and emails to them between April and when I heard about this earlier this week.

[DIANA]

LET ME KNOW IF i CAN HELP YOU.

[bridesweb]

Jean:

Are you Jean from DBS??

Nancy in Florida
Former DBS Rep

[Left Holding the Bag]

I hate to say it, but I doubt it. If gowns were being held for non-payment, don't you think the manufacturer would mention it when the service center called for an update? When I called manufacturers before this story broke about a week ago during the 'vacation', they told me right away that they were holding my customers' gowns due to non-payment.

[Karen Franxman]

Denise and Alan, Thank you for being here for the brides and helping the DBS dealers.

When the manufacturers tell us that we do not have an account with them, we do not have one personally, but we were contracted by Martins/DBS, we worked for them as independent contractors, we have PO numbers from Martin's that match the orders that they have inhouse, so in a around about way we do have accounts with them for these orders in house and in production, them selling the dresses to the dealers with true Purchase Orders are not breaking any rules in my book,like you said they have make alot of money from Martins/DBS and that wasn't a problem. The dress manufacturers have the power thing reversed. Let the bridal stores that are lobby them not sell their goods, if the bridal stores stop selling dresses they will not have a store and they will be out of business. The dress manufacturers need to sit back in their offices and look at the strength of the DBS dealers and the passion we have for our customer. How many bridal salons across America have ever went to the trouble of getting their customers orders for them, I'd like to know.

I have one statement to make and that is -- - - -

"To the Bridal Stores of America! If you would be as concerned with the well fare of your customers (the brides) as you are about controlling the bridal manufacturers to punish the brides for having the consumers right to purchase their gowns where they like for the best possible prices, you would not have brides looking for better service and better prices. We always told our brides it is like shopping for a car, you go from dealer to dealer, to talk to a rep, you drive their sample cars, use their time and gas, and when you decide what manufacturer, make and model (style) you want, you call all the dealers and purchase your car from the dealer with the best price, that is what is great about living in AMERICA!! We never sent our customers to a store to shop, they always came to us freely usually, sent by a friend or family member that purchased their gowns at a savings. Who are these bridal stores to punish the public because they chose to use their consumer rights!!!! One thing about the DBS dealers that kept the customers coming to us, is that we truly cared about our customers!!!"

Bridal Market is coming up !!!! Brides should go to Las Vegas, Chicago and New York to let the bridal stores and manufactuers know how they feel about having their consumer rights taken away or controlled!

[Lori former DBS dealer]

Excellent, Karen! So true.....if the bridal shops offered the best service possible with one-on-one individual professional attention AND didn't sock the customer with above-retail pricing, the brides wouldn't have sought out a DBS dealer in the first place. There obviously was something missing in either of these arenas when a bride walked into a bridal shop, or DBS would not have ever been in business.

[Lynne Wisconsin]

We are all so saddened by all of this. I don't think I have ever cried for so many days. Yes, I know that life goes on. I will continue come hell or high water.

I miss the gals at the SC. They certainly are NOT to blame.

The bottom line is we want the best for our brides. I hope we can get what they ordered, but it has been a real struggle. I appreciate any info on other locations we can call to get these close weddings ASAP

Very sad in Wisconsin

Lynne
1637

[audley7575]

First of all, Jean, let me say I'm happy that you're part of this forum. And I have to say I'm surprised that there are not more dealers and SC reps involved in these discussions.

I'm not a part of this forum to bash ANYONE. I truly understand all sides of this issue.

To the FSBS: I understand your frustration and indignation at having a bride and all her family and friends (and often there are children running all over your salon, stepping on gowns, and touching them with dirty hands), trying on the gowns and leaving them on the floor and then leaving to buy their gowns elsewhere. Often brides will go to the FSBS knowing they are going just to check a size and then will order from DBS. I assure you, as dealers, we were trained to tell our brides to NOT do that and speaking personally, I never did encourage a bride to try it on first at a salon and then order through me. There was even one time when a bride saw a dress in a salon, came to me and said, "They have the dress in my size and it's for X amount of dollars", and if their price was slightly lower than mine, I told them to get it there, after all, it was in stock and she could have the peace of mind to not have the worry with having to order, do alterations, etc.

When our daughter, Christy, became engaged in early 2003, I had not yet heard about DBS. Since she really didn't have time to look (she was employed full-time and also lived in Birmingham, Alabama), I searched many bridal magazines and found the perfect one. Many of the
salons in our state did not carry sufficient inventory which was extremely frustrating, but I finally found the gown (in a larger size) at one of our local salons. My daughter and her attendants and I
spent many hours there with fittings, etc. The salon employees could not have been nicer or more helpful. In the middle of getting ready to order, my sister told me about DBS. I decided to do what I thought was the right thing and continue ordering from the salon. It really was like a dagger in my heart when I later discovered that DBS could have saved me hundreds of dollars. (I'm still glad I did the right thing).

From the DBS dealer's standpoint. We were in this business (surely not for the commission check...which was hardly worth driving to the bank for), to help YOU, the bride-to-be, find that "perfect" gown, to hear the sound of your voice when you called to tell us that it fit perfectly and was prettier than you remembered. Yes, we got something from it...satisfaction...what could be more satisfying than finding that dress and saving you, as well as your wedding party, hundreds of dollars at the same time? My brides hated the idea of running from shop to shop, dealing with difficult employees, and then having to spend hundreds more than they should have had to pay. Most brides are more practical these days, they simply do not have the time to spend running all over the place when they can shop at their computer, see color samples direct from the manufacturer's website (and yes, in the heat or air conditioning of their OWN homes).

Now, to address what you said about Alan and Denise Fields: I can't imagine a dealer not jumping to their defense on this issue. The Fields have saved bridal consumers millions of dollars over the years. They have brought the bridal industry into this century.
Many messengers are shot when they bring a new and innovative idea into view. But the people who would attack the Fields are like most of the people who, when the Internet first burst onto the scene, said, "It'll never fly". Tell me, bride-to-be, have you never once wanted to purchase something, priced it in a store, and then ordered it on the Internet? If you have done that, then I'd say you're attacking the wrong people here. (I'd venture a strong guess here too, that many bridal store owners have also shopped around for something and ordered from the Internet). It's a newer concept, of course, but it's been a long time coming. Are you also one of those people who get angry at Wal-Mart because smaller stores are unable to compete with WM's prices? I'm sorry that so many smaller stores lose business and some even have to close, but that IS business and that's what makes our economy strong...competition in industry.
So, thanks to Alan and Denise for recommending DBS...you did a great service by encouraging brides to shop for the best prices. I'm sorry if because of this bankruptcy you have been attacked or been made to feel guilty or are embarrassed. I am truly sorry.

As I said previously, I am not a part of this forum to attack anyone. I would, however, like to also address Sandy and Lennie. You've heard these questions before...1)Why did you continue to take orders from brides when you knew you were having financial problems. 2) Why did you continue to train new dealers, take their money knowing of the impending bankruptcy plans? I understand company bankruptcy well...I've seen many people through the years have to go that route. Very unfortunate but most closed their doors after they approached their employees with the truth about the situation. I, like others covet the answers to these questions, not to attack you, but to understand and be able to defend you IF there's a good reason to do so.

The next issue I have is with you manufacturers who are charging a surcharge on your gowns. In a recent posting, I mentioned the definition of the word, "surcharge":1) to overload; overburden. 2)an extra or excessive load, burden, etc. Now, my question to you manufacturers who are guilty of this is, WHY would you do this to a bride who is totally innocent, hasn't done anything except give you her business in the first place? Would any of you do this to your own daughters, neices, or friends? How can you justify this? I implore you to rethink your decision about a surcharge. I implore you to also consider giving the dresses to those brides at your cost. They are, after all, YOUR brides as much as we consider them "our brides".

I don't know if FSBS ever speak of their customers as "their brides".
I never heard anyone at the bridal shop I bought our daughter's gown at refer to my daughter as "their bride". I have only heard DBS dealers refer to their customers as "my bride". I think we care for them as we would care for a very dear friend. I think those of us who are able are going to take money from our accounts to BUY for our brides the dresses they ordered if they are unable to do so for themselves. Is it fair? I don't think so but my dad told me many times when I was growing up, "It's the right thing to do".

All of us, dealers, FSBS, manufacturers, and DBS owners, all need to search our hearts for what is the right thing to do from here on out.

[JoAnne Schnepp]

THANK YOU SO Much!! That was so well said, and with such love and caring, it brought tears to my eyes. Not one thing there that is not in most of our hearts!!

We DO...EVERYONE of us...no matter which side of this issue...need to be thinking in terms of "What is the RIGHT thing to do" I agree totally.

[klsews]

I would like to respond to Jaime, who is angry and rightly so, me too. As a dealer, I have been accepting 80-90 charge backs at $25 each for handling their credit card orders, and those who paid in cash will either get free alterations or I am actually buying back their gowns for them. Now, perhaps Jaime's dealer cannot do that, but most of us are, and one dealer's reaction does not paint a total picture of all of us. If you want to get into touch with me personally, perhaps some of us dealers with more resources can help you with another gown. Write to [email protected] and I will authorize them to give you my email address.

[Ellen Haines]

Jaime...I am sorry your dealer didn't offer to help you. Should you need help with your order...what's one more for me to work on. Please contact me directly at [email protected].

[affordabledreams]

Jean please email me direct [email protected] got some questions for you. Thanks PS No attacks from me promise

[Carolyn Bodner]

Nicely said.

[Twood]

I would also like to add that buying from a FSBS also has it's risk. I am wedding consultant and had several brides purchase their gown from a local bridal salon, only to have them close their doors with no warning. A note posted on their front door simply said"out of business". Lawsuits were filed but that did not get the brides their dress. So no matter what the situation, you are always at risk and should just be prepared to handle it.

[Jean dbsqueen]

Dear jlyn098

I can't explain all this away, I wish I could. I had a delivery confirmation on all my orders with Marisa, if they told you the order was not in production, it's not what they told me, I had no reason to think any different, we had what I thought was a wonderful relationship. There was no reason to believe that orders placed in February would not be shipped as this all just happened in June. Some of our sources were pre-paid and some COD (and they charged big surcharges), if this source said we didn't pay they may have been COD which was our agreement and now some companies, sources and some manufacturers are so angry and rightly so, this is just their way of venting and makes Martins/DBS look worse with no one to defend us. I've seen the UPS package labels and I've seen the cost of shppping the boxes and they were high, shipping costs also included the receiving, inspection and repackaging. I know we weren't the best but we are human, we tried, we did good things and we made some mistakes. I said it before, I can't defend what happened and I'm sorry for the pain this has caused everyone involved, but I'm proud to have been part of a company of people that worked so hard, even if it did all come tumbling down. I really wish that no one had to go through this terrible ordeal. Please take care and I do wish you the best.
Jean dbsqueen

[Left Holding the Bag]

Jean, obviously very few of the sources were pre-paid, or else this bankruptcy would have been no big deal. Pre-paid orders would have sailed right on through and been delivered, even after bankruptcy. Every single pending order I had was being held for non-payment. If I'm wrong, help me understand.

[Jean dbsqueen]

Dear "left holding the bag",
I'm sorry, I can't explain or control what sources and manufacturers are saying. They are trying to protect themselves. They will say what they need to and I can't speak for them. I really am sorry.
Jean

[former DBS dealer]

Jean,

You are so right. Designers will say anything at this point. They initially told us they would work with us and ship our dresses. Now many are changing their minds. It sucks

We are ALL suffering because of this.....which includes the gals at the SC who are out of a job and many dealers who may not be able to continue in business.

Sadden by it all

Lynne
former DBS dealer
1637

[Tocaca]

Hi Jamie. please post an email address and I will see if I can help you.

[alandenisefields]

UPDATE: Friday July 15, 2005.
FROM: Denise & Alan Fields, authors, BRIDAL BARGAINS

(Please feel free to copy this post to all other message boards).

As many of you know, we have been working hard here to get DBS brides their dresses. We recommended Discount Bridal Service in our book and believe we have a responsibility to help out consumers whose gowns are being held hostage.

To that end, we have published a list on our web site of contacts at bridal manufacturers and their policy toward DBS brides. Sadly, a good number of dress makers have decided they will NOT help brides, despite our pleas and the pleas of consumers nationwide.

Now a brief word on this: we are asking the manufacturers to release merchandise that was special-ordered by DBS for brides, but is now hanging in a warehouse as DBS is in bankruptcy. We have lobbied for dress makers to only charge brides WHOLESALE cost plus shipping, as many brides are out hundreds/thousands of dollars each (especially those that wrote checks to DBS). We have urged the manufacturers NOT to slap brides with surcharges or other fees.

Remember this:

Discount Bridal Service generated tens of MILLIONS of dollars in sales and profits for bridal manufacturers in the past 21 years. During that time, gown makers were more than happy to cash the checks of DBS/Martins brides. But now that we have a crisis, those same dress makers have turned a deaf ear to help brides.

Why?

Sadly, full-price bridal shops have lobbied the manufactures NOT to help brides. They would prefer brides come to their stores and pay FULL RETAIL to get the gowns released. Some shops say DBS customers "deserve" this as punishment. Of course, other retailers just want profit on this crisis, as they have had to compete against DBS for years.

Brides are caught in this crossfire---and are the innocent victims, as they didn't ask for DBS to go bankrupt, of course.

Here is our advice for brides who have a dress held hostage by a bridal manufacturer:

1. Try to have your DBS dealer get the dress released. Or email us and we'll refer your order to another discount web site, so you won't have to pay full price again.

2. If this fails, DO NOT GIVE THE BRIDAL BIZ YOUR BUISINESS. Let the manufacturer be stuck with your 7 bridesmaids dresses in purple that won't be selling to any other bride. Instead, we suggest going to David's Bridal (for a bridal gown---David's is the Death Star for these manufacturers) or shopping from a catalog like Chadwicks or J Crew (to replace bridesmaids dresses). Many department stores also stock gowns that will in pinch work as maids dresses.

3. Let you friends know how you were treated. If a dress maker works with you (or your DBS rep) and gets you your gowns WITHOUT a surcharge or penalty, post that to wedding message boards. Likewise, if you are treated like a criminal, then warn other brides by posting on the Knot, Wedding Channel, our message boards, etc. The bridal business needs to realize it is the BRIDES who are their customers.

We are doing our best to lobby dress makers to work with brides and DBS dealers to release gowns. But we need your help! Thanks in advance,

Alan & Denise Fields
authors, BRIDAL BARGAINS

[P Limmer]

Hi Jean,

I want to thank you for coming on here and trying to help, I hope the experience has not left you regretting having done so.

I hope you can give me & maybe other dealers some hints about how to track down certain orders. I have 2 orders that the designers say was never placed. I have some that were placed through another shop & so I am thinking the two I have left may have been done through another source. I guess I could reorder them through new sources, but I would hate to make things worse by leaving some middle man shop stuck with a dress that I ordered. One was a Demetrios Couture the other Venus Bridal. Any help would be appreciated. You can call me or email if you prefer.

Every DBS dealer I have spoken to has only nice thing to say about you and I am sure everyone wishes you the best, you were always helpful, pleasant & efficient.

Phyllis

631 368-6462
[email protected]

[reneejonbridals]

alan and denise
...I am sorry the dealers and Dbs did not follow through with the orders already placed! Should you need help with your order...what's one more bridal gown for me to work on. Please contact me directly at [email protected]. 909-860-8842
Renee jon Designs Bridal in Bridal bargains book

[iliana_sedai]

I thought that Bridal Bargains was a good book that, for all intents and purposes, does a good job with helping consumers to save some money. The review of manufacturers and the information about discounters was one of its strengths.

However... this is the part that really raises red flags for me.

>2. If this fails, DO NOT GIVE THE BRIDAL BIZ YOUR BUISINESS.
>Let the manufacturer be stuck with your 7 bridesmaids dresses
>in purple that won't be selling to any other bride. Instead,
>we suggest going to David's Bridal (for a bridal
>gown---David's is the Death Star for these manufacturers) or
>shopping from a catalog like Chadwicks or J Crew (to replace
>bridesmaids dresses). Many department stores also stock gowns
>that will in pinch work as maids dresses.

Now you've made me really question the validity of your reviews and opinions. In the book you write a terrible review of David's Bridal. I agree, David's was terrible in my experience.

Bridal shops close. You warned us about that. DBS is no different from that.

But now you not only have recommended a shop that closed and left thousands of people without bridal apparel (not your fault, although its business model was clearly dubious enough from the start that I decided not to risk ordering from them, and perhaps you should have guessed it was a fishy business model too)... You've also seriously contradicted yourselves by waving your flags for David's.

Mr. and Mrs. Fields, despite the fact that I was fortunate enough to not be affected personally by DBS filing for Chapter 7, I have now begun to distrust the very strong -- and evidently not so unbiased -- opinions you expressed in your book. Yours are no better than anyone else's. But what's worse about yours, is that you can't seem to make up your minds who to demonize -- the FSBS, or David's, or the manufacturers.

You didn't need to demonize so many parties when you wrote your book. But now you give contradicting advice and send brides to David's, a store you warned them away from before. What makes you think people can trust what you say?

[past associate]

Jean-dbsqueen,
You have always been the kindest and most honest and sincere person I ever had the privledge to know. If you said things were ordered and on c.o.d. I would believe you! If you said the check is in the mail! I would believe you! I do miss you ladies! Good luck to all of you in your future endeavors.

[rkbridal]

If you have been effected by the DBS Bankruptcy, we maybe able to help.
RK Bridal is working with many of the manufacturers, along with the DBS
associates to get the dresses you originally ordered.. Many of the DBS associates
have been doing their best to make deals with the manufacturers, and many are
coming to RK Bridal for help.
If you have contacted you’re local associate and they do not know what to do,
Have them call RK Bridal 212-947-1155, if your local associate will not help
you, then you should call us yourself.
There is no reason to go to a big chain store to order, and wind up paying more,
For something you did not what in the first place.
There is a good chance your dress or dresses are sitting with the manufacturers,
And they are ready and willing to ship them right away.
Do not delay,

RK Bridal 212-947-1155
Hours 11am to 7pm Eastern time

www.rkbridal.com

[bridesmom]

I just wanted to say that RK Bridal is one of the most reliable and bride friendly stores, internet or regular, that my family has ever dealt with - when my daughters were getting married, they visited many local stores and tried on many styles to find their perfect gowns, including Martins in Baltimore. They shopped carefully trying to get the best price and the best service...and they found that at RK Bridal. Our younger daughter even went to NY to check out the merchandise in their store. Reed, the owner, couldn't have been nicer to her, and advised that she order online to save the NY tax and to take advantage of their internet price match guarantee. Both girls got their bridesmaid's gowns there as well as their own beautiful bridal gowns, without a hitch and with lots of good advice. Everyone saved money, loved their dresses and would buy from RK again in an instant. If anyone has trouble because of DBS, I would contact Reed in an instant and see if he can help out!

[bridaldiva]

I have a few comments about this post. And I mean no disrespect to you Joanne. But some of these issues need to be cleared up.

>But, the major differences all of us had over the FSBS is that
>we provided a very personalized service, and we were not a
>store employee...we were business owners. >

I also am a business owner. I have no employees. I don't even pay myself. I work 72-80 hours a week so that brides can receive very specialized service for every aspect of their wedding. I offer them referrals to other wedding related businesses for free. And I am authorized (me personally) to sell every piece of merchandise that they receive.

IF a bride wants a gown from
>a discounter, it shouldn't have to all be under the table.
>There's enough business here for everyone, and there's no need
>to be so cutthroat about it.

You are absolutely right. And I have never said anything derrogatory in regards to David's Bridal or DBS. In fact, when I decided to enter this industry I looked at DBS as an option and chose to forgo that option. I didn't want to put so much trust into a 3rd party for receiving my customers merchandise. I respect the choice that you made in becoming a DBS dealer. And I am sorry that you are now going through this experience.

>The manufacturers and salons that are gouging the brides now,
>will lose business, and they SHOULD lose business. There is NO
>reason to charge more than the wholesale price of the gown
>plus shipping to get it to them. In my opinion, even the FSBS,
>if they want to 'help', should be willing to forgo profits
>when all they are really doing here is clarifying previously
>placed orders and arranging shipping. They are not selling to
>the bride. The bride isn't in the salon trying on gowns for
>hours for her and the BMS. She is getting an ordered gown
>mailed to her.

There is no gouging going on. Manufacturers make merchandise to sell to retailers, not the end consumer. If they could sell to the end consumer easily, they would not need dbs or fsbs. As an honest hardworking fsbs owner, I am more than willing to help a bride who has found herself in a predicament over her gown due to Martin's closure. However, my time and responsibility is worth something. I feel bad that these brides have been put in the situation that they are now in. But need I remind you that it was neither fsbs or manufacturers who have put them there. If I sell for wholesale to one bride I must do it for all brides. And then I cannot pay my rent, utilities, account balances or buy the minimums required for next seasons styles so that I can continue to order specials. I know that these are many things that you would not understand. Martin's made it easy for you to enter this industry without them. And unfortunatley they have found out what happens when you cannot pay your bills. I could not and would not jeopardize my loyal customers for anyone.

So in closure, I hope that you can better understand the perspective of this fsbs. No, not all fsbs feel badly over what is happening. But not all of us want the brides to be punished either. So, why would you expect us to punish ourselves for a misfortune that we had NOTHING to do with. I pray that things work out for you. I know how attaching this industry is. That is why I work so hard to be in it. Good luck with this situation. And let me know if I can be of any assistance to you or any of your brides.

[bridaldiva]

First off, for you to imply that all dbs dealers care about their brides is as ridiculous as to imply that no fsbs stores do. I care very greatly for every bride that shops my store. Some choose to buy with me and others do not. It does not make me mad when they go to a dbs to buy. They are usually the brides that want something for nothing. And unfortunately, I cannot offer that. I am not in this business to get rich. I am here to offer a better place where brides can feel confident in the choice and delivery of their purchases. You are absolutely correct in stating that consumers have rights. They have the right to shop in my store under the rules that I have the right to put in place. They have the right to use my expertise and knowledge to help them with their choice. They have the right to buy merchandise from me because they have learned what my store is about and have developed a relationship with me. And they have the right to leave my store without purchasing anything.
You have stated that fsbs are lobbying the manufacturers to not help brides. I can honestly say that I have not spoken with my manufacturers over this situation. I feel that it is between Martins and them. It does not affect how I do my daily business. It does not affect who my target market is. But I should remind you that the target market of the manufacturers is not the brides. It is the retailers. And they are trying to be fair to their actual customer who spend 10's of thousands of dollars every season to make the required minimums that they placy in their policy. I feel for all of you dbs dealers and the brides. But how dare you attack us. How dare you make this our problem. And how dare you imply that all fsbs run their business with anything less than "heart" and integrity.

[joannes]

I DO understand your perspective...and obviously you are not one of the FSBS that were being referred to, but the fact is, people HAVE reporting some 'ripping off' going on from both retail shops AND the manufacturers....examples where the bride was told she must pay full retail plus $200 extra seems really unfair to me, when it's only to follow up on an order already placed.

And yes, you are a business owner, as I am, but I was referring to stores that had employees doing all the front line work. I know about them. There are a lot of them in my town, where the owners are absentee. Since you are actively running your shop, then, again, my comment didn't apply.

And I DO understand the overhead and expense of the full service salon...as my husband and I investigated buying one here a number of years ago. To me, it is outrageous that the manufacturers can demand that you buy the amount of minimum quantity samples twice a year that they do! It forces the FSBS to have an inventory constantly of hundreds of thousands of dollars.And every six months that inventory is outdated and must be replaced. I well understand that, but I think it is a rip off in itself, and that's why we didn't buy. But, as to not being able to finish off an order for a bride in these circumstances because you would have to sell wholesale for every bride....I guess I really can't agree unless there is some federal law I don't know about. I would bet that if your niece were getting married, you would be offering her big discounts if asked. If you even made a public announcement that you were going to assist DBS brides so they could receive their gowns, you would probably be getting the praises of every single one of your own brides, who could well imagine the grief the other bride is going through. If I owned a shop, I would do it. If I didn't think I could afford to do it literally, then I would say I could help the first 3 or the first 5 or something. But that's me. Maybe I'ld end up in jail cause I don't know the law on this. I wouldn't feel like I was punishing myself by losing a little bit of profit just for making a phone call and faxing in some paperwork and receiving a package.

[joei]

I was in another state when my mom called to tell me the dress I ordered from DBS was not the dress they shipped and that they went bankrupt.

DBS put a letter in the box stating I should call the manufacturer of the dress. After reading about how the manufacturers don't like it when brides buy from discounters I wasn't looking forward to this call. I called the manufacturer and I would like to say Allure was absolutley gracious in helping me out. I believe the lady who helped me was Christine. She was so nice. Because I was on vaction when all this happened, I had to have my mom fax information over from one state and I had to fax information over from another state and once Christine got all our paper work she immediatley faxed me over the order form to order the dress and at the same cost I had already paid for it. This took no more then 45 minutes and I received the dress I ordered in 3 days. DBS made me wait 14 weeks and I still didn't get the one I ordered.

I just want people to know how well I was treated by Allure and that Christine went above and beyond what she had to.
She made my day!!!
I really hope more manufacturers step up to the plate to help brides out. Besides being morally right, it makes more business sense.
I will now encourage all my friends to buy from Allure.

Also, I want to thank Alan and Denise Fields for the really good advice on using a credit card and for asking the manufacturers to help us all out.
Thank you.

[Clariscakes]

Dearest Jean,
When I heard about the bankruptcy one of my first thoughts was that I wouldn't hear your voice again. You were always a special lady to me, and always will be. You were kind, understanding, helpful, and funny (You shoulda been a boy scout). This has been hard on everybody, and you and Kim Strauss are the only people I have seen who are trying to help. Bless you both.
I was one of those who did my own credit card so I am stuck with paying for several dresses. It is hard but I am doing it because it is the right thing. Unfortunately I am giving up the bridal business. But I wish you the best, and that you find something else where you deal with the public. You are the best, and this must be horrible for you. Hang in there, we still love you.
Love,
Claris
Dealer #1009

[dwind]

With many years of salon experience I would like to bring to your attention that when an account falls in arrears with the manufacturer they require that account to pay some on the arrearage in order to receive each and every shipment. Most usually that amount was equal to full retail of the item(s) being shipped. On the invoice it would be listed as shipping.

This may or may not have been the situation at Martins. If the packages coming in COD were twice what the cost was then this must be recognized as the Manufacturers making an effort to minimize or mitigate any future/further losses.

It is terrible how things were handled by the Lebowitz.

Perhaps a perspective from the inside of the salon on the "short hairs" they hold the manufactures by might be viewed quite differently. The manufacturers have seasonal minimums that they REQUIRE each and every bridal salon who is going to have an account with them to place a minimum order each season. So a store buys the minimum so they can order from that manufacturer. These are often referred to as samples. However the cost on these is rarely and up until the last few years NEVER even at a discount. The choices are made carefully and the store brings in the gown and puts it on the rack. Now from a store perspective (one the DBS dealer does not have/share/experience) is that they spend hours (10 on averages) with each and every customer trying on gowns. There is no compensation for this. Only the effort to "make a sale". The customers come in all forms of graciousness or even gracelessness. The gowns become soiled and damaged and hours of pay roll are paid to clerks. In an effort to protect their investment when they are charging a fair market price for what they provide they have learned to remove the information from the inside of the gown. The relationship between DBS and the full service salon could be likened to none other in a retail setting. For the manufactures to suddenly set aside their normal terms and requirements is outrageous to the salons. They won't do it for the salons period. Makes many of the FSBS wonder what they are even doing this for.

The economy and the internet and the "need" and even "right" for the American consumer to get the bargain basement bottom price on a luxury item has effected this industry.

As bad as I feel for all of the brides that got burned I feel sad for them. It is a tragedy. The bigger picture sees that 50% of all bridal shops have filed bankruptcy and gone under since 1998. To me that screams that the accusation of the salons over charging and scalping customers is excruciatingly, and obviously NOT true. Most FSBS work very hard and sacrifice much and for very little monetary return for their time and investment. The customer is demanding and can be very ungrateful and usually ignorant of the work involved in meeting their needs.

As I watched the CNBC article special on Wal-Mart I then looked outwardly from America and into the countries that are working to supply a product for the same cost that it was supplied at in 1998. People working long hours and in substandard conditions, no benefits, and making maybe .17 an hour to produce items we don't REALLY NEED! What about them????? And we whine about the manufacturer leaving the country.....geez. Where is logic and common sense?

I look at the product and look at many, many manufacturer’s prices and wonder: How the heck can that make that for so little????

[formybrides]

Karen,
First of all,not all of the bridal stores have time to "lobby" the manufacturers to not sell their goods to the brides! That is ABSURD!! What kind of pull do you think we have?!

Secondly, I am concerned with the wellfare of MY brides. Repeat, MY brides! Not only do I take the time to help them decide what they want, help them try-on MY gowns that I bought, take their measurements, tell them what size they need, steam the dress when it comes in and for Bridal portraits, and AGAIN for the wedding, but all the time I get to know them. I know their moms and dads and sisters and cousins and so on. We do take the time for them, because it is their wedding day and it is special and so are they, to us.

There is so much that we, FSBS's, do for the bride.
So let me tell you that I know I speak for MANY FSBS owners, when I say... We truly cared for about our customers and brides,too!