*Update* WWYD? Child Hitting At Daycare (Sorry, Long)

[randomkid]

Thank you all for your thoughts, suggestions and experience. I did talk to the DCP today. When I picked DD up, she was very somber and the DCP said she didn't play all day and didn't talk all day. We were concerned that she was getting sick, but now that she's home, she's fine. When the DCP told me that, I said, "Well, she came home yesterday and said K slapped her in the face." I told her all that DD said and the DCP denies that it ever happened. She did say that another child was sent to time out 2 days ago because he ran and jumped on some of the other kids - he was playing, but the DCP knows that he could hurt someone by being so rough. She told me that nobody went to time out yesterday. She also told me that DD was talking about a clown with a big red nose and that the clown was scary. I have NO idea what she is talking about. I really do think DD gets her stories confused, but that doesn't mean that K didn't hit her. It could have happened without the DCP seeing it. She does watch the kids closely - I've been on field trips, so I know how she is with them, but I know it's impossible to see everything - she has 8 kids there (many babies, so they need diaper changes, feedings, etc).

I know that DD has gotten stories confused before because she will tell me something, then the DCP says it never happened. I don't think she would deny that something happened if it really had - she's pretty honest. She also told me that DD has never been sent to time out. When I asked DD why she didn't play today, she said she was mad because she had to go there again. This isn't new - she never wants to go, she wants to stay home with me. I guess all I can do is monitor the situation.

Thanks again and I wil be quite vigilant about this!

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This is a somewhat difficult situation for me. DD is in an in-home daycare and I plan to keep her there until the fall when I hope to start her in preschool. DD is 3 and there is another little girl there who is 3.5yo (we'll call her K). K has been in this daycare since she was an infant and the DCP is friends with the family. She currently has 2 of their children there and had their 3rd previously. I know she feels like this child is one of her family. DD has only been there since September, so she's the "new kid".

Here's the problem - K is a hitter. She has always hit other kids (I've seen it when the DCP didn't) and she gets in trouble and gets sent to time out (when she is caught). Obviously, this approach is not working because she continues to hit the other kids. DD has never said anything until this week. On Wed, she said K hit her on the leg. Yesterday, she said K slapped her face - she was quite detailed, demonstrating how K hit her, saying "I cried", that DCP "talked loud" to her and she had to go to time out. Then, DD started getting confused and said the DCP hit DD and talked loud to DD and DD was sent to timeout. I could not begin to imagine that this woman would slap a child, so I'm sure her first version was correct. I'm pretty certain that the parents don't do anything at home about the hitting, so the DCP is doing the best she can. She is also limited in her discipline because she is just the DCP even though she is friends with the family.

I need to discuss this with the DCP, but it's sensitive as I'm sure she will be a bit protective of K. Any suggestions on how you would handle this? I know WHAT I want to say, but what *I* want to say would probably not go over very well - lol! It just broke my heart to think of DD being slapped in the face. When she told me, she looked very sad. I gave her a hug and she said "I alright now, Mommy", but she still looked sad. :cry: Taking DD out is not an option now and also, not a solution IMO since K will continue to hit even if DD is gone. There will always be issues where ever she goes, so I want to meet this head on, but in a tactful way. BTW, K will also start preschool in the fall and I think her parents are in for many parent-teacher conferences if they don't do anything about it.

I have talked directly to the child before because she was saying DD "cried like a baby" when she first started there because DD would cry when I left her. K also talks about the other children "going pee in her pants". I just said to her that ___ is still learning and that's not nice to say. She is the middle child with a 9 month old sister, so I'm not sure if she is just acting out or if this is personality or following example from home. Dh talked to the DCP about the "cry like a baby" comment and it stopped. However, this hitting thing has been a problem since DD started. I'm really upset and I need help.

Thank you for any advice/suggestions you have.

[kedss]

Hi-

I would definitely talk to the DCP, regardless of the relationship she has with K's family. I might also try to have a meeting with K's parents, as your child has been hit more than once by this child. I wouldn't want to take my child to a place where she is worried about getting hit.

sorry you and you DD are dealing with this-

[mommy111]

Definitely talk to the daycare provider! Usually, in this kind of a situation, there is some way for the daycare staff to 'run interference' and keep the 'hitter' away from the kid who is the current 'special target.' In this situation, sadly, it is the vocal parents whose kids will be better protected, but you have to look out for DD. Also, have repeated conversations with DD. Teach her to stay away from K. I would also teach her, if K tries to hit her/play with her again, to say 'K, I don't want to play with you. You hit me. That's not nice.' I know that's kind of harsh, but when adults fail to discipline kids, kids sometimes have to take things in their own hands. Also, I'm a firm believer in kids, esp girls, standing up for themselves.

[SnuggleBuggles]

My ds was a hitter. It was awful. We had several talks with the director of ds' preschool and eventually we made our way to a child psychologist for the issue. We worked on it so, so hard but he just had impulse control issues that took time resolve on their own. As the mom on that side of the fence I would just make sure that the DCP is handling the situation with the other family. But, I would really reserve actually discussing the issue with the other family directly just because I think it would be a hard conversation since emotions run high when it involves our kids. I'd most likely have cried if you came to talk to me, especially if you were angry or judgmental. But, that's just me.

Make sure it is being dealt with though YOur dc has a right to feel safe. YOu need to accept that some times this stuff will happen though since they are still little and hitting is, to them, an efficient method of communication to them. Appropriate responses from the DCP and families need to happen.

Beth

[Clarity]

Kim,
I like the pp's suggestion of talking to your dd and teaching her to keep her distance and stand up to the hitter. In addition to talking to your DCP, of course. And, I wouldn't worry about the DCP being protective of the hitter, you're paying her to be protective of YOUR child too. And, I know sometimes it's really hard to consider changing providers, but if DCP cannot mediate between two children and your dd continues to come home with stories of being hit, I'd really be thinking how to get her out of that situation. Good luck!

[ha98ed14]

Disclaimer: My kid is way to young to know how to hit, so I could be way outta line, but just a thought:

What would you think about telling DD to... hit back? Is that really, really horrible? In most cases, it might be, but if this kid is a chronic hitter and is targeting your DD, maybe having someone slap her back in the face might SHOW her how it doesn't really feel nice. And show her that your DD is not going to take it without sticking up for herself. Again, maybe that is way outta line. Feedback?

[SnuggleBuggles]

Disclaimer: My kid is way to young to know how to hit, so I could be way outta line, but just a thought:

What would you think about telling DD to... hit back? Is that really, really horrible? In most cases, it might be, but if this kid is a chronic hitter and is targeting your DD, maybe having someone slap her back in the face might SHOW her how it doesn't really feel nice. And show her that your DD is not going to take it without sticking up for herself. Again, maybe that is way outta line. Feedback?

It wouldn't have worked with my ds. He knew that hitting was wrong, that hitting hurt but his brain wasn't working with his actions.

Beyond that, it is far better to teach your kid to use their words or simply not play with that child imo.

Beth

[SnuggleBuggles]

Disclaimer: My kid is way to young to know how to hit, so I could be way outta line, but just a thought:

What would you think about telling DD to... hit back? Is that really, really horrible? In most cases, it might be, but if this kid is a chronic hitter and is targeting your DD, maybe having someone slap her back in the face might SHOW her how it doesn't really feel nice. And show her that your DD is not going to take it without sticking up for herself. Again, maybe that is way outta line. Feedback?

It wouldn't have worked with my ds. He knew that hitting was wrong, that hitting hurt but his brain wasn't working with his actions.

Beyond that, it is far better to teach your kid to use their words or simply not play with that child imo.

At 3.5 I don't think this is an issue of bullying. It really is just an inappropriate (possibly age appropriate?) reaction but not usually done with bullying motives. Though calling the OP's child a cry baby may indicate that this is more o a conscious choice.
Beth

[ThreeofUs]

How difficult! But, you know, you have both moral and legal weight on your side.

I'd talk with the DCP, and begin in a very centered way on a care-for-child level. Hitting should not be tolerated. Any DCP knows this. Tell the DCP you are afraid for your child, and that you need to work with her to ensure the situation does not continue. If she resists, sorrowfully tell her you believe she's allowing children to endanger themselves and others. At this point, if she doesn't work with you, you've probably got no choice.

Hitting is bad, but if the DCP is not seeing the hitting, then the DCP is probably missing a lot more than just this. Are you sure you want to keep your DD there?

[casey0729]

Beth, thanks for your perspective, I never thought of it like that before. From the way you tell it, it sounds like your DC knew it was wrong. I wonder if K just knows she can get away with it.

My DS was just in this situation over Xmas with his cousin who is a couple months older than him. His cousin hits, screams, never shares and then freaks if someone has something he wants and throws spectacular tantrums. His behavior is not corrected, or done half-assedly by his parents and the gparents tend to make excuses for it because when all the grandchildren are together it is blatantly obvious he is ill-behaved. It was constant timeouts, telling him no hitting, separation etc. and my DS never hit back once, until the last day. Then he shoved his cousin, thought about it and then shoved him again. The cousin stopped, looked over at Grandma, started screaming and said "I don't like that!". Then Grandma praised the cousin for using his words to tell my DS what he didn't like!!! I then proceeded to tell Grandma what I didn't like about the whole situation. She contends that he never shoved until he was in daycare. BS! He's always been like that. I know plenty of kids that age in daycare and they do NOT behave in that manner. My DH and I, and the other cousins parents flat out tell him to stop screaming, hitting, etc., in a pretty stern voice and he stops - because he knows none of us will put up with it.

Kim, I would talk to her and tell her you are worried about it. This is your child and you are entrusting her to this woman as a DCP. Your money is just as green. Do you pay less because you're not friends with her? If not, then your child is entitled to the same care. Does she have 3 kids there? If so, she should be well able to catch most of the hitting and deal with it.

I hope this gets resolved for you and your DD.

[randomkid]

Oh yeah, we've already had this talk. I told DD that if K hits her again to tell her "Stop it! Don't hit me!" DD just laughed, but we will continue to practice. I want her to stand up for herself and K is kind of a bully. If one of the kids stands up to her, then she might just back down (I hope).

[randomkid]

I was hoping that someone could give me a POV as a parent of a hitter (not that I wanted someone's DC to be a hitter, but I was sure there would be one out there, KWIM?). Anyway, I appreciate your input and I would never approach the family myself. I have met the parents several times and, honestly, they are not very friendly to me or DH. They are sweet as pie to DD, but not so much to us. Sadly, I tend of think that K's attitude and behavior is a reflection of what goes on at home.

[randomkid]

Thanks, but I don't want DD to hit back unless it was really necessary. This is an age where hitting can be a problem and DD has hit me before when she is angry. I have worked very hard to make sure she knows that it is not acceptable and I just don't want to take that approach. It would be too difficult for her to understand that it's "OK" to hit sometimes, but not other times. Besides, then she's a hitter and she'd be getting in trouble as well. I'd prefer K get in trouble and DD not be sent to time out. I don't want her to get disciplined for something another kid started. Does this make sense?

[bisous]

My DS is not a hitter but he is very physical and likes to give huge bear hugs (knocking over smaller kids) and it does bother other children. Like Beth, I work with my DS constantly who doesn't want to be annoying or aggressive but he is just super impulsive and possibly has ADHD tendencies.

I really do feel for the kids who are the recipients of his "affection" to the point that I almost cringe if I see other kids at the park! If K's parents are at all conscientious (and it is difficult to tell if they are from your posts) they are likely FULLY aware of the situation. I wouldn't really feel good about another parent approaching me--especially in a daycare situation because I wouldn't be there during the day and I wouldn't be able to do a darn thing about my child's behavior. I also wanted to mention that I'm sure that many people just look at DS behavior and think that either I don't follow through properly or he isn't taught at home or whatever but this simply isn't the case. On the contrary, I've had to back off a little bit because DS is starting to be overly sensitive because I get on his case all the time. He is getting older and more mature and consequently better behaved.

I do think that talking to your DCP is a good idea. I worked in a nursery setting before and we had a biter (which is even WORSE than a hitter because of germ issues) and by, to quote a pp "running interference" we were able to avoid any incidents for months. It is possible. It sounds like you are giving your DD the skills she needs to successfully deal with K or any future hitters. Good job mom!

[elektra]

DD is still a baby, but IMO it definitely makes sense to talk to DCP first and not discuss it with K's parents directly. I can just see that getting really ugly.
Another thing I thought I would mention was a piece of advice that I read in some previous post on the boards. It was more in regards to a situation where a small child was being bullied (so it might not totally apply here). But the poster had said her son was being bullied at school and was obviously very upset about it.
So the parents acted out certain situations and coached their DS on how to respond. Supposedly it did work and the bullying situation did improve. So the parents instructed the child to have a very assertive tone and say "STOP IT! That is not nice!" or something like that, and to also tell the DCP right away.
As I remember, the parents also felt that it empowered the child and helped him feel better about the situation.
The point still is that K should not hit your child and that situation would still need to be addressed head on. However, it probably wouldn't hurt to also reinforce to your daughter that even though K is totally in the wrong and you are going to talk to the DCP about it, there are kids in life that will be mean and that your daughter has the right to stand up for herself.

[bisous]

I just read your update. I think that your daughter is clearly upset with something at daycare and it could very well be that she doesn't feel safe. Talking to your DCP hopefully assured that she will be extra vigilant on your DD's behalf. I hope your DD feels better soon!

[ThreeofUs]

ITA with Bisous. It sounds like something is going on at that daycare, and your daughter is reacting. Do you know any of the other kids' parents? Could you talk to them and see what their kids are saying?

You know, if it's one DCP spread among 8 kids, she just can't be seeing everything....

[ha98ed14]

I just read your update and was wondering have you thought of switching daycares? 8 kids with lots of babies and one DCP sounds like a stretch to me. We live in California and the rules for in home daycare are very strict about how many kids you can have and how many of them can be under 2. (Anything under 2 is considered an "infant" for the purposes of daycare.) I did a lot of research into this when I was thinking of going back to work. I "dropped in" on a lot of daycares and really, the ones that mix inants and toddlers have a hard time doing it well. The best daycares I saw (both in-home and commericial Kinder-care type) separate the kids. One woman I interviewed ran an in home daycare and she only took infants. As a result, she could devote all her time to their care and not have to worry about breaking up a toddler spat in the middle of giving a bottle to a baby.

Have you thought about putting DD in a more pre-school type center? Here, there are pre-schools that have both a taught curriculum and free-play AND that keep day-care hours (6 AM-6:30 PM). DD might be happier in a place where all the kids in her room would be her age and the DCP/ teachers would be completely devoted to watching out for toddler issues, like hitting. Just a thought.

[randomkid]

We did the daycare center thing last year and DD was sick so much that she rarely went,. I mean averaging 1-2 days a week. I just can't affort to pay the money they want just for DD to get sick. I do plan to try again in the fall when DD is 3.5yo. All the daycare centers around here seem to go by the school year and enroll in August. All the good ones are always full, so there is no getting in during the year.
The rules here are 10 kids if there are under a certain number of infants. I should mention that the DCP's husband is there to help. Her 14yo daughter is great with the kids and helps out before and after school. And, her mother and aunt are there almost daily. She is definitely not doing this alone. I really think it's K that she doesn't like. She can be very bossy and DD just ignores her, but I think she doesn't like being around this girl. I'll be glad when she can start in a preschool in the fall.

[smkinc]

I apologize for being so blunt, but I think based on your update you should consider finding a new place NOW.

My sister had an experience with a DCP when her DD was ~1. Her DD did not want to go to this DCP--my sister stuck it out for a month based on DCP saying her DD wasn't integrating well, but finally switched to a new DCP with no issues in DD 'integrating'. She wished she had done it sooner. I have a good friend who's 4 yo daughter came home from a center this year with negative stories about her teacher (DD had been in this center for 2 previous years and had great experiences). While, the stories her daughter was telling her were not 'factual', it was clear the DD was not thriving in this new class--after meeting with the teacher a few times over a 2 month period, she switched to a new school. She also wished she had done so earlier.

Next Fall is 9 months away---do you really want your DD to be in a place she's not comfortable with and actually feels unsafe in 8-9 hours a day?? Would you like that? My DS is in an at home program with 6 other children (age range 6 months to 4 years)--his DCP is phenomenal and has good control and good discipline methods, but there is no way with 2 more children of any age she could manage--especially if there are others there 'helping' it may lack in consistency of care/expectations of behavior.

I just have a bad feeling about your DD in her situation--remember you are your child's advocate. I know it's hard to find good care, but good care matters. I would at least start looking for an alternative.

Take care and I wish you the best.

[TahliasMom]

I'm sorry you are going through this. I"m not sure you have an alternative as daycare is so hard to come by. Maybe talk to other parents and see if they are having problems with K? Also can you corner K and call her out on it? Seems drastic but I don't think you have much choice.
I just wanted to add that we had a similar situation that finally led us to pull dd out of home care. She was there since 14 months when there were only 4-6 kids. By 2.5, there were over 9-11 kids daily and mostly with 1.5 ppl there. Most were babies so the older ones run wild. Went from home cooked food to frozen crap. There was one very rough kid that use to mess with DD and since they were not being watched, he became more violent. At least he was only there 2 days a week but those days DD cried and refused to go to school. It was heartbreaking as a mother to send her to a place she didn't feel safe. I told DD to tell him to stop when he messed with her, to walk away, to tell the DCP but she was just overwhelmed with the little ones. I ended cutting DD's hair into a bob to help with the hair pulling. Sigh. We had numerous talks with the DCP and his mom. No veil and the DCP denied the severity of the issue. I ended up cutting DD to 3 days and putting her with a nanny the other two. It put us in the poor house but it made the DCP realize that we were serious. We survived until DD turned 3. (Few months later I found out DD's previous DCP lost over half of the kids due to that kid and also another child who was a biter).
hugs