Need advice, no idea what to do(long)

[KrystalS]

I'm not sure where this post needs to go but I'm totally losing it right now and its late and I have no one I can tell. Just a forewarning, this is going to be long.
I've thought for the last couple of days that my Dh was acting strange. He was getting on the computer a lot more than usual, texting on his phone a lot more than usual, he actually went over his texting limit this month which he has never done. So I thought ok I'm going to see who hes talking to. I changed his settings on his yahoo messenger to archive all conversations. The only person it showed he was talking to was a mutual friend of ours. Well I start reading the messages and he isn't talking to his friend hes talking to his friends fiance!! These messages were in no way innocent. He was discussing our sex life, or lack thereof in his opinion, and he was asking her how she felt about him. The woman didn't say much, just responded and tried to act coy, it was more my Dh that her that was initiating this part of the conversation. But he told her that he loved talking to her and he missed her when he couldn't talk to her. This woman is a very good friend of mine. Some back story, my Dh just returned from a 15 month deployment to Iraq, Lauren the woman hes been talking to, her fiance was also with my Dh. We became good friends because of the deployment. We talked almost daily.
So my Dh was supposed to go visit them this weekend because they were having a party for his friend because hes getting out of the army. I hadn't planned to go because I knew they would be drinking and I didn't want my DD around that and I couldn't find a sitter. I had no problem with him going.
So in reading the messages it starts talking about him coming to visit on Friday, they never specifically said anything but it was very incinuating(sp?).
I only got 2 days worth of these messages off his computer because prior to that he didn't have his messenger set to save the messages.
So I confronted him, he was obviously shocked, he tried to act like it was all innocent but the look on his face told it all. He was very apologetic obviously, swore nothing had ever happened, nothing was going to happen, the usual crap. He said it started out that he thought he was talking to his friend, not to Lauren, then things jsut went from there! How they went that far I have no clue.
I am just at a loss, totally and completely shocked, I never thought my Dh would do something like this. No he didn't cheat, yet anyway, but still. The thought that he was discussing things like this with one of my good friends hurts me so much. I feel like an inadequate wife, that I couldn't please him so he had to talk to someone else about it. I know it isn't my fault but it doesn't make me feel any less hurt.
And the what ifs are killing me, what if I hadn't read those msgs and confronted him, how long would this have gone on? What would have happened when he saw her on Friday? What else did they talk about that I didn't see?
I'm calling the phone company tomorrow and find out of theres anyway to get the text msgs from his phone. I wish I could find a way to see the rest of the messages from his messenger, but I have no idea how to do that.
Am I blowing this out of proportion? I definitely don't think so but I need an outside opinion.

[Jacksonvol]

no, you are not crazy or out of line. I am so very sorry this happened to you. You are absolutely right, it is not your "fault" that your H had this behavior. You might want to consider couples counseling. Please be kind to yourself and again I am very sorry.

[kozachka]

Oh, dear... I'd say there some serious issues in your relationship. If my DH were to send these sort of messages to another woman, I would be furious. It is easy to get carried away online and say more than you would in person, and while there was no physical cheating, messages that you describe would constitute emotional cheating in my book. And arguably once you cheat in the virtual realm, it makes it much easier to cheat in real world. Taking into consideration the other issues going on with your DH (described in your recent b!tching post), and couple counseling sounds like a must. If for whatever reason, counseling is not an option, at the very least, sit down with your DH and make a list of things you want him to improve on and vice versa.

Sending you a virtual HUG.

ETA: And please don't blame yourself for your DH's recent behavior. He should have discussed whatever issues he has with you, rather than his friend's fiance.

I can't help but wonder what your H's friend would have to say about the exchanges he had with his fiance. What kind of a friend does this make him? Not a very good one, to say the least.

[happy2bamom]

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I'm shocked, and I don't even know these people. I would feel betrayed by both of them. Even if the female's part of the conversation wasn't as suggestive as your H, she still holds some of responsibility for allowing the conversations to take place. Believe me, she knew that it wasn't appropriate. Both of them owe you an apology, and I would think that H's friend also needs to be brought into the loop (I think one of them needs to have that conversation with him). For me, I would cut off all communication between that couple and H. There would no longer be any relationship there, he ruined that option.

Without a doubt I would seek out a good couples therapist and get to the heart of the problem. Good luck. Again, I am so sorry that your H is putting you in this situation.

[Pennylane]

I don't think you are blowing it out of proportion at all. I would have make him end all contact with her and I would have him call her (while you are with him) and tell her that. Although nothing has happened yet, it sounds like it is heading that way. Have you guys been having any other issues?

I also agree with the PP about a counselor. This is going to be a hard thing for you to get over and gain trust in him again.

Good luck and I hope it all works out.

Ann

[maylips]

This is going to sound like a broken record, but I would definitely see if he would be willing to go to counseling.

You guys were apart for 15 months so there is probably a huge period of adjustment on BOTH of your parts. Being apart that long would be hard on any marriage, much less one that had one spouse in Iraq and the emotional toil that would bring.

I think you'll be able to tell a lot by his willingness to go to counseling and work at healing. I've seen both sides of these situations through two of my friends' marriages and I can say that there is a huge difference in the strength of the marriages based on the husbands' reactions to getting "caught." One husband agreed to counseling (even set up the appointments himself), worked hard at getting her trust back by keeping her informed of where he was when he was without her, etc. The other husband went a few times, got mad at the counselor, got irritated at his wife when she questioned anything or just wanted to express her hurt, etc. You can imagine which marriage is healing and which one isn't.

Can your marriage be saved? Yes, it can, but both of you have to be willing to work at healing. Many, many hugs to you, honey.

[pinkmomagain]

In my opinion, you are most definitely not blowing it out of proportion. If this happened in my marriage it would be a very big deal. I don't know all your circumstances, but if I had to imagine this situation in my life, I would personally cut off a relationship with this couple, and I would sit down with my husband for some serious conversation/counseling. While I know imagining all the details and what-ifs is what your mind might be wanting to focus on, I would try to redirect to the heart of the matter - what brought this situation on....what led your husband to this? to what degree is he dissatisfied? does he want to work on this marriage with you and make things better for both of you?

I'm so sorry you are going through this right now. Best of luck.

[KrystalS]

Thank you all so much. I really felt like there was no one I could talk to about this. The friend I would normally talk to about stuff like this is the one who did it to me! I talked to Dh this morning before he left for work. I told him how much he hurt me by doing this. He said he was just talking to her and he realizes now that it went way too far. He has sworn to me that he won't have any contact with her again. He said the reason it started is because he was mad at me, he said I talk to him like hes a child sometimes and he needed a wife not another mother. I told him that I only speak to him like that when he acts like a child, normally when I've asked him 5 times to do something and he never does it. He also said that I never let him touch me, not in a sexual way, just kissing or laying on the couch together, whatever, which is true. I learned this from my mother and its a hard habit to break. I grew up in a house where my mom and stepdad never touched in front of us. More because they were in a loveless marriage for years, they got divorced about 5 years ago. Anyway, I told him that I would work on this and I know that I do it. But its hard for him to understand that I've been home all day with our DD, taking care of her, playing with her, and I need some alone time at the end of the day, which is when he gets home. But to him hes been at work all day and wants to spend time with me. We definitely have some issues to work on, and even though I was really hurt, I thank god that I found those messages when I did because if he had went to see her this weekend I would never have been able to believe that nothing happened with them. He says that he would never do anything physically because he knows that cheating is unforgivable in my book. But I honestly don't think I could have believed him after reading those messages.
On the other side of things, I'm so angry with my friend, I feel completely betrayed by her. I want so badly to tell her fiance what happened, I told Dh that I think he should be the one to tell him. I know this won't happen though. He will know that something is going on anyway because I told Dh that I don't want him to have any contact with either of them.
If we can't work out these issues on our own we wil definitely be going to counseling.

[kedss]

Hi-

I've never been in your position, but maybe you can find an afternoon/evening or two when DH knows its your time to do your own thing, so you have your time, then try to ofind a sitter so you two can go out on your own to talk.

I know what you mean about the examples our parents give us, its hard to break that so easily.

Big hugs-

[janeybwild]

I am glad that you see a way forward, and I am sorry that you are facing this crisis. But, after reading your response, I felt compelled to respond. From reading your OP, it is clear that your DH had an affair. Perhaps not a physical one, but clearly an emotional one. Blaming you is totally lame. Yes, there are problems in the marriage. Excusing his own actions by pointing at you is not OK. You deserve more. So, while I understand the feeling that you want to work this out yourselves, I urge you to reconsider. This is a big deal. “We were just talking, no harm done” is not OK. Trust has been severely damaged. Counseling is hard, and I am sure he will be resistant. Who wants to go somewhere and air your dirty laundry? He thinks if he stops talking to her, then problem fixed. Um, no. Counseling would give you the environment to address this issue from all sides. It is multifaceted, not as simple as he did/she did. Please think about it, and know that regardless of what you decide, as a community, we are here to offer support.

[tarabenet]

You are not crazy and you are right to be concerned. You will not help your marriage by tracking down further details behind his back. You'll make yourself crazy and you'll alienate him. You've done the toughest part: confronting him. Now go to counseling and get to work on what was behind it all. You've had the distance of deployment between you, so the idea that there may be problems shouldn't shock you or panic you. Think of this as all just part of the clean-up.

Right this minute close your eyes and let those questions of "what if" come into your mind. On each on of them, remind yourself firmly "but it didn't" and then mentally hit the delete button. That line of thinking will get you nowhere. And right now, you most definitely are required to be right here, right now.

Don't panic. So your relationship needs a little first-aid, big deal. You two can do this. Remember that it is about TLC and nurturing things, not about nagging and panic, and you'll make it through this. You got a warning sign very early! Hang in there!

[katydid1971]

I have to agree that things are not fixed and you need to go to counseling. If H is still in the services there are things avaiable to you through them, that would be one way to go. If not contact you insurance and see what they cover and if they have a list of prefered counselors you can see. What I'm about to say is probably bad advice and other please feel free to disagree. I'm very upset with your "friend" who would do this to you. She may not have been as aggressive in the chats as your H but she understood what was going on. I personally would want to call her and ask her what the H*ll she was doing having chats like that with my husband!!! This is probably bad advice but that is what I would want to do. I

[ha98ed14]

I think all the pp advice about going to counseling is great advice and you should work really really hard to save your marriage. Hopefully H will work at it too. That said PLEASE do some things to protect yourself:

Do you have a job: if so, keep it. If not, at least be aware of where you might look if you need one. Get your resume together, updated, etc. You don't have to apply, but get ready as though you were and start to think about options if you find yourself needing one.

Do you have any money IN YOUR OWN NAME? If not, get some. Open an account in your name only and put some money in it. Take it from your paycheck or your savings, but put something away that DH cannot touch.

Think about where you would go if you needed to leave. Friend, sister, parents.

Tell your parents or your childhood BFF or someone who loves YOU and is loyal to YOU so that you have some one who is on YOUR side. I am not saying to tell someone who is immature and hates your H already. I am talking about someone who will be there to support YOU and listen to YOU without feeling like they are caught in the middle. The wives of your H's friends are NOT the people to be talking to right now. These women will feel caught in the middle and not be free to really look out for your best interests. If you don't have a person like that in your life, go for YOUR own counseling by yourself (in addition to counseling with DH) or talk to a pastor, priest, rabbi if you are at all religious.

Keep looking and talking until you find someone you can trust and talk to IRL. The temptation here might be to get depressed and do nothing. I know because I struggle with it every day (depression) BUT you have to take care of yourself and ask for and tell H what you want. Unfortunately there is no one who can rescue you from this situation but you. YOU have to take back the self respect that H's actions have caused you to question. Like PP said this is NOT your fault and if H was feeling unhappy and not satisfied in his marriage, he is supposed to talk to YOU about it, NOT LAUREN.

Recognize that this is the main point/ crux of the issue/ source of the problem: That when H felt unsatisfied he did not talk to you about it. He talked to Lauren about it. WHY? Why did he not come to you if he felt unsatisfied? That is the first issue/ source of the problem. Be clear about that and DO NOT LET your H turn this around and make it YOUR problem. It is not your problem. He is the one who chose to go outside the marriage, even if it is just talking. It is not conversation to be having with another woman who is not your wife.

I know this may sound like extreme advice. I am not trying to make you think that your marriage will not work out. It can work out, I firmly believe that. If all parties want it to. But, you need to protect yourself.

I watched my mom be devastated when my father cheated twice and then divorced her a took everything, except me and my sister. All the money and the house were in his name. He was a navy doctor. I don't know how he got away with it, but he did. My mom was a SAHM with no job and 2 girls, 4 y o and 1 y o. She eventually pulled herself together, but it was 10 years before she really had recovered emotionally and financially. I swore when I got married that I would never let this happen to me, so I keep money in my own name that is mine and not DHs and I keep up my job skills by taking a class or volunteering, even though I am a SAHM. I love my DH. We ave a great relationship, but I *STILL* do all these things.

Please do not be offended. I am not trying to be a pessimist. I just want you to be protected. You have done nothing wrong.

[maestramommy]

I am really sorry you are going through this. You've already gotten great advice from the pps. I agree with Janey that even though he didn't get physically involved this counts as an affair, and to say it was because of things you did or didn't do is a classic way of avoiding responsibility. I DO think your relationship can be saved and become stronger. It's great that you've identified some of the bigger issues. I also agree with one of the pp who talked about the long deployment. I know firsthand from watching my parents that a long separation can be really hard on a relationship. It's easy to become disconnected.

I really hope you and your H can go for some couples counseling. It sounds like you need some professional mediation. :hug::hug:

[Rainbows&Roses]

I have been in a similar position and I think it is definitely an emotional affair so you are not blowing it out of proportion. The one time my DH has lied to me, straight to my face, was when I confronted him about this similar situation. After having a feeling something was up, I checked his cell phone records and sure enough! He still won't admit 2 years later that he had an emotional affair (she lived out of state), but I wholeheartedly believe it was.

We needed couples therapy anyway, so this issue was just one more reason to go and we did and things are fine. I would suggest you get outside help on this.

Sorry, I know you probably feel like you have been hit by a truck.

[niccig]

I too agree with outside counseling. There's the issue of betrayed trust, but also the issues behind that - DH was unsatisfied and DIDN'T tell you, and you working on your intimacy issues, let alone both of you reconnecting after such a long and stressful separation.

I've seen a good friend's marriage become stronger after infidelity, because of counseling. They both worked hard at the issues in their relationship, so it won't just be DH needing to do some work, it will be the two of you together. But you can do it.

And, I would want to blast your friend Lauren. I don't know if it's the best thing to do, but I think you're entitled to tell her that you're very angry and hurt at her betrayal for having an inappropriate conversation your DH. I would then tell her the friendship is over, and hang up the phone. But if this will get you more upset, then maybe it's best to not say anything.

[Drag0nflygirl]

Yeah, that. Exactly. Studies, and my own personal experience show that emotional affairs cause as much damage and pain in a relationship as physical ones. I'm in a therapy group with a bunch of women who have been through similar situations - and I hate to tell you - but this is most likely the tip of the iceberg. I don't mean that he may have been sleeping around - but internet porn, strip clubs and the like can cause trouble too.
I can't urge you enough to put your foot down and say, "therapy or a divorce." Even if it turns out to be not such a huge thing, you'll be glad you did it. You will be able to work out a solid foundation for your marriage for years to come. 20 years from now when all your friends are dealing with therapy and divorce the two of you will be a solid couple having dealt with all your issues. Good luck and we're here for you.
Nancy
DD Cara 10-25-05

[tylersmama]

I am SO sorry. :hug: I have been going through a kind of similar situation, although unfortunately mine doesn't look like it's going to have a happy ending. I found out last spring that my husband (Soon To Be Ex) was having an emotional affair. At the time, DS had just turned 1. STBX flip-flopped over the course of the summer and fall between wanting to try to work things out for the sake of DS and wanting out of our marriage. This has been by far the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. Emotional affairs suck. In my opinion, it's almost worse than a physical affair. It would have hurt so much less if he had just hooked up with someone rather than falling into this relationship that fills needs in him that I apparently couldn't.

Please, please, please get counseling. And don't blame yourself. It is not your fault. As others have said, there's something wrong with him, not you. It absolutely kills me that STBX didn't feel like he could talk to me about the doubts he was apparently having about our marriage until it was too late. By the time I found out, he was already out the door emotionally, so to speak. He had his mind made up that he could never have what he wants out of life within the boundaries of our marriage (I still disagree, but it's like beating my head against a brick wall; there's just no talking any sense into him). Unfortunately counseling didn't help us, since he had his mind made up going into it, but it sounds like your H may be more receptive at this point to trying to figure out what's wrong with your marriage. A good counselor can work wonders. I still believe that, even though it didn't help us.

Please PM me if you have any questions or just want to talk. I'm also in CO and I can help with info about CO law regarding marital property/support/etc or just a shoulder to cry on. As much as it hurt me to do it, one of the best things I did fairly early on was to consult with a lawyer. At the time, I was still hoping for the best, but it was reassuring to find out what my rights are and what I'm entitled to. Knowledge is power.

:hug: :hug: I truly hope you and your H can work through this. Good luck.

[KrystalS]

Thank you all very much for you support. It's nice to know that I have somewhere I can go and someone else understands. I have talked to my sister and told her everything that happened. Shes kind of a neutral party because her and my Dh are close, but she obviously took my side. I'm definitely going to look into counseling, I know they have services for free on post. All the soldiers were offered free marital counseling when they returned from the deployment.
And even though it may be bad advice, I do plan to confront Lauren, I just don't think I could live with myself if I didn't say something to her. I'm telling her that the friendship is over and if she ever tries to contact my H again I will tell her fiance everything that happened. I feel like I should tell him anyway, but I think that is more my H's responsibility and I know hes going to want some kind of explanation as to why they can't hang out anymore.

[niccig]

I think counseling will really help. I know that if this was me and my DH, I could not discuss things without getting very upset. A 3rd party that is mediating the conversation can help keep things from turning into a yelling match. They'll also call you on things that are not reasonable and they'll give you some homework to work on certain issues. My friend who went through counseling with her DH said it was difficult, as it was her issues being discussed as well as her DH's. She felt he was in the wrong (he was) and she got upset when they started to talk about things she says or does - BUT they had to get all issues out in the open to strengthen their marriage. And it worked.
Good luck.

[tarabenet]

Krystal, I totally missed your second post when I replied! It looks like a lot of us did. Good for you, on all counts.

I totally disagree that you or he either one should break the news to his buddy. His fiance is the one who should do that. But for you to talk to *her*? Absolutely. Go for it. Don't be shocked if she denies that she was part of it, if she says and maybe even truly believes that he was pursuing and she was just a "victim". But yes, you need to work through this with her, too. You are dealing with two major betrayals and that sucks. Do what you can to try to actually heal both rifts or, if necessary, to get closure on the frienship. But if her attitude is good, maybe you can repair the friendship along with our marriage, and be on even more solid ground than ever. That would be an amazing feeling.

The counseling will help. You are going to come through this beautifully.

[TahliasMom]

hugs to you. i hope everything works out!!! stay strong...

[gatorsmom]

Losing trust in someone is so painful, I know, I"ve been there.

I just wanted to say that it sounds like you 2 could absolutely work out your differences, but like Janey said, you should really do it in counseling. Because otherwise, it already sounds like you are allowing him to blame you for something he has done. And even though the physical affection issue might be part of the problem, he has other issues that he just hasn't recognized that are helping cause this behavior. And even if you try to be more physically affectionate, you'll be discouraged again because you can't fix the other issues that the 2 of you don't even know about.

Get a good counselor. There are some rotten ones out there, so ask around. Be patient. And hugs and good luck.