"Daddy I can't be President because I'm a Girl"

[Marisa6826]

That's what Sophie told Jonathan the other night. We were pretty shocked, as we've NEVER told either of the girls that they couldn't do something based on their gender. I really have to wonder how it came about...

Anyway, Jonathan told her that at this very moment a Lady is running for President, and that Sophie and Mia could both be ANYTHING they wanted to be. We then ran down a list of the most obscure professions we could name.

So far, the consensus is that Mia wants to be a Zebra Keeper and Sophie would like to be a Princess. I suggested that Sophie shoot for being a Queen, but she insists Princess is better. Oh, well...

Since that conversation, I've been really thinking hard about whether there would be career that I would actively discourage them from pursuing as adults. I can only come up with two. One being a Prostitute (for obvious reasons). The other, an Actor. I think I'd be OK with them pursuing acting as a hobby, just not as a career. I would expect them to get a degree that would allow them to be self sufficient, and if they still wanted to act, then great, but they could still support themselves with a 'real job'. (I guess I've just had too many unrealistic friends/roommates/co-workers waiting to be 'discovered'.)

So, has this sort of conversation come up in your house? What would/did you say, especially if you have DDs?

-m

[lmintzer]

I don't discourage the boys from doing anything. I would hate if they were pilots or astronauts (just because I'd worry), but I wouldn't try to stop them.

I totally disagree on the actor thing, btw. One CAN make it in the arts--it's tough, but amazingly rewarding if that's one's calling. My brother is a jazz musician and educator, and he's supporting himself teaching at the college level. He's got a master's and he's probably going back for his Ph.D.

We have 4 friends who are actors. Two teach college as well as act, and one other acts and works for IBM part time from home. They are professionals--it's more than just a hobby. They know that they need to be self-sufficient, and they do what they need to do to be just that. They act, work other jobs when needed, and follow their dreams!

[Marisa6826]

We have 4 friends who are actors. Two teach college as well as act, and one other acts and works for IBM part time from home. They are professionals--it's more than just a hobby. They know that they need to be self-sufficient, and they do what they need to do to be just that. They act, work other jobs when needed, and follow their dreams!
I think I maybe wasn't clear enough. I'd be fine with them acting if they were able to maintain jobs similar to your friends. What I don't want them to end up doing is being career waitresses at a local NYC coffee shop waiting for their next big break, KWIM? Jonathan and I have both had more than a few friends that go from wait jobs or borrowing money to pay rent every month so they can go on 'go sees' and just don't seem to want to grow up and accept that they need to be responsible grownups. That is kind of where I draw the line. It's one thing when you're 22, it's another when you're 32.

-m

[lmintzer]

Gotcha! I see. I thought you were against them acting. My actor/actress friends are wonderful, impressive people. I am such a supporter of the arts--I would be proud if my kids chose a field in the arts. Of course, I'd want them to make a living, too. : )

[trales]

DD can be almost anything she wants to be. I would rather her not be a lawyer, DH is a lawyer, as is my sis, BIL, mother etc. We need variety. While strippers can make a very nice living, she can do better:)

[KBecks]

I was thinking about this a while ago -- that girls don't have nearly as much opportunity to pursue professional sports as men. Not that many men make it huge in professional sports, but you know. It's one profession where women have little opportunity and reward compared to men.

[Lovingliv]

"Since that conversation, I've been really thinking hard about whether there would be career that I would actively discourage them from pursuing as adults. I can only come up with two. One being a Prostitute (for obvious reasons). The other, an Actor. I think I'd be OK with them pursuing acting as a hobby, just not as a career. I would expect them to get a degree that would allow them to be self sufficient, and if they still wanted to act, then great, but they could still support themselves with a 'real job'. (I guess I've just had too many unrealistic friends/roommates/co-workers waiting to be 'discovered'.)"




Gee, I really encourage Liv to do anything that interests her. If she wants to be an actress I have to step back and let her lead the way....her life is just that...her life. I would have been crushed if my mom discouraged me from doing what I wanted.....
I do agree on the education part.....a degree is something that nobody can ever take away from you.....

[bubbaray]

I'm not so sure my DDs can be anything they want. I think one lawyer per family is more than enough.... ;) DH will faint if either of them becomes a lawyer! DD#1 is already showing aptitude in the oral argument area, though.

[Marisa6826]

I'm not so sure my DDs can be anything they want. I think one lawyer per family is more than enough.... ;) DH will faint if either of them becomes a lawyer! DD#1 is already showing aptitude in the oral argument area, though.

LOL. My entire IL family is nothing but lawyers (that would be 3 in the immediate family and then at least another 4 or 5 in the extended). Makes for some, um, interesting - if not heated - get togethers.

Jonathan's actually pushing for the girls to be doctors. I asked when the last time it was that he checked the cost of med schools. :eek:

-m

[KBecks]

I would have been crushed if my mom discouraged me from doing what I wanted.....
I do agree on the education part.....a degree is something that nobody can ever take away from you.....


I wanted to be a lawyer and my mom rallied against that ambition and refused to let me take Latin classes in high school. She didn't want me to go to college either. (I did.) I agree with supporting kids in their passions because it sucks to have resistance and lack of cooperation and to know your parent is unsupportive of your goals and dreams.

[egoldber]

Just because you have a law degree doesn't mean you have to be a practicing lawyer. A lot of people use their law degrees in other professions. Just a thought.

[JTsMom]

The title of this thread makes me so :gloomy: . I would have hoped that our children's generation wouldn't have to deal with these types of issues, especially not a your DD's age.

I don't have much to add as far as plans for a future occupation for DS b/c he is so little still, but I guess in general, I just hope that he does something that makes him happy, and keeps a roof over his head and food in his belly.

He has certain limits b/c of his heart condition, but we're talking things like no football and no military service.

[Lovingliv]

I wanted to be a lawyer and my mom rallied against that ambition and refused to let me take Latin classes in high school. She didn't want me to go to college either. (I did.) I agree with supporting kids in their passions because it sucks to have resistance and lack of cooperation and to know your parent is unsupportive of your goals and dreams.



Good for you, Kecks! You should be proud of yourself....you are one strong woman!!!! My mom encouraged me to do what ever I wanted,,,,even though it is something she would never have chosen.....it always made me feel great...and that I could be anything.....because she had faith in me!
Your boys are lucky, K. Your future daughters (should you decide to have any) will be even luckier!!!!!!!

[Fairy]

Not yet. But today, DS said, "Michael is brown." That's one of his Little People that, technically, I think came in a Happy Meal or something. Now, he often announces what color things are, like the couches are blue and the the walls are white and Magenta is pink. So, I'm not sure in what context he's talking, like he's noticing skin color or he's just announcing that his Michael Little Person is brown.

Now, to be fair, he also announced to me just a few hours ago after he pooped in the potty (yes!) that his poopie is brown. So, he may just be fixated on brown right now. Or ... poop?

[ThreeofUs]

I well remember the argument my mom and I had 30 years ago about the ability of women to lead, and the reasons she gave for not letting me go to college early - these were real blows to me. She was of a very different generation, however, and was proud of me when, as an adult, I got degrees and led nonprofits. But I'm very sad that a little girl today could get feedback that makes her think women can't do anything they want to do. :(

That said, I really like the tack a friend of mine took with her kids. She talked to them about following your heart and intellect, and about the responsibility we all bear to ourselves and the people who love us. She told her kids to learn as best you can about the things you need to know, do something for the world, and grow throughout your life and make a mark.

I'm perhaps not putting it well, but it was a very holistic view that I'm going to try on my child(ren). After all, there are many paths to a good life. Wrt degrees and professions, I think I would talk to my kid(s) about easier versus harder paths, and ways of being that drag you down versus giving you wings.

[elephantmeg]

The best advice my parents ever gave my brother and I was to figure out what we really enjoyed doing and how to get someone to pay us to do it. My mom had an english degree/teaching and HATED teaching English :) Mom was also big into the Myers-Brigg personality typing and we did them several times though high school and college. Both my brother and I love our professions and get paid to do them. He's a computer programer and I'm a nurse. I plan on having the same discussion with our kids. I have several cousins who did psych or music as undergraduate and are working at starbucks etc.

[KBecks]

That is great that you and your brother found professions you love. I took career classes several years ago and my top match for a job was a priest. :) Well, I decided not to do that. :) I should dig up my results and go through them again, that would be fun.

[StantonHyde]

In last Sunday's Parade Magazine they listed all the women Heads of State in the world. Now some I expected--a Scandanavian country--but there were others in Africa and Asia as well as Europe--the Ukraine too. So I think we need to look at the world. What is it about the US that we cannot elect a woman?? Margaret Thatcher held her own against Reagan...maybe we focus too much on being able to be the Commander in Chief..I don't know.

I will actively communicate the following career standards to my children:
1. You must have a college degree or the equivalent in an apprentice/technical degree
2.You must be self sufficient
3. Whatever you do has to be legal

Once you meet those criteria, knock your socks off. I am the only person in my family who cannot be referred to as Doctor (I "only" have an MA) so it's not like my kids are going to lack for higher education encouragement. And we are saving to pay for a top private college so $ won't be an obstacle.

The only thing I can see discouraging my DD to do (DS just does not have the personality to even want to do this and I can TOTALLY see DD doing it) is to be a professional extreme skiier. You know, the people who chuck themselves off mountains, try not to land on rocks, and talk about "catching air" in terms of whether or not it was "hospital air". Oh--and no motorcycles, not now, not ever. (DH is an ER MD)

[KBecks]

I'm the same about motorcycles and the same standards on education. Tech school is fine, and if they want to drive trucks after getting their degrees that's fine too.

I don't think that America can't elect a woman, it's just that the right woman just hasn't come along yet. American work culture is so much more demanding than in other countries, I can understand why fewer women want to pursue big time political and corporate careers -- it's a ton of sacrifice.