Career advice - or what to do when I grow up (long)

[niccig]

Joking about the grow up comment - well sort of.

Background - I was a reference librarian at universities before DS was born. I became a librarian so I could increase my research skills before going back to graduate school in a history related field. I also needed to work and it was a good fit for a while, but I got side-tracked into Law Libraries - and that wasn't so much fun, and I missed doing my own research. The plan was to be a SAHM with DS, and spend time doing classes through UCLA extension in archaeology/anthropology related subjects and volunteer with an archaeologist as her research assistant, and "eventually" enroll full-time once I know what I want to write my thesis on. That's worked well for the last 2 years.

Problem - the "eventually" part of the plan is now sooner rather than later. DH and I are talking about future plans and most of that hinges on what I want to do - go back to study, where, what, when, or try to get a job through the archaeologist I volunteer with, but that would be in the admin part of her museum work and not the research.

To throw a curve ball - DH is talking about moving to Boulder. His uncle/aunt/cousins all live there and he lived there in his early 20's. I know it would be a great place to bring up DS - the extended family are amazing people, they're very active in their community and everyone we've met we've had very interesting, intellectually challenging conversations, we could do all the outdoor activities, DS could go to the great schools DH's 13yo cousin has attended that are more in line with how we want DS to be educated than what we have here (Los Angeles). DH can work from Boulder for his current company, 2 other people telecommute, and his uncle said DH could rent office space in his architecture firm, so DH isn't isolated all day.

But it all hinges on me, and what I want to do and whether I can do it there. Problem is, I don't know what I want to commit to. I need to work this out, not just about moving, but long-term what do I want to do, as I feel I will regret not doing it, but I'm scared to do it, hence why I avoid trying to answer the question "what do I want to do when I grow up" - pretty silly as I'm in my early 30's.

So, any advice??

[MontrealMum]

I do not know much about departments for antho/archeology, but there are a few good history departments in Colorado depending on your field (I know UofColo Boulder was big on British Hst. for awhile there)- tho I wouldn't recommend you go that route unless you have a dissertation proposal or two ready, which it doesn't sound like you do at this point. Of course if you stay in LA there are many more really good programs to choose from, but still, you have to take some time and think about what you'd want to study, and that's not an easy thing, I know!

You could go back to being librarian , and focus on finding a position as an academic librarian since there are a number of large schools in either area and I'm sure they're hiring somewhere. Are you still a member of the ALA? Another place to look for job postings is H-net - there are various lists, but I think there is a new one devoted to Lib. Sci. I think, though , that you might need a PhD for some of those positions, but not all - or hiring is contingent on working towards a PhD.

I would not recommend you go back to do a PhD in arch. until you are absolutely certain of what you want to do. It's hard to get a spot if you aren't really sure what you want to research, for one, and it's pretty competitive - and worse if you are not super-passionate about what you are doing. Plus, you already have an MLIS which is generally pretty marketable, whether you've been out of the game for awhile or not.

Just so you don't think I'm just throwing things out there without knowing what I'm talking about...I am following somewhat the opposite track as you. I have been doing paid research on the side, but I am presently finishing the revisions on my dissertation in History, and taking MLIS courses to become an archivist - because I was disappointed and frustrated by how much I'd have to compromise (moving, DH's job, being near family) in order to get an academic teaching position in my field. I guess that's why I'm inclined to tell you not to consider that unless you're super motivated and have a sure direction to go.

Academia is really difficult to break into, it's even harder with a DH who has needs of his own career-wise, and kids as well. There are many more Phds than jobs, and schools are still accepting more students even though there is nowhere for them to work when they're done. Academia is great, and research is very rewarding, but you really have to be focused, and directed. Unless you have some really good research topic ideas, I would focus on finding a library-related job that you can live with.

If you went back into the world of academic libraries you could do research again since it's expected that you do publish and present at conferences. You might have to take a refresher course or two depending on how long you've been out of the game - my university has a mini-accredidation course for people who already have their MLIS - I'm sure UCLA must have something similar.

There are companies that do history-related research though I am not too familiar with them. You could try looking around on the H-net website or googling it - if research is really what you want to do. I don't know your field or background though so I'll leave it at that.

I don't mean to tell you not to follow your dream if going back to school is what that is, but it's just so difficult with a partner and kids. First you have to find a program where you live that will accept you (I left the country for that one), then when you finish you have to find a job (I have a friend that have moved from coast to coast twice for that) - and that job may be a mat. replacement or other non-tenure, if you get a full-time job that is non-tenure start looking for something else after 3-5 years - which will be in another state most likely, then if you do get so lucky as to get a tenure-track position you will have to jump through more hoops to get tenure. It's a huge amount of uncertainty, and moving around which is really difficult on a single person, not to mention a partner with a career, and kids in school. Not impossible, but it should really be your passion.

If you just want to do arch. research or lab work I am not as familiar with that, but I will say that my SIL is a trained archaeologist and eventually got out of it because it was all contract work and she just couldn't deal with the uncertainty anymore. Lots of moving across the country there too, and never knowing when that next paycheck would come.

I hope I'm not being a downer, but if you are not completely turned off by librarianship, just that one law job, I'd really focus on finding something else within the same field. :)

[ha98ed14]

Man, could this be MY story! The only difference is that it is my aunt/ uncle/ cousins (not DH's) and they live in Minneapolis, but still it is a far cry from SoCal. (I am in O.C.)

I also went to grad school, graduated, and had a "real job" for 2 years before DD was born. I quit when I was preggo. It was a good excuse to get out of a job that had gone south. Now I want to go back and it is driving me NUTS that I can't find anything, even part time!

Personally, I think, whether you move to Boulder or not, you MUST keep some aspect of your professional and/ or intellectual life going. It was important enough for you to keep it going this long, so don't give it up now! But, yes, it is very hard to commit to a concrete form of that intellectual/ professional life. But the fact that you have been volunteering means you are already in the swing of things, so its not like you are going back after years if being a total SAHM.

After reading the PP, I have to agree with Montreal Mum's assessment of breaking into academia and the stress of a mid-life career change with a kid and a DH, who also has a career. I would seriously explore some librarian related opportunities. You can always take arch. classes "for the fun of it." I know that is not the serious academic research you might be seeking, but if you really enjoy learning, it might fill the desire to be active in the field.

I think the questions you have to ask yourself are these:

Do I want to commit to working full time? (Take into account that you lose the flexibility of being a SAHM in some form and now have to be on someone else's time table.)

If I do not want to work full time, what part time options do I have? (As a librarian, you should have some. What about working part time at a public/ city/ county library or a university library. My MIL worked for 20+ yrs at the local community college library and loved it. If you did get in at a academic library, you could take classes and maybe even coordinate resources for the history and arch departments, or find other ways to work with the departments.)

If you are open to moving to Boulder, I would start looking for possible library jobs there, just to see who is hiring. If you need to make a fast decision, I would take the administrative job from the professor you are currently working for and keep looking for a library job, even if you have to do the looking on the sly. You can always quit the administrative job if you get a better offer, either in LA or Boulder. (You may have loyalty to the prof., but you gotta do what is going to make you happy. And after years of working for free for her, she's gotta understand your need to make money, especially in SoCal.) I would give it a year. Give yourself a solid year to look for a library job, and if you find one in Boulder, go there. If in LA, then stay here. If DH can really work from anywhere, a year will not really matter that much to him. If after a year, you haven't found a permanent position and DH still wants to move to Boulder, make the move with him. I do not think you should commit your heart and soul to the administrative job because it does not sound like you really want that. It sounds to me like you enjoy your own intellect too much to commit to being a glorified secretary for the rest of your career.
Just my 2 cents.

Good luck. I know how hard it is to keep some semblance of a career and intellectual life post-baby. You aren't alone. Your post made me realize that I'm not either.

[niccig]

Thank you. It's nice to know I'm not alone with these feelings. I really never settled on a career, I fell into it, and I was good at it, but I never felt fully satisfied. I know that no one job can give my everything, and that I might need to find other ways to add in what is missing eg. volunteer or classes.

My problem is with finding out what to do. I talked with the archaeologist, who is now research/exhibitions project manager for the museum. She told me to go buy What Colour is your Parachute - I hate that book, because it asks questions that I don't want to answer, and I'm scared to answer. But it's time to find an answer or I'll spend even more aimless years.

I don't think a traditional library environment is where I want to return, I missed research, but I did like the team environment, and I enjoyed the teaching aspect of the job. I worked for several months on an education project in the Law Faculty, and the "get what you can get for yourself" attitude drove me crazy, and it took me some time to get used to working without team members. I'm hesitant about working in academia for the reasons Montreal Mom listed - the drive you need to have to publish and succeed, and the difficulty of getting work. I have 2 sisters who are both university lecturers, and I taught legal research methods to graduate students - I know what the life is like. One sister has the drive, she wants everyone to know she is the expert on Internet Marketing, and she has her Dr. and Phd. listed on everything (including credit cards and plane tickets). The other sister is in Education, and she enjoys it, but says she may not always do it.

I know I don't want full-time work at the moment. And it is difficult to find part-time work. I spoke with the archaeologist as she's been offering me work for the last year. She said she has a number of discrete projects that she could use help with with employment on a project by project basis - an information management system, my first reaction was admin related, but as she told me more it's System's Analysis and Design that I really enjoyed in my MLIS. She also needs research like annotated bibliographies of Pre-Columbian societies, and more information on certain items in the collection for the new collection's database and educational content on the museum's web page. The volunteer work I currently do for her is on the site she was lead archaeologist on in Peru. The excavations were over 10 years ago, and there's a lot of material still unpublished. I'm redeisgning all the databases and working with the museum's web guru to have them accessible to the other researchers, and I'm writing a paper on the archaeological sequence. If I work part-time for her, it will not be for the Peruvian site, but I could continue working on it as volunteer work.

I don't have to make any decisions right now - I have enough on my plate for the next couple of months. And I have to remember that any decisions I make, can be changed - I always feel like a decision is set in stone and can't be changed. I do need to get serious and come up with some answers. It would be a lot simpler if I was 10 years younger and single, no kids, but I'm not and I do need to take that into account. But I don't want to make a decision based solely on my family's needs, I know myself and I will later resent sacrificing my dreams. Now to work out what I want and need, how to get that, and for it to work with the family as well. I like the idea of giving myself a year to work on this big question - I feel like I have a deadline then, so I don't wake up in 5 years still without answers.

[MontrealMum]

The volunteer work I currently do for her is on the site she was lead archaeologist on in Peru. The excavations were over 10 years ago, and there's a lot of material still unpublished. I'm redeisgning all the databases and working with the museum's web guru to have them accessible to the other researchers, and I'm writing a paper on the archaeological sequence. If I work part-time for her, it will not be for the Peruvian site, but I could continue working on it as volunteer work.


Sorry, I wanted to write again last night but just didn't have enough time. I think that what you posted in the quote above sounds like a good place to start work-wise, and concerning personal fulfillment, but I would be concerned about all this "volunteering". The type of things she has you doing are often given to grad. students as research assistants, or contracted out - in either case there is remuneration, and some credit assigned. You haven't mentioned the need for a second salary in your job-quest, but still I think it's important you don't get in a sitatuation where you are being used.

I may be reading more into the situation, since I am just reading your description of it, but I would be a little wary. Just looking around my own department there seems to be quite a call for the more technical-savvy librarian types these days - and they are hiring more and more grad. students and MA-only grads to teach new courses that address skills we need in the electronic age. Web Design, Systems Design, Database Design (both intro. and advanced), and Abstracting and Indexing are all being taught by grad students or sessional lecturers this year alone.

I would guess that half to a third of the courses in my SIS department are taught by non-faculty members, and some are even from outside my univeristy (we have 4 universities here in town). There is obviously a need for qualified people, and a shortage of faculty with the appropriate PhD in the field. You mentioned that you were interested in Systems and Database design - I would have no idea how to do this myself, but I'd bet you could parley that into some sort of consulting business or contract work.

I think you do have a lot of tough questions to ask yourself, and I know how difficult and scary that is to do - but it seems that you really need this for yourself as well. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to compromise your dreams and intellectual stimulation because of a husband or children. Your dreams and fulfillment are just as important as his. It sounds like your DH is very supportive, which is a huge bonus, many women don't have that going for them, so at least you have that to start with.

Maybe you need to decide where you're going to live first, and then decide on the career path? I guess that depends on whether you're going to be taking classes or not, since that really depends on the local university. The advice about the book (not familiar with it myself) sounds like a good place to start. Maybe you could also make a list of what you liked, and didn't like about your previous work experiences?

Academia is still not the friendliest place to women, IMO. Not that you shouldn't consider it, but it takes a lot of conviction and drive, and a thick skin. For me it came down to, what I wanted out of life in my 20s was no longer what I want in my 30s . I still have many of the same goals, but their importance in terms of priority has changed for me. Maturity and life change how you look at things.

It sounds like you've been going through a lot of change and upheaval in general these days (I've been reading your posts about your surgery and voice traumas) - and some would say that this is not such a good time to make big life decisions. I think, though, that sometimes times of turmoil
are the ideal time to completely rethink everything. Stress causes you to really focus on what's important, and can bring more clarity.

So, good luck - you sound like a very strong woman - and you have that MLIS training behind you so I know you'll do all the appropriate research! I really hope that you can find something that makes you happy :)

[niccig]

Thanks for replying again. I started volunteering while I was waiting to get my work permit, as I couldn't legally work and I needed to do something during those 2 years. I stopped the volunteer work once I got a job at UCLA libraries. I started again when DS was 1 year old, as I needed something for me. It's worked for the last 2 years as I did as much or as little as I had time for. I am getting credit for the work - I'm 3rd author on one paper being published in an archeology journal and first author on the conference paper. But you're right, this kind of work normally gets paid. I haven't wanted paid work before now, as my focus has been on DS. He's now 3 and at preschool, so I'm now thinking about what I want to do.

DH and I talked last night about some of the options. I do need to work through what I do and don't want in both professional and personal life. I think a big question I need to answer is whether I want to be the principal researcher or will I be happy doing research/working for someone else. I know someone who worked as a research assistant for a legal research center, she enjoyed it but is now doing her PhD as she wanted to work on her own interests.

You've giving me lots of things to think about - thanks, it has helped to discuss things. Today I'm not so scared of the questions, but starting to get excited about the process. And you're right, with the MLIS background, I'll research the options to death!

[ha98ed14]

I just read your second exchange of posts, and I just want you to know that the fact that you both exist on this planet and are thinking about and struggling with these issues makes me feel not so alone. Thanks for sharing your thoughts "in a public forum." If there was a way to meet for coffee, you two ladies would be my first choice! And Montreal Mom, you are a wise, wise woman.

[MontrealMum]

First off, thanks for the compliment - maybe I get to be wise in exchange for all these new aches and pains?

I just wanted to say that this has all made me feel a little less alone as well. It was a very hard decision for me to take my career off the front burner temporarily in favor of motherhood. And I am generally quite satisfied with my choice, but it's not easy every day and it really does help knowing that there are other women who have travelled or are travelling a similar path :) Very few of my friends in "real life" are going through this, so it has really helped meeting a few who are - at least in the virtual world. And I second the coffee idea :)

[niccig]

I would be interested in coffee too, none of my IRL friends are struggling with this issue. Either they're happy with being SAHM or they already have made work/career choice. Montreal is a little far, but ha98ed14 I'm in Glendale, CA - not just down the road, but not crazy far either.

[ha98ed14]

I sent you a PM...