What would you do?

[bubbaray]

Today, I noticed a coworker of mine has an install "issue" with respect to her child's car seat. I swear, I was NOT stalking her car, she just happened to be parked right beside the entranced I used.... ;)

Her child is ~18m. The seat was (of course, sigh) FFg (outboard passenger side in a new-ish Toyota Corolla). The seat was/is a Britax MA. The harness was set at the lowest setting, which is my issue. I didn't see if it was TTg, though maybe I should have checked that too (sigh) -- its mandatory here.

Now, granted, I haven't seen her child in a while, but there is NO WAY that that 18mo is at the lowest harness setting on a MA. The harness should be at or ABOVE the shoulders for a FFg install. I am 100% positive on that and I know for a fact that the manual states that (I have 2 of the same seats). Mom and dad are both tall (taller than my DH and I, though we're not short). FWIW, both mom and dad are lawyers and obviously able to read an installation manual.

I'm torn about what to do. Part of me says "say nothing", not my kid not my problem. Part of me thinks I should say something (nicely) b/c I would feel terrible if something happened to the child in an accident.

I've worked with this coworker for a few years now. We are on OK terms, though I wouldn't say we're friends.

BTW, I'm posting this here and not Car Seats b/c I'd like to get a bigger cross section of replies -- I'm pretty sure what those of us who hang out over on Car Seats would say, LOL.

Would you say something or not??

[megs4413]

I voted other because what I probably would do (and have done before) is offer to help with the install myself. No, I'm not a tech, but I could offer some pointers and help make sense of the manual. I don't think people mean to do it incorrectly and they don't want it to be installed incorrectly...it just takes more effort and more learning than people realize to DO it correctly so they make careless mistakes. I have made these same mistakes and when the first tech I saw set me straight years ago by telling me that my daughter was basically unprotected in the car, i was GRATEFUL! I don't really care how I come off to people (people I know that is) when I approach them about this, my main concern is the safety of the child. If I just repeat to myself "the baby is safer, the baby is safer", it's worth the uncomfortableness (no it's not a word) of the moment with the mommy or daddy (or grandparents). So, I would say, "listen, X, I happened to notice that your seat wasn't installed the way i was told to install my MA. If you want, I'll take a look at it with you and make sure it's in good. It was actually a lot harder than I thought it would be to get it in correctly, and you definitely need two sets of hands."

hopefully she'll be willing to let you help her get it right.

[babystuffbuff]

It's always a tough decision, isn't it? While I wouldn't say something to a stranger, I have no problem (nicely) mentioning seat problems to someone I know, no matter the relationship. I have spoken to my sisters-in-law about FFing the minute their children turned one year, using a Bundle Me, etc. Not that it did any good (ARGH!) but at least I gave them the information. Like you said, it is their child and their choice - even if those children are my precious nieces and nephews. At the moment I am struggled with how to tell my one SIL that my niece's shoulders are creeping up over the top slots in her RA and she needs a new seat. Of course, she'll be 3 in a few months so they'll probably wait until then and get her a booster. *sigh*

I would say something to your coworker, gently and matter-of-factly. Since you have a child not much younger than hers, you could even put it under the guise of, "I was at the ped the other day, and he/she said I really had to be careful about my carseats, so many of them are used incorrectly...."

Good luck!

[janeybwild]

I voted Other. I hate conflict, especially with people I don’t know but need to keep a relationship with. I’d be tempted to tell a small porky pie (lie) which might do the trick here. I’d send her an e-mail. Dear x, I just went to a car seat safety check this weekend and learned some things about my installed MA that I’m passing on to everybody I know with a carseat. I don’t want anyone to make the same mistakes that I have and inadvertently put their child at risk. Turns out I had the straps set too low. Etc. I don't mind looking bad when its for the greater good :)

[psophia17]

I'd say something, but be self-depracating about it, kwim?

A casual "oh hey, I saw you had the same seat as us, and noticed you've made the same mistake we made," even if you never made that mistake, could do the trick.

[MontrealMum]

I would say something along the lines of what Petra or Janey suggested. Mention you have the same seat, be casual, mention the difference in installation and gently suggest the correct way. I might try to park next to or near her, and either leave or arrive at the same time to make the whole thing seem "accidental".

[KBecks]

I would be inclined not to mention it. Unless you are a tech. Then you have more of an "excuse".

I also think it would be different if you saw her child in the seat with the straps too low and the co-worker was right there. Then you could point it out in the moment.

[DrSally]

I would look for a casual way to mention it. "You know, I didn't know this before either, but for a ff carseat, the straps should be above the child's shoulders..." If I happen to be there when the child is in the carseat, that would make it easier

[bubbaray]

Thanks everyone. Hmmm, it would be hard to find a casual way to mention it and a snowballs chance in you-know-where that I will see her child at the office. She did come to my place a couple of times (once while PG to see 'the gear' and once while we were both on mat leave). I've never been (invited) to her place. Our office is NOT child friendly.

Ironically, she & her DH used to do MVA ins. def. litigation, so you would think that they would be a little more concerned about vehicle safety than the average bear, KWIM? You'd also think that someone who was inclined to purchase a nearly $300 seat might also be inclined to USE IT properly. Guess not.

If it happens to come up in conversation, I might point her in the direction of a car seat inspection (BCAA does them here). We talk so rarely that if I did it any other way, she would definitely know it was intentional, not casual, KWIM?

I dunno. I'm still sad about the whole thing.

[elephantmeg]

I took our car to a seat check knowing the installs were wrong (I couldn't get them tight) and despite knowing a fair amt about car seats I had made 2 huge mistakes that I hadn't realized-one was the the straps are supposed to be above for FF the other was the way the belt threds for FF. I appreciated these corrections (and the numerous others I got!) and would want someone to point them out. I was embaressed but SO GLAD that I got them checked after my gut said "they're not right".

[SpaceGal]

I wouldn't say anything because I think some people just choose not to care about car seats as much as they could, like they feel good enough just having one in the car if you know what I mean.

Some people have the best things but don't know anything about it's abilities or things it can do to be better/safe/useful product. My sis-in-law and her husband are doctors...rich beyond means...but they are clueless about car seats...her then 1.5 year old son rides in a booster that requires just the seatbelt. She looked at me and said oh you have nice car seats...I was going to get them but they are so big and heavy, hassle and inconvenient. I was just floored to hear that. So because of her laziness and what not she puts her son in a car seat that I am sure is not right for him. I just smiled and said I'm a stickler about car seats and I want my boys safe rather than worry about how I feel about buckling them in the car.

[infocrazy]

I voted tell.

My co-workers think that I am neurotic about car seats since I kept DS1 RF until he was 2 1/2, so they wouldn't think anything of it of me telling them...

However, they still have made choices to put their 1.5 yo in a seat belt only booster because "he wanted to be like his sisters..." Fortunately, MI just passed a booster law so by the time my boys get there, everyone should at least be using a booster and consider them for school trips! :)

I would usually make some comment like how tall is DC these days, I only ask because I happened to see your seat was in the lowest slot height and I was surprised that my DS was in the one above...something like that.

[elektra]

I was thinking way too much about a similar situation too. In my case it was my BIL and SIL who turned their DD FF as soon as she hit 1 year. I stressed out about how to bring it up to them because I didn't want to come across as paranoid or a "know-it-all". And I didn't want to put them on the defensive by giving unsolicited advice that could be construed as me basically telling them that I know more as a parent.
However, it all went pretty well when I finally just brought it up in conversation. SIL did not even know that RF was recommended or safer. I actually don't know if they ever changed the seats but SIL is an intelligent and educated person, so she may have researched it further. And whatever her final decision was, I am fine with that since I at least gave her the info about RF.

So you may get a defensive response, and your co-worker may think you are paranoid and nosy, and it will not be comfortable bringing it up randomly.
But if you do end up doing it, you will feel so much better after!
And she may seriously welcome the info.

I mean if it was me, I would want someone to let me know if I had my car seats installed wrong, or was using some recalled toy or something.

[C99]

I wouldn't say anything, as really, it's none of my business. People make parenting (and other) decisions all the time that I wouldn't make, and I'm sure I do things differently than other people as well. It's really not my place to make judgments on those decisions or correct them. If someone asks me my advice or opinion, I'll gladly offer it. But otherwise? no.

I'd be seriously pi$$ed off if someone looked into my car and told me that my carseat installs were wrong.

[KBecks]

I'd be seriously pi$$ed off if someone looked into my car and told me that my carseat installs were wrong.

I was kind of thinking that too. I think my first thought would be, why the heck are you looking inside my car? Not the best for work relations.

I know you are sad but the likelihood of them being in an accident before they realize the straps are obviously too low is small. They're going to figure it out eventually.

[bubbaray]

I'd be seriously pi$$ed off if someone looked into my car and told me that my carseat installs were wrong.

Sheesh, you make it sound like like I'm going from car to car in the parking lot inspecting car seat installs. That is NOT the case.

I didn't go up to the car and peer in the windows. I walked by on my way from my own vehicle, through the parking lot, to an entrance into my office building. Her vehicle was parked in the spot right beside where one has to walk to use that entrance. I glanced at her vehicle as I walked by, noticed she had an MA and thought to myself "Good -- she listened to me when I told her not to buy the $300 bumper/duvet crib bedding and save it for a decent convertible seat".

As I continued walking by, I noticed that the harness was on the wrong setting. I did not break my pace, didn't slow down, or move closer to the car. I seriously was just walking by and these thoughts processed through my brain within a couple of steps. It was a bright sunny day, her windows aren't tinted and there are no window shades on the vehicle. The vehicle interior was dark colored and the MA is light beige. The seat was clearly visible as I walked by.

I'm leaning towards saying nothing. If she's not willing to read the MA manual and install the seat properly, she's probably not willing to learn how to install the seat properly from me. If she asks, I'll tell her, but I can't see that happening.

[linsei]

nak
i would want someone to tell me. i like the ways mentioned above.
margaret thanks for the reminder. i've been meaning to have a pro check our seats since ds1 was born and have not done it (eek!). that was almost 4 yrs ago! i *think* they're installed correctly, but i'm sure lots of people think that when they are wrong. i've got to find someone to check them.

[mom2binsd]

I"d preface it by maybe letting her know that she may not have realized that when they moved him FF there are a lot of things that change..you could explain then the benefits of RF...but if she still wants to FF- maybe say you also made a few mistakes with your seat first time too...like did she reverse the latch connectors (many don't do this), and then offer to show her how to do all of the installation corrections...making it seem like you also made the same rookie mistakes might make it seen less intimidating.

[egoldber]

FWIW, Amy is still RF in her MA, but her shoulders are still below the bottom slots. She's 18 months old and 75th percentile for height, but its all in her legs.

[bubbaray]

FWIW, Amy is still RF in her MA, but her shoulders are still below the bottom slots. She's 18 months old and 75th percentile for height, but its all in her legs.


OK, see that's really helpful. Its hard for me to picture an 18mo that is below those bottom slots (regardless of whether the seat is RFg or FFg) -- so that's good to know that it *IS* possible.

[kijip]

I voted other because what I probably would do (and have done before) is offer to help with the install myself. No, I'm not a tech, but I could offer some pointers and help make sense of the manual. I don't think people mean to do it incorrectly and they don't want it to be installed incorrectly...it just takes more effort and more learning than people realize to DO it correctly so they make careless mistakes.
:yeahthat: This is pretty much my answer exactly, except for I happen to be a tech so I have an explaination as to why I can help them:). This is what I encourage people to do- don't judge and offer HELP. I have never had anyone get mad at me for offering them help, but that may be because I tend to be VERY casual and non-judgmental about it and possibily because I can often mention my expertise/trianing as a tech and get them to ask me like it was their idea. I honestly don't think it is questioning a parenting decision, when done politely, respectfully and warmly, it is about sharing information and offering support.

I have seen doctors and professionals just as befuddled on this issue as anyone else and have drawn the conclusion that correct use really does not seem to be connected in ANY way to education level or professional status.

[MamaMolly]

I think I'd tell her, but in a sneaky way. I'd make a point of starting a conversation *near* her or in a group with her, complaining about what a pain in the butt it is to get your Marathon installed correctly FF in your car. You can say how you didn't know you had to have the straps higher if if was FF, blah blah blah, then say how in the end you decided to stay RF cause it turns out is is so much safer and it was easier to get a good fit.

Maybe a lightbulb will go on over her head. Or you can go further and ask if she had the same problem. Or tell her you had such a hard time moving the straps up, what was it like when she did it?

You can talk to her about it with out letting her know you looked in her car. Not that it was creepy or inappropriate, but in your OP, that seems to be the sticking point of weather or not to speak up to her.

Best of luck, and you are so kind to care so much!

[dcmom2b3]

FWIW, Amy is still RF in her MA, but her shoulders are still below the bottom slots. She's 18 months old and 75th percentile for height, but its all in her legs.

:yeahthat:

I was going to chime in that it's especially hard to raise the issue unless you also know how tall the child is. My DD also sits "shorter" in her seat than you'd expect.

But, as for the reason you looked at the seat in the first place -- were you perhaps "noticing" or "admiring" the seat cover she has? Because you like it more than yours? (Hint.) Life really is like witness prep . . .

MH

[pb&j]

OK, see that's really helpful. Its hard for me to picture an 18mo that is below those bottom slots (regardless of whether the seat is RFg or FFg) -- so that's good to know that it *IS* possible.

At almost 28 mos, DS still hasn't quite reached the second slots on his MA. He was below the 1st slots for a very, very long time, quite likely until after he was 18 mos. He's 80th percentile height and weight, but has a short torso, just like his mom.

I'd be pretty miffed if someone gave me unsolicited advice about my carseat installation, unless I was committing an obviously egregious error. In the big scheme of things, I don't think that being borderline on slot height would make me confront an acquaintance about it.

[C99]

Sheesh, you make it sound like like I'm going from car to car in the parking lot inspecting car seat installs. That is NOT the case.


How you happened to observe her installs is irrelevant -- it's still not any of your business. And it'd still pi$$ me off if someone looked into my car (even a casual, walk-past glance) and then made a comment about my install. If you barely glanced in, how do you know that the harness was in the wrong place?

[KBecks]

I think the thing with the harness slots is it's pretty obvious that there are multiple height settings and therefore, those straps get moved up as the child grows.

So they will get it and move up those straps eventually. Maybe perfectly on time, maybe not quite. And it's good to know that maybe their child still fits just fine.

Did you check their tether? J/K!

[KrisM]

I voted tell.

My co-workers think that I am neurotic about car seats since I kept DS1 RF until he was 2 1/2, so they wouldn't think anything of it of me telling them...

However, they still have made choices to put their 1.5 yo in a seat belt only booster because "he wanted to be like his sisters..." Fortunately, MI just passed a booster law so by the time my boys get there, everyone should at least be using a booster and consider them for school trips! :)



But, the law is only about boosters. We are in the small hand-ful of 4 years olds not in boosters at preschool. So, you'll be harnessing him and his friends will be in boosters at age 3 :(.

To the OP, I would say something. I said something to a good friend and approached it by saying that I was worried about her kids and felt I needed to say something because if I didn't and something happened to her kids in an accident, I would feel so awful for not helping when I knew I could. She was very appreciative and had me help her out a few times now.

[Rayray24]

I didn't get to read everyone's reply's but for me if I think something is wrong and I don't know know the person but I talk some times, I make it look like I want know. Like say I have my child in this car seat I see you have the same one but I think I have her in it wrong, where is your child... is that the right way? Make it look more like I am not sure either that way they don't think I am trying to be "better" or act like I know all. (ppl I am around are pretty crazy like that) I would say something though, like you said I couldn't go with thinking that something could happen to the baby. It was someone I didn't know though I wouldn't say anything. Just wanted to add my two cents :) Good luck.

~~Jennie~~:yay:

[DrSally]

like did she reverse the latch connectors (many don't do this).

Ok, we were this close to 33 lbs, but then DS got a really bad case of gastroenteritis and is down to 30.5 lbs, so we have a little longer RF, but can you explain "reversing the latch connectors"? I will look at the manual before we turn him, but want to make sure I know what you're talking about. Thanks.

[DrSally]

[QUOTE=kijip I can often mention my expertise/trianing as a tech and get them to ask me like it was their idea. I honestly don't think it is questioning a parenting decision, when done politely, respectfully and warmly, it is about sharing information and offering support.

I have seen doctors and professionals just as befuddled on this issue as anyone else and have drawn the conclusion that correct use really does not seem to be connected in ANY way to education level or professional status.[/QUOTE]

ITA. It's a great idea to frame it as "helping". I would be grateful for help from a knowledgeble CPS who happened to see my seat installed wrong. I would be very grateful. Being a CPS does offer an opening for the other person to ask questions, which is a great way to share info in a nonthreatening manner. I agree education/income has nothing to do with it. I have a PhD, and did not know about RF and a lot other things about carseats until I joined this forum. I think a lot of people read the basics of the manual to get their first install and then don't go further.

[bubbaray]

Ok, we were this close to 33 lbs, but then DS got a really bad case of gastroenteritis and is down to 30.5 lbs, so we have a little longer RF, but can you explain "reversing the latch connectors"? I will look at the manual before we turn him, but want to make sure I know what you're talking about. Thanks.


On Britax seats, you have to re-thread the LATCH connectors from RFg to FFg. The seats are shipped with the connectors ready to use in the RFg position. If you post over on the car seat forum, I think someone there has links with pics.

Its in the manual. Easy to do. Most people miss it though.

[bubbaray]

I think if this were a non-work situation, I might be more inclined to say something. However, even on the slim chance that this coworker feels like the apparent minority here (ie., don't say anything), I don't really want to risk career repercussions over someone else's car seat install, KWIM?? She might be receptive and appreciative of the help, or she might not. If not, it could be really BAD for me career-wise.

Not gonna throw myself on the sword for this one....

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. All were appreciated!

[KBecks]

On Britax seats, you have to re-thread the LATCH connectors from RFg to FFg. The seats are shipped with the connectors ready to use in the RFg position. If you post over on the car seat forum, I think someone there has links with pics.

Its in the manual. Easy to do. Most people miss it though.


AAAAA! First the tethers and now this!

[maestramommy]

OK, see that's really helpful. Its hard for me to picture an 18mo that is below those bottom slots (regardless of whether the seat is RFg or FFg) -- so that's good to know that it *IS* possible.

I was going to comment on this also. Dora is finally above the bottom slot, but not tall enough for the next slot (she is RF) and she is 2.5 To put it into perspective, when we moved her into the RA at 13 months she was barely big enough to be in it RF.

[lizajane]

i always tell. and this is what i say, "ok, so everyone calls me the car seat police 'cause i get all freaked out about this stuff... but i just HAVE to change this (x) because if you got in an accident and i didn't say anything, i would totally feel like it was all my fault that your kid got hurt because i didn't say something. so you can make fun of me later, but like i said, i am just a freak about this stuff. sorry!!"

i always get thanked. always.