I am so embarrassed for us as a society....

[kayte]

"A 78-year-old man is tossed like a rag doll by a hit-and-run driver and lies motionless on a busy city street as car after car goes by. Pedestrians gawk but do nothing. One driver stops briefly but then pulls back into traffic." (from CNN)

Video of the incident is in the news report below.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/06/05/ignored.hitrun.ap/index.html

I am utterly speechless--no one calls 911, 10 cars swerve around to pass him before a police cruiser on his way to another call see him and calls for an ambulance.

This is our society?

How?

As parents what are we doing wrong our that children are growing up in this type of society?

[mamabelle]

I was recently walking down Broadway in NYC when an elderly man was hit and thrown as he crossed the street. It was horrible. If it makes you feel better about 15 people who were right there, myself included, called 911, directed traffic around him, provided information to paramedics, called his family so they could meet him at the hospital and stayed with him and provided comfort until he was taken away in the hospital. One person who was there and had just been holding his hand and talking to him to keep him calm went in the ambulence with him at his request.

This was a terrible thing that happened but it does not always happen that way.

[brittone2]

I think it is time to focus on educating the *whole* child and developing human beings w/ a conscience, morals, awareness of human rights issues, etc. instead of being so focused on academic performance, materialism, etc.

I think parents and schools both need to take a more holistic view of what "education" really is.

What a disgrace.

[maestramommy]

I happened to read an article on this video, and in fact 4 calls were made to 911 within a minute of the accident. However, it's interesting that the police car that stopped a minute and a half later, was crusing by for another incident.

Not saying that the video isn't chilling, because it probably was (I couldnt' view it). Just that posting it doesn't give the whole story.

[kayte]

in fact 4 calls were made to 911 within a minute of the accident.

Both the story I read and the news report video specifically state that no one called 911 until after the police officer stopped.

[cvanbrunt]

This is our society?

How?

As parents what are we doing wrong our that children are growing up in this type of society?

I don't know if this gives you any "comfort"; but this is not something new. This kind of behavior is one of the most consistent findings in social psychology. It was first investigated in the 60s by Darley and Latane. An incident happened in Brooklyn where a woman was stabbed and killed in front of 38 witnesses and no one intervened. The newspapers were in an uproar and were lamenting our callous modern society and called it "urban apathy". Turns out, no one was apathetic, they just assumed that someone else had called the police. It's called diffusion of responsibility. Studies of bystander intervention show that as the number of witnesses to someone in distress increases, the likelihood that someone will help decreases. Not excusing it or suggesting that it isn't distressing, there's just nothing particularly unusual about it. It's human nature.

There are ways around it though. If someone witnessing starts giving instructions to individuals (you, call the police and you,get the plate numbers), people get their wits about them and start helping.

This phenomenon has been replicated in all kinds of populations, including seminary students who had been told to go to an auditorium across a courtyard and give an impromptu sermon based on the good samaritan parable.

[maestramommy]

Both the story I read and the news report video specifically state that no one called 911 until after the police officer stopped.
Here's the story I read:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/ap_on_re_us/ignored_hit_and_run;_ylt=AuBA3NmfMjI5wQeRpg8mms.s0 NUE

Also, regarding the Brooklyn incident in the 60's referred to by the above poster, I did hear a commentary on NPR regarding the news story. Seems like it was investigated sometime later, and it didn't quite happen the way it was initially reported. The actual incident was similar, but witnesses were not as callous as portrayed. However, I do agree that when an incident occurs, bystanders can be frozen from shock or general helplessness, and it requires just one person taking charge to delegate the tasks. When I took my CPR and first aid certification course, the point of taking charge was always part of the drill.

[kijip]

I happened to read an article on this video, and in fact 4 calls were made to 911 within a minute of the accident. However, it's interesting that the police car that stopped a minute and a half later, was crusing by for another incident.

Not saying that the video isn't chilling, because it probably was (I couldnt' view it). Just that posting it doesn't give the whole story.
Yeah, but dialing 911 from your car is a different sort of help than stopping and seeing what you can do to offer assistance. Still I agree that this kind of thing is nothing new. My mother once fell and seriously hurt her leg. Mind you, she is also a cancer patient and obviously sick. Someone actually STEPPED on her and said nothing. It took more than 5 minutes for anyone to offer her assistance. Nice.

[DrSally]

My mother once fell and seriously hurt her leg. Mind you, she is also a cancer patient and obviously sick. Someone actually STEPPED on her and said nothing. It took more than 5 minutes for anyone to offer her assistance. Nice.

Wow, that's terrible. Once during a rainstorm in the windy NE roads we saw a car drive erratically up into our yard and then into the ditch of our neighbors yard. DH went out to see if the driver was ok and it was an elderly man, shaking saying "I told them I didn't want to go out". We called the police and a tow truck and DH stayed with him to keep him calm. The neighbor who's yard he was in just opened her door and looked out and said something to DH he didn't understand. Just b/c others see it, doesn't mean they're going to do anything, as studies show. A collegue and I once saw an elderly man fall from his wheelchair on the sidewalk next to the hospital we worked at. We were the only ones who stopped to get him back in, although it was hard for us. If everyone remembers to do something/anything, the world would be a much better place.

[vludmilla]

An incident happened in Brooklyn where a woman was stabbed and killed in front of 38 witnesses and no one intervened.

I think that the woman was killed in the vestibule of her apartment building. No one visually witnessed the murder but they heard her screams and assumed that someone else was calling 911.

[new_mommy25]

. An incident happened in Brooklyn where a woman was stabbed and killed in front of 38 witnesses and no one intervened. The newspapers were in an uproar and were lamenting our callous modern society and called it "urban apathy". Turns out, no one was apathetic, they just assumed that someone else had called the police. It's called diffusion of responsibility. Studies of bystander intervention show that as the number of witnesses to someone in distress increases, the likelihood that someone will help decreases. Not excusing it or suggesting that it isn't distressing, there's just nothing particularly unusual about it. It's human nature.


I live in a state where there is a lot of domestic violence. There were recently two incidents that were pretty chilling. One was a man who beat his girlfriend to death with a shot gun on the street with all the neighbors witnessing. They showed the guy on the news and he was about 6'4 and 300 pounds. Only one neighbor stepped up, an elderly man, and he was hit so hard he had to spend the night in the hospital.

The other story that happened just a few weeks ago was about two boys who grabbed a tourists purse off the beach and ran. A man, on vacation to attend his niece's wedding, stepped in. He was beaten so bad he died that night.

I don't know what I'm trying to say other than I can see why in situations like that people don't want to step in. I would gladly call the police but try and get involved while a woman is being stabbed to death? It's hard to say.

I do think it is sad and disturbing about what happened to that elderly pedestrian. I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't stop in a situation like that.

[cvanbrunt]

I think that the woman was killed in the vestibule of her apartment building. No one visually witnessed the murder but they heard her screams and assumed that someone else was calling 911.

That's true. No one saw the attack (stabbed 17 times and then sexually assaulted) in its entirety. Individuals only saw tiny snippets of it. And it happened in Queens, not Brooklyn. My bad. Still depressing.

[kijip]

I live in a state where there is a lot of domestic violence. There were recently two incidents that were pretty chilling. One was a man who beat his girlfriend to death with a shot gun on the street with all the neighbors witnessing. They showed the guy on the news and he was about 6'4 and 300 pounds. Only one neighbor stepped up, an elderly man, and he was hit so hard he had to spend the night in the hospital.

The other story that happened just a few weeks ago was about two boys who grabbed a tourists purse off the beach and ran. A man, on vacation to attend his niece's wedding, stepped in. He was beaten so bad he died that night.

I don't know what I'm trying to say other than I can see why in situations like that people don't want to step in. I would gladly call the police but try and get involved while a woman is being stabbed to death? It's hard to say.

I do think it is sad and disturbing about what happened to that elderly pedestrian. I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't stop in a situation like that.

You raise a really good point. There is a key difference and that is fear/self protection. Interjecting yourself into a violent crime in process is something people are naturally going to resist out of fear for their own lives. But aiding an accident victim seems like such a no-brainer to me. (I am not saying people should not try and help someone being attacked but there is some need for caution in a situation where the criminal has a gun or could easily kill you.) Fear freezes people, but what the heck is scary about an injured elder? Seems that is mostly indifference and selfishness.

[brittone2]

You raise a really good point. There is a key difference and that is fear/self protection. Interjecting yourself into a violent crime in process is something people are naturally going to resist out of fear for their own lives. But aiding an accident victim seems like such a no-brainer to me. (I am not saying people should not try and help someone being attacked but there is some need for caution in a situation where the criminal has a gun or could easily kill you.) Fear freezes people, but what the heck is scary about an injured elder? Seems that is mostly indifference and selfishness.

Along these lines, when I was in high school, a woman was stabbed at a local mall (if I remember correctly it was a domestic dispute). She was bleeding and dying, and no one would help her. This was at a time when not many people carried cell phones, etc.

A fellow high school student stepped up and provided first aid, etc. for this woman. She could have been infected w/ HIV, etc. because I don't believe she had access to any gloves, etc. But she felt morally compelled to help.

This girl was very, very quiet in general. Yet that day, she was so amazingly brave, kwim? SHe literally saved this woman's life. No one else helped the bleeding woman. I forget what happened w/ mall security...if they weren't responding or just weren't around, or what, but the newspapers basically said this girl saved the woman's life. I thought it was pretty amazing (she was a teammate of mine).

eta: thinking about this story, if I remember correctly, mall security was busy chasing down the husband that stabbed the wife in the first place, and no one was providing aid to the victim other than this high school girl.

[salsah]

I think it is time to focus on educating the *whole* child and developing human beings w/ a conscience, morals, awareness of human rights issues, etc. instead of being so focused on academic performance, materialism, etc.

I think parents and schools both need to take a more holistic view of what "education" really is.

What a disgrace.

:yeahthat:

more social responsibility and less individualism.

[strollerqueen]

Yesterday I was driving to pick up my DD from school. and there was an accident, two cars in front of me. I immediately pulled over to call 9-1-1.So did the guy in front of me, the car behind me, and the car behind him. We all jumped out and ran over to the accident victims. Everyone was stopping and trying to help, and there were numerous calls to 9-1-1. So maybe we are not so hopeless.

[s7714]

My mother once fell and seriously hurt her leg. Mind you, she is also a cancer patient and obviously sick. Someone actually STEPPED on her and said nothing. It took more than 5 minutes for anyone to offer her assistance. Nice.

I witnessed something similar when I was in college, but admit that I was one of the people who would have just passed by if it wouldn't have been for my friend. We were leaving a restaurant in an area that has a large homeless population and saw a guy laying on the side of the sidewalk, almost in the street. I honestly thought it was just another homeless guy drunk and sprawled out (sadly it was a common sight in that area). It was a very busy Friday night and tons of people were walking right by him. My friend walked right up to him and as soon as I got closer and took a second look I realized it wasn't a homeless guy at all, it was a elderly man who had missed stepping onto the sidewalk and seriously hurt his leg and passed out. My roommate ran back into the restaurant to call 911. It shook my very being when I realized I would have actually walked right by that guy just because I *thought* he was a drunk homeless guy at first glance. Granted if I'd seen the guy fall I would have asked if he was o.k. without a moment's hesitation, but I still felt guilty and ashamed of myself--my friend didn't see the guy fall, he said he just thought it looked odd and was compelled to see if the guy was alright. It was a lesson learned.

[strollerqueen]

Oh, I have also stepped in more than a few times in violent situations, and every time I did, other women showed up and helped. Once was in downtown SF when one man was beating the daylights out of the other. We were all screaming at the guy to stop. In fact I videotaped that one. He stopped. He had to.

Another time I was walking my DD in the stroller, and heard a woman screaming and sobbing and pleading. She was in a car, and a guy was beating her. I ran up to him and started yelling at the guy to let her go, and yelling at her to get out of the car. In fact I yanked open her door and started pulling her out. The guy started yelling at me that it was none of my business, and I was yelling back at him that beating a woman is everyone's business. Again, several women came running up and helped. One called 9-11. Another took the girl away to her home. Another was writing down his license plate. We told him to wait until the Police came, but he took off.

And finally, a few years ago a friend of mine was riding in a car with her boyfriend in W. Hollywood. She leaned over to change the radio, and a drunk driver sped through the intersection and slammed into their car. My friend was clearly injured, but the woman (an actress) took off. Literally dozens of people chased her down, both on foot and in their cars, and forced her to stop. So I guess I have a different take on the matter, because I have always seen people stop to help.

[kijip]

Oh, I have also stepped in more than a few times in violent situations, and every time I did, other women showed up and helped.

There are ways to do it for sure. I once saw a young woman trying to get away (practically running) from this guy whose attentions were clearly unwanted. I honestly thought the guy was going to attack her or abduct her. I grabbed a guy that I pretty much had just met (it was downtown and late at night) and we approached her, pretending to be her friends. That got rid of the creepy guy and others got involved in making sure he was gone and we got her to her transportation safely.

You are right that sometimes 1 person stepping in can rally a group.

[strollerqueen]

Good for you! That was clever thinking on your part. Violence against women and children particularly is something that gets my blood boiling.

[shilo]

You raise a really good point. There is a key difference and that is fear/self protection. Interjecting yourself into a violent crime in process is something people are naturally going to resist out of fear for their own lives. But aiding an accident victim seems like such a no-brainer to me. (I am not saying people should not try and help someone being attacked but there is some need for caution in a situation where the criminal has a gun or could easily kill you.) Fear freezes people, but what the heck is scary about an injured elder? Seems that is mostly indifference and selfishness.

i don't know that it's rational, but i can tell you this...

what i'm willing to do while preggo is vastly different than what i'm willing to do while not. same goes when i have sam with me. so i do think it's a little bit situational, you know?

i do carry a basic first responder kit both in my car and on my bike and i have been the first responder on scene in on one bike accident, two motorcycle accidents (one fatal), one serious car wreck and more fallen elders than i can count on two hands given my profession. in all those situations, i provided first aid, CPR in 2 of them - one with a good outcome and one with a bad, and all four times outside of my professional life have had other bystanders offer help/get involved when asked in calling 911, etc.

but in both my pregnancies and one time with sam in tow and no one i trusted to take charge of him, i have made the conscious decision not to offer physical assistance beyond calling 911 or finding other assistance. i do in those times have to mentally force myself to continue on and leave the scene because in my gut i know it's the right decision in the situation for me and if i stayed, i would overstep my own personal safety boundaries.

anyway, i'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, just my personal limitations. not necessarily logical either, as the concepts behind universal precautions shouldn't depend on whether or not anyone is pregnant. but for me, it's just a line i'm not willing to cross. for some reason i have no problem treating patients when i'm working while pregnant, but in an emergency situation involving a stranger, which in my experience have often been in somewhat dangerous physical environments (ie. a highway shoulder or blind corner) with relatively high exposure to body fluids, i just can't go there while pregnant or with sam in tow. selfish? i guess so. but not indifferent, you know?

just my 2 cents,
lori