Need help on behavior issue (longish)

[ThreeofUs]

Hi, All--

I need help on this one - no strategy I've taken seems to work.

About a month ago, DS started saying mean things about other kids near his own age. "Competitors" is how I'd describe it in a business setting. "If I (a cousin) comes to see us, I'll kick her out of the house." or "If those kids try to touch my toys, I'll take them away and growl at them." or just "I don't like (child). I don't want him/her here."

We really work hard with DS on appropriate behavior, and to focus on sharing. We talk about it at the playground. We have kids over so he can experience being NOT the only child. Heck, I even started him on watching Barney for about 15 minutes a day, just so we could talk about it - and I *hate* TV. But the fact remains that he is the only child, and is the only child of his age in the neighborhood.

I've tried everything I know to help him talk about why he's saying this and get to the root of the issue *with* him. I've tried telling him that this behavior is unacceptable, and that it will not be listened to or tolerated, and talking with him in simple terms about why. I've even tried the practical approach: after discussing with him, I tell him that what he says is mean and could make people sad or cry, and that boys who do mean things have to stay in their rooms while others play.

The last one is the only thing that's made an impression -- but it feels to me like a threat, even as a statement of practical outcome, and I'm really uncomfortable with it.

Help! What is this behavior about? What should I do? Have I well and truly screwed up here? WWYD?

I really need a hand on this one, so TIA for any advice - especially of the BTDT type!

[1964pandora]

Hi, Ivy.

My approach is simple and it may or may not work for you. I ignore behaviors that I want less of. I mean IGNORE it when he says those things to you. He obviously gets a rise out of you. When he says something like that, I would act totally disinterested. I'd even turn my head away. I would NOT act angry or even acknowledge that he'd said it. The other half of the approach is as important. PRAISE the behavior that you do want. When he says something nice about another kid, give him positive attention. That's also the time that I would explain WHY I was so proud of him. It may not work the first time you do it. In fact, he may say more aggravating things to try to get you to pay attention. Don't fall for it. Good luck and I'm sure you'll get load of good suggestions!

Susan

ETA: I should clarify that I don't mean give your child the silent treatment or anything, especially if he might be feeling upset by something. I like Brittone2's suggestion to reflect his feelings. I might briefly acknowledge his feelings ONCE. Then I would probably ignore subsequent statements in that genre.

[bubbaray]

I'm guessing his behavior is about the pending arrival of the new baby. DD#1's behavior was "trying" briefly before the baby was born (I was on lifting restrictions and I think that upset her). She also b/c more challenging once DD#2 became more mobile and got into her things. They play nicely most of the time now, but we still have our moments.

ITA with the PP on ignoring the bad behaviors and praising the good ones. I "try" to do that, though I'll admit I'm not always successful.

Good luck!

[brittone2]

Hmmm...well, what happens once they are there? Is the talk all talk before they arrive, or does he have problems once the children are in his presence?

If things are mostly okay once the other kids are there, I'd probably opt to ignore most of the talk going on before they arrive.

I'd consider reflecting his feelings..."it is hard when someone comes and they want to play with your toys." I'd consider allowing him to choose 1-3 "special" items he doesn't want to share and allow him to put them away before guests arrive.

If he says he doesn't like a certain child, I'd ask, why? I'd say, well, if you say you don't like Mary, you must have a reason. What don't you like? I might reflect back those thoughts from him (some may very well be legit. I don't like everyone my own age either). I would try to then turn it to a positive. What do you like about Mary?

You haven't screwed up. He's just working on social/emotional skills right now :)

edited to fix typo

[niccig]

I posted on a similar topic about DS telling me that he'll hit me or kick me when I was telling him he couldn't do something. He never did hit or kick. He just said he would. The advice I got was to not worry as he wasn't acting out the behaviour but trying to express his frustration. I too am worried that he'll say this to someone else, but it only does it with me, not even DH. When it happens I tell him that he knows we do not hit/kick etc and if he is frustrated he needs to tell me. Normally, he then says, I'm angry at you mummy, and we then talk about why I said no and what we could do instead.

Your DS may be doing the same thing.

I like the suggestions you got above and would try some of those.

[ThreeofUs]

Okay. I held my breath and tried the ignoring tactic. I told him what I was doing, and that I wouldn't talk or play with him when he said such things.

We came down this morning, and he was talking about his cousin, JH. "If JH comes here, I don't want him sleeping in my room" was the start. I immediately turned and walked away from DS - not acknowledging anything, just leaving - and he went, got his cell phone (nonfunctional), and "called" JH, asking him to come over and play.

I was floored. It resulted in an immediate change of behavior.

Thank you!

[o_mom]

I think you have some excellent advice already. Just wanted to add that kids don't develop an "inner monologue" until something like age 7 or 8. This means that they can't always have those thoughts in their head without saying it. So, even though he may think something and voice it to you doesn't mean that he will act on those thoughts.

Also, I would be very careful how you phrase your responses to him. I know that we all want our kids to be sweet and pure and never have a mean thought. Reality is that EVERYONE, including 3 yos, has moments when they feel jealous, angry, selfish, etc. It seems like he is trying to voice those feelings and find ways to express them. I think you need to be careful to tell him that it is OK to have those feelings, it is what he DOES with them that matters. If you tell him it is not OK to feel that way, then he can internalize the message that there is something wrong with him because the reality is that he does feel that way.

I'm also not sure why saying that he doesn't want his cousin to sleep in his room is bad <head scratching>.

I think the low key approach is a good one, regardless. Maybe acknowledge and reflect, but then disengage quickly and don't let it become a battle.

[1964pandora]

Okay. I held my breath and tried the ignoring tactic. I told him what I was doing, and that I wouldn't talk or play with him when he said such things.

We came down this morning, and he was talking about his cousin, JH. "If JH comes here, I don't want him sleeping in my room" was the start. I immediately turned and walked away from DS - not acknowledging anything, just leaving - and he went, got his cell phone (nonfunctional), and "called" JH, asking him to come over and play.

I was floored. It resulted in an immediate change of behavior.

Thank you!

Ivy, that's so great! That's what happened to me the first time I tried it. It worked immediately. He may test you again, of course!

I think that what other people are saying about acknowledging his feelings IS important. We don't want to teach our sons not to share their feelings, right?

Your question has me seriously considering what I do, and how to do it better! I think that ignoring some statements is just a piece of the solution.

Susan

[lizajane]

Hmmm...well, what happens once they are there? Is the talk all talk before they arrive, or does he have problems once the children are in his presence?

If things are mostly okay once the other kids are there, I'd probably opt to ignore most of the talk going on before they arrive.

I'd consider reflecting his feelings..."it is hard when someone comes and they want to play with your toys." I'd consider allowing him to choose 1-3 "special" items he doesn't want to share and allow him to put them away before guests arrive.

If he says he doesn't like a certain child, I'd ask, why? I'd say, well, if you say you don't like Mary, you must have a reason. What don't you like? I might reflect back those thoughts from him (some may very well be legit. I don't like everyone my own age either). I would try to then turn it to a positive. What do you like about Mary?

You haven't screwed up. He's just working on social/emotional skills right now :)

edited to fix typo

ditto ditto ditto!!!

glad you are working through it so well already!but wanted to add, along brittone's lines, a story of ours-
schuyler said he wanted to invite "mean jack" over to play. and frankly, jack IS mean. so i certainly couldn't tell him that jack WASN'T mean. he was, in fact, speaking the truth. so instead, i told him that calling our friends mean could hurt their feeligns and they might not know how to deal with hurt feelings. and they might be more mean. but instead, if we behaved like good friends and SHOWED jack how much we want to be his friend by doing nice things with him, maybe he would want to do more nice playing with us.

so there 1) is a reason why he spoke negatively about someone and i respected it
2) we talked about why name calling doesn't work in friendships
3)we talked about how to share our positive play tactics to encourage more positive play

so if he is reacting to having other kids use HIS toys in a way he doesn't like, you can help him remember that kicking and growling at his friends will NOT get him the result he is looking for. but if he shows his friends the FUN things they can do together with the toys, then they might enjoy using the toy in his favorite way, too.

does that make any sense? (i am very tired)

[brittone2]

I think you have some excellent advice already. Just wanted to add that kids don't develop an "inner monologue" until something like age 7 or 8. This means that they can't always have those thoughts in their head without saying it. So, even though he may think something and voice it to you doesn't mean that he will act on those thoughts.

Also, I would be very careful how you phrase your responses to him. I know that we all want our kids to be sweet and pure and never have a mean thought. Reality is that EVERYONE, including 3 yos, has moments when they feel jealous, angry, selfish, etc. It seems like he is trying to voice those feelings and find ways to express them. I think you need to be careful to tell him that it is OK to have those feelings, it is what he DOES with them that matters. If you tell him it is not OK to feel that way, then he can internalize the message that there is something wrong with him because the reality is that he does feel that way.

I'm also not sure why saying that he doesn't want his cousin to sleep in his room is bad <head scratching>.

I think the low key approach is a good one, regardless. Maybe acknowledge and reflect, but then disengage quickly and don't let it become a battle.

IMO great advice. I struggle with this sometimes too (I think many of us were raised in a generation of it not being okay for kids to voice their feelings/emotions about people and situations). I remember reading the GCM site when DS was young and they used to say "happy isn't the only acceptable emotion." It was a phrase I still try to carry with me today. While those big feelings our kids show may be inconvenient, embarrassing, etc. at times, we don't want to raise kids that only feel loved/safe when "happy." We want them to be able to express a full range of emotions, and as they get older, model more appropriate ways to express those emotions. We don't want to try to *stop* those feelings though, IMO.

I'm sick, so I hope that makes some kind of sense ;)

[lisams]

IMO great advice. I struggle with this sometimes too (I think many of us were raised in a generation of it not being okay for kids to voice their feelings/emotions about people and situations). I remember reading the GCM site when DS was young and they used to say "happy isn't the only acceptable emotion." It was a phrase I still try to carry with me today. While those big feelings our kids show may be inconvenient, embarrassing, etc. at times, we don't want to raise kids that only feel loved/safe when "happy." We want them to be able to express a full range of emotions, and as they get older, model more appropriate ways to express those emotions. We don't want to try to *stop* those feelings though, IMO.

I'm sick, so I hope that makes some kind of sense ;)

I'm totally loving this thread - tons of reassurance and great advice.

[egoldber]

I would defintely echo o_mom. I think its really important to validate their feelings and help them learn constructive ways of deaing with them, not denying them. I think our instinct as parents sometimes is to say "Oh don't say that" when what our kids really need is our help in learning how to navigate their honest and natural emotions.

And kids definitely don't get that inner filter on what is OK or not to say out loud until they are much older. My 6, almost 7, year old is still struggling with that. In fact its almost worse now because she is more observant and aware of differences between herself and others and our families and others.

[ThreeofUs]

Thanks for all of your input. These are all great posts. I do try to be affirming of DS's feelings, and tried to make clear that I have been doing my best to talk these things out with him in a fairly unemotional way.

The piece that I find hard to deal with is that DS's comments come from nowhere, totally out of the blue. My toys, my bed, my house - all about territory and nothing to do with the characteristics of the other kids. This seems to be a sharing issue to me, but work on sharing has had no effect. Validating his feelings, in practice, leads to *more* of the same, not less.

And he has said these things to friends when they have been over, and tried to implement his fantasies of forcing them away from whatever he sees as his. (Of course, these behaviors are nipped in the bud, but are pretty typical of his age group.)

I'm willing to see this as a reflection of his inner feelings and to try to work with him around the issue, but such strategies just didn't seem to get through to him.

That's why I was so suprised and pleased that the modified ignoring helped. Thanks again!

[jake's daddy]

I have enjoyed reading other's responses to this issue. As presented by the original poster, it appears that the function (the why?) of your child's behavior is twofold.

Primarily, he appears to be seeking your attention. Secondarily, he is seeking tangible reinforcement (his toys). One may also view this as an attempt to escape/avoid something he finds undesirable (sharing his toys).

Some simplified recommendations:
To work with an attention-based behavior, one of the previous poster's replies is most appropriate: provide attention for desirable behaviors and withhold attention for behaviors that are undesirable. Beware of the extinction burst, which occurs when a child has grown accustomed to receiving attention for a behavior and then does not receive the attention. He may increase his behavior until he learns that he will not receive attention for it.

To work with a tangible-based behavior, provide access to the tangible object/activity contingent (dependent) on the exhibition of desirable behaviors and withhold access to the same following exhibition of undesirable behaviors.

For an escape-based behavior, I would provide escape following the exhibition of a more desirable replacement behavior (sharing his feelings and stating what he wants in an assertive, rather than aggressive manner).

There are many good books on behavior management out there. Two of the most relevant are Children the Challenge by Dreikurs (especially chapters on natural and logical consequences: http://www.amazon.com/Children-Challenge-Improving-Parent-Child-Relations-Intelligent/dp/0452266556/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214197235&sr=1-1

and SOS Parenting by Clark:
http://www.amazon.com/SOS-Parents-Third-Lynn-Clark/dp/0935111212/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214197278&sr=1-1

Hope this is helpful
Jake's Daddy

[egoldber]

I do try to be affirming of DS's feelings, and tried to make clear that I have been doing my best to talk these things out with him in a fairly unemotional way.

And that's great. :) But I think its also important to realize that this is a process. One, two, even 100 conversations may not be enough. Some kids really need to talk through these things over and over. Or they may need to say the "bad" things they are not allowed to actually do, in order to be able to actually behave in the expected way when they have to. Its similar to how some kids behave perfectly in preschool/school and then explode when they come home and are in a safe place where they can let out all the emotions and feelings they have to suppress in school.


The piece that I find hard to deal with is that DS's comments come from nowhere, totally out of the blue.

Again this is very normal. It isn't really out of the blue, its something they have obviously been thinking about but have not yet articulated.