Do I need a notarized letter of permission to travel?

[Neatfreak]

Hoping that someone knows this!

When I flew solo with M from Canada to Thailand last summer, DH and I had the letter he drafted giving me permission to take M out of Canada notarized. We were at a law office anyway having our wills done, and thought, "Why not?" (In case anyone is curious, both US and Canada customs asked to see the letter).

I'll be traveling alone with M this summer again, and I was wondering if we really needed to have the letter notarized? Is it okay if my DH merely gives me something he's signed?

TIA!

[bluestarfish18]

Not a Canadian citizen, but I would certainly have one handy just in case. I would hate for you to travel all the distance only to deal with the hassel over in Thailand.

When my mother and I went to Australia from the US, when I was 8, she didn't have a notarized letter and was shuffled to some scary INS-like office where she was questioned, and spent hours tracking down my dad back home.

I would certainly check your Passport office, maybe something online. Remmeber, it's not just the going over there part, but also getting your child back into Canada.

[Neatfreak]

I never thought of emailing the Canadian gov't to check if my letter needs to be notarized ... that's brilliant (if they respond)!

[Neatfreak]

Even better: I found a section on the gov't website, and it does not look like the letter needs to be notarized to be valid.


Q: What documents should be carried by a child travelling alone or by a parent or guardian travelling with a child?

A: Foreign officials and transportation companies are vigilant concerning documentation for children crossing international borders. Make sure you carry the proper identification for yourself and any children travelling with you, including any documents that might be required by the authorities of the country you intend to visit, and by Canadian authorities on your return to Canada with the child. Generally, persons younger than 18 years of age could be considered children. Proper identification includes, but is not limited to, a valid passport for the child when travelling outside Canada. In addition, we recommend:

* That a consent document or letter be carried to prove that the child has the permission of the absent lawful parent(s) or guardian to travel. This document should be specific to each trip and should include contact information for the parent(s) or guardian. A sample is provided for parents to use as a model to draft their own consent letter.

* This consent document could be required even if the separation or divorce documents award custody of the child to the accompanying parent, but the non-custodial parent has legal access or visiting rights to the child.

* In addition to the certified consent document from the absent parent, a copy of any separation, divorce or custody decree might be requested.

* A child of divorced or separated parents who is travelling without either parent could use either one consent document signed by both parents or two separate documents.

* If a legal guardian is accompanying the child, then a copy of the court order granting guardianship might also be requested.

* If only one parent's name appears on the birth certificate, and the child is travelling with the other parent, then we also recommend that a certified copy of the child's birth certificate be carried.

* If one parent has died, a certified copy of the death certificate could also be carried.

Remember that customs officers, as well as other authorities, inside and outside Canada are looking for missing children and may ask questions. Make sure you carry the proper identification for yourself and any children travelling with you. In addition to passports, proper identification could include, but is not limited to, birth certificates, citizenship cards, landed immigrant records and certificates of Indian status.

Full link is here: http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/before/faq/children_travel-en.asp

Actually, I followed the link, and it is recommended that the letter is "certified" by an official. I wonder if I can even find someone in Bangkok to do that?

[bubbaray]

Ideally, the letter is certified (signed before a notary, lawyer or other "sealing" official) to show that the non-travelling parent actually signed the letter and the other parent didn't forge it.

I have always taken a letter with me when travelling to the US without DH, but I have never been asked going into the US and never upon return from the US into Canada. It might be different via air, not sure.

BTW, just so you know, the Border Services agents are in a contract dispute and they are doing a "work to rule" so lineups at the Int'l airports in Canada are longer than usual. Last week, they took 2 hrs to process 1 int'l flight, when normally it takes 20 min. Nice.

[MontrealMum]

I was told that the letter should be "certified" by my FIL who is a lawyer. We have a different legal system here in Quebec from the rest of Canada, so this might not be too useful to you, but here's what that means for me: sign the document in front of a comissioner of oaths (you can find someone like that in many law offices, such as a paralegal who has gotten that certification), or a notary. I know in the US you can find a notary at many banks (so maybe you can in the rest of Canada too?), but we have a totally different system here, so that route could be more expensive and time-consuming. I haven't actually travelled to the US since DS was born, but will be getting something drawn up just in case since I've heard a few stories of people being turned back for not having the document.

[nupe]

When I (US passport) last traveled w/children alone between the US and Canada, I recall taking a letter signed by DH with me, but it was not notarized. I recall the agent looking at it. When DH (Canadian passport) traveled to Canada and back just last month (w/DS and w/o me), he had no letter, and no problems on either side. I think if I were planning to travel again internationally, I would take a letter w/me.

[mom2binsd]

I've travelled with a notorized letter...the CDN agent asked for it (crossed by car) when I handed it the US agent on our return he said - insert snarky voice here/and roll eyes like I'm inconveniencing him for crossing the border-"what is this?....when I explained...he said and I quote "this is not needed"...ok whatever...I'm sure if I didn't have it he would have asked for it. I'd try to get some sort of seal/notorization on the letter....and I've been told copies of birth certificates are NOT enough, I hate bringing the originals but was told they can refuse entry...

[Neatfreak]

Melissa, thanks for mentioning the labour dispute. I am quite relieved now that I opted for the 3 hr layover in Vancouver instead of the 1.5 hour layover - I would seriously be stressing out over missing my flight to Edmonton under that scenario!

There is someone at the Cdn Embassy in Bangkok who is a notary. I've just been having a communication issue about what I need done!

My American friends who are flying without their partners gave me strange looks when I asked how they went about notarizing their letters, btw :lol:

[MontrealMum]

You've probably already had this taken care of, but here's some additional info just in case. As an American I've always been puzzled by the Canadian process of "certifying" documents, rather than the American process of having them "notarized" (and don't throw the Quebec way into the mix).

So, here's the list of people authorized to certify copies that came in my permanent resident renewal app: chiropractor; commissioner of oaths; dentist; funeral director; justice of the peace or judge; lawyer; manager of a financial institution; medical doctor; member of a provincial legislature; member of parliament; minister of religion; municipal clerk; notary; embassy official, consulate or high commission official accredited to Canada...; official of fed. or provincial govt. dept.; pharmacist; police officer; postmaster; primary, secondary or univ. teacher; professional accountant; professional engineer; social worker; vet.

So, get out there are ask your local funeral director to sign! :)
HTH

[Neatfreak]

Oh! DH is a professional accountant! So, he can now do both my travel letters *and* my passport applications!

I've been talking to my Cdn friends who are still here in Thailand, and they have never had anything notarized either. I'm comfortable flying back to Canada with an unnotarized letter, and when DH joins us later in July we'll have something certified if he goes back to Bangkok separately from us.

[bubbaray]

Oh! DH is a professional accountant! So, he can now do both my travel letters *and* my passport applications!

I've been talking to my Cdn friends who are still here in Thailand, and they have never had anything notarized either. I'm comfortable flying back to Canada with an unnotarized letter, and when DH joins us later in July we'll have something certified if he goes back to Bangkok separately from us.


Nope, he can't witness his own signature for the travel letter (he signs that). He can, however, sign your passport application and your DDs, as long as YOU are her applicant, not him.

[bubbaray]

You've probably already had this taken care of, but here's some additional info just in case. As an American I've always been puzzled by the Canadian process of "certifying" documents, rather than the American process of having them "notarized" (and don't throw the Quebec way into the mix).

So, here's the list of people authorized to certify copies that came in my permanent resident renewal app: chiropractor; commissioner of oaths; dentist; funeral director; justice of the peace or judge; lawyer; manager of a financial institution; medical doctor; member of a provincial legislature; member of parliament; minister of religion; municipal clerk; notary; embassy official, consulate or high commission official accredited to Canada...; official of fed. or provincial govt. dept.; pharmacist; police officer; postmaster; primary, secondary or univ. teacher; professional accountant; professional engineer; social worker; vet.

So, get out there are ask your local funeral director to sign! :)
HTH


Well, there isn't really a difference between US and Canadian notarized documents. However, some government agencies in Canada do not require a notary and allow other "professionals" (the list changes via agency) to witness a signature. The reason for that is both historical and geographical -- in the early days, there simply weren't enough lawyers or notaries throughout the whole country. That is, in some areas, still the case. Rather than have people living in the north travel to a major city to have something notarized, gov't allows certain forms to be signed in front of various officials.

However, if you need to send a document out of the country (or travel to a different country with it), you'll still need it notarized. Which means a trip to a lawyers or notary's office for signing and sealing the document. I have no idea how it works in Quebec....

[MontrealMum]

I have no idea how it works in Quebec....
Of course Quebec is different, like in everything else... :)

This stems from the early days of New France when attorneys (who were seen as corrupt in France) were forbidden to practice in the colony by the King. Notaries did most of the things that those of us used to common law associate with lawyers (mostly drawing up contracts - it wasn't New England with a large population) as well as sitting as judges. Other judges (when they weren't temporarily on loan from the mother country) were prominent local businessmen. No law schools, all notarial training was either done in France, or through apprenticeship.

After Conquest, English (and American) lawyers emigrated but had trouble practicing in the colony since it was still a civil, not common law system; also there was the language problem. Little by little common law practices crept into usage, and there was a dual system for awhile, then you had the problem of Upper Canada and massive Loyalist immigration. I'm sure you know most of the rest from school, but what it leave us in Quebec with is notaries with - what someone like me sees since even though I am a legal historian, I didn't grow up in this system - as "extended" powers, doing much of the work that lawyers do in other provinces/states. If you want to practice in Quebec AND elsewhere in NA, it's a 4 year program, not 3 like elsewhere because of this - fun.

ETA: Canada's geography and far-flung communities had other people doing legal work from the beginning. Many of the documents that I use in my work are drawn up by priests, not notaries, especially if the community was far from an urban area, or it was wintertime. Let me tell you, priests have much better writing!

[bubbaray]

Of course Quebec is different, like in everything else... :)

This stems from the early days of New France when attorneys (who were seen as corrupt in France) were forbidden to practice in the colony by the King. Notaries did most of the things that those of us used to common law associate with lawyers (mostly drawing up contracts - it wasn't New England with a large population) as well as sitting as judges. Other judges (when they weren't temporarily on loan from the mother country) were prominent local businessmen. No law schools, all notarial training was either done in France, or through apprenticeship.

After Conquest, English (and American) lawyers emigrated but had trouble practicing in the colony since it was still a civil, not common law system; also there was the language problem. Little by little common law practices crept into usage, and there was a dual system for awhile, then you had the problem of Upper Canada and massive Loyalist immigration. I'm sure you know most of the rest from school, but what it leave us in Quebec with is notaries with - what someone like me sees since even though I am a legal historian, I didn't grow up in this system - as "extended" powers, doing much of the work that lawyers do in other provinces/states. If you want to practice in Quebec AND elsewhere in NA, it's a 4 year program, not 3 like elsewhere because of this - fun.

ETA: Canada's geography and far-flung communities had other people doing legal work from the beginning. Many of the documents that I use in my work are drawn up by priests, not notaries, especially if the community was far from an urban area, or it was wintertime. Let me tell you, priests have much better writing!


Its somewhat similar in BC -- technically, I am a "barrister and solicitor". Because when the colony was first established, there weren't enough barristers to go around, so the imported solicitors were allowed to be barristers too (you probably know that in England, there is a huge divide between barristers & solicitors and until recently, barristers weren't permitted to have contact with clients, only with solicitors who met with the clients).

So, technically, I'm a B&S. Or, just skip the "&". I'm just BS.... LOL.

[Neatfreak]

I never thought this thread would get so educational - hee!

[MontrealMum]

I am now thinking of the John Cleese character in A Fish Called Wanda - ha ha ha...

[Neatfreak]

Update: M and I arrived back in Thailand yesterday just short of midnight. Exactly zero people asked if I had permission to take her out of the country on departing flight, which was somewhat disappointing, because I was all ready with my notarized travel letter!

On the way into Canada, my customs agent at YVR merely asked where her dad was and if I had a letter with me. Oh well. Maybe next summer things will be more exciting LOL!

[MontrealMum]

Glad there were no red-tape hangups, and hope you both had a great trip :)