Want to start to Ferberize next week

[TraciG]

Jacob will be over 5 1/2 month's by then, I don't want to wait until 6 month's, I've had it putting him to sleep in the stroller 3 times a day & in the middle of the night ! He sleep's in his car seat for nap's & at night, after he fall's asleep in it, in the snap & go we carry him in the car seat to the bedroom, weird situation but this is how we've been doing it. Before the car seat he slept on me nursing !

The problem is he still wake's up twice a night to eat, he's basically on formula now, he does breast feed before the bottle but doesn't get much from me unfortunately these day's.

I know Ferber say's to wait until 6 month's , I know he think's they're developmentally ready them, whatever that means but when are they supposed to stop eating at night ?? My DD stopped at 5 1/2 month's when we Ferberized her but I can't see him stopping for some reason.

My life will be easier / better when DS can fall asleep on his own !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WatchingThemGrow]

I was SO right there in your position with the nursing/supplementing. Painful, I know in many ways. The sleep thing sounds like it makes things not a lot of fun. We Ferberized DD at 5.5 mos also. Best thing we ever did.

FWIW, I pumped (a lot), but especially at the end of the day and let DH feed them both formula before bed, hoping that would stick with them longer over night. It seemed to work. Somehow, with DS, he took that bottle at a reasonable time and never woke up until I did in the morning!

If he's only sleeping in the carseat, do you think he's experiencing reflux? The flat position could be causing him painful urps. Reflux here was helped with Zantac. Less urping meant a happier resting baby.

[maestramommy]

Well, I don't know about formula fed babies, but bf babies will sometimes not sleep through the night for several months. I waited on both of my babies until about 10.5 months before I decided I'd had enough. By then they really were ready and it was a relatively quick and painless process. More crying from Dora, but she got the message. Also started eating solids finally. With Arwyn it took only once with me going in and telling her it was time to sleep. Never woke again. She actually slept through the night the night before, which was what decided me.

Every baby is a little different, so those age guideline may or may not apply to your child. If for some reason you don't think your ds is ready, I'd wait. It could save you a long painful process.

Also, I remember that even though a lot of the time Arwyn woke only once a night, during growth spurts (3, 6, 9 months) she woul suddenly start waking 2-3 times a night. Rather painful, but it did go away.

ETA: Sorry I reread your post, and now I'm confused. Do you want to Ferberize to get him to fall asleep by himself? Or to sleep through the night? Two very different things.

[JBaxter]

My oldest 2 got up once a night till they were over a year old. Im not a big one for letting babies cry.
Hes been through a lot with your low supply and now switching him to formula I would wait for at least another month. He may still be trying to catch up on what his body thinks he should weigh. Did you suspect reflux also?

[sidmand]

DS was a big baby and I was told he *should* be able to sleep through the night without eating at maybe six months. The thing was, he was hungry! I literally could hear his stomach growling in the middle of the night. He was a big baby and he was growing, so he was hungry (off the charts for height although only about 50th percentile for weight). He would wake up every few hours to eat. And it was definitely to eat. He wouldn't play or anything, just eat, change his diaper, and go back to sleep. He did not sleep through the night until he was nine months old. And he fell asleep fine on his own, we never needed to do anything else...but we needed to wait until he actually wasn't hungry and we could figure out how to keep him dry overnight (Huggies overnites...another story) before he went any stretch for sleeping.

[geochick]

My ds was a horrible sleeper early on. I won't go into the details, but it was the worst 7 months of my life! He was up every 45 minutes to nurse - no joke! Did he need the food? No way, his weight was in the 95th percentile. His ped said he could easily make it through the night without nursing. He wanted the comfort. I felt awful Ferberizing since he wanted the comfort, but I was also a walking zombie who needed some sleep. I tried other more gentle methods first, they didn't work at all. It took a whopping 2 nights of the Ferber method to train him to self soothe. He was sleeping through the night after that. And guess what? Both he and I were SOOOO well rested after that. We had a better bond. We weren't exhausted all the time. Neither of us was cranky at all. I made more opportunities to cuddle during the day since it was clear he was a needy cuddler. He's now 4 and he still needs cuddles and mommy reassurance, I still make time for that, but not at night. He's now a GREAT sleeper! Some people don't agree with Ferber, but in my experience, it literally saved my life and gave me a happy, well-rested infant. It's not for everyone, but you know when you're at the breaking point...when it's time to sleep train. Good luck with that decision. Read the book carefully and stick with it once you're there.

[mommyp]

I just went through the same issue as well. At 5.5 months DD was still getting up once or twice a night to BF and seemed really hungry. I got Ferber's book from the library, read it cover to cover and we decided to hold off a little and she ended up getting herself off the night feedings without our help...the middle of the night wake up just started getting further and further away from bedtime. I highly recommend reading the whole book before starting, he has a separate section on eliminating night feedings slowly over several nights (# of nights depends on how much they are eating and how long the stretch is between feedings). Then you can decide if you want to do that first, then work on the self soothing to sleep thing, or do both at once (much harder IMO). I know how hard it is and how important sleep is to the whole family, so good luck!

ETA: Update - If you get the book make sure you read the NEW edition, it was revised and expanded in 2006 and seems to be much updated since the original.

[lisams]

I am not a fan of CIO, but I would highly suggest you read (or reread if it's been a few years) his book. I know a lot of people who say they "Ferberized" but when they explain what they did it was so not what he had intended the method to be.

Read the book, make a plan and see how it goes. Good luck.

[traciann]

My dd slept in the swing for 5 months, so I feel your pain. Once we got to the point where dd was starting to sit up in the swing, we used the ferber method and moved dd over to her crib. She was breastfeeding, and I did not eliminate the middle of the night feeding at that time. She started going to sleep on her own by the third day. I didn't eliminate the middle of the night feeding until I was sure that it was a habit, and not a need. It was at least a month or so later that we eliminated that and she was fully sleeping through the night.

[o_mom]

If he's only sleeping in the carseat, do you think he's experiencing reflux? The flat position could be causing him painful urps. Reflux here was helped with Zantac. Less urping meant a happier resting baby.

Traci,

He has had so many symptoms of reflux. It is hard for a baby to self-soothe if he is in pain. Have you tried medication?

Falling asleep and sleeping through the night are two different skills. DS2 and DS3 were still waking at least once until 14 months even though they were falling asleep on their own since 9-10 months. Some babies need to eat at night much longer than others. There is no magical weight or age where they "should" be able to go 12-14 hrs without food.

[kijip]

now I'm confused. Do you want to Ferberize to get him to fall asleep by himself? Or to sleep through the night? Two very different things.

:yeahthat:

Ferber has himself personally indicated that his method is primarily for older children with serious sleep issues. A 5 month old or a 6 month old that does not sleep through the night is not an older child with serious sleep issues. His recent edition book is much less rigid than the popular notion of his methods.

I would work on getting his reflux type symptoms resolved with a medical doctor before I tried any sort of CIO or sleep training method.

[TraciG]

It's ok if he wake's still at night for feeding's BUT I would like for him to be able to go back to sleep, I really am tired of having to push the stroller in the middle of the night 2 time's & sometime's for a while ! The last few night's he has fallen back to sleep on his own in the seat, it's the second time that for some reason he trouble with. Also feel bad that I have to tel my DD to be quiet when I have to get him to sleep in the day. I live in a small apt and get him to sleep close to the living room, only place to push the stroller.

He sleep's in the carseat because my DH just tried it one day since he wasn't comfy sleeping with me anymore and it worked so we just stuck with it. The reason he never slept in the pack N play is because we'd both fall asleep nursing in my bed for hour's then when he'd wake up it was time to eat again. The EXACT same thing happened with my DD, I just could never stay awake . Also it was easier at the time.

How come so many of you think he has reflux symptoms ? He does spit up but it doesn't seem to bother him , DD also spit up a lot.

I am going to order the new Ferber book.

Thank you all SO MUCH for your replie's !

[LBW]

Tracy,

Please talk to your doc about getting him on reflux meds! My youngest is now 8 months old. Until about 3 weeks ago, he barely ever napped during the day, and the only way to get him to nap was to push him in the stroller, wear him, or rock him. Nighttime was also really difficult. He woke often, screamed a lot, and needed to be held, rocked, and soothed to sleep. Sound familiar?? These are all classic signs of reflux.

Since he's been on prevacid, he now naps for 1 to 3 hour stretches during the day. On his back. In his crib. It's heaven. He still wakes a few times at night, but he goes back to sleep fairly easily, and there's no more screaming.

The meds can only help. If you don't see an improvement within 2 to 3 weeks, you can stop giving them to him.

[TraciG]

I'll ask the doc at his 6 month check up about reflux but doesn't every baby need to be rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller ? I really think he just doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own. Who know's maybe i'm wrong. He will sleep long for naps, yesterday he slept 3 hour's but there are also time's he'll wake up after only a half hour & be tired still .

[brittone2]

I'll ask the doc at his 6 month check up about reflux but doesn't every baby need to be rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller ? I really think he just doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own. Who know's maybe i'm wrong. He will sleep long for naps, yesterday he slept 3 hour's but there are also time's he'll wake up after only a half hour & be tired still .

It seems like he sleeps better/prefers to be upright (sleeps better in the carseat, swing, stroller, held upright?). That is another classic symptom of reflux.

[sidmand]

I'll ask the doc at his 6 month check up about reflux but doesn't every baby need to be rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller ? I really think he just doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own. Who know's maybe i'm wrong. He will sleep long for naps, yesterday he slept 3 hour's but there are also time's he'll wake up after only a half hour & be tired still .

No. Neither DS or DD ever needed to be rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller. I think a lot of babies don't need that. A lot do, but some of them have reflux (some don't admittedly).

FWIW, DD is almost four months old and she falls asleep on her own. During the day it often is in the swing, but at night it's not.

[beansprout13]

Without some type of cry it out method, how else do kids learn to fall asleep on their own?

DS2 is only 9 weeks (and I wouldn't do any kind of cry it out now), but in the future how else can he learn to fall asleep? Right now it takes me forever to get him to sleep (naps and at night). At some point, I am going to go back to work and I can't ask a daycare provider to do some of the crazy things I do to get DS2 to sleep...

[KrisM]

I'll ask the doc at his 6 month check up about reflux but doesn't every baby need to be rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller ? I really think he just doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own. Who know's maybe i'm wrong. He will sleep long for naps, yesterday he slept 3 hour's but there are also time's he'll wake up after only a half hour & be tired still .

I don't know much about reflux. But, neither of my older kids were rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller. As newborns, they were often held until they were asleep, but by a couple months, they'd fall asleep on their own in the cradle/crib.

[KrisM]

Without some type of cry it out method, how else do kids learn to fall asleep on their own?

DS2 is only 9 weeks (and I wouldn't do any kind of cry it out now), but in the future how else can he learn to fall asleep? Right now it takes me forever to get him to sleep (naps and at night). At some point, I am going to go back to work and I can't ask a daycare provider to do some of the crazy things I do to get DS2 to sleep...

DD was better at it than DS, but they just learn after a while. A routine helps - the same things happen and then they sleep. I don't really know. I have never used the Ferber method or a true CIO with a young baby. I did do a mild version at a year or so, but for other reasons than getting them to sleep alone.

[mommyp]

I'll ask the doc at his 6 month check up about reflux but doesn't every baby need to be rocked to sleep or pushed in a stroller ? I really think he just doesn't know how to fall asleep on his own. Who know's maybe i'm wrong. He will sleep long for naps, yesterday he slept 3 hour's but there are also time's he'll wake up after only a half hour & be tired still .

No, not every baby. After the first couple months (when I think anything goes!), when DD was getting up twice a night to feed, she was up only 10-15 min to eat and then right back to sleep in the crib. (Naps and bedtime...not quite the same. In that case, having a routine is really working for us.)

[brittone2]

Without some type of cry it out method, how else do kids learn to fall asleep on their own?


I can't speak to daycare and your specific scenario, but DS nursed to sleep until he was 2-2.5. He coslept with us until a few weeks after his 3rd bday (we were fine with this). He moved to his own bed with no major tears or upset. He sleeps beautifully now at age 4 in his own bed and has been since he was 3. I only bring it up because many people think cosleeping/nursing to sleep, etc. are destined to create poor sleep patterns. I've read BTDT moms that assured it wouldn't and said that they do learn in their own time, and IME, that was the case. Granted, we weren't having to deal w/ other people getting him to sleep. I used the sling when DS and DD were under a year to get them tired out when they didn't particularly want to nap.

eta: with a very young infant, they just don't usually have the neurological maturity to self-soothe, particularly those under 6 months of age. IMO, you can't make them neurologically ready before they are there on their own.

[pastrygirl]

Without some type of cry it out method, how else do kids learn to fall asleep on their own?Wow, is this a serious question? Not everyone leaves their babies to cry themselves to sleep. It shouldn't be a "given" that that's what moms are supposed to do.

I think I was lucky. My son stopped waking at night at 11 months old. I only needed to rock/nurse him to sleep until he was 13 months old, and then he started falling asleep on his own. In hindsight, it was a very short span of time.

[StantonHyde]

I have been through the sleep spectrum--I truly feel your pain. I think 5.5 mos is too early to sleep through the night. I would give the reflux thing a shot--can't hurt. Also--DD ended up being a tummy sleeper. Will he sleep on his tummy?

DS woke every hour to nurse and it took 40 mins to nurse/change him and another 20 to get him back to sleep!!!!! Talk about zombie. By about 6 months he was DOWN to getting up 2-3 times a night to feed. And it was still hard to get him to sleep! If I wanted him to take a long nap, I would lay down an nurse him to sleep and sleep myself. When he woke up an hour later, I just rolled over and let him have the other breast. I am a terrible cosleeper--i just cannot get any real sleep with a baby next to me.

So at 15 mos when he was still getting up 2x a night, I had had it. I read Ferbers book cover to cover and realized I had to stop giving him so much milk because that is what was keeping him up. (I stopped bfing at 13-14 mos) So I just decreased the bottles by half an ounce each night and within 1 week he was sleeping through the night--no CIO. AND he then would take a 3 hour nap!!! OMG-my life was revolutionized!!

With DD, she loved to sleep in the bouncy/swing. She slept there till she was 6 mos. When the swing motor started dying, I decided to put her in the crib. She cried for 2 hours the first night. I just went in every 15 minutes and soothed her. After that, she would fuss a little bit (max 15 minutes) and then go to sleep--at night and nap. (She turned out to be a tummy sleeper and she just needed to feel the sheet on the side of her face to sleep--so she snuggled into the side of the swing) She was still getting up 2x a night to nurse. So at 8 mos, I started decreasing the amount of time I nursed (like a minute every other day) and within a week she was sleeping through the night.

So, all in all, I did 2 hours of CIO total with both of my kids. Thank God for Ferber!!!!

[Piglet]

Wow, is this a serious question? Not everyone leaves their babies to cry themselves to sleep. It shouldn't be a "given" that that's what moms are supposed to do.

I think I was lucky. My son stopped waking at night at 11 months old. I only needed to rock/nurse him to sleep until he was 13 months old, and then he started falling asleep on his own. In hindsight, it was a very short span of time.

Why wouldn't it be a serious question? My 3 kids, in one way or another, have had to do some sort of sleep training and yes, there was some sort of crying involved at some time or another. I tried lots of different techniques and the one that consistently worked was some form of CIO (DS1 was Baby Whisperer, DS2 was Weissbluth and DD was Ferber). For DS1 he was the easy one and slept through early, but only AFTER we discovered that he was a tummy sleeper and liked to be left alone. All the rocking in the world made him angry and co-sleeping wasn't a good solution for a tummy sleeper (in my opinion). We had to find something that worked and once we found that thing, we were all happy. Neither DS2 or DD slept through the night until much later (or sometime still don't), but they were all able to fall asleep on their own by 6 months. Maybe we could have done things differently, but all kids at sometime or other have to learn to self-soothe. That time is different for all kids and all parents, but often that time comes with sleep training and CIO is a legitimate way to do it.

[pastrygirl]

Why wouldn't it be a serious question?The question was don't all babies have to cry in order to learn how to fall sleep on their own. It was the implication that it must be done that way, that there's no possible other way. I understand that some people feel it has to be done (and maybe it does in some cases; I was able to avoid it with my son). It's just the "must" implication that struck me. It's sad to think that someone might go into it assuming that CIO is the way to go, without exploring alternatives first. (But I understand that sometimes alternatives don't work!)

[beansprout13]

The question was don't all babies have to cry in order to learn how to fall sleep on their own. It was the implication that it must be done that way, that there's no possible other way.

As the poster of that question, I want to clarify that I wasn't trying to imply that it must be done that way. I was asking a serious question - I personally don't know of any other successful way to teach a baby how to fall asleep on his/her own. That is not saying that there are no other ways, I just don't know of them. I have to return to work when DS2 is about 5 months old and in order for him to go to daycare, he has to be better at putting himself to sleep. I don't know of any other way to do this than some sort of CIO method. He doesn't nurse/feed himself to sleep right now so there is no association to break there. He just needs to be rocked and swayed and swung for a very long time before he will fall asleep - something that a daycare provider cannot do. So I wasn't trying imply that CIO is the only method - I'm sure there are other things that have worked for other people (and I would love to hear) - I just don't know of anything else to do. (BTW, I have the No Cry Sleep Solution book and it just didn't work for DS1 and unfortunately, I'm not going to have the luxury of a lot of time for DS2.)

[WatchingThemGrow]

Per some book or somebody's suggestion..Weissbluth? Ped? we started from the beginning (or nearly) doing a little quick and quiet rocking routine where we'd put the drowsy baby into the crib awake. We NEVER rocked or nursed or strolled them to sleep because we didn't want to create that habit. We didn't use the swing or carseat either. Things we credit with helping our babies sleep well are blackout shades, routine, a sleepsack, and consistency of schedule. DS didn't even need to CIO like DD did.

I was one of the first ones in the thread to suggest reflux, but I don't think I was clear. DD had "silent" reflux as diagnosed by a feeding specialist and our ped. She would quietly urp or swallow without spitting up. It was barely noticeable, but treatment made a huge difference in her comfort level.

Do you ever see him do a little gulp for no apparent reason? I saw that other thread from a while back where you were looking into Gentlease or other formulas. What did you end up settling on? When I asked about those, our ped suggested trying Zantac first for a few weeks before changing the formula. Turns out it worked!

[TraciG]

He's still on Enfamil, he still spit's up but it's not as bad unless we're just used to it .

[brittone2]

He's still on Enfamil, he still spit's up but it's not as bad unless we're just used to it .

It doesn't need to be much, or even visible, to be reflux.

[bubbaray]

My daycare provider does NOT do CIO in any way shape or form. Both girls started there around 12m and have always napped wonderfully there. At home, not so much.

I wouldn't worry too much about how children sleep at daycare. IME, they will follow the lead of the other children.

I don't think children need to CIO to learn to sleep. JMHO. Having said that, we've done modified CIO with both girls, but not until they were closer to a year. Personally, I would never do CIO with a 6m baby that was BFg. We didn't do CIO until the girls were night weaned, around 10 or so months.

[pastrygirl]

As the poster of that question, I want to clarify that I wasn't trying to imply that it must be done that way. I was asking a serious question - I personally don't know of any other successful way to teach a baby how to fall asleep on his/her own. That is not saying that there are no other ways, I just don't know of them.I'm sorry... I misunderstood. :o

I has the NCSS book, too... and was able to incorporate very few of the tips. It was a very long process that didn't "work" until Toby was 13 months old. Maybe if I'd been more dedicated, I would've been successful earlier, but I was OK with the pace since I wasn't under the pressure of a deadline. A deadline definitely would've changed things.

White noise was a must for us -- I had to run it all the time in his room, and even in the car if I wanted him to nap. I only just stopped using it a couple of months ago. A bedtime routine was a must, too. I bathed him every night even though he didn't need it. It just helped with the routine. I sang the same songs when it was almost bedtime, and while I rocked him. Everything was the same, same, same, night after night. I had to rock him for an hour until around 6 months, then 45 minutes, then 30 minutes. Eventually it was 15 minutes, and then it was 0 minutes at the magic 13-month mark.

Naptime was always harder and didn't quite work until recently. I wish I could've tried blackout shades, but my husband didn't want to.

I had the time and patience (barely) to avoid CIO this time around. I don't know what will happen with future babies. I might not be able to dedicate an hour or more of rocking each night. I'd prefer not to do CIO but I don't fault anyone who does resort to that, hopefully after non-crying methods were tried first.