Going absolutely CRAZY with this not sleeping

[TraciG]

I have had it, I am at the point that I don't care if Jacob is to young to be Ferberized, it was fine at this age for my DD. I can not take my life revolving around his sleep or non-sleep ! It is ruling everything & making me very unhappy !

It is getting worse , he scream's & grab's his face from being so tired,I'm alway's home putting him to sleep on time & still if he does fall asleep it's not even long enough most of the time then he's still tired & crazed !

So this weekend my DH had had it too, he put him in the pack N play & let him cry, he did fall asleep for one hour, not long enough but we were happy. Second nap, he screamed for one hour so I took him out. I didn't get a chance to get the Ferber book, I should have ordered it online last week, stupid , at this point I can't even wait for it .

I have been up half the night & am shaking, I eventually got him to sleep around 4 am in the swing, to bad I couldn't fall back to sleep & my DD was up at 6 !

Maybe this should have been in Bitching


Can believe it, as I was typing this & hearing him cry it just got quiet & he's asleep, let's hope it's for a long enough time !

[ChunkyNicksChunkyMom]

Okay, IMHO letting a baby that young cry for one hour is just plain wrong. ( and I am perfectly willing to take all flaming for saying this).

[bubbaray]

Okay, IMHO letting a baby that young cry for one hour is just plain wrong. ( and I am perfectly willing to take all flaming for saying this).


:yeahthat:

The thought just makes me sad.

Go ahead, flame me.

[hillview]

How old is he?
/hillary

[schums]

Just under 6 months, IIRC.

[JBaxter]

Okay, IMHO letting a baby that young cry for one hour is just plain wrong. ( and I am perfectly willing to take all flaming for saying this).


The good and the BAD is what we sign up for as mothers ( and fathers) when we CHOOSE to become parents. I could NEVER let a little one cry like that . Put him in the car take a drive, swing, bounce.... You dont know whats up with them did his head hurt, tummy? Letting him lay and scream himself to exhaustion and sleep is very wrong. Did yout try tylonel?

[schums]

Have you asked the ped about reflux yet? Really, Traci, EVERYONE has suggested this for weeks. If he has it, you can get meds to make it better, and he WILL sleep. The worst the ped can say is that he doesn't have it, in which case, you'll have to keep working on finding a solution. But just complaining about the situation without trying to find a REASONABLE solution is insane!!

[SnuggleBuggles]

Will he not fall asleep eating? Are you just trying to break habits and make him fall asleep without certain sleep "crutches" or do they just not work? I was out driving at 3am the other night b/c I knew it would get ds to sleep and I don't care if it was the "wrong" thing to do. Sleep is sleep. :)

What exactly is the problem? What exactly is your goal? Sleeping on his own w/ or w/o having to do anything? Are you trying to successfully just lay him down and walk away? If we knew what the full problem was maybe some would have some btdt advice.

Beth

[brittone2]

I couldn't do CIO, especially w/ a child so young.

It is frustrating when they won't nap or sleep. But IMO, it passes. Having much in the way of expectations for sleep really just made me *more* frustrated. With DS, I was like, ummm, aren't babies supposed to nap? I drove myself nuts because every time I thought we were figuring things out, his schedule and needs would change. I just learned to let go, and in retrospect, most of those difficult periods were just phases and they passed. When things got bad, I tended to do best by just popping baby in sling/Ergo, and doing my normal stuff (vacuuming, dishes, cooking, etc.). Yes, baby might still cry, but at least it was with the comfort of a parent in contact with them.

Some kids self soothe well, some don't. You can't make them more neurologically mature than they are.

Are you getting enough help from your DH? It seems like you are overwhelmed and could maybe use some support. Sleep stuff is frustrating, but is part of parenting.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Like Beth just said, expectations make a big difference on our satisfaction. With ds1 I read so much and expected him to do certain things at certain times. With ds2 I have just let him call the shots. I go with his cues and hope for the best. Yeah, he still doesn't reliably sleep through the night at 8m or always go down easily but I just shrug and roll with it. I'd drive myself crazy trying to do anything more (I admit I have half heartedly tried :)).

Beth

[fortato]

He's just an infant. You need to give the poor baby a break.

He'll sleep when he's ready...

[MelissaTC]

I am not trying to start anything here, really I am not. I just don't understand why you ask for advice but don't try any of the suggestions but then continue to post about the same issues. It could be that your baby has reflux. Or some other underlying issue. Or it could be that he is just not able to soothe himself yet so you need to help him do it. That is what you signed up for when you had him.

[ZeeBaby]

Can you ask for help from DH or family? I find that when I start to get frustrated with DD, it really makes a difference that I can give her to DH when he gets home from work or I can call my mother over to spend some time with her. I know we all feel like our children are demons bent on keeping us from sleeping sometimes, but it is not their fault and sometimes we need to take a step back to remember that.

[bubbaray]

I am not trying to start anything here, really I am not. I just don't understand why you ask for advice but don't try any of the suggestions but then continue to post about the same issues. It could be that your baby has reflux. Or some other underlying issue. Or it could be that he is just not able to soothe himself yet so you need to help him do it. That is what you signed up for when you had him.


Thank you. You posted this much better/nicer than I could have.

[Ceepa]

Lack of sleep can really bring out the beast in all of us. As pp said, can you and DH pass off DS to each other or someone else when you start to feel overwhelmed/angry? Having no other choice but to see our way through months upon months of colic, DH and I learned to just support each other through the crying and sleeplessness (ours and baby's) as best as we could and accept that we _all_ would get through it eventually.

[Jenn98]

I have had it, I am at the point that I don't care if Jacob is to young to be Ferberized, it was fine at this age for my DD. I can not take my life revolving around his sleep or non-sleep ! It is ruling everything & making me very unhappy !


But it's suposed to rule your life right now. That's your job as his mommy.

You sound really stressed out, esp when you say you don't care if your infant is too young to do XYZ. Have you thought about getting a sitter so you can nap, or sit at a bookstore/cafe by yourself for an hour or so?

And as a mom of two I can tell you that what is right for one will most likely not be right for the next. It's a cruel trick of Mother Nature, but jsut because your DD was okay with whatever does not mean your son must follow the same pattern. He is his own person with his own needs and his own fears and dreams and all that good stuff.

I wish you the best and I hope you begin to try some of the suggestions from all the fabulous mommies on this board. They really only have your best interests at heart.

[JMS]

This all will pass in its own good time. He's crying and for whatever the reason, at this age it means he needs his Mama. You're going to be awake regardless. Whether it's to comfort him or to listen to him scream. I wholeheartedly agree with PPs: you need support from DH, family, or anyone when you reach that breaking point. You need to be able to hand the baby off to other loving hands so you can regain your calm and your senses.
I swear so many of us have gone through this. And we remember how hard it was but it's now just a distant memory. You'll feel better reflecting upon it if you give him your love and help instead of abandoning him (bring on the flames :) ).

Good Luck AND TALK TO YOUR DR ABOUT POSSIBLE REFLUX!

[daniele_ut]

My dd is 6 months old today and she's a crappy sleeper. I empathize with the sleep deprivation, believe me. I have a very active almost 4 year old, a husband who works long hours, my own demanding full time job and I have been averaging 4-6 hours of sleep a night for the past 6 months. Am I happy about it? Not particularly. Am I willing to put up with it? Absolutely, because THIS is what I signed on for when I had kids - the good AND the bad. In the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty small inconvenience in my life, considering the joy dd brings into our home.

I've been following your posts about Jacob's sleep over the past few weeks and everyone here has kindly offered loads of advice, which you seem to have completely ignored. It makes me sad to read that you don't care if Jacob isn't ready to sleep train or not. You can't force a baby to be farther along developmentally than he is. As pps have suggested, some babies self soothe well, others don't. Expecting him to fall asleep on his own and stay asleep all night long because *you* want him to is totally unrealistic, IMO.

[brittone2]

I already responded, but here's my suggestion:

For the next few days, do whatever it takes to get him some decent sleep. IMO, I'd do whatever...rock and nurse him, put him in the bouncy seat or swing, sling him, cosleep, whatever gets you some SLEEP. Both of you.

Before making any additional decisions, try whatever you can to just get some sleep. You'll be able to better evaluate your options. I'd also have a discussion about potential reflux w/ your doctor. Many people have indicated that what you've described in recent weeks could be consistent w/ reflux.

Even if you choose to do CIO after being in a better state of mind, I think you should absolutely rule out reflux first. There's no way you can expect him to get himself to go to sleep/stay asleep if he's in pain! You could end up in a vicious cycle of being frustrated because CIO isn't working (if you opt to go that route) and wondering why. And then what do you do? Let him cry even more if it isn't working???

Step back, and get some rest. I know you have an older DD. Get DH to help or another family member. Give her a new toy or two to play with quietly while you are getting the baby down for some sleep. But do whatever it takes for the next few days to get some sleep so you can make a more conscious, educated decision rather than a frustrated, angry, upset decision to continue w/ the CIO when he is likely either having reflux issues or is just too young to self soothe. And please, please, please talk w/ your doctor about what is going on and look into reflux more extensively.

[CAM7]

Severe sleep deprivation. BTDT.

With our 2.5 year old son we had a difficult first year... he started to sleep a little better around 18 months. He's a lot better now and I can say that most nights we get adequate sleep.

Only those that have been through this can truly commiserate.

In hindsight the things that helped... co-sleeping. Nursing on demand and keeping our DS in our bed was really the way to go. If I had to do it all over again I'd tell my hubby to forget trying to get DS to "sleep on his own". It was a waste of time and just created additional tension.

Another thing: ear trouble... whenever DS was teething he'd get 'itchy ears' and it would keep him from falling asleep fully. I went to the healthfood store and bought "mullein garlic" and put a drop or two on a small piece of cotton and propped it into the outside of his ears...if you kwim. I did this a few times per day and it seemed to help him. If you suspect a full blown ear infection in your DC then see a dr for a perscription. After DS was on antibiotics 3 times I finally figured out the garlic mullein method and he has never had another ear infection. Some babies are just more apt to get them.

And remember for a more sensitive baby you need to be sure that you are strict about naptime and feeding time...stay away from sugars and additives. Don't take baby out to do chores or playdates or whatever if it's over naptime or mealtime.

Get loads of fresh air and activity when they are rested and fed... it will wear him out better.

And lastly... just wait it out... he'll get better more and more each day. He's going to probably always be a bit more energetic and sensitive.

The biggest thing really is the co-sleeping and garlic mullein for us... it really helped to give up the notion that he had to be sleeping in his own crib 'through the night'. Sleeping next to me and waking every 3 to 4 hrs to nurse and then back to sleep immediately was TONS better than forcing him to be like his sister...who slept through the night at 5 months...lol.

[ThreeofUs]

Lack of sleep can really bring out the beast in all of us. As pp said, can you and DH pass off DS to each other or someone else when you start to feel overwhelmed/angry? Having no other choice but to see our way through months upon months of colic, DH and I learned to just support each other through the crying and sleeplessness (ours and baby's) as best as we could and accept that we _all_ would get through it eventually.


:yeahthat: We can all hear your frustration, and MANY of us have been there. DH and I were on 4-hour shifts with DS for 8 months, and we learned that our only recourse was (during our off shifts) to get as much sleep as possible.

It's hard, it's awful, but you have to brace up to it and do the best you can for your child. One of the hardest lessons to learn is: Don't let your frustration get in the way of making your child's situation better - it'll only hurt you both.

As many pps have said, 1. find out what's wrong and 2. get some help, before you do something you'll really regret.

[KrisM]

I can not take my life revolving around his sleep or non-sleep ! It is ruling everything & making me very unhappy !


I'm very sorry you're not sleeping and your DS isn't sleeping. It is definitely hard.

But, really, your life is going to revolve around his sleep for a long time to come. Mine revolves around sleep with my 4 year old. Out too late and he's a disaster, up too early, and the same. He finally starting sleeping well just before turning 4 and it helped a lot, but still, our plans and our life revolves around the kids' sleep schedules. It's just a basic part of parenting, especially with an infant.

As for suggestions, I don't have any other than what's been posted - reflux, rocking, soothing, etc. I agree with PPs that letting a 5.5 month old cry for an hour is just not a good thing and is likely not to be very productive in the long run, either.

Good luck.

[kijip]

Traci, I think your trouble comes from a very unrealistic expectation. You expect him to be doing something he is NOT able to do. You have received countless suggestions about this particular situation and about previous situations which, while you seek out, you seem entirely unwilling to try. Sleep deprivation is hard and the fact that you have a baby causing it does not make it easier to handle but remember:

-You made a choice to have a another baby and be a mother to a newborn again- essentially we all signed up for this. It's not an easy job but sometimes I am calmed by recognizing that parenting is something I wanted and chose.

-You have options that you don't seem to have explored. Go back and look and recent threads to see them. Consider different sleep approaches.

-It will be over. At some point, you will get back to sleeping.

-Is there anyway you can carve out a nap or sleep period? Like your husband takes him at 4AM and you sleep until 8AM? Or your family comes over and sits with him while Sydney is at camp? I know that is not a lot of sleep, but it might be enough to take the edge off.

I am really concerned that you are setting yourself up for continued stress because of these expectations- ask yourself why exactly it is that you expect a 5 year old to put himself to sleep and sleep ALL night long? If you changed your expectation on this front, your stress would be lowered.

Lastly, I take issue with your use of the word Ferberize. Ferber would too. He does NOT advocate CIO for an hour for a 5 month old. You are not using the method you think you are- you are simply exhausted and making decisions that could be doing more harm than good in the long term.

[TraciG]

I called the doctor to talk to him, I'm waiting for him to call back. I will ask about reflux.

My life did revolve around my DD's sleep, I was alway's home for naps, bedtime was sometime's hard since we had to be out at in-laws. I guess I meant it's all I'm thinking about & worrying about.

I have done everything to help him sleep, nurse, sometime's he doesn't want that anymore, although he did sleep that way on me for an hour last night then I put him in the swing/ I can't use the swing sometime's when my DD is home since it's in the living room by the TV .

I do listen to everyone's suggestion's & appreciate them, mostly everyone suggested it may be reflux, I was going to wait for his 6 month appointment to ask but I'll ask now when he call's.


I really am a loving mommy just desperate now, I can NOT STAND to see my baby so tired & unhappy, I actually thought if he can learn to sleep he'd be so much happier !

[SnuggleBuggles]

Why not move the swing? Put it over in the dining room, maybe?

Sleep issues are hard. We were up from 1-4am the other night and it was miserable and I have no idea what caused it. I split the night with dh though and it really helped.

I agree with all the posters about getting out and taking a break. It might really help. Also, I agree with the others that we all signed on for this when we chose to have our babies. Luckily they are usually pretty darned cute and cool most of the time so you can overlook the other stuff. :)

GL!
Beth

[kransden]

Traci, I have "not slept" in your shoes. My heart goes out to you. My dd was the same way. No one can understand the utter hell you are going through with sleep depreviation. There is a reason it is a torture technique. It makes you crazy. My dd had GERD and we took the medicine. Please go to the Dr. and try it out. It didn't help my dd a lot, but it was better than not taking it. Try angling the crib mattress too. Unfortunately, some babies are unhappy babies. Unless you have had one, people don't get it. Do what you have to do to not to wind up on the evening news.
Hugs,

[CAM7]

Traci I know exactly where you are coming from...

He's difficult to calm...and babies that are intense like that are likely to not sleep well.

Have you tried NOT getting out of bed with him? When DS was awake I'd try nursing him back to sleep...and then Dh would walk him around the dark/quiet bedroom and that would do the trick.

Most nights for the first year we would be up 4 or 5 times between 10pm - 6am... but we'd never flip on any lights or make noise of any kind when he was awake...to keep from waking him up further...if that makes sense.

This first year for you will probably be the most difficult... but he'll start to gain progress soon...just hang in there and I like the idea that someone posted about getting a babysitter so you can take a nap...even if it's just a few times per week.

Try not to be too hard on yourself for trying different methods... we've seriously btdt. Severe sleep deprivation can make you feel like you can't think straight and very very desperate. But it will get better!

[brittone2]

I called the doctor to talk to him, I'm waiting for him to call back. I will ask about reflux.

My life did revolve around my DD's sleep, I was alway's home for naps, bedtime was sometime's hard since we had to be out at in-laws. I guess I meant it's all I'm thinking about & worrying about.

I have done everything to help him sleep, nurse, sometime's he doesn't want that anymore, although he did sleep that way on me for an hour last night then I put him in the swing/ I can't use the swing sometime's when my DD is home since it's in the living room by the TV .

I do listen to everyone's suggestion's & appreciate them, mostly everyone suggested it may be reflux, I was going to wait for his 6 month appointment to ask but I'll ask now when he call's.


I really am a loving mommy just desperate now, I can NOT STAND to see my baby so tired & unhappy, I actually thought if he can learn to sleep he'd be so much happier !

I think it is a great step forward that you are going to talk w/ the doc about possible reflux.

Why can't you move the swing? I know you are in an apt but it seems like you should be able to move it to the kitchen, a bedroom, etc. for a while if Sydney wants to watch TV?

Even if he was able to learn to go/stay asleep (and personally, I'm kind of doubtful about that with a baby so so young), there are so many things ahead...developmental milestones, teething, naptimes changing, moving to one nap, etc. that end up screwing w/ sleep for the next few months anyhow. That's why personally, I've learned to just roll with it and go about my day to the best of my ability. I find my frustration is at its highest when what I think *should* happen and the reality of what *is* happening are different. The fewer expectations I make of myself and a young infant, the better IME.

Can you time his naps so that you go out for a walk and maybe he sleeps in the stroller (since it seems from your other posts he'll sleep in there sometimes) or in the Ergo? Maybe a walk to the park in the morning, some playtime, and then he falls asleep on the way back in an Ergo or stroller?

I'm not downplaying the importance of sleep, believe me. But I think you first need to just get both of yourselves some decent sleep for a few days any way that you can. And then you need to review your options and reconsider your expectations. Under 6 months, or even at 6 months, is a very , very early age to expect a baby to go to sleep and stay asleep independently. It might be possible for some babies, but I don't think it is probable. And to get to that point, there will likely be a lot of tears/frustration (on both of your parts) anyway. Why not just step back and readjust your expectations, starting w/ meeting the basic need of sleep (for both of you) any way you can for now?

I know it is frustrating. Believe me.

I also think you need a break and some support from family. And if you are feeling pressured by ILs or DH to "make" your DS sleep, I think you might need to have a firmly worded chat with them ;)

[kijip]

Traci, I have "not slept" in your shoes. My heart goes out to you. My dd was the same way. No one can understand the utter hell you are going through with sleep depreviation.

My heart goes out to Traci too, but I would point out that most of us have in fact at some point gone through sleep deprivation with a child. The fact is that MOST 5 month olds do not sleep all night, so most parents have BTDT. For some it is harder that other and for some their babies are more challenging. Still, I would wager to guess that nearly everyone on this thread knows what she is dealing with.

[kijip]

I really am a loving mommy just desperate now, I can NOT STAND to see my baby so tired & unhappy, I actually thought if he can learn to sleep he'd be so much happier !

:hug::hug::hug: It is hard, no one is saying it is easy. I hope you and your family get what you all need soon.

[lisams]

Okay, IMHO letting a baby that young cry for one hour is just plain wrong. ( and I am perfectly willing to take all flaming for saying this).

I agree, flame away. Have you even talked to your ped about him perhaps being in pain from reflux? Even Ferber says that before you ever even attempt his method you should rule out any other medical issues with your dr. (such as teething, sickness, reflux, lactose intolerance issues, etc.)

It sounds like more than anything you need a support system and need to give yourself a break.

I'm sorry you're going through a rough time.

[TraciG]

Thanks again everyone

YES I do need a break, I was out with my DD yesterday & it was wonderful !

[SnuggleBuggles]

Is there any way you could get someone to take Jacob for the night just so you can get caught up on sleep a bit?
Sometimes I think that could really help. :)
It really will get better!

Beth

[s_gosney]

Hey Traci,

Sorry you're having a rough go of it. I've been there and am right now to a certain extent. DS is not as bad of a sleeper as dd was, but he is doing the 45 minute nap thing (as I posted about before) and it's driving me crazy!
I think the reality is that sometimes we need to just more honestly accept that having a baby is *hard*. And some babies are *really hard*. And with a dh who is perhaps not the most supportive (mine and yours both), it's easy to get at your wits end.
So I don't have a lot of advice (you've been given lots of good advice already...please do try some of it), but I definitely sympathize. Give yourself (and the little guy) a break. As the pp have said, I think if you can adjust your expectations, you will feel much less stressed (and a reduction in your stress level will help ds too). Seriously, you can not *make* him sleep, and the harder you try, the more frustrated you're all going to get and everyone loses out in the end that way. I agree with beth (brittone). Do whatever it takes to get both of you some sleep in the short term and then reassess. You'll be able to think more clearly, and he'll be more apt to sleep if he's not overtired anyway. And do find a way to get yourself a break. I'm glad you and Sydney had a nice time yesterday. :)

Good luck. Keep your chin up and just keep on keepin' on. This too will pass.

[Corie]

I have been averaging 4-6 hours of sleep a night for the past 6 months. Am I happy about it? Not particularly. Am I willing to put up with it? Absolutely, because THIS is what I signed on for when I had kids - the good AND the bad. In the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty small inconvenience in my life, considering the joy dd brings into our home.

Very well said, Daniele! I completely agree with you!!

[mamaoftwins]

I have been averaging 4-6 hours of sleep a night for the past 6 months. Am I happy about it? Not particularly. Am I willing to put up with it? Absolutely, because THIS is what I signed on for when I had kids - the good AND the bad. In the grand scheme of things, this is a pretty small inconvenience in my life, considering the joy dd brings into our home

:yeahthat: Well said, daniele_ut.

DS2 = good sleeper. DS2 has regularly slept from 8p until 5a since about 3mo old with very few nights of waking in the middle of the night. But, he was the kid who screamed bloodly murder for HOURS every night for the first 3 months of his life. He regularly slept in the bouncer chair or swing then b/c that was all I could do to get him to fall asleep. It was like a switch flipped when he turned 3mo old. Those first 3mo were awful though!

DS1 = crappy sleeper. Has slept through the night like DS2 a handful of times. Regularly wakes around 11p, 1a and 3a and cries long enough that I need to get up and pat him back to sleep.

I would KILL to be able to sleep for more than 2hrs straight. Seriously. But, I do know that it will get better eventually.

Glad you are taking some positive steps by speaking to the doctor about reflux, etc. And I agree with PPs that it would be a good idea, if you can swing it, to get a little help so that you can rest a bit more. Do you have family or friends around that would be willing to help so you could at least get a nap?? Good luck, and I do sincerely hope that it gets better soon!! :hug:

[kboyle]

charlie & max were dream sleepers...Max did take a bit of Weissbleuth action, but by 6 mos we were sleeping & napping like clockwork!

ern on the other hand did have reflux and even on meds it didn't make him sleep thru the night any better. he woke up every night (up to 4 times/once every 2 hrs) till 9mos or so. by 11 mos he slept thru. Weissbleuth, reflux rx, nursing, CIO, nothing really worked other than some mama snuggles every couple hrs, lol.

i was so tired and sleep deprived that i fell down the stairs once & sprained my ankle by tripping over the ottoman in the nursery...both times holding ern.

it's just what you do as a mother, it's not like we don't know this getting into it, esp when we have older children.

i want to say first off check to make sure it's not reflux, but honestly...worry about that 2nd...you seriously need to relax. shut off the computer, shut off the tv and spend time with ds, nurse him, whisper to him...when YOU calm down so will he. not to sound rude, but how in the h3LL is he supposed to calm down when you are frantic? if he doesn't want to nurse walk him around the room, walk him around the backyard, take him into the shower with you...distract him. ernie cried ALL THE TIME. we went thru 3-4 different meds, i had him attached to my boobs at all hrs of the day, i napped while dh tried to calm him down, i gated myself into a room and let him nurse off and on while i napped on the floor, dont worry he will grow out of it and you will survive. finally at 9mos we were down to only waking up once a night and by 11mos he's an amazing sleeper.

if you dont relax neither will he...reflux meds or not.

[lmintzer]

Okay, I usually keep my mouth shut here, but I am shocked at the insensitivity I'm seeing. Sleep deprivation (if severe enough) is nothing short of torture. The fact that someone wants a baby, loves her baby, knows a baby brings joy, etc. in no way makes not sleeping for more than an hour or two straight for months on end feel okay. It sucks!

My older ds was a nightmare sleeper. He was colicky and almost never napped. I couldn't get a break to take a shower or eat or sleep. I was post c-section and literally cried to my dh that I needed to got back to the hospital. I thought I was going to die of pure exhaustion. We wound up having to get a doula for a few weeks so that I could get back on my feet. It didn't end there--the exhaustion went on for months and months. We eventually had to sleep train--the baby was sick from exhaustion; I was sick from exhaustion. DH was a wreck. You'd think we could have figured something out, but no. Even with both of our upper level degrees, we were reduced to barely functioning human beings. I did not want to sleep train my baby, but nothing else was working (not co-sleeping, not rocking, not slinging, etc.). We actually went to SEE Dr. Weissbluth and worked with him.

I don't know if TraciG is feeling this bad, but you can't profess to know what's going on in her head, her heart, and her house. Sometimes, it is just too much, and to say, "You took this on" or "The joy the baby brings should make it all worthwhile" is just plain unhelpful and unfair.

Sorry to sound angry, but I hate to see any mom stepped on when she's down. We all come here for help and support.

[o_mom]

Okay, I usually keep my mouth shut here, but I am shocked at the insensitivity I'm seeing. Sleep deprivation (if severe enough) is nothing short of torture. The fact that someone wants a baby, loves her baby, knows a baby brings joy, etc. in no way makes not sleeping for more than an hour or two straight for months on end feel okay. It sucks!

...

Sorry to sound angry, but I hate to see any mom stepped on when she's down. We all come here for help and support.

I think people would be a bit more sympathetic if Traci would actually do something to help the situation. She has posted multiple times, going back MONTHS, about his fussiness and not sleeping. The symptoms she describes are textbook reflux - not sleeping well unless propped, fussing at feeding, screaming and arching at feeding, wanting to comfort nurse all the time, etc, etc. In almost every single thread, people said "Have you talked to the ped about reflux?" and yet the thread prior to this she wondered why everyone thought he had reflux. Instead of asking the ped about it, she has continued to listen to her IL's bitter comments about how her baby "should be".

I honestly almost didn't open this thread because I knew exactly what it would be - Jacob is still not sleeping, still fussy and she hasn't bothered to take him to the doctor to make sure there isn't a medical problem.

[schums]

I think the "insensitivity" you are seeing is because Traci has posted LOTS about Jacob's sleep issues, and *LOTS* of people responded with suggestions, ideas, etc. and it doesn't look like she has even tried ANY of them, nor has she spoken to her doc about possible reflux. Also, the tone of her original post on this thread is that she is concerned about *HERSELF* and her life, not the baby.

[QUOTE=TraciG]I have had it, I am at the point that I don't care if Jacob is to young to be Ferberized, it was fine at this age for my DD. I can not take my life revolving around his sleep or non-sleep ! It is ruling everything & making me very unhappy !

The difference is that you tried *everything* and then decided that sleep training was appropriate for your child, and probably at a much older age than 5.5 months. Sleep training IS appropriate for children at the correct age/level of development.

[kijip]

I think people would be a bit more sympathetic if Traci would actually do something to help the situation. She has posted multiple times, going back MONTHS, about his fussiness and not sleeping. The symptoms she describes are textbook reflux - not sleeping well unless propped, fussing at feeding, screaming and arching at feeding, wanting to comfort nurse all the time, etc, etc. In almost every single thread, people said "Have you talked to the ped about reflux?" and yet the thread prior to this she wondered why everyone thought he had reflux. Instead of asking the ped about it, she has continued to listen to her IL's bitter comments about how her baby "should be".

I honestly almost didn't open this thread because I knew exactly what it would be - Jacob is still not sleeping, still fussy and she hasn't bothered to take him to the doctor to make sure there isn't a medical problem.
ITA. I agree with lmintzer that no one deserves to be kicked when down, but no one deserves to be pitied and told they are right on track when they are way, way, way off course either. So I don't really see that this thread is picking on Traci so much as expressing concern for not only her, but her son. Honestly, people have been a lot nicer in this thread than I anticipated given the sheer number of times this same thing has been hashed out to totally unheeded advice. I am not opposed to sleep training but that does not include (by any method- Weissbluth, Ferber, Pantley) letting a 5 month old scream for an hour at a time. Everyone here is pointing out the obvious- get DH help, get family help, hire help, move the swing away form the TV, try co-sleeping, get medical attention for reflux, not just telling her to grin and bear it.

[1964pandora]

i want to say first off check to make sure it's not reflux, but honestly...worry about that 2nd...you seriously need to relax. shut off the computer, shut off the tv and spend time with ds, nurse him, whisper to him...when YOU calm down so will he. not to sound rude, but how in the h3LL is he supposed to calm down when you are frantic? if he doesn't want to nurse walk him around the room, walk him around the backyard, take him into the shower with you...distract him. ernie cried ALL THE TIME. we went thru 3-4 different meds, i had him attached to my boobs at all hrs of the day, i napped while dh tried to calm him down, i gated myself into a room and let him nurse off and on while i napped on the floor, dont worry he will grow out of it and you will survive. finally at 9mos we were down to only waking up once a night and by 11mos he's an amazing sleeper.

if you dont relax neither will he...reflux meds or not.

I really have to second what Kristine said above. This is the kind of thing you have to do in the early months and sometimes even in the later months. This is the kind of giving and giving and giving that it often takes. A baby often needs this much attention, but you will live through it. I recommend that you read the Dr. Sears Baby Book if you haven't already read it.

Good luck, I'm sure you can do it if you keep trying.

Susan

[bubbaray]

Honestly, people have been a lot nicer in this thread than I anticipated given the sheer number of times this same thing has been hashed out to totally unheeded advice. I am not opposed to sleep training but that does not include (by any method- Weissbluth, Ferber, Pantley) letting a 5 month old scream for an hour at a time. Everyone here is pointing out the obvious- get DH help, get family help, hire help, move the swing away form the TV, try co-sleeping, get medical attention for reflux, not just telling her to grin and bear it.


ITA with Katie on this. Traci's posts have been going on for months now and, frankly, if she isn't going take advice, why ask for it in the first place?

5mo is far to young for any sort of sleep training -- trust me, I've read every !@#% sleep book Amazon sells and they don't recommend sleep training for a child that young.

As for the PPs that claim that those of us with zero sympathy for her at this point "don't get it" because we haven't BTDT, please, spare me. I HAVE BTDT with two children (different issues) and I have tried and tried and then tried some more. And, still, I didn't do any sort of sleep training until 10m (and even then, got some flack for it).

She has been given a boatload of advice over a period of months and taken none of it. So, don't ask me to have sympathy at this point. I mean, come on -- she can't use the swing b/c its in the living room? Duh, move the damn thing to a different room.

[brittone2]

I personally am not a fan of CIO. But doing CIO, with a very young child (even quite young for Ferber), and a child that may be in *pain* from reflux, is just difficult for me as a parent to read about without feeling a sense of pity for that baby. I'm just being honest. I personally couldn't CIO with my kids, but if someone is going to CIO, IMO, it is absolutely essential that they rule out reflux first. If the baby is experiencing reflux, CIO is just going to exacerbate his pain, and that seems, well....just cruel to me.

I would write down the symptoms he has that are possibly consistent w/ reflux, and I would definitely engage my doc in a discussion, and I would not allow myself to be brushed off.

If after all of that she chooses to CIO, that's her private and personal parenting decision. But not really diving into whether he has reflux when he has a lot of possible symptoms, and then having him CIO for an hour at 5.5 months is concerning, IMO. If he has reflux, and continues to CIO, he may not be able to "learn" to sleep anyway, and in the meantime he may be experiencing pain which he can't even tell anyone about, other than crying (and that crying may be ignored under the premise of "sleep training".).

I think that is the frustration I have w/ this situation.

On the other hand, Traci is obviously a mom who is trying to what she thinks is best for her child. In previous posts it has been obvious that there is not always a ton of support available to her and that she gets a lot of pressure from ILs and DH, which can be trying for anyone. She's obviously tired and sleep deprived and frustrated. Many of us have BTDT. Some of us are fortunate to have support from our spouse or extended family that makes it more tolerable. I can't imagine *not* having my spouse's support during those sleep deprived days. It would have been tremendously difficult.

But....how much more advice can be given when it doesn't seem as though the OP is interested in exploring other options besides CIO at this point in time?

I guess we should ask Traci if she just needs to vent or really wants our advice?

[lmintzer]

I should clarify--it's not the gentle nudges to go to the doctor, get checked for reflux, attempt to enlist family help that seemed insensitive. What bothered me were the comments in the vein of (and I'd rather not quote anyone specific) "If you wanted a baby, then you should be able to deal with this." Those kind of statements, IMHO, only come from mouths of those who are either looking down or feeling holier-than-thou for whatever reason. I would be hurt if someone made such comments to me.

It IS hard when you don't have good family support. Maybe Traci doesn't have people to lean on, and it sure sounds like she gets a ton of conflicting advice from people with very strong opinions.

Sometimes, the very act of doing something takes a lot of guts--when you are spinning your wheels in tired helplessness, it's hard to break out of the cycle. So if we keep gently encouraging Traci instead of losing patience (it's the internet, people--really--we can walk away at any moment), then maybe she'll feel empowered to try something helpful and seek the help she needs.

[lizajane]

I should clarify--it's not the gentle nudges to go to the doctor, get checked for reflux, attempt to enlist family help that seemed insensitive. What bothered me were the comments in the vein of (and I'd rather not quote anyone specific) "If you wanted a baby, then you should be able to deal with this." Those kind of statements, IMHO, only come from mouths of those who are either looking down or feeling holier-than-thou for whatever reason. I would be hurt if someone made such comments to me.

It IS hard when you don't have good family support. Maybe Traci doesn't have people to lean on, and it sure sounds like she gets a ton of conflicting advice from people with very strong opinions.

Sometimes, the very act of doing something takes a lot of guts--when you are spinning your wheels in tired helplessness, it's hard to break out of the cycle. So if we keep gently encouraging Traci instead of losing patience (it's the internet, people--really--we can walk away at any moment), then maybe she'll feel empowered to try something helpful and seek the help she needs.

thank you, lisa, for sharing my views. it is awfully hard to take any advice when you can't think straight because you are so sleep deprived. i had to be put on meds because of sleep deprivation and how much it hurt my FAMILY that my 2nd didn't let me sleep for a year and a half. my FAMILY needed me, too, not just my 2nd kid. like traci, i had another child to take care of and he was suffering from my sleep deprived state.

i am deeply, deeply saddened for traci, both her kiddos and for the moms who are so frustrated by traci's venting that they no longer have any kind words. this thread has honestly ruined my day.

[o_mom]

But....how much more advice can be given when it doesn't seem as though the OP is interested in exploring other options besides CIO at this point in time?


Exactly. The more I read the old threads, the more I get the impression that Traci has not been doing anything because she was planning on CIO ASAP. Some of her first posts on the subject talk about how many months until she can 'Ferberize' like she did with her DD.




I guess we should ask Traci if she just needs to vent or really wants our advice?

And if it is just venting, then this needs to be moved to the BP.

[crayonblue]

Okay, I usually keep my mouth shut here, but I am shocked at the insensitivity I'm seeing. Sleep deprivation (if severe enough) is nothing short of torture. The fact that someone wants a baby, loves her baby, knows a baby brings joy, etc. in no way makes not sleeping for more than an hour or two straight for months on end feel okay. It sucks!

My older ds was a nightmare sleeper. He was colicky and almost never napped. I couldn't get a break to take a shower or eat or sleep. I was post c-section and literally cried to my dh that I needed to got back to the hospital. I thought I was going to die of pure exhaustion. We wound up having to get a doula for a few weeks so that I could get back on my feet. It didn't end there--the exhaustion went on for months and months. We eventually had to sleep train--the baby was sick from exhaustion; I was sick from exhaustion. DH was a wreck. You'd think we could have figured something out, but no. Even with both of our upper level degrees, we were reduced to barely functioning human beings. I did not want to sleep train my baby, but nothing else was working (not co-sleeping, not rocking, not slinging, etc.). We actually went to SEE Dr. Weissbluth and worked with him.

I don't know if TraciG is feeling this bad, but you can't profess to know what's going on in her head, her heart, and her house. Sometimes, it is just too much, and to say, "You took this on" or "The joy the baby brings should make it all worthwhile" is just plain unhelpful and unfair.

Sorry to sound angry, but I hate to see any mom stepped on when she's down. We all come here for help and support.

Totally agree with Lisa. Traci, ask your ped about reflux and then ignore the rest of the comments on this thread. And please remember that YOU are the best judge of what your child needs, not the child-raising gurus on the BBB.

Lauren did not sleep through the night until 14 months and when we finally did CIO, I wondered what the heck we were thinking to have not done this earlier. After 14 months I finally had a happy baby. And, I finally felt like I could get thru ONE day without sobbing.

When we brought Carmen home at 5.5 months old, we continued getting up with her for a month or so and then did CIO. *Gasp* I must have been a truly evil mom to do CIO at 6 months old AND to be doing CIO with a baby I had just adopted. Well, she cried for a while the first night and then slept through the next night and every night after and I can say that was about the smartest thing I did with Carmen. Thank goodness I did CIO with her and ENJOYED the next 6 months with Carmen before we found out she had Tay Sachs.

[KpbS]

Have you tried introducing a transitional object like a lovey/little silkie/blanket or small stuffed animal? These can make all the difference and are certainly worth a shot. It doesn't have to be expensive or fancy--most likely you have something lying around that will do.

Hope things are better tomorrow/tonight

GL

[LBW]

Traci,

What did the doctor say? I'm hoping for your sake that he was supportive, kind, and had some helpful suggestions for you. I know how completely unwound, depressed, and numb you feel after months and months of sleep deprivation. I just went through a 7-month stretch where I did not get more than an hour of uninterrupted sleep at a time, and never more than 4 hours total each day. When you are dealing with that, it's hard to remember that milk goes in the fridge, let alone make difficult decisions about your child.

Keep in mind, that this, too, shall pass. He will sleep someday -- hopefully sooner rather than later.

[tnrnchick74]

I haven't read all 6 pages, and I'm not a "Mommy expert" because I've only been a mom for 2 months. But those 2 months have been MANY nites of being awake with a horribly colicky, reflux baby who is also high maintanence and LOTS of stress in both of our lives.

I had all these preconceived notions of what I would and would NEVER do before I had Parker. Once we got home, and the real sleep deprivation set it...all those notions have gone out the window. I didn't want to co-bed, but he sleeps best on my chest, in the sling. I expected 2 hr stretches - I was lucky to get 20 mins...and now at 2 months I'm lucky to get 2 hours.

you HAVE to have help. I would not be here without my mom and my aunt. There were nights that my Mom would come into my room, take the monitor, and let me sleep. There were nights I was at my breaking point and I would take him to them and be bawling, feeling like a failure. But Parker is who he is - a high strung child who is trying to tell me what he needs.

One thing I have figured out - he fights sleep like crazy. I have to literally wear him out - even though he's screaming trying to stay awake, I go out for walks, drives, we play, we sing...anything to wear him out a little more until he can "give up" BUT the entire time I am there with him. He's too young to cry it out...though there are times he does cry and I can't do anything about it (like when driving).

My ped also recommended 3 things: 1 - a bedtime ritual involving relaxation. Parker isn't find of a bath, but we give one THEN his bottle, THEN a book/rocking/pacifier. 2 - tylenol isn't going to hurt anything, especially at bedtime. They can't tell us "Mommy, my head hurts". 3 - Mylicon after crying spells as they swallow a lot of air, causing gas pains, causing more crying, causing more gas (and the viciou cycle continues).

I hope you get some rest soon! Here's to at least an hour of uninterrupted sleep!

[HannaAddict]

To those who think people are picking on Traci - I think the proverbial straw has broken the camel's back. This problem with sleep is not the first time tons of supportive, detailed, helpful advice has been offered and completely and utterly ignored. This time it involves a sad, crying baby and I think people have had enough of talking to a wall. I think there are support issues, in-law demands and other issues and I hope that some of the collective info has helped. But trying to force something that a baby is not developmentally not ready for when other options have been ignored (move the swing!) just hurts our collective hearts. Babies are hard, sleep deprivation can be awful (we spent month 5 taking turns rocking and sleeping in the glider with baby 2) and frustration can boil over.

To Traci - it can be hardest before it gets better. Baby 2 was a great sleeper at first. She was bigger than her brother (baby 1) and slept for longer stretches at night. We felt great getting five hours at a time. Enter month 5. Crying when put down, hysterical crying. Nothing worked, nursing to sleep, etc. Sound asleep, set her down, cry and cry. So, we took turns rocking her and holding her for 3 weeks to a month. Still tried to put her down, and one night, she stayed asleep! She is still not as easy and mellow a sleeper as her brother and will go through phases where she still wakes up at night (was getting molars last week and I was sleep deprived mess) but for the most part she sleeps well in her crib. For naps, from about six months to (gasp) one year - she slept in a papasan swing between the dining room and living room of our tiny bungalow. Some days she was in the swing in our bedroom with the door open so I could watch her. She didn't really take crib naps until about a year. So, move the swing and make room for it in another room any way you can. If you can get a reclining glider (wish we had bought one!), it is a nice improvement to the regular kind.