Snap election

[bubbaray]

Well, looks like we too will be going to the polls this fall:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080829.wfedelex29/BNStory/National/home

Kinda funny, though, that the election will happen before the US one, that feels like its been going on for years now....

All I can say is I sure hope that there is a majority government of one party or the other. I'm sick of minority gov'ts.

[Neatfreak]

Agreed. It's the fourth election, I'm sure, since my daughter was born (if the one I voted in whilst in labour counts). She's only four!

I'm kind of looking forward to telling my American friends that Canada is also electing a new gov't this fall, and it will be done in about six weeks!

[MontrealMum]

Ugh! Not again! Though I do agree that a majority would be nice this time. And by then I should be able to vote :)

[bubbaray]

I'm kind of looking forward to telling my American friends that Canada is also electing a new gov't this fall, and it will be done in about six weeks!


:yeahthat:

I can't imagine holding voter interest for 2 years. People out west here get bored with elections where their votes don't count even if the election is only 6w away....

[trinity991]

Again huh? Not surprising. I'm very glad that we're not like the U.S campaigning forever.

[Piglet]

Now I have to figure out how to vote from down here... I am getting well versed in the US election process. That'a all anyone talks about. I wonder what everyone discusses when it isn't election season. Oh wait, it is ALWAYS elections season, I think!

[bubbaray]

Here ya go:

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=gen&document=ec90540&dir=bkg&lang=e&textonly=false

[psophia17]

Can someone explain to me in very simple terms how the heck these elections work? Because as a born and bred NYer, I just don't get it. DH and the ILs haven't managed to explain it to me, either...

[MontrealMum]

I'm with you Petra, DH has never explained things to my satisfaction. But he couldn't explain curling either, so maybe it's our communication skills :) The election-thing that's hard for me to get is that you vote for a representative (m.p.), and then they count all those up, and whichever party has the most votes, that leader is P.M. You don't actually vote for the P.M.!!! Very hard for an American to get used to. Along with that appointed Senate. But I am learning...because we have so many other great things up here :) But of course here in QC it's just all the more complicated if you're Anglo...if my citizenship comes through before this election, I don't have a clue what I'll do.

[psophia17]

Dh tried to explain it to me last night.

This is what I think it meant:
1. Each province has ridings
2. Each riding has an MP
3. When the MPs are elected, the group with the most MPs is the winner, and the leader of that party is PM.

What I didn't catch was what a minority/majority gov't was.

Also, what happens if the leader of the party doesn't win his or her riding? Who is PM then?

Come to think of it, who decides the leader of the party?

eta: he said not to worry about the senators, they don't really do anything but get paid to be there.

[MontrealMum]

A majority government has a majority of votes out of the total votes available (determined by the no. of mps). A minority government (like we have right now) is determined when the winning party (the Conservatives) have the most total no. of mps, but not a majority of total votes. I hope that makes sense, reading it back, I don't know. Minority governments can fall easily (was it Joe Clark that had a gov't that lasted a matter of days? - sorry, not so good with the modern Can. hist.). So, the pm will often call an election at his own time, rather than be forced to before the gov't folds.

I couldn't point you to any actual legislation, but Senators do perform an important role. One of the things they're been criticized for is non-representativenss (geographically). It was on Harper's slate for tackling with this government (the only thing I remember, I don't follow Can. politics closely) but I don't think he's gotten too far with it. Senators are appointed, sit for life, and determine? or decide upon legislation - as an American, this doesn't sit too well with me, but again, I can't give any specific examples, so I'm not going to get too worked up about it until I know more.

Maybe your DH was referring to the hockey team ;) ?

I, also asked about if the leader of a party not winning their riding, because it was looking like Dion (I think, but am not sure) might not last time and I thought that that was really puzzling. DH had no good answer, but thought that either he could still be in charge, or that someone else within the party that had been elected would be asked to step down and give over their seat. I'm thinking he might have been making that up, so I wouldn't trust that answer. I should probably ask someone in the Pol. Sci. dept at school. I do know, though, that parties try to pick "safe" ridings to run their important candidates in, so that they'll be sure to win.

The party members decide the leader of the party at their convention. We watched the Liberal convention last year because I was excited about two academics dueling for leadership (sorry, I get excited about strange things) and it was very different than the US-style. Everyone holds pickets for their candidate, who then drops out, and they all trail over to the candidate that they're going to now put their weight behind. And then it happens again, until one remains. Lots of hugging and handshaking between opponents. It seemed a little more "united we stand" than I'd seen in the US, but again, just seen the one, and it might have been like that since the Liberal party was plagued with in-fighting over the past few years.

You should watch the Mercer Report - it's a total send-up, but also *somewhat* educational :) Just don't watch the "talking to Americans" part, I don't like that...

[psophia17]

How can you have more mps, but less votes?

[bubbaray]

Dh tried to explain it to me last night.

This is what I think it meant:
1. Each province has ridings
2. Each riding has an MP
3. When the MPs are elected, the group with the most MPs is the winner, and the leader of that party is PM.

What I didn't catch was what a minority/majority gov't was.

Also, what happens if the leader of the party doesn't win his or her riding? Who is PM then?

Come to think of it, who decides the leader of the party?

eta: he said not to worry about the senators, they don't really do anything but get paid to be there.


OK, about the senators, :ROTFLMAO: So true!

Wow, where to start. These might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_electoral_system

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/prbpubs/bp437-e.htm

The Gov't of Canada is the Sovereign (the Queen's representative is the Governor General), the upper house (Senate) and lower house (House).
The Senate is not an elected body. They are appointed, for life, and its basically a patronage appointment -- great pension if you can get it.

Elections are for the lower house of Parliament. BTW, during Federal elections, there are no other elections or measures or "distractions". You get one ballot with just the candidates running for MP in your riding. Judges are not elected here. Provincial and City/municipal elections are held separately from Federal elections.

Yes, each province has ridings for Federal purposes (they also have separate ridings for provincial purposes, those elected officials are called MLAs in BC, as well as municipal elections which are not, at least in BC, based on ridings, but rather slates). During a Federal election, the voters cast ballots for 1 person they wish to be MP for their riding. The candidate with the most votes wins the riding, regardless of the % -- its a first past the post system.

The party with the most MPs elected is the governing party. If they have a majority of MPs, it is called a majority gov't. This type of gov't is the most powerful because, in theory at least, they can get all their "wishes" passed in parliament (assuming the "Party Whip" does his job and gets all the MPs from the governing party to vote along party lines). A minority gov't is generally less powerful (though Harper has navigated it rather well IMO) because they have to strike "deals" with the other parties in order to get their support on votes. A minority gov't governs until the lose a confidence vote in the House, or their leader calls an election (when they think they can win, which is what Harper obviously thinks now).

Generally, the leader of a party is placed in a "safe" riding for that party. For example, Harper will run in a solid Conservative riding. Dion will run in a Liberal riding. On the rare chance that the leader of the elected party doesn't win his/her seat, the leader will generally have one of the "backbenchers" (jr members) step down and a by election will be held, with the leader being successful in that by election. I seem to remember this happening but honestly couldnt' tell you to whom (Martin?).

The leader of each political party is elected by the individual party members, usually at a convention. Somewhat similar to the US process. There are successive ballots, so if there are ten initial candidates for leader, there may end up being a number of ballots, and considerable back room arm twisting before a candidate ends up being elected/nominated by their party.

This document is interesting:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0546-e.htm

Item C3 in particular sums up the Western alienation issue. Historically, a Canadian election was decided by the time the polls close in Ontario & Quebec. That is because those 2 provinces have a majority of seats in the House. However, that is no longer, b/c of the Bloc Quebecois. When the Liberals basically had a lock-down on Quebec, the votes of the rest of the country didn't count, which is why they ruled for soooooo freakin' long.

Ask specific questions. My undergrad is in political science, though mostly US/Soviet relations and military strategy.

[bubbaray]

Nose around on the gc.ca website.

I found this:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/idb/forsey/can_am_gov_01-e.asp

[bubbaray]

More on how gov't "works". http://www.parl.gc.ca/publications/Parl_democracy_in_action/Democracy-e.asp

Senators don't do much. In fact, they don't even have to show up to work at all. Grrrr.

They generally just rubber stamp legislation. Very very rarely do they do any actual work.

[psophia17]

I'm still not getting how a minority gov't happens - if the party hasn't got the most MPs, how can it's leader be PM?

[bubbaray]

I'm still not getting how a minority gov't happens - if the party hasn't got the most MPs, how can it's leader be PM?


The party that has the most MPs *is* the PM. However, if that party does not have a majority of seats in the House, it is called a minority gov't. My last link says there are 308 seats in the House. So, a majority gov't is one that has 155 seats or more.

[mommyp]

Now I have to figure out how to vote from down here... I am getting well versed in the US election process. That'a all anyone talks about. I wonder what everyone discusses when it isn't election season. Oh wait, it is ALWAYS elections season, I think!

Just to let you know, depending on your situation in the US, you might not be able to vote. DH and I can't. Read the link that Melissa provided carefully! After we moved to the US, when an election call seemed imminent, we requested the info and started filling in the forms. They mean it when they say "temporarily" residing outside Canada, you have to put down the date on which you intend to return to Canada to live again. Since we couldn't do that, we couldn't vote. Now we're past the "5 years outside Canada" point and can't anyway. Let me tell you, as someone who has voted in every election I could since I turned 18, I have found it very hard to sit through elections on both sides of the border and not be able to vote in any of them!

[MontrealMum]

C'mon guys, noone liked my Senators joke? I was pretty proud of myself considering I know next to nothing about hockey...

[psophia17]

The party that has the most MPs *is* the PM. However, if that party does not have a majority of seats in the House, it is called a minority gov't. My last link says there are 308 seats in the House. So, a majority gov't is one that has 155 seats or more.

How many MPs per House seat?

[MontrealMum]

1 seat for 1 MP


Melissa, thanks for the detailed, and accurate (unlike DH's) answer!

[psophia17]

Is having more than two parties the bit that's confusing me? A majority gov't would have more than half the seats, and a minority gov't has the seats split up somewhat evenly among 3 or more parties?

[MontrealMum]

Well, say that there were 100 total seats in the House of Commons (there aren't, but I'm not so good with the math thing). In this *fake* scenario in the last election the Conservatives won say, 40 seats, the Liberals 25, the Bloq 20, the NDP 14, and the Green Party 1. Melissa may have the real #s, but I think those are *close* percentage-wise.

So, out of all 5 parties, the Conservatives had the most, but a majority of total seats in such a scenario would have been 51. So, they had the most seats, but not a majority. It was similar with the previous government with Martin also having a minority gov't which is why it fell. When a minority government, like now, wants to pass legislation it likes to make deals with the other parties so that their total combined votes (which would be 60 here) would not defeat it. So, you get some interesting partnerships, like the Conservatives working with the Bloq (although, of course, alot of the Bloq's base was made up of former QC Tories...)

[bubbaray]

Is having more than two parties the bit that's confusing me? A majority gov't would have more than half the seats, and a minority gov't has the seats split up somewhat evenly among 3 or more parties?


Yes, the # of parties here can be confusing.

A minority gov't doesn't necessarily have seats split evenly between the three or more parties (can't remember if the Green Party has gotten official party status yet, don't think they met the legal test under the Elections Act, but they are taking that to court). A minority gov't is any gov't that doesn't have a clear majority (which I'm pretty sure is 155 seats).

The current minority gov't is a good example. The Conservatives have far more seats than the other parties (~127? or so). But, b/c they don't have a clear majority, if all the other parties vote against them, they can't pass legislation. If the vote is a confidence matter (usually budget), they will call an election. There is no law saying that, but its the "practice" in Parliament.

Harper's minority has lasted so long mainly b/c of the Bloc Quebecois preferring to vote with the Conservatives instead of the Liberals (which makes the Conservative and Bloc a coalition minority gov't, b/c the Bloc has agreed to vote with the Conservatives on important measures). The Bloc may very well help Harper win a majority in this election b/c the Bloc will take seats away from the Liberals in Quebec. Any party that helps take seats away from the Liberals will help the Conservatives.

[bubbaray]

How many MPs per House seat?


Yup, like Molly said, 1 MP = 1 seat in the House. Literally. Which is part of the problem with changing electoral boundaries and increasing the number of MPs. I'm not sure they actually have anywhere to sit! In gov'ts that have overwhelming majorities, there's not enough room on the gov't side of the house (the Speaker's right hand side) and some have to site on the other side ("across the floor") with the Opposition.

[bubbaray]

C'mon guys, noone liked my Senators joke? I was pretty proud of myself considering I know next to nothing about hockey...


Girlfriend, we don't joke about hockey in these parts. That's serious business, far more important that some silly election!

:ROTFLMAO:

[bubbaray]

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/process/house/partystandings/standings-e.htm

Conservatives = 127
Liberals = 95
Bloc = 48
NDP = 30
Independent = 4
Vacant = 4


So, in theory, if the Liberals and Bloc voted together, they would have 143 votes, more than the Conservatives, which is why the Conservatives have only a minority gov't.

However, in practice, the Liberals and Bloc are unlikely to vote together. Like Molly said, many Bloc MPs are either former Conservatives or from former Conservative ridings. On most issues, other than Quebec separatism, the Bloc more closely aligns with the Conservatives. That is why Harper has had a relatively well-functioning minority gov't -- b/c the Conservatives have been able to form a coalition with the Bloc.

Also note that the Liberals and NDP currently have fewer combined seats (125) than the Conservatives. This is important -- Martin's previous minority gov't was basically a Liberal/NDP coalition (b/c those two parties are more closely aligned).

HTH