Spinoff of Time Out Thread: Positive Discipline Question

[randomkid]

I am really trying to ask DD to do what I want her to do, not always telling to NOT do something. This is really quite easy actually since what I'm having problems with is her refusing to do simple things. I ask her to go to the bathroom, wash her hands, brush her teeth, take off her dress to get ready for bed, etc. Seems I am ALWAYS asking her to do what I want her to do, but she is being defiant and refusing to do them.

The only thing I have found effective is telling her she has to do it or I will do it for her. If that doesn't work, then I have to threaten a consequence, like putting a toy on the shelf, taking her favorite dress away and putting it up on a shelf, etc. I don't use time out for this type of thing. Time out is only for bad behavior, hitting, being mean, etc. So, how do I get her to do these simple things with positive discipline? I've already told her what I WANT her to do, but she isn't doing them. What's the next step?

Thanks

[maestramommy]

I'm not sure if what I do is right, and seeing as your DD is several months older than Dora, we may not be in the same place. I've always told her what I want her to do using the wording that "this is what is going to happen." For example, "okay Dora time for dinner, let's go wash hands." Or "Dora, can you put that back on the counter?"She's always been pretty agreeable, but in the last several months has gotten more stubborn, or defiant, or willful, or whatever. Sometimes I have to give a consequence, like "if you want this, then you need to do this" Other times I distract her with what the final goal is, usually something that appeals to her, to get her on track with what needs to happen beforehand. Example, we're going to the indoor playground today, so we need to get dressed, have breakfast, get shoes and socks on, etc.

As I said, Dora is several months younger. Who knows, 8 months from now she could be totally driving me nuts! :p

[MamaKath]

So, how do I get her to do these simple things with positive discipline? I've already told her what I WANT her to do, but she isn't doing them. What's the next step?

Do you give her the instructions all at once? Try breaking it down to simple steps. As you give the steps have use your fingers (Example- First I want you to wash your hands, next dry them, finally come to the kitchen for lunch. Encourage her to count them off too.

What about picture cues? A chart with little pictures that she can move when she has done them can help her feel independent and serve as a reminder for the routines of day to day life. http://webclipart.about.com/ has all kinds of clip art that is useful. So in the evening, maybe she has to get dressed in PJs, brush teeth and go to the bathroom. As she completes each one she moves them over and her reward is a story.

Good luck!

[brittone2]

Depending on her age, you can do the 5 steps or an abbreviated version. Does she like to do it by herself?

I'd just say, it is time to XYZ. I'd remind her once more, and then ask if she needs my help (depending on age, I might skip the asking part). I'd then move in and help her complete what your instruction was.

Is it mostly before bed that she has a problem? She may be tired and truly need extra help getting those steps completed. It is hard to comply when you are tired. I don't always feel like washing my face, brushing my teeth, etc. and often find myself procrastinating at the computer or watching TV in bed thinking about how I need to get up and do those things. I do it, but I don't always enjoy it, and I have several decades on your DD ;)

[lizajane]

the magic words in my house (with dylan) are:
do you want to do it yourself or do you want me to help you?

for dylan, he ALWAYS wants to do it himself.

this also works for:
can you come here or do i need to pick you up and carry you?

ETA: i also let him know, "this is not a choice. we are brushing teeth."


this DOES NOT WORK for schuyler. he just says, yes, i want you to do it. lol! definitely trial and error with each individual kids!

schuyler's psychologist suggested (and remember, this is a "special circumstance" situation with a super challenging kid...) that we put him on the time out spot and tell him he stays there or he accomplishes the task. period. choose to get dressed, or choose to sit on the step. the theory here is that he will miss out on more desirable activites by wasting time on the step. (like time outside, time with daddy, or even time at the computer...)

[Raidra]

Well, I think it depends on what type of thing she's refusing to do. We have certain things that are non-negotiable in our house, like brushing teeth, washing hands, bedtime, etc. For those things, if they don't get started on their own, I physically help them with a, "Let's go, it's time to brush your teeth" (I don't ask if they want me to help.. if they don't do it themselves, then they need help).

For things like getting ready to go out to the playground, I've let the kids decide not to go if they really don't want to. "If you don't put your shoes on right now, we won't be able to go to the playground. You'll miss the slide, the swings, etc." If we're actually meeting someone there, then it becomes more of a requirement, so I try to give options.. "You're really enjoying playing with that game, do you want to play for five more minutes, and then we'll go?" "If you don't want to wear those sneakers, how about these boots? Or sandals?" I've let my kids wear some pretty wacky things out of the house because it's just not worth the fight. It's their body, their clothes, etc. If my kids don't want to wear jammies to bed, then they can sleep naked. And unless their clothes are really dirty, I'd let them sleep in their clothes if they really wanted to. I mean.. what's the big deal?

The thing is.. if you're actually trying for a consentual relationship, it's kind of disingenuous to say, "Do you want to do it, or do you want me to?" The child doesn't really have a choice. It's fine to have things that are required, but it's always struck me as a bit calculating to pretend that there's more choice than there really is. Just my opinion.

[JustMe]

I just went to a conference on brain development. I learned that kids' brains really do need pictures to learn, so the visual cues suggested by a previous posters could help a lot. I also learned that research shows that the brain really does learn with positive reinforcement, so providing a sticker chart or some kind of reward when dc does what you ask them to can help a lot. One thing that I really learned is that you should always praise/thank dc when they do what you ask/or practice whatever behavior your are asking them to EVEN if they didn't do it at first and you had to remind them to. I have never been one to thank/praise dd for doing something that I had to remind her to/or ask her more than once to do when I feel she should already know/do it upon my first request, but I have been doing this since Friday night and have already seen a big positive difference in dd's behavior and mood.

[randomkid]

Other times I distract her with what the final goal is, usually something that appeals to her, to get her on track with what needs to happen beforehand. Example, we're going to the indoor playground today, so we need to get dressed, have breakfast, get shoes and socks on, etc.

I do that - doesn't really work. I'll tell her over and over - "We are going to dance class today. We have to do XYZ before we leave." It works to a degree, but I still have to tell her multiple times. It's more difficult when we aren't going anywhere or I'm trying to get her ready for bed, which is the worst because she never wants to go to bed. I even try to tell her that we have to get up early tomorrow for X, but I think that's too far away and she doesn't really care at that point. All she cares about is NOT going to bed.

[randomkid]

Depending on her age, you can do the 5 steps or an abbreviated version. Does she like to do it by herself?

I'd just say, it is time to XYZ. I'd remind her once more, and then ask if she needs my help (depending on age, I might skip the asking part). I'd then move in and help her complete what your instruction was.

Is it mostly before bed that she has a problem? She may be tired and truly need extra help getting those steps completed. It is hard to comply when you are tired. I don't always feel like washing my face, brushing my teeth, etc. and often find myself procrastinating at the computer or watching TV in bed thinking about how I need to get up and do those things. I do it, but I don't always enjoy it, and I have several decades on your DD ;)

DD is almost 4yo. I have tried asking her, repeating, then asking if she wants my help. Sometimes she does, but most of the time if I try to help her, the whining and crying begin. She doesn't really like to do it by herself. When she wants to do something, yes, she wants to do it by herself. I am referring to times when she is just refusing to do anything. She'll go to the bathroom, then get up and walk out, saying "I don't need to wash my hands." She only does this at home. If we are out, I have no problem getting her to wash her hands (usually).

No, it's not just at bedtime. It's ALL. DAY. LONG. I'm also often telling her things I DON"T want her to do, so I'm going to work on that one. That seems simple to me, except when she does something that needs an immediate response (example: putting her mouth on the mirror in the dressing room, picking up a straw cup in a party store and sucking on the straw - yuck!) Getting her to do the things she needs to do without being punitive is my challenge right now.

[randomkid]

I think I've tried just about every one of the approaches mentioned, in some form anyway. I really have a difficult time when we are in a rush, but I guess that's to be expected. I know I'm dealing with age related behavior, but DD also has quite the stubborn streak.

The only thing I haven't tried is the chart and frequent positive reinforcement. I do try to tell her that I'm proud of her and how good she behaved/how nice it was that she listened the first time, etc. However, I'm probably not doing it frequently enough. I will try both of these strategies, but am definitely open to more suggestions. You'd think with having a degree in Psychology, this would be easier for me. Of course, that was a long time ago, it is not my profession and I didn't study child psychology - lol!

[fivi2]

...

The thing is.. if you're actually trying for a consentual relationship, it's kind of disingenuous to say, "Do you want to do it, or do you want me to?" The child doesn't really have a choice. It's fine to have things that are required, but it's always struck me as a bit calculating to pretend that there's more choice than there really is. Just my opinion.


I guess for me, if something is a requirement, then there really isn't a choice as to the actual activity. However, there is a choice as to the method. So there is still that choice of doing it alone or with help. I don't see that as pretending there is a choice as to the main question... as in I tell my girls it is bed time now (required). Do you want to walk or do you need me to carry you? That is an actual choice and on different days they make different choices as to walking or being carried. I don't feel like I am tricking them... But maybe I don't understand what you are saying...

To op - mine are almost a full year younger than yours, but one of mine often refuses everything. I haven't figured otu a magic cure, but consistency seems to help. If I give in once to the stalling, then the stalling gets worse next time!

[Moneypenny]

DD is 4 and we have the same issues. What has finally worked for DD is to let her know that the longer it takes her to do X activity (in DD's case it's usually getting dressed/undressed, brushing teeth, picking up toys, etc), the less time we have for Y activity. So, at bedtime if she is dawdling to get her jammies on, I say "The longer it takes you to get your jammies on the less time we have for story." In getting ready to leave the house, it will be something like, "The longer it takes you to get your coat on, the more late we'll be for swim class and you'll miss your favorite shark song" or "we'll be rushed at the grocery store and I might get cranky" or "you'll be late for preschool and won't be able to say hello to Milena's little sister when her mom drops her off"...I make sure to use genuine consequences and just state matter-of-factly what is going to happen if she takes too long to do things.

For things like washing hands after going to the bathroom or brushing teeth, I've just made it clear that she has to do that thing before we move on to the next.

We also do a lot of playful parenting - have races to see who can wash hands or brush teeth faster, sing silly songs while getting dressed, try to make baskets when tossing toys into the toy bin, etc.

[lizajane]

I think I've tried just about every one of the approaches mentioned, in some form anyway. I really have a difficult time when we are in a rush, but I guess that's to be expected. I know I'm dealing with age related behavior, but DD also has quite the stubborn streak.

The only thing I haven't tried is the chart and frequent positive reinforcement. I do try to tell her that I'm proud of her and how good she behaved/how nice it was that she listened the first time, etc. However, I'm probably not doing it frequently enough. I will try both of these strategies, but am definitely open to more suggestions. You'd think with having a degree in Psychology, this would be easier for me. Of course, that was a long time ago, it is not my profession and I didn't study child psychology - lol!

i just realized she is exactly the same age as dylan! 1/05! I think you may just have a case of the 3 year olds. dylan gets better and better every month, but he is just a "prone to not listening" kid. i just got his teacher report and it says, AGAIN, he sometimes has trouble listening. because he DOES want to do things himself, what i mentioned previously really works for him. BUT before i figured that out, i realized that i just plain had to walk to him and start the action for him. as in, dylan go wash your hands. he ignores me. i walk to him, take him by the hand and lead him into the bathroom. it is called "get off your butt parenting" by the gentle christian mother's website. LOL! it is the same idea as getting down at your child's level to look them in the eye. you have to really engage them.

if you have one like schuyler, who would RATHER you do it for him, you may have to pick your battles. what i do for schuyler is help him when it works for me, and insist he do it alone when it doesn't. and i tell him why. some days, it is "come here and i will help you get dressed." and i do. other days, i tell him, "i need to get your waffles in the toaster so i need you to get dressed by yourself today." this allows him to understand that i am there for him, am willing to help him, but also NEED him to be a "big boy" and start learning to take care of himself.

the other HUGE HUGE thing with schuyler, who is a total whine-ball, is getting him to do things BEFORE he is tired. AFTER he has eaten. etc etc. he cannot do his homework right after school. he is starving, has low blood sugar, is exhausted and just has to eat, run circles and zone out. in that order. BUT if i ask him to get his jammies on just after dinner, after he has eaten and before he is tired, he will run up, pick them out, put them on, brush his teeth and come down very proud and ready for some daddy activity time or movie time or homework time. for him, it is ALL about timing. for dylan, it is all about independence.

hope you find her "currency.".

[lizajane]

I guess for me, if something is a requirement, then there really isn't a choice as to the actual activity. However, there is a choice as to the method. So there is still that choice of doing it alone or with help. I don't see that as pretending there is a choice as to the main question... as in I tell my girls it is bed time now (required). Do you want to walk or do you need me to carry you? That is an actual choice and on different days they make different choices as to walking or being carried. I don't feel like I am tricking them... But maybe I don't understand what you are saying...

To op - mine are almost a full year younger than yours, but one of mine often refuses everything. I haven't figured otu a magic cure, but consistency seems to help. If I give in once to the stalling, then the stalling gets worse next time!

i have to agree with the above. it isn't false to tell a 3 year old that he can do it himself or ask for help. he is still learning. would i ask a 10 year old if he wanted me to help him wash his hands or do it himself? no. i don't even ask my 5 year old if he wants help washing his hands (just for example.) but it really is a choice for my 3 year old. do it THIS way or do it THAT way. but do it.

[Raidra]

I guess for me, if something is a requirement, then there really isn't a choice as to the actual activity. However, there is a choice as to the method. So there is still that choice of doing it alone or with help. I don't see that as pretending there is a choice as to the main question... as in I tell my girls it is bed time now (required). Do you want to walk or do you need me to carry you? That is an actual choice and on different days they make different choices as to walking or being carried. I don't feel like I am tricking them... But maybe I don't understand what you are saying...


I'm saying that if you are requiring something, then whether you give them a choice as to how it's done or not, you're still imposing your will on them. *If* you're trying for a consentual relationship, then giving them the choice "You do it or I do it for you" is not consentual, and it's disingenuous to pretend it is. That's all. :) In other words.. if you're going to require something, there's only so much you can do to make it a pleasant experience for the child.

Think of it this way.. if your husband came up to you and said, "Get off the computer, it's time for bed. Do you want to get into bed yourself, or do you want me to help you get into bed?" Would it really matter that you had a choice as to how you got into bed, or would you still be ticked off that he was imposing his will on you?

Don't get me wrong.. like I said in my original post, we do require things of our kids. But while I try to make it pleasant if possible, I don't kid myself that they're going to suddenly be happy about what I'm making them do if I give them a superficial choice.

[fivi2]

I'm saying that if you are requiring something, then whether you give them a choice as to how it's done or not, you're still imposing your will on them. *If* you're trying for a consentual relationship, then giving them the choice "You do it or I do it for you" is not consentual, and it's disingenuous to pretend it is. That's all. :) In other words.. if you're going to require something, there's only so much you can do to make it a pleasant experience for the child.

Think of it this way.. if your husband came up to you and said, "Get off the computer, it's time for bed. Do you want to get into bed yourself, or do you want me to help you get into bed?" Would it really matter that you had a choice as to how you got into bed, or would you still be ticked off that he was imposing his will on you?

Don't get me wrong.. like I said in my original post, we do require things of our kids. But while I try to make it pleasant if possible, I don't kid myself that they're going to suddenly be happy about what I'm making them do if I give them a superficial choice.

I guess we just disagree then :) I don't see the parent child relationship as a partnership between two equals. I am the adult - there are things my 3 yo will be required to do. I don't have a problem with trying to give them limited choices within the constraints that I set. They get to try out making decisions and I get what I need accomplished. I do not believe they are mature enough to make all of the decisions.

I guess I see it more as - say a teacher assigns a book report. I get to choose what book I read and even what word processing program I use, or APA v. Chicago manual style rules, but not whether the actual report gets done. Or if a boss gave me an assignment. But, even with a spouse I probably could think of an example. as in me: "I need you to get x at the store today." He can go before work or after work, he can choose whatever store he wants to go to, but I still need the item purchased. And if he doesn't go, he won't be eating dinner. (not as punishment, but because the item isn't here.)

So - I guess we just view it differently!

[brittone2]

DD is almost 4yo. I have tried asking her, repeating, then asking if she wants my help. Sometimes she does, but most of the time if I try to help her, the whining and crying begin. She doesn't really like to do it by herself. When she wants to do something, yes, she wants to do it by herself. I am referring to times when she is just refusing to do anything. She'll go to the bathroom, then get up and walk out, saying "I don't need to wash my hands." She only does this at home. If we are out, I have no problem getting her to wash her hands (usually).

No, it's not just at bedtime. It's ALL. DAY. LONG. I'm also often telling her things I DON"T want her to do, so I'm going to work on that one. That seems simple to me, except when she does something that needs an immediate response (example: putting her mouth on the mirror in the dressing room, picking up a straw cup in a party store and sucking on the straw - yuck!) Getting her to do the things she needs to do without being punitive is my challenge right now.

DS went through a not so fun phase right around the time he turned 4, so it may just be a period of disequilibrium ;)

I wouldn't ask. I would say "You need to wash your hands." You could try giving a choice (should I turn the faucet on or do you want to turn it on?. Do you want to dry your hands with the blue towel or the green towel when you are done?"). Some kids do better w/ choices, sometimes they do better with fewer choices. But I wouldn't ask her to wash her hands because it isn't negotiable, kwim? I'd say "you need to wash your hands." I'd remind one other time, and then I'd be swooping in and helping her do it (not in a punitive, nasty way. I would just do it. She may cry or be unhappy, but we'd do it. I think if she realizes your words have meaning and that it will happen, she'll be more likely to do it on her own.

I'm pretty crunchy leaning, but I can't do consensual for everything. I just am not there. I try to respect kids' opinions, and for the little things, I don't really worry (like the PPs example of jammies/no jammies, or wearing certain clothes that I wouldn't pick out, etc.). But toothbrushing, handwashing, etc. I would just "help" her complete because it needs to be done.

A picture schedule, etc. may be helpful as PPs said.

I'm not sure if that helps or not?

[Raidra]

I guess we just disagree then :) I don't see the parent child relationship as a partnership between two equals. I am the adult - there are things my 3 yo will be required to do. I don't have a problem with trying to give them limited choices within the constraints that I set. They get to try out making decisions and I get what I need accomplished. I do not believe they are mature enough to make all of the decisions.

So - I guess we just view it differently!

I guess I'm not being clear enough. If you're *not* trying to be consentual (the OP isn't, I'm not, etc), then you have to accept that there are times when you're going to ask your child to do something that they don't want to do. And you have to accept that sometimes you're not going to be able to come up with a way to make your child happily do it. That's all.

Personally, I look at our relationship as me being an experienced guide, rather than a boss, but whatever.

My point is just that if you're going to require your kids to do something, they're not always going to be happy about it, regardless of what hoops you jump through to try to accomodate them.

[lizajane]

My point is just that if you're going to require your kids to do something, they're not always going to be happy about it, regardless of what hoops you jump through to try to accomodate them.

i think we actually agree. it is just a semantics issue. i am not trying to get my kid to be happy about doing it. i am trying to get it done! i don't care if he is happy about washing his hands. i care that he washing his hands. i am using a tool (choice) as a means to an end. if giving him a choice makes his hands get washed, then i give him the choice. because really, he is either going to do it himself to get it done, or i am going to have to intervene to get it done. period. i can't just ask him to do it, he does it, everyone is happy because he is 3 and he doesn't always follow directions. so instead of being his boss and saying, "WASH YOUR HANDS OR ELSE!!!" i am being his guide and saying, "you can do it, or i can do it, but it is gonna happen."

[fivi2]

i think we actually agree. it is just a semantics issue. i am not trying to get my kid to be happy about doing it. i am trying to get it done! i don't care if he is happy about washing his hands. i care that he washing his hands. i am using a tool (choice) as a means to an end. if giving him a choice makes his hands get washed, then i give him the choice. because really, he is either going to do it himself to get it done, or i am going to have to intervene to get it done. period. i can't just ask him to do it, he does it, everyone is happy because he is 3 and he doesn't always follow directions. so instead of being his boss and saying, "WASH YOUR HANDS OR ELSE!!!" i am being his guide and saying, "you can do it, or i can do it, but it is gonna happen."

yeah that :) I think we are all on the same page now! (the guide/boss distinction isn't meaningful to *me*, but I get that it is to some.) I try to do things in a fun way, but at the end of the day certain things have to be done.

Sorry for the tangent, op!

[Raidra]

i think we actually agree.

I think so too. It seemed like the original poster was looking for a way to get her kid to comply on her own.. when in reality, sometimes it might be easier to just ask once, then help them do it, and then move on, rather than trying a dozen different things to get them to be happy about doing something they don't want to do.

[brittone2]

I think so too. It seemed like the original poster was looking for a way to get her kid to comply on her own.. when in reality, sometimes it might be easier to just ask once, then help them do it, and then move on, rather than trying a dozen different things to get them to be happy about doing something they don't want to do.

I agree! I also think if you show them your words have meaning, and what has to be done has to be done, then they may be more likely to comply on their on in the future. I also think that if you choose your battles (what must be done vs. what you are willing to compromise on), they realize that when you say something *truly* needs to be done, it does.

[Dcclerk]

For my kids, part of positive discipline is having a routine for things that they don't particularly like doing and for taking time for me to connect and play with them even when I don't particularly feel like doing it. I also need to give us enough time to accomplish things without feeling terribly rushed.

For the routine, it is helpful for the kids to know that we don't have any screen time (TV or computer) before they have cleaned up their toys. They don't get to watch much-- probably a show or 2 a few times a week, and the computer once or twice a week-- but it just isn't going to happen until we get the house picked up. We also aren't going to leave the house until the house is in some semblance of order. Weirdly, in my previous house, I thought that was absolutely impossible, now it seems like it is just a 3 minute chore that is part of our routine before we leave.

Also, as I sense myself getting increasingly frustrated with the whining, lack of compliance, etc., I get us out of the house. Sometimes it is to "play soccer" out front, other times it is to run around at the beach or the park, but I make myself play. I don't really enjoy doing board games or playing dress-up and make-believe that my DH can do, but I am pretty good at pushing a swing, racing my kids or whatever, so I find something I will do and get out to connect. I find that I get much better compliance and cooperation after I've taken time to really have fun with them.

[randomkid]

I guess for me, if something is a requirement, then there really isn't a choice as to the actual activity. However, there is a choice as to the method. So there is still that choice of doing it alone or with help. I don't see that as pretending there is a choice as to the main question... as in I tell my girls it is bed time now (required). Do you want to walk or do you need me to carry you? That is an actual choice and on different days they make different choices as to walking or being carried. I don't feel like I am tricking them... But maybe I don't understand what you are saying...

To op - mine are almost a full year younger than yours, but one of mine often refuses everything. I haven't figured otu a magic cure, but consistency seems to help. If I give in once to the stalling, then the stalling gets worse next time!

I agree. I think giving a choice of you do it or I'll do it/help you is a choice. I feel that DD has to learn the consequences of her decisions sometimes. We do this a lot actually. I give her a choice and she makes the decision. If she is unhappy with the end result, I'm sure to tell her that she made the choice. If the thing I'm asking her to do is required, then giving her choices along the way gives her some control. Sometimes, she actually says "I want you to do it." That's her choice at that moment. I can only recall one time in the past few months where I literally forced her to do something. She was being totally defiant about brushing her teeth (lips clamped shut, putting her head down, etc.). I told her she had to brush her teeth or I would hold her down and do it like I did when she was "little". She continued to refuse, so I held her down and brushed. I still think she made a choice here, but I did "make" her brush. She didn't scream, fight me or anything. I think she was testing me to see how far she could push it. However, it hasn't happened again - lol! What she doesn't realize yet is that Mommy will always win. I *have* to or she would run the household.

I agree with respecting your child and I try really hard to do this. I have since DD was born, but you still have to be the parent and be in control. I don't know how I feel about calling it a consensual relationship. Parenting really can't always be that. I can work with DD and try to help her grow the best way I can, but in the end, I have to be the one in control.

[randomkid]

yeah that :) I think we are all on the same page now! (the guide/boss distinction isn't meaningful to *me*, but I get that it is to some.) I try to do things in a fun way, but at the end of the day certain things have to be done.

Sorry for the tangent, op!

That's OK, because I didn't really get it either. I replied to that post before I read the clarification. I get it now - no, DD isn't going to always be happy with the required activity and I don't expect that. However, I just want her to do it and I want some strategies that aren't so punitive. For washing hands, I made up a song and that seems to be helping. This thread has been helpful as it is reminding me of things I used to do, but have let go lately. I need to get back to some of those things and see if it helps. I'm definitely trying the chart. I think I'll try it for getting ready for school in the am and for going to bed. Sometimes, it's just hard to make a game out of everything and I just want her to do the task!

[randomkid]

I think so too. It seemed like the original poster was looking for a way to get her kid to comply on her own.. when in reality, sometimes it might be easier to just ask once, then help them do it, and then move on, rather than trying a dozen different things to get them to be happy about doing something they don't want to do.

Now, I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't expect her to do it on her own or to always be happy about it. And no, it's not always easier to ask once, then help her do it, then move on. Often, if I try to help her do it, she has a fit - whining, crying, etc. - either because she doesn't want to do it at all or she wants to do it herself. She is just very good at stalling and wants to be in control.

I don't try a dozen different things either. I'm just looking for ways to make it more positive, so I'm not always threatening her with a consequence if she doesn't comply. I can't force my kid to pee before bed - she has to do that herself. I can't always offer her a reward just for peeing on the toilet - we're past that. See, it's extremely frustrating when it's not just one thing, but then the next and the next after that. She isn't like that all the time, but sometimes she gets in a mood and refuses everything. Just looking for a way to make it more successful when she is refusing or stalling on every aspect of her bedtime routine or getting ready to leave the house. You don't really realize all the steps it takes to accomplish those seemingly simple activities until you have a kid that fights you every step of the way!

Overall, DD is a great girl. Just yesterday, she wanted a piece of candy. My Mom told her no, then DD said "maybe a little taste?" My Mom let her have one bite of the chocolate, then DD was happy. I know other kids that would have a full out tantrum over something like that. She really is mostly good, which is why I don't like being so negative with her when she is being difficult. I just want some positive approaches, that's all.

ETA: I also try to be very consistent. As Beth said, what has to be done has to be done. I never let her get away with not brushing her teeth, etc. I do compromise on other things, like letting her wear her Dorothy dress to the doctor's office - who cares? DD knows when I mean it, she just doesn't care sometimes.