Should I report her? Irresponsible mother made me go psycho on her @$$

[irie i]

I cannot believe what I just saw!

I just went to a little restaurant near my home to pick up some lunch. There was a lady paying for her order. She had a young son, about 5, and a newborn baby. The baby was in a car seat which was placed on top of a stroller.

The 5 year old walked passed his mom and was looking down at the baby. He was not being rough, didn't make any fast movements or anything, but he bumped the car seat with the baby in it which toppled over and landed UPSIDE DOWN on the HARD floor!!

It made a loud sound and after a few seconds of everyone standing there looking shocked the mother PICKED UP and THREW her son out of the way and picked up the baby and placed the car seat back on top of the stroller. Luckily she at least had the baby strapped in to the car seat. I was in clear view of all of this since I was standing two people behind the woman. The baby did not hit the ground at all...THANK GOD she had a decent and apparently safe car seat. The baby didn't cry or anything. She took the baby out of the car seat, picked it up and started yelling at her 5 year old.

She made sure the baby didn't have any bumps on his head all the while screaming horrible things to her boy about how he could have killed the baby!! I felt so bad for him! He never said a word and just looked so scared and embarrassed. The idiot woman finally calmed down after about 3 minutes and paid for her food. She proceeded to put the baby back in the car seat and put it back on top of the f'n stroller without strapping it down or holding it or anything. She grabbed her 5 year old by the elbow and pulled him out of the restaurant while pushing the stroller with the baby on it.

She went outside to where her car was and started hitting the 5 year old HARD on his butt and back...still yelling at him. I was livid...and maybe I was wrong but I couldn't help myself. I went out there and gave her a piece of my mind!! I told her that her little boy was just looking after the child that she obviously can't care for...and that the accident was HER fault for not having her child's seat locked securely into the stroller...and that she is blaming and beating her poor son when it is her lazy ass fault for not taking better care of her baby. I told her I would report her to child protective services for both matters and took a picture of her, the baby on the stroller, her car and license plate with my cellphone. Then I realized I was going nuts on a woman I don't know in a parking lot and got a little embarrassed and fled. I did not get my food...I just walked back home.

Do you think I should report her to CPS? I would never forgive myself if something were to happen to either of those children which could have been prevented if she has someone perhaps force her to learn about child safety.

[elektra]

Sounds like your pregnancy hormones went into full effect by confronting her like that! I think I would have had a heart attack when I saw the baby fall. I was at a restaurant once where a woman dropped a small baby on the ground and the scene in my head is still so vivid.
This is why I don't get why people perch their car seats up on top of grocery carts.
I think I would report it to CPS based on the fact that it sounds like she was beating the crap out of her son out in public. Who knows what she would do in private.
What is the law about "spanking" anyway?

[egoldber]

Honestly, I think by embarrassing and confronting her all you did was set that kid up for a much worse beating at home. I would not have called CPS for the carseat thing because I don't think that's abusive. Not very bright, but not abusive.

[ShanaMama]

Honestly, I think by embarrassing and confronting her all you did was set that kid up for a much worse beating at home. I would not have called CPS for the carseat thing because I don't think that's abusive. Not very bright, but not abusive.

I think the OP wanted to report the woman's treatment of the five year old, not the carseat incident itself.
And sadly, the boy probably did get a worse beating at home. Which is why I think this should be reported.

[irie i]

Honestly, I think by embarrassing and confronting her all you did was set that kid up for a much worse beating at home.

Great. I'm going to go kill myself now. G'day!

[maestramommy]

Wow, you had a lot more guts than I ever would, taking the pics and everything! I just don't understand why the carseat wasn't IN the stroller, since the 5 yo obviously wasn't sitting in it. Was it full of stuff?:shake:

I really hope the little boy is okay.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I shouldn't have clicked on this thread. I can't handle the thought of child abuse and now I am worried as all get out about a family I don't know.

Beth

[srhs]

I shouldn't have clicked on this thread. I can't handle the thought of child abuse and now I am worried as all get out about a family I don't know.

Beth

Me too; I just didn't know if I should write it before.
Having lost a loved one to abuse, I'm sick.
That said, it has given me time to sit and think about how I might want myself to react to a situation like this. No easy answer.

[maylips]

You go girl! Those mama instincts have definitely kicked in for you. Did the woman say anything back or did she just stand there, flabbergasted that this woman was standing in front of her, screaming at her?! You are brave and I'm proud of you.

If you feel strongly enough, report it. A home visit from an officer wouldn't hurt I would think. Otherwise, you'll just beat yourself up not knowing.

[irie i]

Wow, you had a lot more guts than I ever would, taking the pics and everything! I just don't understand why the carseat wasn't IN the stroller, since the 5 yo obviously wasn't sitting in it. Was it full of stuff?:shake:

I really hope the little boy is okay.

Nope it wasn't full of stuff at all...I don't understand it either.

As far as her beating the kid more and it being my fault after I took those photos and threatened her I don't see why she would make it worse once they got home. *shrug* I'm scared I could have made it worse, though...after people's comments here I'm sick to my stomach. Luckily I notified the authorities and I am going to follow up tomorrow. Let's just hope the woman just did something that was totally outside of herself because she was so freaked out about what happened with the baby. *crosses fingers*

PS: I can't blame my big mouth and me stepping in and saying something on my hormones...it is in my nature to try to protect people that are being abused. I have called 911 on 3 separate occasions in my life after witnessing women being abused by men. All but the last time I called I kept my distance and called 911 while keeping an eye on the situation...but the last time I called I told the young man that I was about to call the police. I just don't think its ok to stand by while people are victimized. I have heard too many horror stories about people dying and passersby seeing the situation and not calling for help or stepping in.

[WatchingThemGrow]

Personally, I think you did the right thing in calling it in. Not sure I would've had the guts to confront her, as I'm more the type to just stand aside and quietly do it. I don't think she went crazy on the kid at home. Surely she knew she was the responsible party. With the high drama of the baby falling, her knee-jerk reaction was to blame the kid. Going out in public with 2 kids can be a little nerve-wracking, then to have something like the tumbling baby incident when she probably could've been at home making lunch. It probably just set her off.

[C99]

Honestly, I think by embarrassing and confronting her all you did was set that kid up for a much worse beating at home. I would not have called CPS for the carseat thing because I don't think that's abusive. Not very bright, but not abusive.

This. To the OP: you committed a HUGE mommy drive-by. You have no idea what the dynamics are in that family. Perhaps the 5-y/o has done things to his sibling in the past that crossed the line and the mom just lost her temper?

[dcmom2b3]

Irie i --

While it's true that that little boy might have gotten it worse once he got home, by your reporting it hopefully it will be the start of things getting better for him. Also, I dare say that it isn't lost on a 5 yo that someone who doesn't know him or his mama stood up to her to tell her that she was out of line. Hopefully that's a message that will stick with him regardless of what the authorities do.

You did a crazy, courageous, good thing.

[bubbaray]

Hmmmm, I've worked in policing and I'm pretty sure the standard line of most police agencies would be to NOT confront someone yourself, but to call 911 and let them deal with it.

If I witnessed a child being beaten like that, I'd call 911. However, I'm in Canada and there is actually a Supreme Court of Canada decision that specifically sets out what ages of children can be hit by parents (ages 2-12 -- any younger or older and its illegal) and where (never on the head and IIRC never on the spine) and with what (hand only, no other object).

I can tell you that I would NEVER in a million years confront someone like that if I still lived in the US. I'd be too afraid that other person would shoot me.

[frugal mom]

Good for you!! I think you did exactly the right thing. Hopefully contact from CPS will give that woman pause, and perhaps CPS will direct her to counseling or classes. Please don't feel like you did anything to make the situation worse for those children-- you did not.

[kijip]

The hitting him on the back and yelling gives me pause, clearly the woman was abusive and was not dealing with anger appropriately. However, her behavior does not exonerate yours- yelling at her, insulting her and telling her she did not care about her kid. None of those things make the situation any better. I agree with you 100% that the abuse was wrong but you could have intervened without yelling or heightening the situation with insults.

The car seat thing is not abusive. It's something that could happen to an otherwise well meaning person. The baby was fine and obviously the mother was rattled by it. As hard as it is to believe, most abusive parents are people that love their kids- but they are overwhelmed and lack the tools needed to handle the frustration of the job well. I am not at all condoning how she treated the 5 year old and think such abuse needs to be reported (preferably on the spot with a 911 call). Another thing to consider is that your behavior detracts from your creditability in making a report- one the report was not made on the spot and two there are likely people that saw you freak out on her.

Hopefully, the mom's behavior was out of the ordinary but everything I know about child abuse tends to make me think this was not an isolated incident. Abusive parents usually have to progress for a long time before they are willing to risk being abusive in public like that.

Learn from your mistake in freaking out and let that make you a better advocate in the future. You clearly have a good heart.

[kijip]

This. To the OP: you committed a HUGE mommy drive-by. You have no idea what the dynamics are in that family. Perhaps the 5-y/o has done things to his sibling in the past that crossed the line and the mom just lost her temper?

I would totally agree with you if it did not involve physical violence. Spanking as discipline is one thing, freaking out, screaming and whacking your child on the back over and over is another. Hopefully the mother is not generally like this, but that does not change the fact that the mother abused her son. Certainly the OP did not respond in an ideal way and without the abuse, I would think it was a way over the top mommy-drive by.

[KBecks]

I wa ok until you said she was hitting her son in the parking lot. I think seeing one thing it's hard to know if she's horrible or if it was a horrible day. But I think it's ok to call cps and they can figure it out

[Moneypenny]

[QUOTE=dcmom2b3] Also, I dare say that it isn't lost on a 5 yo that someone who doesn't know him or his mama stood up to her to tell her that she was out of line. Hopefully that's a message that will stick with him regardless of what the authorities do. [QUOTE]

I agree. I worked for a while with adults who were abused as children. Many of them remember the day a stranger stepped in to say something about what they were witnessing as a turning point in their lives. They finally realized what their abuser was doing to them was wrong and that there were people out there who were willing to help.

I think you probably could have handled it in a calmer manner, but I would also have said something to the mother. Physical violence isn't okay and her child should know that.

[egoldber]

I guess I'm just speaking from my personal experience. When someone said anything to my father that angered or embarrassed him in public, we really paid for it at home later.

I don't think her actions were appropriate, but it really isn't clear to me from the OP that it was abuse. And the OP's reaction was clearly not appropriate either. A friend of mine (who is an AMAZING mother) once yanked her child a bit roughly in Target when having a VERY bad day (which we all have....). The woman behind her in line verbally harangued her and followed her to her car to continue. My friend was seriously scared and considered calling 911. I would be very careful following someone to their vehicle. If you thought it was abuse, then taking down her license plate and calling CPS is a better reaction. I think that personal confrontation has a lot of potential for backfiring.

[ha98ed14]

I don't think her actions were appropriate, but it really isn't clear to me from the OP that it was abuse. And the OP's reaction was clearly not appropriate either. A friend of mine (who is an AMAZING mother) once yanked her child a bit roughly in Target when having a VERY bad day (which we all have....). The woman behind her in line verbally harangued her and followed her to her car to continue. My friend was seriously scared and considered calling 911. I would be very careful following someone to their vehicle. If you thought it was abuse, then taking down her license plate and calling CPS is a better reaction. I think that personal confrontation has a lot of potential for backfiring.

I agree with you. Saying something in the the moment and place it happens might be ok, but following her out to her car is over the top. If you see something *that* disturbing, call the police! Don't follow the woman out to her car and continue to yell at her on the public street. I think it is better to call the police and let them report to CPS if necessary.

[C99]

I guess I'm just speaking from my personal experience. When someone said anything to my father that angered or embarrassed him in public, we really paid for it at home later.

I don't think her actions were appropriate, but it really isn't clear to me from the OP that it was abuse. And the OP's reaction was clearly not appropriate either. A friend of mine (who is an AMAZING mother) once yanked her child a bit roughly in Target when having a VERY bad day (which we all have....). The woman behind her in line verbally harangued her and followed her to her car to continue. My friend was seriously scared and considered calling 911. I would be very careful following someone to their vehicle. If you thought it was abuse, then taking down her license plate and calling CPS is a better reaction. I think that personal confrontation has a lot of potential for backfiring.

Beth, as usual, the Voice of Reason. :)

[Ceepa]

I may have followed her out to the car to see what, if anything, happened to the little boy. Especially if someone is acting violently against a child, you don't know what that person would do to you confronting them in public. So to keep yourself safe, OP, I'd sugest not confronting a person like you did again. However, I know sometimes a person is so outraged by witnessing a horriffic scene that impulse takes over.

And, I refuse to give a person the benefit of the doubt who's pummeling her child repeatedly and screaming at him in a parking lot. I would have called the police ASAP. Yeah, we've all had days when we've acted inappropriately, but who knows how many kids could have been delivered from a truly violent home if someone had reported troubling behavior?

[Laurel]

Just wanted to point out that we are talking about a newborn, according to the OP.

I think post-partum stress could be playing a role in the incident. Clearly this woman needs help. While I DO NOT condone her actions, I also feel a bit of compassion for a freaked out mom, trying to buy groceries out with two small children, who has just seen her newborn knocked on to the floor and is then yelled at by a stranger. While I have never hit my children, I have had parenting moments I am not proud of, and I have always been grateful for the compassionate actions of strangers...I think the OP could have taken a softer approach and still acted on behalf of the child.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I don't know that I would've offered help or if she would have accepted it (without hitting me), but offering her help out to the car might have been a good (woulda shoulda coulda) gesture.

[proudsahmof3]

In my state, there are two kinds of child abuse reporters - mandatory and permissive. Mandatory reporters are those that deal with children regularly in the scope of their profession, typically in the areas of health, education, child care, mental health, law enforcement, and social work. If mandatory reporters do not report suspicion that a child has been abused they can face civil and criminal charges. Mandatory reporters are required to have training to be aware of the types of child abuse and what the signs are. I myself am actually employed through the state to provide this mandatory reporter training. Permissive reporters are everyone else, strangers at the grocery store, next-door neighbors, etc. that can still report child abuse but are not legally required to do so. The only reason I bring this up is because at the training that I present I also give a handout recommended by Prevent Child Abuse America and the National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse to the trainees about what to do if you see a child being abused in a public place. Just thought I would pass it on, since I think that there are so many of us that don't know what to do when we see a situation like the OP described.

Here's the link (not from my state, but the same info): http://www.childabusenetwork.org/html/ghelp_public.htm

(provided by the National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse)
It can be uncomfortable to watch a child mistreated by an adult who's out of control. Fortunately, there are things you can do to help.

Start a conversation with the adult to direct attention away from the child. Say something such as:

"Children can wear you out, can't they? Is there anything I can do to help?"
"She seems to be trying your patience."
"My child has gotten upset like that too."
"He has beautiful (eyes)." - this can encourage a more positive mood for the parent.

Talk to the child to divert the child's attention if misbehaving.

Look for the first opportunity to praise the parent and child.

Offer assistance if the child is in danger. For example, if the child is left unattended in a grocery cart, stand by the child until the parent returns.

Avoid negative remarks or looks. These reactions are likely to increase the parent's anger and make matters worse.

[Rainbows&Roses]

And, I refuse to give a person the benefit of the doubt who's pummeling her child repeatedly and screaming at him in a parking lot. I would have called the police ASAP. Yeah, we've all had days when we've acted inappropriately, but who knows how many kids could have been delivered from a truly violent home if someone had reported troubling behavior?

Exactly. That mom doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt from her actions in the parking lot. If she didn't have the ability to control her rage in a public place, there is obviously a larger issue.

[saschalicks]

I've read all of these answers and I see what everyone is saying, but I keep coming back to the fact that a little boy was being hit repeatedly. The fact that it was in public is just absolutely abhorent. Should the OP have confronted the mom? Maybe not, but she did, and that's that.

I suffer from depression and I know after a newborn how hard it is to keep my cool. Yes, this woman could've had a really bad day and be suffering from PPD, however, if that's the case it's all the more reason why she needs help. From my experience the fact that she was hitting [in public] regardless of her issues means it's gone to the bad place, that no child should be a party to.

I'm glad you called CPS. I'm glad b/c even if it was nothing it's better safe then sorry. However if it something then....

[irie i]

I have read everyone's responses and I thank you all for your opinions and input. I felt really bad and couldn't sleep a wink thinking I could have done something to worsen the situation. I have called to follow up and while they cannot give me any details they assured me that they are looking in to the issue and surprisingly someone else reported the incident as well...but couldn't give any details on the mother because they didn't see her license plate...so although I may have been putting myself at risk of getting shot (doubtful, but ok lol) or otherwise hurt by this woman I am glad I did that. I do want to point out that I did not follow her out just to harass her...I followed her out to see if she had a car (may people in this neighborhood walk as everything is close by) so I can get her information. It was only when I saw her continuing to beat the child that I really did give her a piece of my mind. I did leave the restaurant angry but contrary to what I said before (I was really fired up and not thinking that clearly when I posted) I didn't go after her just to tell her off. In any case I am glad I said something. I got her information and stopped the beating...I reported her and all of that is enough for me.

[Melanie]

Oh my, I'm sorry that happened. I don't know what I would have done. I would have been just as upset, that is for sure.

I did read a story on the stroller swap board, though, where someone offered to buy a mom with an improperly loaded stroller a double (or in this case maybe a sit & stand or something?) from a local consignment shop. You could try that in the future, or in lieu of forking out your own funds, even suggest a charity that could help provide her with something safer for her child. If she can afford it herself or appear to, maybe it would at least embarrass her into getting something safer for her child.

I totally understand the anger and disbelief that jumped to the forefront of your mind, but sometimes some sympathy (ahem...even when that's not REALLY what you want to say) could go further.

[kijip]

And, I refuse to give a person the benefit of the doubt who's pummeling her child repeatedly and screaming at him in a parking lot. I would have called the police ASAP. Yeah, we've all had days when we've acted inappropriately, but who knows how many kids could have been delivered from a truly violent home if someone had reported troubling behavior?

100% agreement here.

Yanking an arm or snapping or whatnot is benefit of the doubt, mom is having a bad day stuff. Whacking a kid over and over on the back in public? Not just a one time thing and not even ok as a one time thing. She needs help.