Deleted

[randomkid]

Deleted. This thread turned into something that I did not intend. I feel I have been attacked and all but called a racist. I do not want my words quoted and misconstrued any longer. I was approached to edit part of a post as some found it offensive. I have been VERY offended by many of the responses here and feel I am justified in deleting my post.

[elektra]

His Mother was white, his Father black (Kenyan). That makes him just as much white as it does black, correct? .

Yes, that's correct. But he is still (half) African American. Maybe mixed race is a better qualification? I think I see what you are saying (maybe) in that it would be more historic if his ancestors were once slaves in America. But a black, or mixed race president is still pretty historic IMO.

Per Wikipedia.......
Most African Americans are the descendants of captive Africans who survived the slavery era within the boundaries of the present United States, although some are — or are descended from — voluntary immigrants from Africa, the Caribbean, Central America, South America, or elsewhere.

[irie i]

I don't see what is so difficult about it. Obama's father was Kenyan which is in Africa, which means Obama is of African American descent. People prefer the term African American to Black for whatever reason. And, in the US, what color people immediately see is what color they assume you are. Nobody would look at Obama and say he is a White man...they would say he is Black or biracial.

As far as your comment about him not growing up in an urban Black neighborhood....do you honestly believe that makes him less Black?! I know it wouldn't make me any less Latina even if I grew up in a primarily White or Black or Asian or whatever neighborhood.

It is historic if he is elected because he will be the first President of the United States that is Black...I still don't see how hard this is to comprehend.

[maestramommy]

Actually, while back I remember hearing that people will identify themselves as African American even if they are less than 1/4 African American. I don't know if other people of color (Asian, Latino, Native American) do the same, but I just remember it made an impression on me. So for other people to ID Obama as African American is nothing unusual.

[icunurse]

Two things (I am guessing) - the one drop rule and the fact that, in the eyes of society, he is not seen as 1/2 white or biracial merely based on his appearance. Unless someone told you his Mom was white, would anyone guess or even bother to think about it? Again, just guessing, but he has probably been seen his entire life as a black man and that is what he mostly identifies with.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

When you think of the biracial celebrities out there who also consider themselves black or AA, it seems to fit into who they identify themselcves by their life experiences.

[DrSally]

In this country, it tends to be that if you have any "minority" in you, you are labelled as that minority. I think it goes back to slavery times when "one drop" of AA blood made you AA. I heard that in South america there are many more designations for different ethnic "mixes".

I think a debate over who's had it worse--women or minorities, is unproductive, as both have experience oppression in various forms.

[JTsMom]

What they said, but I also wanted to add that in America, anyone who has a drop of black in them tends to be classified as black. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

And I would have considered it equally historic if a woman were elected- and heard the same thing said many times over on national news stations. I think Dem women would consider it not quite as much of a victory if that woman were Palin though, b/c a lot of us consider her policies anti-woman.

[JTsMom]

Wow, sniped 3X over!

[randomkid]

Also Deleted

[DrSally]

No, what I am saying is that it would be no more historic than having a WOMAN as Vice President. There is this big deal about "Our First Black President", but nothing about "Our First Female VP". It has nothing to do with slave history, etc. It doesn't make sense. He's 50% WHITE as well. It seems as if some blacks want to identify with him, but he wasn't even raised in the same type of environment as many of the blacks who may be voting for him and identifying with him.

I just don't think skin color should determine a president and I don't see how it is so "historic" if he is elected, but it's not a big deal if Palin becomes VP. That's all I'm saying.

I've actually seen a lot of coverage about how Palin being elected would be historic as well. Obama did work in Chicago's South side as a community organizer, which demonstrates his committment to urban black community. That may be a very strong reason blacks want to vote for him. Also, AA's are historically democratics. I don't think it's as simple as same skin color. Although, I do think seeing someone who looks like you "make it" to the highest position in this country must feel trememdously validating and gratifying.

[cdlamis]

IMO, I wasn't sure my parents would live to see the day that a black president was elected but I really thought that we would have a woman president first. So, in my own mind, this will be a truly historical day.

[icunurse]

Also the fact that he is the first black (or 1/2 black if that makes people feel better) candidate on a major ticket. Geraldine Ferraro already broke the ceiling for women to be a VP candidate and it was historic at that time.

So, it is already historic for Obama, it is still up to the polls to see if it can be historic for Palin. In the future, it would be historic for a woman to be a Pres candidate because it hasn't been done before. The next black candidate I doubt will be viewed with as much historic sentiment.

[LarsMal]

It doesn't make sense. He's 50% WHITE as well. .

Tell that to the racist people who won't vote for him BECAUSE he is black!

[kayte]

Per Wikipedia.......
Most African Americans are the descendants of captive Africans who survived the slavery era within the boundaries of the present United States, although some are — or are descended from — voluntary immigrants from Africa, the Caribbean, Central America, South America, or elsewhere.

While the above appears further dow in the definition --it begins with

African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa.[4]


I think that says it all--he certainly does qualify.

[brittone2]

I've seen lots of coverage saying this election will be historic no matter what happens...the first black President or the first woman VP.

I can tell you that I live in the south, on the border of where progressive meets conservative essentially. I've been out canvassing, making phone calls, etc. for Obama. In those instances (on rare occasions), as well as just in hearing everyday conversation at the store (more commonly), I flat out hear people say "they aren't voting for that (insert n-word)." They aren't shy about it, believe me. So while African Americans may be excited about Obama, there are plenty of white people that won't vote for Obama specifically because he's black.

I don't understand what people would like to call his race. It seems like a can't win situation to me, to be honest.

Since he didn't grow up dirt poor, does that matter? Would it be any different symbolically if he was an African American in a more traditional sense of the word if he grew up in an affluent household? Is it only historic if someone is AA but is of higher socioeconomic status? ETA: Only significant if AA and of lower socioecomic status? What counts as enough?

I think it is historic no matter what race we call him. He certainly had opportunities afforded to him, but he certainly has had to contend with challenges because of his racial background, whatever it is labeled. I see and hear the comments in my own backyard of NC.

edited to fix punctuation

[Laurel]

Race is a social construct. Obama is labled African-American because that is how society sees him and how he identifies himself, period.

As for blacks voting based his skin color alone, I find the suggestion both ignorant and offensive (and frankly a little "sour grapes" as well). Democrats generally get 80%-90% of the black vote, of course there is a little extra enthusiasm when such a historical candidate also runs on the ticket whose policies AA's prefer! FWIW, in the 2006 Maryland Senate race black conservative Michael Steele managed only 25% of the black vote.

ps. I think it is also difficult for blacks to vote for someone who opposed making Martin Luther King's birthday a federal holiday.

[malphy]

I could care less what color he is and I can see that both sides have their points.

I think they have never focused on the fact that he is BIRACIAL, instead, strategically probably a benefit to emphasize his "blackness".

But the real question is what does being black mean? Is it just your skin color or are people thinking of "blackness" as poor, urban, hip-hop gangsta? I know growing up in "the hood" if you were not from that environment you weren't truly black. If you lived in a good neighborhood and had money or good education you were considered a sellout.

Obama grew up in Hawaii, he is just as "white" as Mccain.

They are both POLITICIANS, which means they both do/say what is best for them to attain power and push their agendas.

[o_mom]

No, what I am saying is that it would be no more historic than having a WOMAN as Vice President. There is this big deal about "Our First Black President", but nothing about "Our First Female VP". It has nothing to do with slave history, etc. It doesn't make sense. He's 50% WHITE as well. The blacks want to identify with him, but he wasn't even raised in the same type of environment as many of the blacks who are voting for him and identifying with him.

I just don't think skin color should determine a president and I don't see how it is so "historic" if he is elected, but it's not a big deal if Palin becomes VP. That's all I'm saying.

Perhaps you just need to adjust your thinking. All those black voters are able to overcome their preconceived notions and vote for a half white man.

I think, however, what you will find is that all those black voters are able to identify with him in spite of his white mother and privileged upbringing because they know that none of it matters when he tries to hail a cab at night. Racism in this country tends to follow the 'one-drop' rule as PP pointed out.

As for which is more historic? I think either one would be historic, but Palin may be slightly less because Dan Qualye has already set a precedent. :wink2:

[KBecks]

I am 1/16 or 1/32 descendant of a Mississippi freed slave.... I'm not sure how far back the mixing started, but my great grandfather was black and had dark skin and my great grandmother was "black" because she had mixed blood. It's all very confusing.


Obama is identified as black because it is a large voting block. His wife is black, and it works for him to identify as black. Most people would label him black on skin color? I don't know.

One drop does not apply to me, my grandfather moved North and jumped the line, his family is perceived as white. It's not one drop, it's just appearance.

[JTsMom]

Perhaps you just need to adjust your thinking. All those black voters are able to overcome their preconceived notions and vote for a half white man.

I think, however, what you will find is that all those black voters are able to identify with him in spite of his white mother and privileged upbringing because they know that none of it matters when he tries to hail a cab at night. Racism in this country tends to follow the 'one-drop' rule as PP pointed out.

As for which is more historic? I think either one would be historic, but Palin may be slightly less because Dan Qualye has already set a precedent. :wink2:

:bowdown: :bighand:

[KBecks]

No, what I am saying is that it would be no more historic than having a WOMAN as Vice President. There is this big deal about "Our First Black President", but nothing about "Our First Female VP". It has nothing to do with slave history, etc. It doesn't make sense. He's 50% WHITE as well. The blacks want to identify with him, but he wasn't even raised in the same type of environment as many of the blacks who are voting for him and identifying with him.

I just don't think skin color should determine a president and I don't see how it is so "historic" if he is elected, but it's not a big deal if Palin becomes VP. That's all I'm saying.

The spin is there about it being so special so people change votes to Obama to make history, which is IMO garbage. Voting because of skin color ot gender is wrong.

[LarsMal]

What I find interesting is that Obama (from what I have seen/heard) has never focused on being black as a campaigning strategy. Others (media, surrogates, etc.) have pointed it out, but I have never seen a stump speech or anything of the likes where Obama has said, "Vote for me because I am black." He has mentioned it is a "historic" race, both in the primaries and in this race, but I have always felt that he has tried to stay away from his "blackness". Historic for both women and African-Americans.

Whenever he does talk about race, he mentions his white mother and African father. I think he identifies himself as African-American because of the actual color of his skin, but as others have pointed out, he was raised in Hawaii, by white family. I don't think he has tried to sell his race to anyone. Others, yes, but Obama himself, not that I have seen.

If anything, I feel like he has (strategically) put himself out there with more white people (in a lot of the ads I've seen) to try to reach out to white voters who might be hesitant about voting for a black man.

JMO!

[citymama]

It doesn't make sense. He's 50% WHITE as well.

I just don't think skin color should determine a president and I don't see how it is so "historic" if he is elected, but it's not a big deal if Palin becomes VP. That's all I'm saying.

Wow, that is a pretty wild statement. Think about it again for a minute.

I agree, skin color has nothing to do with being a President (or anything else)- but unfortunately, we may say that in theory, but act differently in practice - usually to the disadvantage of the darker-skinned person. 19% of Dem. primary voters in PA acknowledged that they did not vote for Obama because he is black. Whatever white, brown, grey ancestry he may have is not perceived by these voters, or by many people who look at him. They see him as black.

This is true for African Americans all over the country - no matter what other racial backgrounds, people view them as black. And usually, it's not to the advantage - usually it conjures up negative prejudices. Many African Americans also judge light skinned African Americans as not being "black" enough.

I think Colin Powell said it best when he described Obama as a "transformational" candidate - I think of him as someone who transcends typical divisions of race and ethnicity in a way that could be very healing and positive for this country.

[MamaMolly]

I have to disagree. If this were the case Jessie Jackson would have either been president, or would have come a LOT closer, as he is black (or African American, if you prefer) and has run for president.

I also agree with the comment about Ferraro already having BTDT for the female VP nomination so only if McCain/Palin win would it truly be historic, technically speaking.

And just to throw some gasoline on the flame me fire my outrageous bigot of an uncle isn't against Obama because of his skin color, but because my uncle is convinced that Obama is a Muslim. Or so he says. But then this is a man who is not playing with a full deck, and no amount of reasoning or even tangible proof to the contrary would convince him otherwise.

All that to say that there are just as many reasons to vote for a person (skin, looks ~it played a role when Kennedy won!, religion, what ever) as there are to not vote for someone. And I really don't care who you vote for or why...
...just as long as you VOTE!

[Moneypenny]

Obama is identified as black because it is a large voting block. His wife is black, and it works for him to identify as black.

What do you mean by "it works for him to identify as black"?

[ellies mom]

Yeah, I told my black husband this and he feels you are totally full of it. It is pretty offensive that you are clearly voting for McCain because of his policies and position on issues but my husband voted for Obama purely because of the color of his skin. Give me a flippin' break.

[KBecks]

What do you mean by "it works for him to identify as black"?

It is politically advantageous for him to identify as black, to marry a black woman, and to belong to a black mega-church in Chicago. All those things score points with black voters.

I think the person who said that Obama is not positioned as mixed-race is right --- Obama saying he is mixed race is a net negative -- it doesn't score points with whites or blacks, but distances himself from both groups. He identifies as black by his connections in his marriage and in his church selection.

Not that he doesn't love Michelle or his church, but it would be a different picture of him if he married a white person and attended a white mega-church. Would he still be identified as black or as strongly connected to black voters? I doubt it. He chose the community where he would naturally get the most support, which makes a lot of sense. Knowing he may want a political career, or even just choosing the personal path of least resistance, the black community would probably be more comfortable.

Black voters are very loyal to the Democratic party though, so it may not matter much..... but in his earlier career, when he was becoming a known politician and community leader among others within the party, it probably mattered more and it mattered that he self identifies with the black community.

ETA: I think of some comedy skit I saw where people are calling dibs on who's black -- is Tiger Woods black? and they ran down a bunch of people as to who is "black" and who is "white". Kind of funny and stupid but, kind of true.

[ThreeofUs]

I am 1/16 or 1/32 descendant of a Mississippi freed slave.... *snip* It's not one drop, it's just appearance.


I'm 1/16 AmerIndian; this actually qualifies me to be a tribal member, should I wish to claim that part of my ancestry. (I still find that fact amazing.) This is a bit odd, as I would not say I'm Irish (and I'm more Irish than AI by ancestry).

This used to be a social stigma, at the same time that "one drop" of any "colored" blood made someone less socially acceptable (at least in the South).

Now it's just interesting history. I like being a mix of a lot of different types of people. Maybe I could be reincarnated as a calico cat? :)

[LarsMal]

ETA: I think of some comedy skit I saw where people are calling dibs on who's black -- is Tiger Woods black? and they ran down a bunch of people as to who is "black" and who is "white". Kind of funny and stupid but, kind of true.

Tiger Woods is married to a white woman, but I still consider him black (but that is besides the point!). :)

I was just curious if you were suggesting that Obama married Michelle *because* she is black? I think that would be making a pretty big assumption. I haven't read his books, but DH has, and I remember either DH or someone else mentioning that he dated white women as well as black women. I would like to think he married Michelle because he LOVES her and saw a future with her, not just because she is black and would help his political career.

[stella]

While this topic is interesting, I am astounded to see so many people announcing the motivations of people they don't even know.

I can't imagine speaking in such generalizations - and expecting to be taken seriously.

[HannaAddict]

I seriously am not being racist or snarky in any way. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around all this.

Your later posts about black people voting for Obama simply because he's black are a great indicator of your true feelings and motivation for this post.

[lowrioh]

While the above appears further dow in the definition --it begins with

African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa.[4]


I think that says it all--he certainly does qualify.

I think that this is a better "definition" of AA. My DH is a white South African and I doubt that my DD would ever be considered an AA.

[StantonHyde]

The idea that Obama married a black woman and attends a black church because he thought it would benefit his future political career---whoooooaaa Nellie! That is just so offensive to me. OMG.

He married his wife because she is an amazing person. He married his wife because she understands what it is like to live life as a non-white person.

There have always been black and white churches--its just what people are most comfortable with. And I can imagine that as someone with darker skin, Obama would want to be with people who understand that.

And anybody who thinks that having darker skin does not impact how you are treated in this world is kidding themselves. I explained to my son that this election was historic because it was the first time we had an opporunity to elect someone with darker skin. And to my daughter--that a woman made a credible run at the candidacy and that, in her life time, we would elect a female President. (I remember Ferraro so Palin does not have the same historic nature for me)

[citymama]

Listening to NPR right now - one of the commentators (David Brooks I think) said that if Obama is elected, 4 out of 5 of the votes for him will have been cast by white voters. So much for the theory that he is playing up his blackness or that it is politically advantageous to do so. Au contraire, it is a liability with the majority white electorate of the US.

And as the commentator just said, with an African father and a Kansan mom, he literally embodies the term: African-American.

[KBecks]

I'm 1/16 AmerIndian; this actually qualifies me to be a tribal member, should I wish to claim that part of my ancestry. (I still find that fact amazing.) This is a bit odd, as I would not say I'm Irish (and I'm more Irish than AI by ancestry).

This used to be a social stigma, at the same time that "one drop" of any "colored" blood made someone less socially acceptable (at least in the South).

Now it's just interesting history. I like being a mix of a lot of different types of people. Maybe I could be reincarnated as a calico cat? :)

I think it's cool to be a mutt. :)

[Tondi G]

No, what I am saying is that it would be no more historic than having a WOMAN as Vice President. There is this big deal about "Our First Black President", but nothing about "Our First Female VP". It has nothing to do with slave history, etc. It doesn't make sense. He's 50% WHITE as well. The blacks want to identify with him, but he wasn't even raised in the same type of environment as many of the blacks who are voting for him and identifying with him.

I just don't think skin color should determine a president and I don't see how it is so "historic" if he is elected, but it's not a big deal if Palin becomes VP. That's all I'm saying.

It historic because Obama isn't the usual OLD WHITE MAN that our country is used to. I think having a female VP is just as historic.

[Laurel]

Your later posts about black people voting for Obama simply because he's black are a great indicator of your true feelings and motivation for this post.

THIS. Thank you HannaAddict.

[KBecks]

Tiger Woods is married to a white woman, but I still consider him black (but that is besides the point!). :)

I was just curious if you were suggesting that Obama married Michelle *because* she is black? I think that would be making a pretty big assumption. I haven't read his books, but DH has, and I remember either DH or someone else mentioning that he dated white women as well as black women. I would like to think he married Michelle because he LOVES her and saw a future with her, not just because she is black and would help his political career.

I wonder if Obama is viewed as black b/c of Michelle and his church community, I don't think her race is why he married. His association.

I think Woods is viewed more white b/c he is famous in an old white guy sport and married a white person, not for her race either.

I don't really think of race when I see either, although I might notice who they are with.

[vludmilla]

He's 50% WHITE as well. The blacks want to identify with him, but he wasn't even raised in the same type of environment as many of the blacks who are voting for him and identifying with him.


I think you're making some unwarranted assumptions here. I personally know three black/AA people who voted for McCain. One of those individuals lives in a very working class, stereotypically black neighborhood. I

I believe that you are sincere and trying to ask a sincere question but it does seem that your statements reflect a certain bias. I have heard a McCain-Palin win mentioned as historic MANY times on the mainstream media so I don't know why you are saying people are treating it as though it wouldn't be a big deal. Can you cite some facts here about the frequency of the historical reference to Mc-P and O-B?

[tarabenet]

If someone wants to refer to herself as a mutt, particularly in joking self-deprecation, I am OK with that. But to say it about another HUMAN BEING? That is as far out of line as assuming people (of any race) vote based on skin color. ThreeofUs did not call herself a "mutt". And FTR, I, too, qualify for tribal status and do not care to be called a "mutt". I'm an American. Period.



Edited for typos.

[pinkmomagain]

I haven't read through all the posts yet, but I had a very hard time understanding this as well. I posted about it several months ago on this very board and I got some good explanations....basically how the world views skin color and his is obviously black. And when you experience life with that skin color, it very much shapes your identity.

[irie i]

If someone wants to refer to herself as a mutt, particular in joking self-deprecation, I OK with that. But to say it about another HUMANB BEING? That is as far out of line as assuming people (of any race) vote based on skin color. ThreeofUs did not call herself a "mutt". And FTR, I, too, qualify for tribal status and do not care to be called a "mutt". I'm an American. Period.

:yeahthat:

I am shaking my head in disappointment at the use of the word "mutt."

A lot of people are showing their TRUE COLORS in this thread...and I am not at all impressed. I'm very disappointed.

I am carrying a biracial child...and to hear the word "mutt" being thrown around makes me very disgusted at the way people think.

[saschalicks]

Here's an interesting. My mom works w/a WHITE WOMAN who was raised in mid-Africa (I can't remember exactly where) and moved here after college. She is a citizen of the US. She says that when she identifies herself as an African American she is laughed at. However, the truth is she African American. She was raised in Africa and became an American citizen.

I think Obama also embodies the term AA b/c he is both. I think when you are black in color and your heritage is African in some way then yes you are AA regardless of what else you are.

I'm European American. My parents were not born here, but in E. Europe. That is my heritage.

ETC: myself

Just a thought.

[KHF]

And just to throw some gasoline on the flame me fire my outrageous bigot of an uncle isn't against Obama because of his skin color, but because my uncle is convinced that Obama is a Muslim. Or so he says. But then this is a man who is not playing with a full deck, and no amount of reasoning or even tangible proof to the contrary would convince him otherwise.

Yep, I've got a bunch of these people in my family. I have family in a southern KY town that is *very* racist. They call blacks/African-Americans "coloreds" still...when they are feeling generous. It's an embarassment and I call them out on it every chance I get. This election they have seized upon the "Obama's a Muslim" refrain to use as an excuse for not voting for him. Even though anyone that knows them knows exactly why they aren't voting for him.

[MontrealMum]

I am 1/4 Native. While I am proud of my heritage, this is not something that other people (that I do not know in person) would define me as. This is because I do not look visibly, outwardly Native. That does not change my self-identification, but it does change how people might treat me and the assumptions that are made.

Part of being Black, or African-American, is not only self-identification, but how you are perceived by others. Before becoming "famous", don't tell me that people didn't cross the street at night when they saw Obama, a Brown-skinned person, coming towards them. That women didn't consciously or unconsciously tighten their grips on their purses, that people didn't chose a different seat on the bus. Face it, our country is racist. We make judgements and assumptions about people based on their appearance every day. Having a white mother and being raised by white relatives in a white neighborhood isn't something that is tatooed on Obama's forehead when he's in any of those situations.

FWIW, I've never heard him deny his biracial status, but that does not negate him being Black as well. You can't just put someone in the one slot and say, fine, I've categorized them as X. We ALL - as in all of us here - have multiple, changing identities; some involve race, some don't. That's what socially constructed means.

This thread was ostensibly started out of curiousity, but I've found some of the comments here to be quite offensive.

[randomkid]

Another deleted post

[kijip]

Because generally, most (as in nearly all) people do not see my brother for his white mother, they see him for his obvious African American features and skin tone. He was raised in Seattle with 2 white siblings and 2 white parents (his biological father was not in the picture in the least). He is, I assure you, still seen as a black man and experiences discrimination in this country as a part of that perception. More discrimination than I do as a white woman. Just my first hand, lifelong observation. I suppose I should narrow this to most people that we have met, but if I do that, frankly it becomes an ALL. I have never met someone that treated my brother and I the same because we had the same parents. All that matters, sad as that may be, is the differing skin tones.

Same goes for my close high school friend with a white mother, she was raised by two well off lawyers (one white, one black) in a fancy neighborhood and the best schools. Her father became a judge. All of her economic and educational advantages do not make her immune from discrimination.

It does no one any good, period, to decide what would be "more historic", more important (between a minority man or a woman of any race) because it's not a matter of who is first. It is a matter of who gets elected. Regardless of outcome this is a historic election and it means a lot for this country.

[Ceepa]

If someone wants to refer to herself as a mutt, particularly in joking self-deprecation, I am OK with that. But to say it about another HUMAN BEING? That is as far out of line as assuming people (of any race) vote based on skin color. ThreeofUs did not call herself a "mutt". And FTR, I, too, qualify for tribal status and do not care to be called a "mutt". I'm an American. Period.



Edited for typos.

I read it as she was referring to herself as a mutt.

[kijip]

This thread was ostensibly started out of curiousity, but I've found some of the comments here to be quite offensive.

ITA. I can't quite understand disputing the significance of a non-white male person becoming president.

[randomkid]

It does no one any good, period, to decide what would be "more historic", more important (between a minority man or a woman of any race) because it's not a matter of who is first. It is a matter of who gets elected. Regardless of outcome this is a historic election and it means a lot for this country.

Thank you! I don't think either is "more important" than the other. I think that was the point I was trying to make. You just said it much better than I did!

[kijip]

Just because Obama is black, other blacks think he's great even if they don't know his platform. Am I making sense? I'm still really not being argumentative. Just trying to make a point, I guess.

I've heard quotes from women supporting Palin because she is "girly" and a mother. I don't presume to think that that is why all or most or even a sizable percentage of women who are supporting McCain Palin support the GOP ticket. I assume they support Palin because of issues or party affliation. I don't know or see what basis you have for saying that "other blacks think he is great even if they don't know his platform". Frankly, I don't know that any ethinicty of voters is any more or less informed than any others. Certainly there are white voters that know next to nothing about politics and certainly there are minority voters that know next to nothing. But we are all Americans and we all get a vote, regardless of how much or little information or research we have to support our positions.

[kijip]

If you missed the little segment by Howard Stern (I am NOT a fan of his by any means, but he did make a strong point), he had interviewers go into black communities and say Obama believes____ and inserted McCain's views. Then, asked if they were voting for Obama because of these views (which were actually opposite of Obama's views). They still said yes, they were voting Obama. They have no idea what he stands for, all they know is he is black.

If I based my opinions of say, GOP white voters in West Virginia or Eastern Washington, off of parody by partisan talk/shock/infotainment show hosts, I could make a lot of unfavorable generalizations. But I don't. And I really don't think it is fair to take that Stern segment as anything approaching a fair picture of black voters. One, black voters have diverse opinions and motivations for deciding their votes just like voters as a whole and two, it's not like Stern lacks an agenda. Or racism. The man is pretty darn racist IIRC. or perhaps just into to baiting people on race. I seriously, mom to mom, ask you to consider that there is a lot more out there than that Stern story. I am sure you know that.

[1964pandora]

Race is a social construct. Obama is labled African-American because that is how society sees him and how he identifies himself, period.


Yes, I agree that this is the answer to the OP's question!

Susan

[1964pandora]

removed quote

This is easily disproven by the fact that Blacks voted for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama in the early primaries. (Someone help me out with when Barack Obama finally started carrying the Black vote in the primaries. If I remember correctly, she carried the Black vote for a long while.) If Blacks are voting for him BECAUSE he's black, they would obviously have always supported Obama over Clinton.

ETA: Oh, and Black people aren't a monolithic voting group, for chrissakes. I'm sure that there are Black people who voted for John McCain!

Susan

[irie i]

OK, I started this thread saying I'm not being snarky and every post you have posted has been hateful and argumentative. I posted this to get the viewpoint of other educated women, many of whom are Obama supporters *and* women.

If you missed the little segment by Howard Stern (I am NOT a fan of his by any means, but he did make a strong point), he had interviewers go into black communities and say Obama believes____ and inserted McCain's views. Then, asked if they were voting for Obama because of these views (which were actually opposite of Obama's views). They still said yes, they were voting Obama. They have no idea what he stands for, all they know is he is black.

Be offended all you want, but it's the fact. I didn't write that to be offensive. I know it goes the other way as well. I'm not saying either way is right, but you don't have to be so attacking about it. I can guarantee you that if you ask some black people why they are voting for him, they will tell you that it's BECAUSE he is black. Don't yell at me. Besides, I didn't say ALL, I said SOME.

You are not a fan of Howard Stern yet you will cite him and his disgusting show in order to support your views. How convenient. I can easily say the same for the people who are voting for McCain because Obama is Black, or he is "muslim" or "an arab" or any of the other idiotic excuses people have used.

Stating that you weren't trying to be snarky and then following up that comment with some of the things you have said and the assumptions you have made negates the initial comment.

[irie i]

If I based my opinions of say, GOP white voters in West Virginia or Eastern Washington, off of parody by partisan talk/shock/infotainment show hosts, I could make a lot of unfavorable generalizations. But I don't. And I really don't think it is fair to take that Stern segment as anything approaching a fair picture of black voters. One, black voters have diverse opinions and motivations for deciding their votes just like voters as a whole and two, it's not like Stern lacks an agenda. Or racism. The man is pretty darn racist IIRC. or perhaps just into to baiting people on race. I seriously, mom to mom, ask you to consider that there is a lot more out there than that Stern story. I am sure you know that.

True...it isn't like the shock jock is going to SEEK OUT the opinions of intelligent, responsible voters. That isn't going to make any waves and get any attention. Duh.

[ThreeofUs]

I think it's cool to be a mutt. :)

Absolutely! At last count, I think I could claim 8 nationalities and 2-3 races, depending on the truth of family stories. I think it's great - and really funny - that if I judge folks on race/ethnicity/national origin, I'm chewing on myself.

But that's just me. :)

Disclaimer: This thread is kinda tense. Hope y'all will please excuse any perceived offensiveness - this is all typed in good fun, and not meant to tread on anyone's sensibilities.

[KBecks]

If someone wants to refer to herself as a mutt, particularly in joking self-deprecation, I am OK with that. But to say it about another HUMAN BEING? That is as far out of line as assuming people (of any race) vote based on skin color. ThreeofUs did not call herself a "mutt". And FTR, I, too, qualify for tribal status and do not care to be called a "mutt". I'm an American. Period.



Edited for typos.


I think of myself as a mutt. Threeofus said something about a calico cat, and that's where I felt it was OK to add in the canine term mutt.

No offense to cat lovers!

[brittone2]

I also would like to point out that Barack Obama has said numerous times that he doesn't think his daughters should receive the benefits of affirmative action, etc. since they were raised in a privledged environment. He has pointed out in speeches in the past that he feels socioeconomic status should be taken into consideration over race.

As far as black voters saying they believe certain positions which are actually consistent w/ J. McCain's platform, I think that has occurred on both sides. Many people I've talked to while canvassing did the reverse. They believe in certain policies that are more consistent with Obama's platform but they are supporting McCain.

As a PP said, African Americans have historically turned out in much greater numbers toward the Democrats, and those have historically been all white men, obviously. This time there is greater enthusiasm, but I think that there are also tougher economic times, etc. that have caused people to rally around the Dem candidate. In any case, I'm all for voices being heard. If African Americans feel compelled to turn out for Barack obama based on his platform, history, or a combination....well, I'm glad their voices *will* be heard this time.

I also think that in the future, African Americans may be more likely to turn out period, regardless of a candidate's race. Getting registered and voting for the 1st time are huge obstacles to overcome for many people. While the turnout in future elections may not be *this* enthusiastic, I would bet we'll see more voter activity in coming elections because of the increased registration and people having the experience of going to the polls at least once already. Total speculation, but that's my hunch.

[mudder17]

This thread was disintegrating pretty quickly, so we removed it for
review. We have since edited and are returning it in hopes that you
will all respect each others' opinions. The OP would like to
apologize for offending anyone.

Thank you,
The BBB Mods
Eileen, Karoly, and Missy

[brittone2]

One thing I wanted to raise...

for those who feel African Americans "only voted for Obama because he's black"...what do you make of the Latino vote?

Latinos went for Obama by a 2:1 margin overall IIRC.

[JTsMom]

One other thought I want to add-

I'm sure there are black voters who chose Obama b/c he is "like them". How is this any different than the Republican voters who were encouraged to vote McCain/Palin b/c McCain was the kind of guy you'd want to have a beer with, or b/c Palin was a hockey mom, just like them? Don't even get me started on Joe the Plumber!

And that wasn't something those voters came up with on their own, it was something the campaign actively encouraged.

[brittone2]

One other thought I want to add-

I'm sure there are black voters who chose Obama b/c he is "like them". How is this any different than the Republican voters who were encouraged to vote McCain/Palin b/c McCain was the kind of guy you'd want to have a beer with, or b/c Palin was a hockey mom, just like them? Don't even get me started on Joe the Plumber!

And that wasn't something those voters came up with on their own, it was something the campaign actively encouraged.
Yep. DH and I were talking about this last night. There's a long list of reasons why people vote for a given candidate. While many of us would like to see people focus on a candidate's positions, it isn't anything new in politics for people to vote for someone for any number of other reasons. I remember seeing interviews with independents in MN who liked that Sarah Palin and her husband rode snowmobiles. The list is long with respect to the reasons people vote for a particular candidate. Some of it is more substantive, some of it is less substantive. But it isn't something new in politics to vote for someone they feel they can relate to based on the candidate's personal story.

[bluestarfish18]

I was thinking about this topic all morning. I'm 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 Caucasian. What does that make me? I identify with both races, but I don't call myself either one. Besides, from my dad's caucasian side, he's not straight Scottish, he's also Irish, English, French, German, he's a total mix too...so doesn't that make most of the caucasians in this country mixed as well?

I loathe forms that require me to choose between the two races, and don't give the option of "mix" or "multicultural" or even "other/none".

Let's be realistic, with the way our country, and the world for that matter, is changing so rapidly, by the time our kids have kids, I truly believe almost everyone in our country will be mixed with two dynamically different races.

[almostmom]

This is historic because it was not long ago that blacks had to go to separate schools, had crosses burned on their lawns, had to use different bathrooms, water fountains, etc. And it was not very long ago that blacks were slaves in this country. And many people, as a PP said, judge somebody's race by the color of their skin, and Barack Obama, I'm sure, has been treated like a black boy/man for his whole life. He is showing the African Americans of this country that they can rise to the highest office in the country, that they can be responsible dads and taken seriously, and that their voice is respected and matters. This is no small step that we have taken in a relatively short time, and it brings tears to my eyes. Is it why I voted for him? Hell no! I'm INSPIRED by his desire and ability to bring us all together, to lead with a brain and a vision, and to make this country and our world a safer place for me and my children. To lead with a positive message, to not take money from lobbyists (!) and to not instill fear!
Will it be historic when there is a woman as VP or president? You bet! I'm excited for that day. But right now, I'm excited that Barack Obama ran for this office, is now going to be president, and that a black man is going to be living in the white house. I am moved by this fact.

And just curious, how many black ancestors does one need to have to be called black anyway? This is an issue in many Native American tribes, where the color of one's skin does not illustrate one's belonging. It can be very decisive, and for what purpose? If one feels he or she belongs to a group, that is enough for me.

[C99]

I think it's self-identification. He clearly identifies as black. I don't think you have to grow up in the inner city to be "truly" black. Are you kidding? He's black because his skin is black.

It makes sense to me that a black president would be elected before a women since, as you say, black men got the vote before women did in this country.

[maestramommy]

Obama grew up in Hawaii, he is just as "white" as Mccain.

I find this statement rather odd, since pure whites are a minority in Hawaii. Hawaii is filled with Asians and multiracial people.


Because he has dark skin? His Mother was white, his Father black (Kenyan). That makes him just as much white as it does black, correct? It's purely a dominant gene that gave him dark skin.

He grew up in Hawaii, not in an urban black neighborhood.
I find this type of comment particularly disheartening. Are you saying that since he didn't grow up in an urban black neighborhood (like in Harlem?), he's not truly black? That makes it sound like true blacks belong in urban (usually poor) neighborhoods. There is a growing group of middle class African Americans that have been around since I was a kid.

One other thing. It is very hard for someone who is not of color to understand that "a dominant gene" defines us, whether we like it or not. And for African Americans, it is with them to this very day. What separates Obama from other black presidential hopefuls (like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) is that their voice has (to me) always been a divisive voice, where Obama's was a voice a unity. He was able to relate to the angry black man, but he refused to BE the angry black man. If you haven't already, listen to his historic speech on race in Philadelphia. That was the first time I heard him speak and that was when I decided to vote for him.

[katydid1971]

This is historic because it was not long ago that blacks had to go to separate schools, had crosses burned on their lawns, had to use different bathrooms, water fountains, etc. And it was not very long ago that blacks were slaves in this country. And many people, as a PP said, judge somebody's race by the color of their skin, and Barack Obama, I'm sure, has been treated like a black boy/man for his whole life. He is showing the African Americans of this country that they can rise to the highest office in the country, that they can be responsible dads and taken seriously, and that their voice is respected and matters. This is no small step that we have taken in a relatively short time, and it brings tears to my eyes. Is it why I voted for him? Hell no! I'm INSPIRED by his desire and ability to bring us all together, to lead with a brain and a vision, and to make this country and our world a safer place for me and my children. To lead with a positive message, to not take money from lobbyists (!) and to not instill fear!
Will it be historic when there is a woman as VP or president? You bet! I'm excited for that day. But right now, I'm excited that Barack Obama ran for this office, is now going to be president, and that a black man is going to be living in the white house. I am moved by this fact.

And just curious, how many black ancestors does one need to have to be called black anyway? This is an issue in many Native American tribes, where the color of one's skin does not illustrate one's belonging. It can be very decisive, and for what purpose? If one feels he or she belongs to a group, that is enough for me.

Well said!!!!!!!

[tnrnchick74]

I don't vote based on gender, race, or religion. I vote and will continue to vote the issues and platforms - no matter the candidate. I think EACH president has been historic in his own right!

[dcmom2b3]

Who's black/AA? Me, my cousin, my daughter, or Barak Obama?

BO: Kenyan father 50%, white mother 50%
Me: Specific genetic makeup unknown -- probably not much more than 50% African genes, given generations of miscegenation.
Cousin: 50% white genes, 50% "black/unknown" genes like mine
My Daughter: 50% my black/unknown genes, 50% French

BO: Self-identifies as black/AA with acknowledgement of his biracial bkgrnd
Me: Self-identifies as black/AA with acknowledgment of unknown make-up
Cousin: Self-identifies as white, with only recent knowledge/acknowledgement of AA ancestry
My Daughter: Unknown -- hopefully AA and French -- but ultimately up to her

BO: Looks "Black" -- medium brown skin, closely curled hair, prominent nose and lips
Me: Looks "Black" in the same way as BO, except for when waist-length hair is worn straightened (then assumed to be Samoan, esp. on the west coast have never been to Hawaii, but would suppose a similar reaction there)
Cousin: Looks white-- Blue eyes, straight black hair, fairer than my white husband
My Daughter: Brown eyes, straight brown hair, fair skinned, looks white.

BO: private/Ivy education, plays basketball
Me: private/Ivy education, played lacrosse and field hockey
Cousin: private/Ivy education, plays tennis
My Daughter: N/A.

BO: attends baptist church, married a black woman, Democrat.
Me: part of a family of die-hard Episcopalians extending back to Emancipation, married a white man, registered Independent.
Cousin: part of a family of die-hard Episcopalians extending back to Emancipation, married a white woman, Republican.
My Daughter: part of a family of die-hard Episcopalians extending back to Emancipation, unmarried, too young to vote.

BO: Raised in Hawaii by white g-parents.
Me: Raised in mid-Atlantic rural setting by AA parents.
Cousin: Raised in New England suburban setting by one parent passing (hate that word, sorry) as white and white mother.
My daughter: raised in urban inner city setting by one culturally black parent, one culturally white/French.


In some respects, Obama is more "typically black" than I am, even though his white ancestors are more proximate than mine. In some respects he's less, and in others more, "typically black" than my biracial daughter and self-identified white cousin. I could go on, but won't belabor it any further.

You can choose a single point of comparison (or even a handful), and argue for or against anyone's claim to "authentic" AA status -- it's a waste of breath. You can assume others' motivations, and states of mind, and suppose their procivities to little avail. Racial identity is way more complex than that, esp. as it relates to being AA in the United States.

Oh, FTR Howard Stern is not a journalist. He's an entertainer. Whose target audience consists of folks who like to watch him persuade women to flash their t*ts, and conduct themselves in other similarly ridiculous ways. Repeat, not a journalist, not news, rather "Girls Gone Wild." Grains (pounds?) of salt necessary.

[brittone2]

Who's black/AA? Me, my cousin, my daughter, or Barak Obama?

BO: Kenyan father 50%, white mother 50%
Me: Specific genetic makeup unknown -- probably not much more than 50% African genes, given generations of miscegenation.
Cousin: 50% white genes, 50% "black/unknown" genes like mine
My Daughter: 50% my black/unknown genes, 50% French

BO: Self-identifies as black/AA with acknowledgement of his biracial bkgrnd
Me: Self-identifies as black/AA with acknowledgment of unknown make-up
Cousin: Self-identifies as white, with only recent knowledge/acknowledgement of AA ancestry
My Daughter: Unknown -- hopefully AA and French -- but ultimately up to her

BO: Looks "Black" -- medium brown skin, closely curled hair, prominent nose and lips
Me: Looks "Black" in the same way as BO, except for when waist-length hair is worn straightened (then assumed to be Samoan, esp. on the west coast have never been to Hawaii, but would suppose a similar reaction there)
Cousin: Looks white-- Blue eyes, straight black hair, fairer than my white husband
My Daughter: Brown eyes, straight brown hair, fair skinned, looks white.

BO: private/Ivy education, plays basketball
Me: private/Ivy education, played lacrosse and field hockey
Cousin: private/Ivy education, plays tennis
My Daughter: N/A.

BO: attends baptist church, married a black woman, Democrat.
Me: part of a family of die-hard Episcopalians extending back to Emancipation, married a white man, registered Independent.
Cousin: part of a family of die-hard Episcopalians extending back to Emancipation, married a white woman, Republican.
My Daughter: part of a family of die-hard Episcopalians extending back to Emancipation, unmarried, too young to vote.

BO: Raised in Hawaii by white g-parents.
Me: Raised in mid-Atlantic rural setting by AA parents.
Cousin: Raised in New England suburban setting by one parent passing (hate that word, sorry) as white and white mother.
My daughter: raised in urban inner city setting by one culturally black parent, one culturally white/French.


In some respects, Obama is more "typically black" than I am, even though his white ancestors are more proximate than mine. In some respects he's less, and in others more, "typically black" than my biracial daughter and self-identified white cousin. I could go on, but won't belabor it any further.

You can choose a single point of comparison (or even a handful), and argue for or against anyone's claim to "authentic" AA status -- it's a waste of breath. You can assume others' motivations, and states of mind, and suppose their procivities to little avail. Racial identity is way more complex than that, esp. as it relates to being AA in the United States.

Oh, FTR Howard Stern is not a journalist. He's an entertainer. Whose target audience consists of folks who like to watch him persuade women to flash their t*ts, and conduct themselves in other similarly ridiculous ways. Repeat, not a journalist, not news, rather "Girls Gone Wild." Grains (pounds?) of salt necessary.

That was extremely powerful and poignant.

As a woman of caucasian heritage, I can't imagine feeling even remotely okay with trying to dictate how others should define their ethnicity. You expressed this in such a powerful way.

[ha98ed14]

Because he has dark skin? His Mother was white, his Father black (Kenyan). That makes him just as much white as it does black, correct? It's purely a dominant gene that gave him dark skin.

He grew up in Hawaii, not in an urban black neighborhood. I just don't get it. Why is it so historic if he is elected? IMO, it is no more historic than if we had our first female VP. Women have been oppressed and treated horribly in history. It was 50 years AFTER blacks earned the right to vote before women were given that same right.

I seriously am not being racist or snarky in any way. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around all this.

Well, first, I would say that Pres.-Elect Obama PERFECTLY ilustrates the description "African American." His father was from Kenya in Africa, and his mother was American, and he was born in America. What is he if he is not "African American"? I guess you could say "Kenyan American" but since Kenya is in Africa, I think the label "African American" describes his heritage perfectly.

Second, there is NO WAY that we can accurately answer the question: "Who has suffered more descrimination, the decendants of African slaves and people of African heritage OR women?" (What about the people who are both? Have they suffered the most?) There is just no way to accurately describe the experience of an entire class of people based based solely on their race/ ethnicity or their gender because every person in an individual and all of our experiences are different. Not all black women have the same experiences, nor do all white women, nor black men.

This presidential race was historic for many reasons: for the first serious presidential campaign run by a woman (Hillary), for the nomination of a woman for VP (although this happened before on the Mondale-Ferraro D Ticket in the 1980s) and because the first person of color was elected President of the United States. All of these are landmarks in the evolution in our civic society's concepts of "Who can lead America?" I am grateful for all of them.

[ha98ed14]

Because he has dark skin? His Mother was white, his Father black (Kenyan). That makes him just as much white as it does black, correct? It's purely a dominant gene that gave him dark skin.

I am not African American, but to my understanding, bi-racial and/ or multi-racial people are often identified with the race or group that is most evident in their appearance and life experiences. Yes, Obama's mother was white, but when people look at him, they see a black man. (This issue also surfaced when Tiger Woods was much in media. His mother is Thai I believe, but when people look at him, the first impression is of someone who is black, not Asian.) This matters because while individuals of multi-race and multi-culture "have feet in two worlds," the outside world will often treat them as members of the group into which they are most easily placed based on appearance or persona. It is not necessarily good, but it is true.

[ha98ed14]

That was extremely powerful and poignant.

As a woman of caucasian heritage, I can't imagine feeling even remotely okay with trying to dictate how others should define their ethnicity. You expressed this in such a powerful way.

To dcmom2b3 and brittone: ITA. As a person of mixed-heritage (Russian Jewish and Mayflower WASP) I do not want anyone to define for ME what I am.

[ha98ed14]

I think, however, what you will find is that all those black voters are able to identify with him in spite of his white mother and privileged upbringing because they know that none of it matters when he tries to hail a cab at night.

YES! This.

[ha98ed14]

I am 1/4 Native. While I am proud of my heritage, this is not something that other people (that I do not know in person) would define me as. This is because I do not look visibly, outwardly Native. That does not change my self-identification, but it does change how people might treat me and the assumptions that are made.

Part of being Black, or African-American, is not only self-identification, but how you are perceived by others. Before becoming "famous", don't tell me that people didn't cross the street at night when they saw Obama, a Brown-skinned person, coming towards them. That women didn't consciously or unconsciously tighten their grips on their purses, that people didn't chose a different seat on the bus. Face it, our country is racist. We make judgements and assumptions about people based on their appearance every day. Having a white mother and being raised by white relatives in a white neighborhood isn't something that is tatooed on Obama's forehead when he's in any of those situations.

FWIW, I've never heard him deny his biracial status, but that does not negate him being Black as well. You can't just put someone in the one slot and say, fine, I've categorized them as X. We ALL - as in all of us here - have multiple, changing identities; some involve race, some don't. That's what socially constructed means.

I am so impressed by this articulation. We as indivudals do constuct our own identities, but they may or may not be the same indenty that the outside world assigns us.

[ha98ed14]

No, what I am saying is that it would be no more historic than having a WOMAN as Vice President. There is this big deal about "Our First Black President", but nothing about "Our First Female VP".

For the record: Governor Palin is NOT the first woman to be nominated for VP on a major party ticket. Walter Mondale chose Geraldine Ferraro as his running mate for the D ticket in the 1980s. (1984, I think.)

[Globetrotter]

He LOOKS like a black man and therefore has had to overcome more hurdles to get where he is in a "white" world. Of course it is historic!

I've read articles about black/white biracial kids who tend to identify more with their black heritage as they do not pass for white!

Kris

[Georgia]

Because politely explaining his complex ancestry to a busdriver in pre- civil rights Alabama would not have allowed him to keep his seat near the front of the bus. And explaining his ancestry to the police officer who would have then arrested him would not have kept him out of jail. And because explaining his ancestry to a judge would not have kept him from getting fined.

[mamica]

They are both POLITICIANS, which means they both do/say what is best for them to attain power and push their agendas.


EXACTLY!!!!!!

[KBecks]

I don't vote based on gender, race, or religion. I vote and will continue to vote the issues and platforms - no matter the candidate. I think EACH president has been historic in his own right!

Hey, nice pic of Parker!

[C99]

Deleted. This thread turned into something that I did not intend. I feel I have been attacked and all but called a racist. I do not want my words quoted and misconstrued any longer. I was approached to edit part of a post as some found it offensive. I have been VERY offended by many of the responses here and feel I am justified in deleting my post.

I feel that your implying that only inner-city raised black people (and by that I take it you mean "poor, stereotypical, 'scary' gang-banger black people") are "true" blacks is racist.

[dcmom2b3]

Deleted. This thread turned into something that I did not intend. I feel I have been attacked and all but called a racist. I do not want my words quoted and misconstrued any longer. I was approached to edit part of a post as some found it offensive. I have been VERY offended by many of the responses here and feel I am justified in deleting my post.

Randomkid, I'm sorry that you feel that way, certainly it was never my intention to make anyone uncomfortable, including you. You're certainly within your rights to take down your OP for any reason you choose.

But, I will say this: in my experience, when reactions of discomfort or offense are directed at me or something I've said, it's usually an opportunity for me to learn something, if I open myself to it. Perhaps once your feelings have settled down a bit, you might reflect on the responses in this thread with a less defensive eye. Again with no offense intended, some of your statements (as I recall them) did seem a bit naive, at best.

[tnrnchick74]

Hey, nice pic of Parker!

Thanks! We just had holiday pics taken as well!

[Rainbows&Roses]

I feel that your implying that only inner-city raised black people (and by that I take it you mean "poor, stereotypical, 'scary' gang-banger black people") are "true" blacks is racist.

Yes!

I have just been watching Nightline and they did a segment on the reaction of the black population across the country to this historic election result. It was so touching and yesterday was truly a day of of mammoth proportions for them and for anyone sympathetic to their struggles. I knew it would be, but had no idea how potentially healing this victory could be.

The fact that people in this country are putting Barack's "blackness" into question or saying that he was exploiting his heritage for political purposes is despicable IMO. Thank goodness so many voters in this country were able to look beyond skin color.

[ha98ed14]

Randomkid, I'm sorry that you feel that way, certainly it was never my intention to make anyone uncomfortable, including you. You're certainly within your rights to take down your OP for any reason you choose.

But, I will say this: in my experience, when reactions of discomfort or offense are directed at me or something I've said, it's usually an opportunity for me to learn something, if I open myself to it. Perhaps once your feelings have settled down a bit, you might reflect on the responses in this thread with a less defensive eye. Again with no offense intended, some of your statements (as I recall them) did seem a bit naive, at best.

I too am sorry that you feel that you were attacked. If what I said offended you, I do apologize. Your questions never appeared to me to be motivated by racist ideas or hate, but I agree with dcmom2b3 that they were naive. While I can only speak for myself, I believe that my and many of the other responses were coming from a place of wanting to provide you with information and persepctives that you may not have been exposed to, as evidenced by your questions. I hope you find a safe person or persons with whom to continue your dialogue. It is an important one to have.

[randomkid]

I feel that your implying that only inner-city raised black people (and by that I take it you mean "poor, stereotypical, 'scary' gang-banger black people") are "true" blacks is racist.

That's because you all have chosen to put your own little spin on everything I had to say. I will no longer try to explain myself. Maybe I didn't word things in the best way to convey what I was asking. I NEVER said those words that you posted above!!!!!

You presume to know me and what I am all about. You have no idea what my life and upbringing were like, who I associated with growing up and who I associate with now.

Honestly, I am quite pissed off about this. The mods asked me to edit a post because people were offended by it. However, it is perfectly fine for everyone here to attack me, change what I've said, continue to reply to a post I deleted and basically offend the hell out of me.

All the liberal democratic Obama supporters here can say whatever they want. If someone disagrees, they are attacked by many. I'm over it. I can't stand to spend any more time here as I'm sure if Obama totally screws up and turns out to have misrepresented himself, you all will come up with excuses for him. You will never admit it. I hope that doesn't happen because Obama being successful will only be good for all of us.
I am sad to say that I am done, D - O - N - E with these boards!

Now, flame away!!!!! Oh yeah, and I feel totally baited - all of these things go against board policy, but that doesn't matter, does it?

[randomkid]

I too am sorry that you feel that you were attacked. If what I said offended you, I do apologize. Your questions never appeared to me to be motivated by racist ideas or hate, but I agree with dcmom2b3 that they were naive. While I can only speak for myself, I believe that my and many of the other responses were coming from a place of wanting to provide you with information and persepctives that you may not have been exposed to, as evidenced by your questions. I hope you find a safe person or persons with whom to continue your dialogue. It is an important one to have.

Because obviously it is not safe here. It is supposed to be, but it's not. I am not naive. I think I am totally the opposite. I grew up in an area populated by blacks. When I was 12yo, we moved to a bigger home in a nicer area. The school I went to was predominantly white. At the end of my first year there, they closed the school and I was bused back to my former neighborhood. I was thrilled! I got to go back and be where I was comfortable with all my friends.

Have I crossed the street or become nervous when seeing a black person in an isolated area? Yes, but I do not discriminate. I get nervous no matter what the person looks like. White, black, asian, male, female, whatever. It's called protecting yourself. I don't presume to think that only black people can be harmful (as was mentioned in another post here). I assume that any person at any time could harm DD or myself.

I may be defensive, but I don't feel like I need to LEARN something here. Maybe it's less historic to me that a black man became President because I DO view them as equal. I know that they have been mistreated, but *I* have never done that and have always treated people of any color as equals and friends. I live in FL for crying out loud. There are people here from all over the world. I work with people who are black, from India, the Phillipines, Puerto Rico, Honduras, and countless other countries.

You all know NOTHING about me. I may have worded my posts incorrectly and for that, I apologize. However, instead of taking the time to try and understand what I was asking or saying, I was strongly attacked. THAT is completely unfair and naive.

[C99]

I NEVER said those words that you posted above!!!!!


You questioned Obama's race and said that he was not raised in the inner city in the same paragraph. If it wasn't your intention to make that connection or make race an issue, I feel sorry that you weren't able to proofread your post to ensure that it didn't.

[karolyp]

This thread has gotten progressively worse and the mods feel it's best to lock it and move on. If you have any issue with this, please contact one of us.

Thanks
Karoly, Eileen, and Missy