Abuse, police, and DH's BF

[MontrealMum]

I hesitated to post this here, but I couldn't sleep at all last night I am so worried. This is a long, potentially scary story, so be warned.

DH's friend P has been married to C for about 10 mos. They have a 3 mo.old LO. Although they live here, we don't see them tons as kids, work, etc keep us all busy, and they live on the other side of the city. DH last saw them about a month ago, and talked to P maybe 2 wks. ago, and said that P sounded sad. DH began to call more, in order to reach out, because he and I know all too well how bad those days of coping with a newborn can be (we had a very rocky first year).

P finally called back last night to say that C has been abusing him - leaving bruises on him with hitting, kicking, acting strangely, and throwing things etc., and that he thinks she has borderline personality disorder. He's an MD, but not a psych. After things came to a head, her brother, also a doc, agreed with this conclusion. P did not call the police on her for any of the instances of abuse, I'm thinking because he's a guy, and he thought it might 'get better'. The worrying thing of course is that she's the SAHM, and he works crazy Dr. hours.

Here's where the story gets scary though, C called the police on him, and they took him away in handcuffs and he spent the night in jail. He has a trial date in Jan.

My first instinct would be to urge him to take the baby and leave, except he now has a criminal record and if she protested wouldn't the baby be taken either back to her or by CPS? He's got tons of great supportive family, a SIL that's a lawyer, and plenty of places to go to, and people to help out with interim childcare if that is needed. His support network is huge. But how to get her to seek help? She has a list of names to contact but won't make the call. How to get the baby away from her and into a safe situation?

I am asking mostly for psychological or legal advice, because I don't want us to urge him to do something that will get him into further trouble. He's been told by his lawyer not to go back to live in their shared home, but he did because he didn't want to leave DC alone with C. Her mother may or may not be helping out during the daytime at least. All this is incredibly garbled and disjointed, but as an example, she's been known to take DC out in the car without a carseat. P came home and the bucket was in the hallway still. Or to chase P down in the car when he's walking the baby and demand that he give baby to her - no carseat - because they have to go somewhere.

Obviously, looking back, he should have called the authorities, at least he has photos of his bruises, but there's not much he can do about that now. He's a huge guy and outweighs her by at least 100 pounds. Most people, looking at them would not believe that it was her doing the abusing - but having known him for a long time, you have to trust me that he would never hurt anyone. I am just so scared and worried.

[dcmom2b3]

Molly, I'm going to need time to collect my thoughts, but wanted to post asap to let you know -- this is how things started with my late DH.

I never got carted off, (luck mostly) and that's a wrinkle that I'll have to think about, but off the cuff, if he's back in the house after the arrest (did I understand you correctly on that one?) then the charges weren't so bad as to mandate a stay-away order. Assuming some parity between US laws and those of Canada, of course.

He needs excellent representation both in the Jan trial date and family court. IMO he *must* leave and seek an emergency custody order. Or involuntary committment. If she's abusive to him it's just a minute before that spills over to the baby -- if it hasn't already. He should consider having the baby checked out thoroughly. But again, that's just off the top of my head.

I hate to say it, but I fear that this will not have a happy ending.

Hugs to you, you're a great friend. More later, after DD is in bed.

[MontrealMum]

Thank you so much for responding, Mary-Helen, I know things have to still be in upheaval for you right now.

This is what was keeping me up, that there is likely no happy ending. He did stay away from the house for a bit, and took his sister (as a non-threatening person) with him to get some stuff when he was gone, but decided that he couldn't leave DC there alone, so he went back and is now living in their home. Obviously, he's torn between doing what's right for him and DC, and still caring for C. I cannot imagine what he's going through, but he's turned to DH for a listening ear, so I'm hoping any suggestions DH makes, he'll seriously consider. I am quite worried about the criminal trial aspect, although I'm betting he has good representation - his SIL is a partner in a well-respected firm here - I'm sure she's given him the name of someone good. I also worry about the baby and potential abuse there since she's the primary caregiver, and until recently, noone was really watching over her shoulder.

[bubbaray]

ITA with MH on this. He needs to leave and seek interim custody. IMO, it is unlikely he will get custody, now or ever, though. He has a pretty tough road ahead.

Technically, right now he does not have a criminal record. If I read your post correctly, he has not yet gone to trial, so as of yet, he is charged, but not convicted (and presumed innocent) of anything. If he is going to go for custody, now is the time to do it IMO.

[dcmom2b3]

OK, can you tell this has struck a chord with me? I can't stop thinking about this. So, DD's parked in front of Yo Gabba Gabba, and I'm back for the moment.

Not to be short (b/c trust me, I know how he feels about wanting to care for his wife and maintain their family as "normally" as possible) but he needs to be worried about himself and DC *ONLY* right now. Once DC is safe, and a safe person has custody, then he can worry about his wife. If she truly is not well, she's not going to respond to reason. So he can't act as though she would.

He should be prepared: she likely will decompensate, if she's really BPD. He can't let that sway him. My one regret with my DH (and I still use that "D" to mean dear) is that I didn't leave sooner, before he REALLY unravelled. If I had, maybe there still would have been time to get him help while DD and I were safe. If your friend and their DC are still in that house with her, he's going to be so worried about managing day to day, minute to minute that he won't be able to think clearly enough to help *any* of them. He and the baby need to leave now. Regardless of the arrest, right now he has equal right to custody of that child. He can take him/her wherever he wants, whenever. He should leave, right now. Right now. The longer he stays, it could be argued, the less serious his concern for the child really is. Get my drift? Right now.

After he leaves, he can file for emergency custody. Remember the test of King Solomon? The woman who was willing to give up her child rather than see it die was adjudged the true parent. If your friend's arrest and/or work schedule would prevent him from being the preferred parent, he should recruit another family member from that support network as an alternative custodian, and go into family court saying "look, here's the deal, you can choose me, or family member X, or even foster care, but not my DW. She endangers our child." It's also pretty powerful IMO, that her own brother is willing to look at her behavior as being abnormal.

Upon a little further thought, could it be post-partum psychosis? Even arguably? The facts sound like they would support that assertion pretty compellingly. And PPP has a more urgent and, pardon the slang, "sexier" slant to it -- I bet it would get a judge's attention faster than asserted BPD (which is notoriously difficult to diagnose and which lots of folks manage to live with just fine. But others, like my DH, not so much).

Actually, the diagnosis doesn't matter -- the fact is that she is unbalanced and she endangers their child. That car seat thing has me freaked out. Bet it would freak out a family ct judge, too.

If the emergency custody route doesn't work, I'd give serious consideration to calling CPS *myself.* This is a reaction partially born of my recent experience as well as my legal bkgrnd, it's sort of a scorched earth approach, but again, the true parent will do anything that's legal to protect the child. That's his mantra -- "protect the child."

OK, that's my brain-dump for now. Sorry it's a little manic, but you understand, I'm sure.

More hugs to you.

[bubbaray]

Another big :yeahthat: -- I should be unloading groceries into the fridge right now.

Maybe he could try to get her committed for PPP? Likely Quebec has a 72 hr hold rule. His BIL will know about that.

I wouldn't count on the BIL supporting him through this, family members often "fold" and end up supporting their blood relatives, KWIM?

He needs to be careful about this. It could impact upon his ability to practice medicine too.

[dcmom2b3]

Technically, right now he does not have a criminal record. If I read your post correctly, he has not yet gone to trial, so as of yet, he is charged, but not convicted (and presumed innocent) of anything. If he is going to go for custody, now is the time to do it IMO.

:yeahthat: [Melissa and Mary-Helen in bi-costal North American mind meld]

Molly, it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but here in DC, domestic charges (convictions, even) at worst only serve to rebut the presumption of joint physical and legal custody that pertains in ordinary custody cases. This wouldn't be ordinary, KWIM? His lawyers can help him more with this, and if appropriate, they'll bring together the (presumed) absence of any injuries to her, the difference in their respective sizes, her mental health issues, his documented injuries, etc. to paint a clear picture. No guarantee, but he can't let that scare him, IMO.

And another thought: he needs to start documenting her behaviour in a log kept place where she won't find/destroy it. At the office, maybe?

[MontrealMum]

Thanks for articulating everything that's going through my frazzled brain, but with the legal expertise to back it up. I am just flailing wildly here.

I am glad to hear that since he has not yet gone to court that he doesn't really have a "record" and that this is the best time to seek custody. Although, maybe it's better if one of his parents or siblings do it, I don't know if that would look better or not. They all have nice stable homes and jobs and I'm sure would look attractive to the court.

I also wondered about all of this having an impact on his ability to practice medicine, and considering that he's the sole supporter of their family, is more proof that she's not acting rationally. I know next to nothing about forced psych holds, but that sounds like a good idea in this case. Action needs to be taken now. And I think you're totally right about BIL - her parents have alluded, apparently, that this is not new behavior - and they don't seem too motivated to step in. Her mom does not work, for example, and is much younger than P's parents (like in her 50s), and might be a logical choice for temporary custody but noones suggested that because I think that side is all burying their heads in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

This just cements my urge to have DH call P up this evening and tell him to get out now with the baby. That's why I was up all night last night. It's not like he has nowhere to go and noone to take care of DC which is of course a concern as well, I think he just doesn't know what to do because this has just hit him out of left field and he's a generally glass-half-full type of guy.

ETa: you typed more while I was writing. I will suggest the log - VERY good idea. I am off to tell DH he needs to make a call tonight.

[bubbaray]

OK, once again I'm in a rush -- company on their way over plus DD#1 and I must go to the hairdressers (photos tomorrow).

Family law and custody issues are provincial jurisdiction, unlike the Divorce Act, which is federal jurisdiction. So, for a married couple with children who are divorcing, there are 2 court actions, one under the provincial Family Relations Act (different names in different provinces, I'll just use the BC names as I have no idea what the Acts are called in Quebec) and one under the federal Divorce Act. The federal action deals only with the dissolution of the marriage. The provincial action deals with everything else -- property settlements, custody, support.

This seguays nicely into my next point. Quebec, as you know, is a civil law jurisdiction. That means that Quebec provincial law is based on the French Napoleonic code (often called the Civil code, because all the laws were "codified", contrasted with what is known as common law, which is caselaw-based, which is the legal history of the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and all other Commonwealth countries).

All of this means that what MH and I are articulating are principles based in common-law jurisprudence. I have no freakin' idea what the law is in Quebec on this stuff. I'm not trying to be flippant, but I just wanted to warn you in case your friend gets some legal advice that is really different than what we are saying, KWIM? IME, my "common sense" approach to legal issues pretty much stops at the Quebec border.

I really hope he gets some awesome legal advice.

BTW, as tempting as it may be, do NOT have him stay with you, especially with the baby, unless you are very able to get in the middle of a messy, ugly situation. If you are OK with that, fine. But, you need to go into such an arrangement eyes open, KWIM?

Best of luck to you and him.

[gigoteuse]

I volunteered for a few years in a shelter for women and children victim of violence and I would suggest calling one or a hotline for women victim of violence (unless there is one for men victim of violence in Montreal or a provincial one). Even though your friend is a male, they could give him a lot of information and a few names of lawyers who work in this type of situation, lawyers who would have not only the knowledge, but also an good understanding of domestic abuse. The organization I volunteered at has a program where you meet with someone who helps you go through the steps before you leave, for example, an emergency plan, in case he needs the leave the house in a hurry, preparing what he would need for his first meeting with a lawyer etc. Of course, usually these services are geared for women and he may not find all organizations to be too man-friendly, but I would hope that in Montreal, at least one place would be open to help him by at least giving him some referrals.

[mama2g03]

No advice here, just wanted to send P & PT and hugs to you, your friend and your families. I really hope things work out ok for everyone in this situation. It sounds like you are getting good advice from pps.


My one regret with my DH (and I still use that "D" to mean dear) is that I didn't leave sooner, before he REALLY unravelled. If I had, maybe there still would have been time to get him help while DD and I were safe.

Mary-Helen, just wanted to send you big hugs and P & PT, too. Please don't put any blame on yourself. I won't even pretend to know how it feels to be in your shoes, but I wish you peace and comfort.

[dcmom2b3]

This seguays nicely into my next point. Quebec, as you know, is a civil law jurisdiction. That means that Quebec provincial law is based on the French Napoleonic code (often called the Civil code, because all the laws were "codified", contrasted with what is known as common law, which is caselaw-based, which is the legal history of the UK, USA, Canada, Australia and all other Commonwealth countries).

All of this means that what MH and I are articulating are principles based in common-law jurisprudence. I have no freakin' idea what the law is in Quebec on this stuff. I'm not trying to be flippant, but I just wanted to warn you in case your friend gets some legal advice that is really different than what we are saying, KWIM? IME, my "common sense" approach to legal issues pretty much stops at the Quebec border.


Melissa, if I were practicing, and had a malpractice insurance carrier, they would thank you. As will I right now. I'm just enough of a stoopid Amurcun [hawk, spit tobakky juice], to forget how Canada's regional, cultural differences manifest themselves.

Molly, his lawyers there in Quebec are the best source of advice. IMO, the best thing that you and your DH can do for him is to offer supportive ears and perhaps propose scenarios that he hasn't considered. Eg leaving with the baby doesn't mean that they'll never see one another again, just that right now its the best thing for all concerned, safety-wise. That the infant needs someone to put his/her needs before anyone else's.

From someone who's been there, I will offer the following:

"When people tell you who they really are, believe them. The first time." (I *think* that's Maya Angelou)

It's not gonna get better w/o intervention and radical change, so really, there's no question of "if" things get worse, only questions of "when."
She's not well, the only consideration for her part is treatment. Which may be voluntary or forced, but it must happen at some point sooner better than later. Her getting treatment isn't tied to your friend and the infant being safe, however.

Family members who turn a blind eye and minimize, yet allude to prior issues: he should decline membership in that club. I tried to engage Eric's family, only to have it blow up in my face. It's easy to want to make everything nice, but mental health issues aren't nice, they aren't easy and at some point someone has to step up. Only IME, they don't -- it's easier to take the head in sand approach. Forget her folks, is there someone who's solid and trustworthy on his side of the family tree? That's the prospective alternative guardian.

[bubbaray]

MH, I didn't mean it as a criticism AT ALL (but, you knew that, right?). I was meaning more if Molly spoke with the guy and he said that he got different legal advise than what you and I are saying. The whole civil law/common law divide is weird up here.

BRW, I hope you and E are doing OK. Many hugs to you both. I can't even imagine. :grouphug:

[dcmom2b3]

No advice here, just wanted to send P & PT and hugs to you, your friend and your families. I really hope things work out ok for everyone in this situation. It sounds like you are getting good advice from pps.



Mary-Helen, just wanted to send you big hugs and P & PT, too. Please don't put any blame on yourself. I won't even pretend to know how it feels to be in your shoes, but I wish you peace and comfort.

Thank you Stacey. It's not so much blame or guilt as 20/20 hindsight. I'm a bit brittle b/c today I saw Eric for the last time, told him goodbye, but still couldn't resist giving him the baby update for the day -- "she's counting to six and knows the difference between M and W, and E and 3 now, and dude, I swear it's not me, must be PBS kids . . . ." I have the feeling that its not the last baby update that he'll get.

I miss sharing the joy of watching her grow with the person who helped me bring her into the world, someone who I know cherished each milestone as much as I. But as I take each step in getting him closer to his final rest, I do feel more peace. No doubt BBB mojo at its best.

[dcmom2b3]

MH, I didn't mean it as a criticism AT ALL (but, you knew that, right?). I was meaning more if Molly spoke with the guy and he said that he got different legal advise than what you and I are saying. The whole civil law/common law divide is weird up here.

BRW, I hope you and E are doing OK. Many hugs to you both. I can't even imagine. :grouphug:

Dude, what 'chu talkin' bout!?! Criticism is when you bleed from the nose, right? None of that here. I truly am thankful that you caught that HUGE "Canada our neighbor from the north is just like us" thing that I had going on. I know better, generally. Just not today. (Ironic, actually, since I'm getting flack from a bunch of Code Civil oriented folks regarding every aspect of Eric's death. Am composing mangum opus for the Bitching Post, will notify the Fields ahead of time cuz it might just crash their servers. The word apostille will be featured prominently.)

Eleanor is good, I am stronger and wiser than I ever knew as well as more blessed (have wanted to post an update but have gotten too caught up in others' threads). In short, we're gonna be just fine.

But only good vibes from you, ever. And to you, ever. And BTW, I'm just waiting for you to move back east sos we can open up that litigation boutique with 24 hr French-immersion child care . . . . and pedicures on demand. :hug:

[MontrealMum]

Mary-Helen, my heart goes out to you and your daughter. I cannot even imagine what you're going through. You are an incredibly strong person and I very much appreciate your help during such a difficult time.

Just a quick update on the situation up here. DH just got off the phone with P's brother, who he is also friends with. The brother confirmed all the stories and added more, it's really not a good situation, but we already knew that. He was very grateful that DH called, and that DH wanted to rally forces around P and the DS as it were. There does seem to be an "escape plan" (where to go, childcare set up), it's just a question of getting P to see that he needs to do it. Although we would not have them at our house (too small) I have offered to babysit if necessary, and in emergencies. It's not much, but I feel very helpless. Her parents don't seem too helpful, or more likely willing to acknowledge things; but his are great, as are his siblings and extended family.

DH wants to talk to his own therapist on Tues. about the situation, the disease, and how to deal with the wife. I don't think this is going to help much as she's obviously no longer rational, but it's important to DH. He's working through his own things with this as this hits us quite close to home. He will also call P tomorrow and urge him to leave with the baby.

I did know about the legal differences, but not how things fall between them, and I got what you were saying that advice might be conflicting and go with his lawyers. The problem here is that some things are covered under the Civil Code, and some under Common Law - I don't know which ones are which, because I'm not a lawyer. I think criminal is Common Law. FIL is a lawyer (but a retired, corporate one) so we may or may not talk to him. But we did get reassurance from the brother this evening that P's lawyer is top-notch.

Thank you all so much for listening, and for your help. I will keep updating as things happen, although I'm not sure the resolution will be happy for everyone, I'm hoping at least that baby and P will be safe, and C will get some help.

[dcmom2b3]

It's not much, but I feel very helpless. Her parents don't seem too helpful, or more likely willing to acknowledge things; but his are great, as are his siblings and extended family.

DH wants to talk to his own therapist on Tues. about the situation, the disease, and how to deal with the wife. I don't think this is going to help much as she's obviously no longer rational, but it's important to DH. He's working through his own things with this as this hits us quite close to home. He will also call P tomorrow and urge him to leave with the baby.

But we did get reassurance from the brother this evening that P's lawyer is top-notch.

Thank you all so much for listening, and for your help. I will keep updating as things happen, although I'm not sure the resolution will be happy for everyone, I'm hoping at least that baby and P will be safe, and C will get some help.

Sounds like things are coalescing (sp?), er, coming together. My prayers are with each of you. It's a journey.

[bubbaray]

Criminal law in Canada is codified -- its handily called the Criminal Code. In theory, the law is the same in all provinces & territories. However, as we all know, it comes down to the application of the law to the facts by the judge hearing the case, so it not only varies by province, but by judge. I don't know what Quebec judges are like in terms of conviction rates or penalties. I'm in BC, and the judges are extremely lenient here. The criminal charges will definitely be under the Criminal Code.

I'm somewhat sure (well, maybe kinda sure?!) that any custody proceedings would be under the civil code. Your FIL would know for sure on that.

Ask him what the heck notaries are. I know what they are in the rest of the country, but they are different in Quebec. Never quite figured that part out, LOL.

GL!

[bubbaray]

But only good vibes from you, ever. And to you, ever. And BTW, I'm just waiting for you to move back east sos we can open up that litigation boutique with 24 hr French-immersion child care . . . . and pedicures on demand. :hug:

Wouldn't that be COOL!?!! :)

I'm so proud of myself -- I actually *do* know what an apostille is. Had to get one (got a bunch, actually) from Hawaii for our marriage certificates for the girls' German passports. I had no clue what they were until that little fiasco. What a PITA. At the time, I thought "oh crap, another important lecture I skipped in law school", then I called around to a few of my peers and none of them had a clue what they were either.

His family aren't giving you grief over the estate, surely?! OMG, I might have to come out there and hurt someone. I'll wait for your BP update.

I'm so relieved that Eleanor is doing well -- and of course, you too. All week I would look at my girls and not even begin to comprehend how you are coping with the situation.

[MontrealMum]

I know this is a long time in coming, but I didn't have anything useful to add since I started this. But I've been thinking of this thread in particular since last week's about providing updates, and coincidentally, I have something to add!

DH's BFF has recently been cleared of the abuse charges (thank goodness) and has finally come around to the realization that he needs to divorce this woman who is deeply troubled, and has repeated refused to seek help even though many avenues have been open to her. This is the super-short version, and I would never make light of divorce, but trust me, this is truly a joyous occasion. The proceedings start on Fri. :yay:

[MamaKath]

This is the super-short version, and I would never make light of divorce, but trust me, this is truly a joyous occasion. The proceedings start on Fri. :yay:
Oh what a relief! It sounds like that is the best thing to do for him and his dc. Hopefully it will be quick and a fair judge will sit the proceedings.

[KBecks]

Good, I am afraid a divorce sounds like the plan that will best protect everyone, most importantly their child.

[shawnandangel]

Thanks for posting an updade. I remember your thread from last year. I'm glad that your DH's friend has been cleared of charges.