2009 vista versus cameleon - a few questions...

[lmh2402]

i had the chance to compare/contrast the cameleon and the 2009 vista tonight.

my husband and sister were with me

we left there with my husband and sister 100,000% sold on the vista versus the cameleon based on the following:
1. the canopy is way better on the vista;
2. the vista bassinet is self-sufficient - it can be used outside of the stroller b/c there's an actual; frame/base...the cameleon bassinet is soft, kind of like a hammock;
3. the salesperson said it's about 2-3 pounds lighter than the cameleon - IS THIS TRUE?
4. no need for fabric swap between seat and bassinet;
5. the baby is higher up in the vista;
6. you can recline the seat from behind the stroller if you notice the baby is sleeping, rather than having to stop and go to the front of the stroller like with the cameleon;
7. fold with the seat attached;
8. can stand folded;
9. option to add rumble seat in the future if needed;
10. nice big basket – seems bigger than cameleon’s

and i totally agree with all of these points…however, i have a couple of concerns / things i see as cameleon pros:
1. narrower frame – maybe it’s not much, but i am worried that even 2.5 inches is going to make it difficult to navigate in stores, etc – CAN SOMEONE PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS?
2. the ability to move the handle back and forth to allow the big wheels to be in front – ANY SIGNIFICANT VALUE HERE?
3. the sales people said the cameleon had somewhat better wheels and probably a bit of a better, smoother ride – ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS? IS THE DIFFERENCE IN RIDE MATERIAL?

any thoughts would be most appreciated…i am trying very hard to avoid buyers remorse. i don’t want to end up buying the vista and wishing i had the cameleon…or vice versa.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I love the air tires on the Cameleon. They saved me from ever having to have a real jogging stroller. Taking it on bumpy sidewalks everywhere was just easy. Flipping the handlebar to get through a field or something rocky was convenient on more than one occasion. I thought the Cameleon was easy to live with for parent and child. Never noticed it being heavy. It just seemed totally well-designed and useful. We used the bassinet for the first 2.5 mos, then switched the seat over ONCE with each child. The fabric/frame thing was not a big deal at all. Not sure I ever needed it to fold and stand upright. It lays down in the trunk -or on the side in my CRV. I'd never actually park a stroller upright if the DC were crawling around. I'd think it would fall on them. Maybe I'm not seeing the utility of this since we don't have this option.

I've never played with a Vista, so I can't comment on it. Lots of people seem to be getting them. I don't know how they fare in the long run.

You are going to be the one living with the stroller, so pick the one YOU like the best - not DH or your sister or the salesman. Have fun stroller shopping :)

[lmh2402]

thanks for the reply! the salesperson last night actually told me the cameleon tires are no longer (or maybe they will no longer be) air...they are also moving to foam?...but they also said the bugaboo still will have a slightly better tire...

i like them both...having a very hard time picking one over the other. my biggest, biggest worry is that the vista will end up being just a bit too wide.

would really love to hear from any 2009 vista users...have you encountered any stores you couldn't get through?

[MamaBear]

I have a Cameleon and love it to bits. Our son is 25 months old now, and the Bug is our one-and-only stroller. The Uppa Baby wasn't on the market when we were shopping (at least not that I saw in Canada), but when I saw it the one thing that struck me as something that would drive me bonkers is the curved axel going straight through the storage basket. Now that I've gotten used to it, I really don't mind the 2-part fold of the Cameleon, and as a pp said, I don't know that I'd ever really want a folded stroller standing on end with a mobile baby about. I don't find the Cameleon heavy, but in any case, if someone does, this is when the 2-part fold is a benefit.

You mentioned the bassinet. Bugaboo's bassinet is not rigid like Uppa Baby's and some others, but it can be used without the chassis. It was our son's bed for his first three months. No problem. It doesn't just hang from the frame, there are rigid pieces that slot in to the fabric and make it keep it's form.

The Cameleon's basket is deceptively huge. I know it doesn't look it, but it holds so much. I've gotten loads of groceries in there, and the steering isn't diminished at all. So many times my husband has shaken his head and said, 'it'll never all fit', and every time I've surprised him. It is hard to access with the bassinet, but no problem with the seat. If I've got a lot in there, when I get back to the car I take the seat off (another surprise perk of the 2-part fold) and unload the basket very easily.

I can't compare it with the Vista, but the Cameleon's canopy has been plenty big for us. And I love the sunshade which can attach to cover the area from the edge of the canopy to the end of the seat. This doesn't work as well with an active toddler (kicks at it unless he's asleep) but was a charm when he was a baby. Highly recommend it.

Lastly, as a pp said, we swapped from bassinet to seat once. It was not a big deal at all. That said, now that we're expecting #2, I can see the value in being able to easily switch between the two - but even if the seat and bassinet were separate pieces, that wouldn't help much when out on the go. (I think the Peg Skate might be the only one that can be changed on the fly.)

Here's a question - does the Uppa Baby rumble seat work with the bassinet?

[edurnemk]

I got my Vista 2.5 weeks ago, I was going to get the Cameleon but I loved the new Vista, it was a very very close call, took me for ever to make up my mind. I think both have their pros and cons and you have to decide which matter most to you. I honestly think I would have been really happy with either of these strollers. But I do think that overall the Vista is a little more user friendly (for me at least) since you only need one hand to recline it (I've had a sleeping baby in one arm and only one hand to recline countless times), one hand to open the bumper bar, etc.

To answer your questions:


3. the salesperson said it's about 2-3 pounds lighter than the cameleon - IS THIS TRUE? .
No, it's not true, they weight about the same. The Vista weighs 24 lb. And I believe so does the Cameleon counting the canopy and basket.



1. narrower frame – maybe it’s not much, but i am worried that even 2.5 inches is going to make it difficult to navigate in stores, etc – CAN SOMEONE PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS?
2. the ability to move the handle back and forth to allow the big wheels to be in front – ANY SIGNIFICANT VALUE HERE?
3. the sales people said the cameleon had somewhat better wheels and probably a bit of a better, smoother ride – ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS? IS THE DIFFERENCE IN RIDE MATERIAL?

The new Vista is only 1/2 inch wider than the Cameleon (the 2008 is the one that's almost 2 inches wider). This has not been an issue for me, I've navigated through the tiny aisles and checkout lines at Whole Foods with no problem. Of course with either of these strollers you'll sometimes bump into things, they're both wide compared to a Maclaren or such, but I don't feel 1/2 inch is a significant difference.
I have not really missed the reversible handle that much. The front wheels on the Vista are bigger and more rugged than on the Cam, so you can go through rough terrain by just locking the front wheels. Also because of the pull-out sun shade I don't have the need to reverse the handle to get my son out of the sun.
The Cam has a slightly smoother ride because it has a little more suspension, but the 2008 and 2009 Cam's no longer have air tires. If you wan't air tires you'd have to find a 2007 Cameleon, there's still a few of them at Albee Baby and Right Start (not too many color options left though). However, I cannot complaint about the ride on the Vista, and believe me I have pushed it through very rough terrain with a napping baby and he stayed asleep. You can push it one-handed through anything, it turns on a dime. When I first got the stroller I was worried that it would be bumpy but after using the stroller I love it more every day. We have very bumpy sidewalks, cracked pavemen, I take it to the park and we may get snow this weekend so next week I can tell you how it handles in the snow.

Now the thing that I don't love that much about the Vista is that the seat doesn't come up to a FULLY upright position, at the highest setting it has a slight recline, so my baby has to pull himself forward using the bumper bar to look around (this is and issue with a lot of strollers). Other than that I'm very very happy with it. The seat is so high we can use it instead of a highchair at restaurants and the other day I managed to give my baby his bottle while walking: rear-facing seat, handle bar at the shortes setting, I walked close to the hanlde, pushed with one hand held the bottle with the other without bending over, or kicking the rear axle... I don't think you can pull this off with any other stroller.
About the bassinett, I actually do swap pretty often because even though my baby now uses the seat, if we go out at night we take the bassinet for him to sleep. Also I think in the future it will be more pracatical with 2 kids, to switch between bassinet for the newborn and seat for the toddler.

MamaBear: I don't think you can use the Rumble seat with the Bassinet, but I guess it's better to ask UPPABaby directly since it won't be out untli the spring. It can definitely be used with the car seat and with the seat in REAR FACING position. The rumble seat is also rear facing.

If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

[edurnemk]

Oh, I forgot to mention that another one a lot like the Vista but only 21 lbs. and slighlty slimmer frame is the I'coo Targo. It doesn't have an independent bassinet or big sun canopy though. But I think it's worht looking at if you haven't already.

[lmh2402]

many thanks for the detailed replies!!

re: the width, i could swear the difference was more than 1/2 inch...i put them big wheel-to-big wheels in the store last night and it appeared greater than that. and the saleswoman said it was more like 2-2.5 inches...

but it's good to know that in general, you haven't had many issues with that.

one point mamabear raised, which i remember wondering about...that bar that goes through the basket...does that get in the way? does it reduce storage ability?

also, was thinking re: mababear's point about some of the pros of 2 part fold of the cam...if you wanted to, you could always fold the vista in two parts too...seat/bassinet pops off if you wanted easier access to put bags in trunk or whatever...right? so with vista you could opt for one or two-part fold.

edurnemk - do you actually find the one-piece fold to be pretty bulky for the trunk? is it easier to put it in in two separate pieces?

and lastly, thanks for the reassurances that the ride is still pretty smooth in the vista. that and the width are my biggest concerns.

oh...and i also don't know about rumble seat with bassinet, but saleswoman said you could use it with car seat for infant

[edurnemk]

re: the width, i could swear the difference was more than 1/2 inch...i put them big wheel-to-big wheels in the store last night and it appeared greater than that. and the saleswoman said it was more like 2-2.5 inches...
Are you sure it was the 2009? Because I also measured them all and I found the 2008 to be about 2 inches wider than the Cam, but the 2009 less than an inch. That's why I bought it, because I had initially crossed the Vista off the list because of the width. So just to be sure I JUST measured my Vista and it's exactly 24.5 inches wide. The Cam is 24. Sometimes sales people don't know the specs well, I would take the measuring tape and a scale to the store to verify, LOL.


one point mamabear raised, which i remember wondering about...that bar that goes through the basket...does that get in the way? does it reduce storage ability?

The bar doesn't bother me at all. The basket is so big, it's really not an issue. I actually like it because I find it useful to divide and organize the space. I put my diaper bag in the back, and it's held upright by the bar (this makes it easier to reach into the diaper bag), and I put the rest of my stuff in the front part which is huge. I've put tons of groceries in it and it all fits perfectly. Also the basket is accesible from any angle. Of course the bassinet makes it less accesible, as with all strollers, but it's not impossible to get stuff in and out either.


also, was thinking re: mababear's point about some of the pros of 2 part fold of the cam...if you wanted to, you could always fold the vista in two parts too...seat/bassinet pops off if you wanted easier access to put bags in trunk or whatever...right? so with vista you could opt for one or two-part fold.

edurnemk - do you actually find the one-piece fold to be pretty bulky for the trunk? is it easier to put it in in two separate pieces?

You can fold it in 1 or 2 pieces, depending on what's more practical for you. It cannot be folded with the bassinet, or the seat in rear facing. But with the front facing seat or the car seat adaptor it can be a 1 piece fold. I don't find it bulky. I used to have Graco Quattro, and THAT was bulky. The Vista seems fine to me, there's not that much difference with the Cam. And since you can opt to fold it in 2 pieces as well I think it's very versatile in that aspect.

Just to give you an idea, I have a Sentra and last week I fit the stroller with the car seat adaptor and 2 weeks-worth of groceries (five of the Whole Foods reusable bags filled to the top, and 2 gallons of milk) in the trunk without a problem.

[edurnemk]

Here's a link about the improvements on the 2009 Vista, including the width: 24.5 inches:

http://www.letsgostrolling.com/uppababy-2009-vista.html : 2.5" narrower than the 2007 and earlier versions ... 2.5" narrower width for easy in store and busy city manueverability...

Let's Go Strolling Stroller Specs:
Seat Back Length: 19"
Butt to Canopy height: 21"
Seat Width: 11.5"
Seat Depth: 9"
Knee to feet: 10"
Widest Point: 23.5"
Stroller Length: 31.5"
Stroller Weight: 24 lbs

http://www.peppyparents.com/servlet/the-268/uppa-baby-vista-2009/Detail#details : the 2009 UPPAbaby Vista includes the Urban rear wheel set that gives an overall stroller width of 24.5 inches

Strollerqueen also mentions the slimmer wheels on her 2009 Stroller Rollout, but you need to pay to get acces to that: www.strollerqueen.com

[ebjw]

If it matters to you, the Vista now has an adapter for the Chicco Key Fit 30 so you aren't stuck choosing only between Peg and Graco.
I finally ordered mine in green, I can't wait to get it!

[lmh2402]

i just got an email from UppaBaby confirming that the information they gave me yesterday was incorrect

indeed, for 2009 the width of the vista has been reduced to 24.5

it is sad that this has been the most exciting, happiest part of my day. but i am so thrilled b/c i feel like it seals the deal for me. my biggest worry of vista vs. cam was the width. but for .5 inches (as pp so smartly said) it's virtually the same thing. and i love that baby will be higher up.

ahh...i am now content. for a least an hour or so.

thanks for all the input, ladies!

[edurnemk]

You're welcome! I'm sure you'll be very happy with your stroller.

The other things I like better than the Cam are the adjustable footrest, the canopy, how easy it is to access the basket and that you don't need a high chair at restaurants because it is so high. Oh, and the optinal cupholder folds down so it's less bulky.

Oh, I just want to let you know that the rain cover doesn't fit the bassinet. You'd have to get another brand, or maybe the old model rain cover fits, I haven't checked.

[ebjw]

I thought I saw a picture somewhere with the rain cover on the bassinet- did I...?
Does it come with two rain covers- one for the seat and one for the bassinet and the bassinet one just doesn't fit? Or does it just come with the one?

[edurnemk]

It comes with just one rain cover that zips unto the seat canopy. Frustrating, I know
It comes with 2 bug nets, one for the seat (with zipper) and one for the bassinet.

[Chris4e]

If it matters to you, the Vista now has an adapter for the Chicco Key Fit 30 so you aren't stuck choosing only between Peg and Graco.
I finally ordered mine in green, I can't wait to get it!


Can someone confirm this? I haven't found this info anywhere else.

[ebjw]

I emailed Uppa Baby and they confirmed it for me-
"1. Yes...the Chicco adaptor will be available mid to end of November2. It will work with the 2008 model also"
I have ordered it, but Baby on the Run hasn't gotten it in yet, they told him that it has been delayed but will be shipped to him this week or next week.

[HSWalters]

I just bought the Vista and the deciding factor for me was that in March they are adding a rumble seat so when we have a second baby we can still use the stroller. Not sure if you're planning on having another, but I like that the Vista gave me the option that the stroller could seat two kids, which is something the Bugaboos do not do.

[thepeachmama]

this may be a stupid question, but does anyone know if the vista has a footmuff for keeping dd superwarm in winter?

Thanks!

[edurnemk]

No there's not a Vista footmuff, we live in Chicago and use Toddler size Urban Bundle Me. It's worked great so far. When it's too cold or windy we use the weather shield as well.

[lmh2402]

actually have a question about weather shields, etc...

i think, edurnemk, you had mentioned in previous posts that the bug net and the rain shield that come with the vista only work for the seat. do i remember this correctly?

so my question is, what to do with new baby in bassinet?

any suggestions would be most appreciated

we've got our vista ordered and can't wait :)

[edurnemk]

i think, edurnemk, you had mentioned in previous posts that the bug net and the rain shield that come with the vista only work for the seat. do i remember this correctly?

so my question is, what to do with new baby in bassinet?

The Vista comes with one weather shield that only fits the seat, a bug net that fits the seat and a second bug net that fits the bassinet.
So no weather shield for the bassinet.

I noticed on UPPABaby's webpage that the replacement rain cover they sell (for the 2008 I think) is of the kind that fits over the entire canopy and seat, so I believe this one would fit over the bassinet. The 2009 zips unto the seat's canopy and that's why it won't fit the bassinet. So far I've been using a generic rain cover we had for our other stroller (it's a Graco, but there's several brands) over the bassinet, it works fine, although ours has a few tears. So I'm thinking about ordering the UPPABaby one, I just need to call them to confirm it's the one that goes over the entire thing.
My baby is older so I don't use the bassinet much, but I really think it's a huge oversight on their part. Other than that I think my Vista is perfect!

[lmh2402]

ok, thanks!