Help! What am I doing wrong?

[ThreeofUs]

My Weissbluth is still packed away, victim of our continuing renovation.

DS2 has decided not to sleep at night. Literally.

He wakes up at 12:30 - 1:30 and stays awake until - well, this morning it was 8ish when he decided he was tired. 7 hours. All at night.

I'm doing everything I know to do.

During the day, he's in bright lights, noise, etc. Lately, I've even tried (very gently) to keep him awake or wake him up to eat so that he's up at least 4 hours during the day.

During the night, we're in dim light, low voices, and white noise. We've done all the HBOTB S's, we walk him, we've tried swings - all to naught.

I am not only exhausted, I'm at my wit's end. I have no idea what to do now.

Help, please. Give me ideas for turning my little guy's nights into times for rest.

[Clarity]

I wondered how you were holding up when you mentioned the other day that he was typically awake from 1:30ish to 4:00ish at night. I couldn't function for my toddler with that type of grueling schedule.

Is he crying and fussy at night or just happily awake? Do you swaddle him? I don't co-sleep, but I notice sometimes when I lay L down in the crook of my arm, she'll settle down and fall sleep....then I move her to the bassinet. Or you could try co-sleeping and see if that helps. What does his sleep pattern look like through the day?

With dd2, I bath her, massage her with Jason Lavender Oil and then let her cluster feed till she's milk drunk and sleepy. I usually get 6hrs out of her that way, she wakes up at 4ish to eat - I never turn on the light, just pick her up, feed her, change her only if necessary and then lay her back down. She'll go about two more hours after that.

I'll go get my Weisbluth book and see what else he suggests.

[ThreeofUs]

I wondered how you were holding up when you mentioned the other day that he was typically awake from 1:30ish to 4:00ish at night. I couldn't function for my toddler with that type of grueling schedule.

I can't either. I'm relying on babysitters and DH to give me sleep time during the day. My functioning is *seriously* compromised.



Is he crying and fussy at night or just happily awake? Do you swaddle him? I don't co-sleep, but I notice sometimes when I lay L down in the crook of my arm, she'll settle down and fall sleep....then I move her to the bassinet. Or you could try co-sleeping and see if that helps. What does his sleep pattern look like through the day?


He'd mostly just awake at night. Not crying or fussy - unless I put him down or give him to DH, LOL - but awake. I swaddle him and that sometimes, rarely works. Most times, swaddling makes him fight. I've even tried swaddling him and putting him in a swing, but he's just there watching me type on the computer. (The swing is right there, and he cries if the light is off and/or if he can't see me.)

I co-sleep with him on me, as he has to be on his tummy and upright a bit to sleep. He has reflux, I think, but not so that he needs medication. Unless he's tired, though, this annoys him. He'd rather be walking or in the swing.



What does his sleep pattern look like through the day?

He sleeps in the morning (of course, since he's been up all night), and I wake him up every 2.5-3 hours to eat and see if he'll stay awake a bit. Then he'll take another 2.5-3 hour nap, and again I'll wake him up to look out windows, eat, etc. Then the pattern repeats.

If he continued this pattern at night, I'd be happy. (I'll take ANY progress at this point - and this is what he used to do.)



With dd2, I bath her, massage her with Jason Lavender Oil and then let her cluster feed till she's milk drunk and sleepy. I usually get 6hrs out of her that way, she wakes up at 4ish to eat - I never turn on the light, just pick her up, feed her, change her only if necessary and then lay her back down. She'll go about two more hours after that.

I'll try this bathing and massage. He doesn't seem to have a problem going to sleep in the early to mid evening (7-11ish), it's just after midnight he wants to be awak. I never turn on the lights, change rarely, and *still* the poor guy stays awake.


I'll go get my Weisbluth book and see what else he suggests.
Thank you. Thank you.

Any help is most appreciated.

[Clarity]

I looked a Weissbluth. First of all, he writes that babies sleep cycles start to regulate at around 6 weeks. He suggests they have no more than 2 hours of wakefulness at a time...I'd forgotten that. His sleep info is pretty basic, maintain the 2hr window, recognize drowsy cues, laying him down and getting him to sleep is as much good timing as anything else, develop a bedtime routine, match the time when you soothe the baby to when he naturally needs to sleep, if he falls asleep on the breast, leave him sleep. Soothe to sleep before baby gets overtired. Soothing = sucking (nurse or paci), rocking motions, swaddling, and massage. I'm sure you've got that covered. Leave the lights out, try not to engage baby verbally at night.
Oh, and here he says that at 7-8 wks they undergo major biological changes and may forget what they've learned. Perhaps that's what happened to G?

We try to keep L up for a couple of hours before bedtime. Tonight she was awake from 4-6 napped for an hour and then was up from 7-8:30 when I swaddled her and put her down for the night. When she wakes at night, I pick her up, nurse her and put her back without turning on any lights or talking to her at all. (I surf the net while I nurse from dh's Iphone.) I don't even get off my bed and lately, I don't change her unless her diaper really feels full or she's had a bm. I don't want to wake her and she rarely has a bm at night now. I also give L a pacifier which has been helpful. DD1 never took one and I'm glad L will. If she gets "shifty" at night I pop in the pacifier and she'll settle back into sleep.

I hope some of this has helped. It may just be a phase that you have to ride out. I hope it doesn't last long and thank goodness your dh is able to be so helpful. Let me know if you'd like me to dig through more Weissbluth.

[ThreeofUs]

Thanks so much - this will help. I hope.

[ahrimie]

also, 10pm - 2am is where they have their lightest sleep.. there was a time when my baby would fuss until 3am and sleep like a dream after that until 8am. co-sleeping during those really rough weeks helped and she stayed asleep during that ligh sleep window.

my babe would also fight when swaddled sometimes, so we just did it tighter and it helped her go to bed.

does your baby take a paci? when mine got fussy during that time, i would put our soothie in the second she started to stir and pat her gently... i just did anything and everything i could to keep my sanity. luckily though, it only lasted a few weeks.. i'm sure yours will grow out of it too!

oh.. and last thing, try putting your babe to bed earlier. weissbluth is a huge advocate on that. lately, my 6 month old was waking more frequently and screaming around 5am when she used to sleep in until 8-10am. last night, i put her to bed at 5:45pm and she slept til 8:15!!! my boobies didn't make it through the night but she did :) [she did stir around 1am but i waited just a little bit to see if she'd fall asleep and she did]

[ThreeofUs]

also, 10pm - 2am is where they have their lightest sleep.. there was a time when my baby would fuss until 3am and sleep like a dream after that until 8am. co-sleeping during those really rough weeks helped and she stayed asleep during that ligh sleep window.

my babe would also fight when swaddled sometimes, so we just did it tighter and it helped her go to bed.

does your baby take a paci? when mine got fussy during that time, i would put our soothie in the second she started to stir and pat her gently... i just did anything and everything i could to keep my sanity. luckily though, it only lasted a few weeks.. i'm sure yours will grow out of it too!

oh.. and last thing, try putting your babe to bed earlier. weissbluth is a huge advocate on that. lately, my 6 month old was waking more frequently and screaming around 5am when she used to sleep in until 8-10am. last night, i put her to bed at 5:45pm and she slept til 8:15!!! my boobies didn't make it through the night but she did :) [she did stir around 1am but i waited just a little bit to see if she'd fall asleep and she did]


I'd forgotten the early sleep time, thanks. I'll try it.

One of the problems is that G needs to be upright for at least 10 minutes after he nurses. This makes co-sleeping very difficult, and I think the stimulation keeps him awake. I don't know what to do about this - even if I have him on me, and I'm leaning back on pillows at a 45-60 degree angle (that is, really upright), he still gurps and is very uncomfortable.

I think the tighter swaddling is helping G, too.

I wish we could co-sleep better. :(

Thanks so much for the input. Anything to help is appreciated.

[ahrimie]

oh and i just remembered.. that you don't want to keep them awake for very long. at that age, my dd could only stay awake for an hour MAX. try to find their tired signs... mine always rubbed her face in my check or she'd twirl her hair behind her ears. at that age, it's 2 hrs max, including the time it takes for them to fall asleep. for us, she would only eat/play for 45 min before i put her down again.

have you tried a sleep positioner? or, put something under his mattress to make it tilt a bit.... you can even try laying him on his left side at first, then when he falls alseep, lay him flat.

[egoldber]

He has reflux, I think, but not so that he needs medication.

Not being able to sleep at night seems like a good reason to try a trial of meds. I'm sorry. Lack of sleep is sooooo brutal!

[ThreeofUs]

Not being able to sleep at night seems like a good reason to try a trial of meds. I'm sorry. Lack of sleep is sooooo brutal!


Yeah. I thought so too. But not my ped. He says (with good reason) that if the baby isn't in pain, the meds won't do anything for him.

I lay DS2 down on his back and he throws up. I have all of his changing pads tilted, I keep him mostly in arms, and have a papasan swing and chair for him to sit in on the rare occasions this is necessary. Even on his tummy, if he's too far from vertical for 10-15 minutes after a feeding, he's going to urp up some part of his meal. Ped says, "oh, all babies are leaky to one extent or another."

DS2 isn't fussy or in pain. He sleeps just fine during the day. He only cries at night when not vertical enough or when DH is holding him. (LOL - that's one reason I'm so beat!)

Frankly, I'm too tired to think about it enough to fight it - if that's the right course - right now. I'm just trying to give my little guy the best chances to sleep at night....

[egoldber]

Yeah. I thought so too. But not my ped. He says (with good reason) that if the baby isn't in pain, the meds won't do anything for him.

But not being able to sleep is a sign of being in pain. Not all babies scream with pain.

Does your ped know how little he is sleeping?

[ThreeofUs]

But not being able to sleep is a sign of being in pain. Not all babies scream with pain.

Does your ped know how little he is sleeping?


Ah. You who are so wise in the ways of babies! (You must be someone with sleep. ;) ) This would be a key, perhaps. Except that it's only one time of night that G has a problem....

I was going to call the ped anyway to get a referral to a sleep specialist, I'll mention this during the conversation.

[egoldber]

You must be someone with sleep

:hysterical:

On the contrary! I am well versed in the ways of reflux babies who do not sleep.... :hug: