Can anyone tell me about Hannah Montana?

[kristenk]

DD is 4yo and in preschool. She came home from school several months ago talking about how cool Hannah Montana is and how all the girls think she's cool. I asked her to tell me a little more about HM, but the only thing she knows is that she's cool and what she looks like.

DD desperately wants a Hannah Montana doll for Christmas. (The other item that DD really, really wants is the "cheerleader baby" from American Girl.) There's not a particular doll she has in mind, just a Hannah Montana doll in general. I'm trying to decide whether to try to find one for her or if I should try to stay away from HM as long as possible.

So, can anyone tell me about Hannah Montana and what you'd do if your DD wanted a Hannah Montana doll? I feel very clueless about this.

[Davids-Coco]

I am ashamed to say this... but I totally went through an insomnia phase where I watched all the episodes. I think the show's content is mature for a 4 year old, but a doll isn't the same thing as the tv show. If it is just the doll thing, I'm not sure it is any different than asking for a barbie with the exception that there is a tv series and different type of mass merchandising attached.

I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. It would be an interesting line between "just a doll" and getting into the whole hannah montana phenomenon. If treated as a doll only and realizing that there could be tantrums about not getting to watch the show, then I would get it. But if the boundary couldn't be maintained, then I would question it.

You may want to catch an episode by yourself just in case... but it depends on your household too.

[brittone2]

One of my DS's best friends is our 4 year old neighbor next door. She's HM obsessed. She had a HM birthday (every single thing was HM...cake, decor, favors, etc.).

We don't do TV with the kids yet. I personally would probably try to steer my DD away from it gently if she were interested, but I know there are people that find HM very "girl power" etc. I feel like it really is more suited to preteens, or at least 8+, personally, but that's my own take and I know lots of parents are fine with HM. I've admittedly never seen the show, I just see the merchandise and it seems geared toward wanting to be a teen in some ways, kwim?

It may be a good time to talk to your DD about why exactly she thinks HM is cool, kwim?

I think HM is super popular with even preschoolers now, so I don't think her interest is uncommon. FOr my family, the marketing, etc. wouldn't be something I'd be that thrilled about, but you know your child. Can you watch the show once or twice without her around and see how you feel about it?

[kristenk]

As far as I know, DD hasn't a clue that HM is on TV. She knows that there are certain things that we don't watch and she's okay with that. I think that she simply wants a doll that looks like Hannah Montana. Oh, she does know that Hannah Montana sings, but she doesn't know any songs and hasn't asked to hear them.

I think there's a little bit of boy vs. girl thing going on here. The girls "all" like Hannah Montana and the boys say "Hannah Montana" in some sort of funny way and like someone else instead. It's almost a sort of bonding thing/common ground with the girls in her class. At least that's what I think.

DD doesn't have any Barbie dolls. She hasn't been interested in older-looking dolls, yet. I really wish I could find a plush Hannah Montana!:D

[MarisaSF]

As far as I know, DD hasn't a clue that HM is on TV. She knows that there are certain things that we don't watch and she's okay with that. I think that she simply wants a doll that looks like Hannah Montana. Oh, she does know that Hannah Montana sings, but she doesn't know any songs and hasn't asked to hear them.


Your DD sounds a lot like my 4yo. They're funny aren't they? :D
My DD started asking about HM around Back-To-School shopping when we'd be in a place like Target buying pencils or whatever and the shelves were full fo HM this-and-that. Definitely eye-catching. She's never watched a show or heard a song.

My DD's favorite color is purple. She likes to wear what she calls "Hannah Montana clothes" which are not the licensed stuff with HM's pic on it, but rather purple stuff with prints. Her fave "HM outfit" is an explosion of purple pieces from Naartjie. She asks if she looks like HM in it and I tell her she looks like a total rockstar. Whatever. :jammin: :rolleye0014:

If my DD asked for a Hannah Montana doll, I'd look for a dress-up doll with a singer/star/dancer/sparkly outfits. Some suggestions:
Karito Kids Zoe: http://www.amazon.com/Zoe-USA-Doll-Karito-Kids/dp/B0018SSH2Q/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1228191016&sr=8-5
Travel KK Zoe: http://www.amazon.com/Karito-Kids-Canada-Travel-Charmer/dp/B001EXR58W/ref=pd_sim_t_3
Or any of the Groovy Girls: http://www.amazon.com/Manhattan-Toy-Groovy-Fashions-Starlet/dp/B000NYUR1K/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1228191578&sr=1-36

[Fairy]

My friend started letting her DD watch HM and HSM and alot of the other Disney tween shows at age 2. TWO. She's 4 now. I think HM is completely inappropriate for a 4yo. Completely inappropriate. And we watch alot more TV than most people on this board. Noggin? Fine. Mickey Mouse? Ok. Sesame? Absolutely. Hannah Montana? NO. When DS plays with this friend, she wants to turn it on, and I draw the line there and say no. It was a problem, but I simply will not let DS watch that show.

I would advise you to simply not give in to this; your DD will move on.

[elaineandmichaelsmommy]

I totally agree with fairy. DD is 6 and i'm beating hm and hsm away from us with a baseball bat somedays. I LOVE dd's school for having a dress code that doesn't allow any licensed characters on clothing PERIOD. It's kept a lot of the pop culture mass market materials out of our lives and freed dd to develop her own tastes.

I personally feel that disney goes too far with some of it's marketing but that's jmo. I frankly take issue with the early sexualization/hypermarketing towards young girls and am a little rabid about it. My sister bought dd a hsm barbie for her birthday and I just about had a cow. Maybe it had something to do with the bikini,high heels and frosty beverage that went with the doll.

Good luck with your decision.

[Fairy]

And there is no question that the sexualization is not only there but it's prevalent. I'm not even talking about Miley Cyrus, I'm talking strictly about HM. :thumbsdown:

[lisams]

I have no clue about HM, but I do know that at that age DD started wanting a few things because her friends liked it or had it. I found that after a while she would lose interest and then there would be a new "cool" something her friends had.

It's hard because you want to get them something they want, but sometimes what they think they want isn't something they'll really enjoy for very long. I think I would skip the HM doll and go with the AG doll.

[kristenk]

Hmmmm. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

The tricky part is that DD has NO interest in her music or her tv show. HM first came up quite a while ago, but it's really been since school started this year that HM became a more regular topic of coolness. ;)

I've been trying to compare HM and Spongebob and how I would react if she wanted something Spongebob for Christmas. I detest Spongebob and the tv shows are totally off limits (and DD knows this). If DD wanted Spongebob for Christmas, I wouldn't even think twice. The answer would be a definitive no.

I think that HM and Barbie are closely tied in my mind (not sure why), so giving DD a HM doll is similar to giving her a Barbie (once again, in my mind). And I'm not so sure I'm ready for DD to get Barbies right now, either.

Forgive my rambling post. I'm just trying to sort through things.

She IS getting a baby doll for Christmas and the cheerleader outfit.

[egoldber]

I don't think HM or HSM is appropriate for a 4 year old. Not that there is anything necessarily "wrong" with them, but they explore themes that are more for tweens than for 4-8 year olds IMO. I think shows like this can be good for presenting positive role models to older girls and for helping them think through and explore situations they are encountering at school.

[Fairy]

Kristen, please go watch two or three episodes of HM before you make up your mind. I think that would probably help you one way or the other. If you don't have cable, you can rent them or possibly watch them online.

[brittone2]

Hmmmm. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

The tricky part is that DD has NO interest in her music or her tv show. HM first came up quite a while ago, but it's really been since school started this year that HM became a more regular topic of coolness. ;)

I've been trying to compare HM and Spongebob and how I would react if she wanted something Spongebob for Christmas. I detest Spongebob and the tv shows are totally off limits (and DD knows this). If DD wanted Spongebob for Christmas, I wouldn't even think twice. The answer would be a definitive no.

I think that HM and Barbie are closely tied in my mind (not sure why), so giving DD a HM doll is similar to giving her a Barbie (once again, in my mind). And I'm not so sure I'm ready for DD to get Barbies right now, either.

Forgive my rambling post. I'm just trying to sort through things.

She IS getting a baby doll for Christmas and the cheerleader outfit.

do you think she'd be interested in something like the Only Hearts Club dolls? Cute, but more age appropriate. Close to a Barbie, but less of the downside if you aren't ready for Barbie yet. But maybe "big girl" enough to be satisfying?

[crazydiamond]

The actress who plays her, Miley Cyrus, has not been a good role model as of late for young girls. Then again it seems like many former Disney stars go bad after they hit middle to late teens. Disney is not what it used to be.

[kristenk]

do you think she'd be interested in something like the Only Hearts Club dolls? Cute, but more age appropriate. Close to a Barbie, but less of the downside if you aren't ready for Barbie yet. But maybe "big girl" enough to be satisfying?

That's the interesting part of all of this. DD is most definite in that she doesn't want a grown up doll - other than HM, that is. ;)

I really think that we'll be skipping HM for Christmas. DD will be thrilled by the other things that she's getting and I can't imagine that the holiday would be ruined for her by the lack of a HM doll. (Besides, if a missing HM doll can ruin Christmas, we have much bigger issues to deal with!)

[irie i]

You know I have been thinking about this a lot since coming to this board. People are so concerned about what types of role models tween/teen stars are setting for their children. Mothers are the ultimate role model for their daughters and need to stop looking to celebrities to do this for them. Our children are always going to become fascinated with people or things that aren't necessarily good for them...that is why it is our place to do our jobs and explain things to them...the outcome of behaviors, for example.

Stop trying to find which tween/teen star is the best role model for your kids. Guess what - they all grow up and most of them take on more "adult" roles either in life or on your television screen.

So in my honest opinion if your daughter wants a Hannah Montana doll and isn't interested in the show let her have one that is dressed age appropriate...if it makes her feel positive about herself as a girl then why not? There are enough things she will go through in her life that will make her doubt her worth as a woman...let her have a doll she thinks is "cool" particularly if it is an empowering thing for the girls in her class. Just my honest opinion.

[Happy Mommy]

Just had to chime in as I'm giggling about my 4 year old DD's comment the other day...

"Hannah Montana is inappropriate. She's a naughty girl."

Don't know how well that will go over with her classmates. ;)

She's never seen the show, but we have had definite discussions about Hannah Montana as a character when she's brought it up.

Just my personal opinion, but once you open the door to a character like that, your daughter will probably desire more and more of the merchandise. I try to avoid that push-pull all together.

Still laughing about DD's unsolicited comment...:)

[brittone2]

You know I have been thinking about this a lot since coming to this board. People are so concerned about what types of role models tween/teen stars are setting for their children. Mothers are the ultimate role model for their daughters and need to stop looking to celebrities to do this for them. Our children are always going to become fascinated with people or things that aren't necessarily good for them...that is why it is our place to do our jobs and explain things to them...the outcome of behaviors, for example.

Stop trying to find which tween/teen star is the best role model for your kids. Guess what - they all grow up and most of them take on more "adult" roles either in life or on your television screen.

So in my honest opinion if your daughter wants a Hannah Montana doll and isn't interested in the show let her have one that is dressed age appropriate...if it makes her feel positive about herself as a girl then why not? There are enough things she will go through in her life that will make her doubt her worth as a woman...let her have a doll she thinks is "cool" particularly if it is an empowering thing for the girls in her class. Just my honest opinion.

For me personally, it is about the way Disney and other companies deliberately are pushing tween/teen interests to younger and younger children. There is a deliberate decision on behalf of the marketing people to promote sexiness and teen interests to younger children (more profitable, building lifelong brand loyalty, etc). THere are several books about the marketing practices used with young children that were very eye opening to me (Buy Buy Baby, as well as Consuming Kids are two that come to mind).

Anyway, I feel like this about commercial characters of all types, to be honest. It isn't about whether HM is a good role model or not in our case.

eta: also is it really empowering to start giving into peer pressure from schoolmates about what is cool and desirable at a young age? Kwim?
Susan's Linn's site. This is a link to one of her articles (gives a feel of topics covered in her book). SHe's received commendations from the American Psychological Association, etc.
http://www.consumingkids.com/multinationalmonitor.pdf (lots of other good info on her page)

http://www.commercialfreechildhood.org/

One of the issues raised in the books I've read on consumerism is that by pushing down sexualized images and teen/tween interests on younger children, it also promotes an increased interest in more expensive and profitable products. Kids are more likely to start being interested and demanding cellphones, iPods, video game consoles, expensive clothing, etc. if they push the teen/tween interests down younger and younger. There are deliberate reasons for why marketers are doing this. (eta: the technical name for this pushing of tween/teen interests down to younger and younger children is "aspirational marketing"...was reminded of that when looking at Susan Linn's site just now).

[kochh2]

LOL, DS has been watching very little TV, as far as other kids his age go, but he has known that HM is a "pop star" for quite some time, though i'm not positive, i guess he learned from TV... grr... over the last year or so, he has continued to like HM music, only, as we do not let him watch the show... I agree, it is definitely for older kids!! Well, now when asked what he likes in the way of music, Aiden also likes Jonas brothers, all of a sudden... NO IDEA where that comes from, maybe heard it once with his 5 year old cousin, but i am still not certain-- either way, he has asked for a stereo for his room and some music from Santa, so we will be giving him a hand me down stereo, and we picked up a few CD's, so he will be getting his HM and Jonas cd's as asked, as well as some Christian music and other kid songs he enjoys...
it seems he enjoys her for her music, so we are happy to foster his love of a variety of music!! I'm glad it's not the other way around, though, if it were, i'm not sure i'd encourage the commercialism she has grown!!!

[irie i]

eta: also is it really empowering to start giving into peer pressure from schoolmates about what is cool and desirable at a young age?


There is a difference between peer pressure and having common interests. If the little girls in the class like Hannah Montana I don't see the problem in allowing your child to have a little something to help them bond. It sounds like its sort of a "girl power" thing in this scenario.

And, to clarify, I did say "age appropriate" attire on the doll...which would mean NOT sexual. The Hannah Montana dolls I have seen have her wearing jeans, glittery tops and jackets. That isn't sexual. :)

[Fairy]

The point is that HM is *not* age appropriate to a 4yo. It's age apprpriate to a tween. It's our job as parents to make sure that the role models we allow our children access to in our presence are the ones we deem appropriate. Yes, our kids will want certain things and like certain celebrities. that's fine. Doesn't mean we have to agree with it, foster it, or downright enable it on purpose. Miley is a terrible role model. She's not Britney, but she's certainly not what I'd want my daughter aspiring to be right now. And giving her a HM doll with the intent of the doll actually being HM (as opposed to just another blonde doll that happens to be HM when the child has no clue) is enabling that. Period.

[brittone2]

There is a difference between peer pressure and having common interests. If the little girls in the class like Hannah Montana I don't see the problem in allowing your child to have a little something to help them bond. It sounds like its sort of a "girl power" thing in this scenario.

And, to clarify, I did say "age appropriate" attire on the doll...which would mean NOT sexual. The Hannah Montana dolls I have seen have her wearing jeans, glittery tops and jackets. That isn't sexual. :)

Hmmm...we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it is girl power. To me, it seems like this child wants the doll because everyone else in preschool thinks HM is cool. To me, that sounds like the beginning of peer pressure. :shrug:

While the dolls may not be sexual (I haven't looked that closely), it is still promoting (IMO) a show and interests that are not IMO age-appropriate.

I admit, I personally am not a fan of commercial characters in general (age appropriate or otherwise). My DS relates fine to other children his age even though he doesn't watch the popular TV shows. He's almost 5 and it really has yet to be an issue. He's had adults and kids ask him about certain shows, and he just shrugs or looks confused, and generally everyone moves on to a different subject. He doesn't seem to care that he doesn't know, and they don't seem to care either. :shrug:

[fivi2]

Just wanted to add Packaging Girlhood to the books that Brittone mentioned earlier. It is another good one.


As far as the actual question goes, I struggle with the grey areas. I would not let my 3 yos watch the show. period. But if they saw a doll in the store and wanted it, not knowing who she was or what she stood for, but because she has a guitar (They are way into guitars right now) I don't know... I might buy the doll just to be a doll that they liked. MIL has bought them a ton of Dora stuff. We don't watch the show (I don't like it, not there is anything wrong with it). So the Dora dolls are just dolls - no baggage...

I have seen rock star only hearts club dolls at Tuesday morning, if that helps anyone :)

eta: we aren't in school and most of their playmates aren't into characters (well, except Thomas) so this hasn't been an issue for us.

[egoldber]

While the dolls may not be sexual (I haven't looked that closely), it is still promoting (IMO) a show and interests that are not IMO age-appropriate.

This is my issue. I think HM has some value for an older child. But I don't think it's approrpriate for my 7 year old, much less a 4 year old.

I know plenty of people who let their kids watch HM and HSM and don't see anything wrong with it. I just don't get what the hurry is (by society) to push kids into things that are beyond them developmentally.

ETA: If she saw a doll in the store, I would just say it was for older kids and move on.

[lisams]

There is a difference between peer pressure and having common interests. If the little girls in the class like Hannah Montana I don't see the problem in allowing your child to have a little something to help them bond. It sounds like its sort of a "girl power" thing in this scenario.


I've found the toys that DD wanted sooooo bad because so and so had it and it was soooooo cool end up not being played with. It ends up being a waste of money. Now if DD decided to buy it with her own money, if she wanted it enough that she would save her money up for it then more power to her! As long as I'm buying the toys, I feel like they should be things that have enough "play value" for the cost and won't end up in the garage sale pile six months later.

[o_mom]

While the dolls may not be sexual (I haven't looked that closely), it is still promoting (IMO) a show and interests that are not IMO age-appropriate.



:yeahthat:

This is why books like Transformers (movie branded stuff) being in a preschool book order irritates the crap out of me. They have no business promoting PG-13 movies to 3 and 4 yos. HM deals with teen issues - dating, boy/girl relationships, etc. This is not something I would want a 4 yo trying to figure out. There is also a healthy dose of materialism thrown in. (yeah, I've seen it - lots of tween nieces)

[irie i]

I've found the toys that DD wanted sooooo bad because so and so had it and it was soooooo cool end up not being played with. It ends up being a waste of money. Now if DD decided to buy it with her own money, if she wanted it enough that she would save her money up for it then more power to her! As long as I'm buying the toys, I feel like they should be things that have enough "play value" for the cost and won't end up in the garage sale pile six months later.

This totally makes sense...but doesn't have anything to do with what I said...so I am not sure why you quoted me. :) In any case, it is obviously up to each parent to decide what their children should have/watch/play with etc. I just see so many people on here asking about different characters from television, etc. Rather than explain things to their children some people would prefer to just nix it out of their lives. I totally understand that...but there will come a time when they cannot police every single thing their children come across...and it makes sense to instill values and limitations beforehand. :) I can 100% understand where some posters are coming from when they say that Hannah Montana isn't age appropriate for a four year old. Duh...of course it isn't...its a tween show...but the doll in and of itself, in my opinion, doesn't represent anything negative...except maybe for bad clothing choices! hehehe Also, the doll itself doesn't represent "Miley Cyrus" to a four year old child...and if a four year old child is accessing the computer to find the questionable photos of Miley Cyrus the problem, again, lies with the parents. I have to say again...stop looking to stars to be role models...explain the difference between fantasy and character portrayals and the actors who play these roles. You are asking for trouble if you don't.

[fivi2]

This totally makes sense...but doesn't have anything to do with what I said...so I am not sure why you quoted me. :) In any case, it is obviously up to each parent to decide what their children should have/watch/play with etc. I just see so many people on here asking about different characters from television, etc. Rather than explain things to their children some people would prefer to just nix it out of their lives. I totally understand that...but there will come a time when they cannot police every single thing their children come across...and it makes sense to instill values and limitations beforehand. :) I can 100% understand where some posters are coming from when they say that Hannah Montana isn't age appropriate for a four year old. Duh...of course it isn't...its a tween show...but the doll in and of itself, in my opinion, doesn't represent anything negative...except maybe for bad clothing choices! hehehe Also, the doll itself doesn't represent "Miley Cyrus" to a four year old child...and if a four year old child is accessing the computer to find the questionable photos of Miley Cyrus the problem, again, lies with the parents. I have to say again...stop looking to stars to be role models...explain the difference between fantasy and character portrayals and the actors who play these roles. You are asking for trouble if you don't.

You sound like my sister :) I don't think most parents here stick their heads in the sand when it comes to popular culture. I think most of us do try to limit what and when our children are exposed to things. We try to be the filter, so that when our children are exposed they have a grounding in what we believe. (or at least, that is my opinion).

I am not sure whether I would outlaw the doll if my children had absolutely no idea who it represented. (But if that were the case, I could probably substitute a generic rock star doll with no issue).

However, I do disagree with you to an extent. The doll does represent something. As an extreme - would you have bought your child "Joe Camel" clothing when it was around? or that beer dog? To a child it doesn't represent smoking or drinking, it is a funny animal. But to me, allowing that into my home would be condoning it - saying it is okay for my kids (which is isn't, sowouldn't be in my house). So if I don't think something is okay, then why would I allow it in any form? I don't think I am explaining this well...

Again, there are a lot of grey areas, and I don't know where I stand on all of them!

Again, I have to recommend the books - Packaging Girlhood, Consuming Kids, Buy Buy Baby, etc. They do a lot to explain the issues that some people have.

[Ceepa]

I don't know. If DD saw the doll and liked it for the doll's merits (outfit, size, superpowers -- hee hee) then that would be one thing, but OP said her DD doesn't even know about HM except that the other girls say she's cool. To me that is the difference and would keep me from spending my money on a HM doll. It's like when kids see something on TV and HAVE TO HAVE IT. You have to decide whether the kids are just getting sucked in by marketing or whether there is more value to the product. So the question I would ask myself is do I think she would enjoy the doll as a open-ended toy beyond just being able to tell her friends she has one, too?

[lisams]

This totally makes sense...but doesn't have anything to do with what I said...so I am not sure why you quoted me. :) .

Sorry, kids are running around like hooligans so my brain is a little distracted!

[o_mom]

I can 100% understand where some posters are coming from when they say that Hannah Montana isn't age appropriate for a four year old. Duh...of course it isn't...its a tween show...but the doll in and of itself, in my opinion, doesn't represent anything negative...except maybe for bad clothing choices! hehehe Also, the doll itself doesn't represent "Miley Cyrus" to a four year old child...and if a four year old child is accessing the computer to find the questionable photos of Miley Cyrus the problem, again, lies with the parents. I have to say again...stop looking to stars to be role models...explain the difference between fantasy and character portrayals and the actors who play these roles. You are asking for trouble if you don't.

The doll does represent HM and the show to the 4 yo. If not, then why would another doll not be a suitable replacement? Why would she need a HM doll to 'fit in' at preschool?

The fact that she knows the difference and is not going to be satisfied with anything other than the HM doll is because of Disney marketing. They are very good at what they do. They build a brand and make sure that it is coveted before a child is old enough to understand the marketing ploy.

Really, the issue is not parents not explaining HM vs. MC to a 4 yo. It is the fact that a 4 yo cannot grasp the concept of the difference between an actor and the character he or she plays. In this case you are talking about a show where you have a real life actress MC also performs as HM and then plays a high school student who plays a rock star. Most adults have trouble figuring out what is going on. A 4 yo has no chance there.

On the surface, yes, one doll isn't the end of the world and life would go on. It is more the overall concept of recognizing marketing, understanding the developmental level of a child and deciding if the messages that character promotes are something that you want for your child.

[greatcanuk]

I find the OP's dilemma interesting. I witnessed my 5 yr old DD and her 6 yr old cousin giggling in front of a pretend mirror--they were taking turns over which of them looked like Hannah Montana (aka 'pretty'). I'm pretty sure neither of them have seen the show, and that they were responding to what classmates have said or HM products they have seen in Target or on commercials. When DD was 4, she called anything 'hip', Spratz girls. She didn't even know they were Bratz not Spratz. Again, she had never seen the show.

I like the idea of substituting Travel Karito Kids or Groovy Girls for an HM or HSM Barbie type doll, both of which are soft dolls that are dressed hip yet not sexy.
I also recommend the books pp's have mentioned--Consuming Kids and Buy Buy Baby. Totally eye-opening. By the way, I meant to read Packaging Girlhood; thanks for the reminder.

Camille

[brittone2]

On the surface, yes, one doll isn't the end of the world and life would go on. It is more the overall concept of recognizing marketing, understanding the developmental level of a child and deciding if the messages that character promotes are something that you want for your child.

ITA with your post above, especially this part. If my child walked through a store and picked out a HM doll without really knowing what she was or represented, and I was okay with the attire, etc. I might be more likely to consider it. However, if she wanted the doll because everyone else at preschool/school had her convinced that HM was cool, then that's different, IMO.

Honestly, I probably would still not buy the doll, because if playmates, family members, etc. saw it, they would instantly start talking about how it was HM and then inevitably the child catches on that there is more to this doll than it being *just* a doll. They also then recognize that there is a lot of other merchandise with the same image as the doll, and they want that (a tee shirt, pencils, a cup, a backpack, a lunchbox, etc.). So where does it end? Is going to end with the doll? Is it *just* a doll? THe amount of HM merchandise and advertising is absurd!

That's my dilemma when I think about how big of a deal is buying *just* a HM doll, at least for my own family.

edited to fix typo

[kijip]

but the doll in and of itself, in my opinion, doesn't represent anything negative...

That is a value judgement we each get to make as parents. To me a doll like HM very well could represent something negative to a 4 year old girl- consumerism, peer pressure (if the motive was that everyone else has one), inappropriately sexy clothes for a young girl, buying something that might not have a lot of play value, buying something that shows that girls need to dress up in a certain way or wear make-up.

Many Disney channel kids shows reflect values and stereotypes that I am not comfortable with...it would be one thing if things like HSM and HM were for kids that were actually say 13-15 years old. But let's face it, what 14 year old is into HM? None that I know. It's all marketed very effectively towards elementary school kids under about 11-12 and as young as toddlerhood as far as I have seen. So teens are supposed to be adults and tweens are supposed to be teens and toddlers are supposed to be school age kids or something? It's bizarre.

[kristenk]

I feel like this thread has expanded a bit beyond my initial post - which is totally fine. I'm assuming it has b/c I don't think I mentioned I'm trying to find some tween role model for my child (I'm not, btw:wink2: ) or said that DD was trying to fit in at preschool, etc. If anyone was directing those remarks to me, please let me know b/c I'm assuming that they're comments in general on HM, Disney marketing, kids growing up too fast, etc.

DD *does* know what HM looks like, so a substitution doll wouldn't work. Plus, she doesn't really like "kid" dolls, so it just wouldn't be her thing.

I don't think that she wants one to fit in with her class or sees it as a key to social acceptance. She's pretty much accepted as is right now and I'm not really sure if the other kids in her class have HM dolls. I'm guessing that the majority don't.

I think that the HM interest at school probably started with a child who has an older sister who is into HM. Younger sister thinks that what older sister likes is cool and "HM is cool" is born. That's my thinking, at least. (Honestly, I'm not sure how DD can identify HM from 20 paces. Maybe a picture on something at school??)

One day DD was pretending to be Hannah Montana. No, she didn't go around the house singing. No, she didn't dress up in different outfits and try to look cool. She tried to use her best manners possible and ate vegetables. :ROTFLMAO: (Now you can see why HM is sort of tempting!;) )

I really appreciate all of the different viewpoints I've heard and all of the comments in this thread.

[irie i]

I feel like this thread has expanded a bit beyond my initial post - which is totally fine. I'm assuming it has b/c I don't think I mentioned I'm trying to find some tween role model for my child (I'm not, btw:wink2: ) or said that DD was trying to fit in at preschool, etc. If anyone was directing those remarks to me, please let me know b/c I'm assuming that they're comments in general on HM, Disney marketing, kids growing up too fast, etc.



:) Just to clarify since I mentioned the role model thing...I wasn't directing it toward you at all.

[brittone2]

I feel like this thread has expanded a bit beyond my initial post - which is totally fine. I'm assuming it has b/c I don't think I mentioned I'm trying to find some tween role model for my child (I'm not, btw:wink2: ) or said that DD was trying to fit in at preschool, etc. If anyone was directing those remarks to me, please let me know b/c I'm assuming that they're comments in general on HM, Disney marketing, kids growing up too fast, etc.

DD *does* know what HM looks like, so a substitution doll wouldn't work. Plus, she doesn't really like "kid" dolls, so it just wouldn't be her thing.

I don't think that she wants one to fit in with her class or sees it as a key to social acceptance. She's pretty much accepted as is right now and I'm not really sure if the other kids in her class have HM dolls. I'm guessing that the majority don't.

I think that the HM interest at school probably started with a child who has an older sister who is into HM. Younger sister thinks that what older sister likes is cool and "HM is cool" is born. That's my thinking, at least. (Honestly, I'm not sure how DD can identify HM from 20 paces. Maybe a picture on something at school??)

One day DD was pretending to be Hannah Montana. No, she didn't go around the house singing. No, she didn't dress up in different outfits and try to look cool. She tried to use her best manners possible and ate vegetables. :ROTFLMAO: (Now you can see why HM is sort of tempting!;) )

I really appreciate all of the different viewpoints I've heard and all of the comments in this thread.

I think we just ended up expanding into why so many little girls are getting interested in HM in general, marketing, etc. Much of what was said I don't think was directed to you at all, but since this is kind of a common issue, a lot of points were brought up that might not pertain to your child directly.

I did mention that I consider it the beginnings of peer pressure to an extent, as I interpreted what I read as all of the girls at preschool liking HM, and even without knowing who she is, it spreads and becomes the "cool" toy, etc. To me, that sounds like the beginnings of peer pressure, but perhaps that's not how you experienced it (and obviously you know your dd!!). However, even if you don't feel that was the case with your own DD, I think preschool/early school years are a common time for kids to start wanting certain toys, etc. because "everyone else" has them. If that isn't the case with your DD, I apologize for overgeneralizing :)

I think the scenario you mentioned is just really common and brings up a lot of issues that perhaps don't pertain to your particular circumstances, but are challenges encountered by many parents today (marketing, teen/tween interests pushed down on younger and younger children, what is "girl power", what is age appropriate, what is too sexy or too image-driven, etc.).

I think you just gave everyone a good jumping off point. I certainly think you should do whatever you think reflects your own family values and comfort level.