Jewish preschool - Update

[elektra]

I just got back from the school. I really liked it. The Director gave me a tour and DD just ran right along with the other kids. The classrooms looked really nice. Teachers were great with the kids, all very calm and gentle. Kids were happy. Lots of play-based activities. But at the end when I asked about the pricing, and wait list, she asked if I was a member of the congregation. When I told her that no, I wasn't actually even Jewish, the tone of things definitely changed. It was funny though because it was like she didn't believe me at first! She was like, "you're not?, your name is a Hebrew name you know. Do you know what it means?" I did in fact know the Hebrew meaning of my name and told her as much and also mentioned that I was named after my great grandmother. So she goes, "was she Jewish?", and I said, "as far as I know, no she wasn't." She then said that there were some non-Jewish students but that it was mostly Jewish. Anyway, she then started telling me that the members have priority (understood), and that religion was a big part of things there, as I did get a taste of, listening to the kids sing a song in Hebrew (but also had a Twinkle Twinkle Little Star verse.) So I just told her that I was open to it if they were, meaning that I was open to DD participating in any religious activities through the school if they were open to having DD attend. Her next words were, "there is another really nice preschool down the street- St. Paul's". :(.
So, I will keep looking, although I will not rule this out. Maybe she was just worried I was totally clueless about the fact that there would be Jewish activities or something? She was still very nice and gave me the forms to fill out and everything.
The only thing that I am somewhat concerned about is that the school isn't accredited. I'll have to look into how important that is.

---------------------------
I am starting to set up some preschool visits. I was thinking that I wanted DD to go for 2 days a week this fall (she will be 2 1/2) but I am kind of rethinking that now and I may wait until she is 3 1/2. I still want to start checking some placed out though.
Anyway, my first visit it to a Jewish preschool that is affiliated with the synagogue at the same site.
One piece of advice I got was that the religious part of the school shouldn't influence my decision on the preschool if I otherwise liked the school. But will they just turn me away since I am not Jewish? I will ask about the religious aspect of things but even if I am comfortable with it, will they be?
Any non-Jews have kids that go to a Jewish preschool?

[AmyZ]

DD1 goes to a Jewish preschool (we are Jewish), but 80% of the kids at the school are NOT Jewish. I send her b/c it is one of the best programs. I'm thrilled for us that it is a Jewish program, but I also looked at Christian programs as well. I wanted to find the best fit for us.

[egoldber]

It will depend on the program, but many Jewish preschools are very accepting of non-Jews. Sarah and now Amy went to preschool at the JCC (Jewish Community Center). There are MANY non-Jewish children at our school. In part, many families are attracted to the program because of the dietary laws. Since the building is kosher, all meals are required to be vegetarian (to avoid the whole meat and dairy issue), so many people who are vegetarian will send their children to the preschool because it makes their life simpler.

The religious aspects of our program consist of a daily blessing over the meals, Shabbot on Fridays and, of course, celebration of the Jewish holidays. Another thing to consider is that they will not celebrate some holidays that you might not expect.....things like Halloween, Valentine's Day, St. Patrick's Day, etc. And there will be lots of holidays that you can't pronounce. ;) Also, again because of the dietary laws, we are not allowed to bring in any home baked goods for class parties, etc.

FWIW, DH and I are not religious, but consider ourselves a family with a culturally Jewish background. We have never felt uncomfortable.

[ThreeofUs]

DS1 goes to a Jewish preschool. We ADORE it, and they were very good about answering all of our questions about whether DS would feel excluded because we are not Jewish. Just talk to them; as with any preschool, if you get a bad vibe, then it's not the place for you, kwim?

[mikeys_mom]

I think that it really depends on the particular preschool. Most JCC type programs will accept non-Jews and depending on the location may have a large number of non-Jewish children.
The Jewish preschool that we sent DS to did not have any non-Jewish children. I'm not sure if it is because of a policy or not.

Also, I think it depends on what type of synagogue it is affiliated with. If it is Orthodox or Conservative, there is less of a chance that there will be that many non-Jewish children, and they may be more likely to have a policy that would only accept Jewish children.

I would discuss it with them. I'm sure that you are not the first person to ask them this question.

[Fairy]

I can't imagine that any Jewish preschool is going to turn you away. DS is in a Jewish Preschool, a JCYS, which is far more cultural than religious. And that's good for me, we're not religious, but we feel the culture is important. Lots of non-Jews there. What you will find, however, is that they're likely to either keep kosher or serve food in a kosher style (so never pork products, never dairy with meat). And I'd be surprised if they did Christmas Tree crafts at holiday time. But accepting of non-Jews, certainly. If it's a very observant or Orthodox program, then you might find some challenges with acceptance, but those are not for the mainstream. There's actually a Baptist preschool near my home that we're thinking about for before/after care when DS goes to school (the JCYS doesn't bus to my area).

It's so hard to find a preschool. I hope you find something that works for you! The one off-topic piece of advice I want to throw out there is that consistency may be better. We started with two days in the beginning, and it was difficult. Five days out of sight was out of mind, and by the time the next week rolled around, he didn't want to go. We bumped it up to three days, and the consistency made a world of difference. Just a thought. Good luck!

[Fairy]

Also, note that the JCC is affiliated wtih the Jewish Federation, and the JCYS is private.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Ds1 went to a reform Jewish preschool and he was the only non-Jewish kid there but it was never, ever a problem. They were welcoming and included us even in after school events centered around religious holidays. There were times that I felt a little weird not being a member of the congregation, I admit. But, it was a good preschool experience. I tried to analyze the school simply with the criteria I would have for school and took the religion out of the equation when I was deciding.

Beth

[HIU8]

DS and DN go to the Jewish Community Center preschool and DD will start next September. We are Jewish, but, the program is amazing and there are some very very good teachers at this program. That is why we chose it. There are some non-jewish children in the program-one little boy last year was in DS's class b/c this was the most economical option for his parents. At our school they teach and celebrate major and minor Jewish holidays. Most of the songs are religiously oriented (for song-time). They are also taught some hebrew. They celebrate Shabbat on Friday's. They do not celebrate or teach about Halloween, Valentine's Day or St. Patty's Day, Christmas or Easter. Oh, they get all the Jewish holiday's off, so the fall has a ton of days off that do not correspond with days you would have off from work etc... also, our JCC allows you to bring in kosher vegetarian meat (like Morningstar Farms)--so if you have a child who doesn't eat a whole lot of dairy, there is another option.

[Fairy]

Good point about Halloween and Valentine's Day, I wanted to expand on that. JCC's do not celebrate those. I have a huge problem with that, simply cuz the religious basis for both of those holidays was overwritten a very long time ago (in some cases, centuries ago). So, I specifically chose not to send DS to a JCC. Some Jewish programs (private or via Synagogues) are more cultural and don't have a problem with these holidays as an Americanized celebration. So, if that's important to you, be sure to check with the school about how they acknowledge those holidays.

[elektra]

Thanks for all of the advice and thoughts. The website does say that it's a "Conservative Congregation" so I would imagine that is probably JCC vs. JCYS ? I still think it's worth checking out though based on all the feedback here.
Interesting about the holidays, I mean I obviously didn't expect a Christmas celebration ;), but I didn't realize about the other holidays.
I don't think I would have a problem with the holidays not being celebrated at the school actually. I myself am a fan of the holidays mentioned but if I love the school I think I can live with not having it be an official part of how they do things there.
The woman I spoke to on the phone was really nice, even after I mistakenly suggested scheduling our meeting for Friday morning which she pointed out was during Shabbat, doh!
I probably won't announce that I am not Jewish right away but I will probably ask at some point if there are any non-Jewish kids that are part of the school. I don't think that would be inappropriate, do you? There is not some minimum ratio that I would be looking for or anything but I might feel weird if DD was the only non-Jewish child there.
And the food thing sound like more of a plus than anything. We can just save our cheeseburgers for home. :)

[tylersmama]

What a timely post. I'm trying to get preschool figured out for the fall, and I have a visit set up with a Jewish preschool on Thursday. I have a friend whose daughter attends the school, and she said that it's probably about 2/3 non-Jewish or interfaith families at the school. She has a Jewish background but they are not raising their daughter Jewish.

According to the brochure I got from the school, they celebrate the Jewish holidays, do NOT celebrate Halloween, Christmas, Valentine's Day, and Easter. The only one of those that concerns me at all is Christmas, and that's just because we're typically out of town over the holidays. They say a Hebrew blessing before snacks, go to a ceremony in the temple once a month, and celebrate Shabbat on Thursday/Friday.

I have to admit, I had a mini freak-out when I got the brochure and read all of the above. Not because I think it's a bad thing to have my non-Jewish kid exposed to all of that. More I think because *I* know so little about Judaism and the Jewish traditions. I was worried that I wouldn't know how to talk with DS about things that they do at school. I still do have some slight concerns about that, but I kind of think that the value of having him exposed to those type of cultural differences outweighs my concerns. I do intend to ask about their experiences with non-Jewish children when we go in for our tour.

Actually, the thing I'm concerned about most at this point is that I'm afraid I'm going to love it and it's pretty $$$$. I'm also touring a co-op preschool tomorrow, and I'm kind of hoping that I totally fall in love with it, since it's the cheapest of the bunch by a lot! :p

[Zansu]

Our JCC preschool sends home an educational packet for every major holiday. So you will know what's going on, the meaning of the holiday, why and how it's celebrated, and the associated prayers (transliterated and in English).

[saschalicks]

Both boys go to the JCC preschool and in both of their classes about 50% of the kids are NOT Jewish (we are). We did not pick it for it's relgious offiliation, although that was a bonus, we picked it b/c of it's location and the reviews we got. We are very happy w/the education/care they get there.

Ones affiliated w/the synagogue may require you to be of the faith, but again it will depend on that synagogue and school.

[HIU8]

We are Jewish, but here is how we handle the holidays not celebrated at school.

Halloween-DS and DD get to dress up and go trick or treating in the neighborhood to a few houses. There is really no discussion in the house as to what Halloween is/used to be other than a holiday where you wear a costume and get candy. I did have to explain to DS that Halloween is not a Jewish holiday and therefore, he cannot wear his costume to school. He accepted that b/c he wears his costume at Purim and gets candy and hamentashen at school and at shul.

For Christmas this year we actually had to sit him down and talk about why we don't have a Christmas tree and why it isn't celebrated at school. He accepted it, but still is talking about how he wants a tree in the house to decorate (that is about all he gets about the holiday at this point--his neighbors have a tree with lights and he wants one).

We so far have not had to get into Valentine's day with him. We may have to this year though. But, again, we will tell him it is not a Jewish holiday, so it is not celebrated at school, and we can acknowlege it at home by reminding each other how much we love each other.

We have not had to explain Easter to him yet either. But since we have Passover close to Easter there is a lot of energy at home and school focused on that.

[maydaymommy]

I am (was) an early childhood educator and I taught in Jewish preschools for many years and now I am a parent of a toddler, who I hope will go to a Jewish preschool.

In Chicago I taught at a synagogue school and a JCC school, neither of which had non-Jewish kids. With very few exceptions the students had at least one Jewish parent. Here in Pennsylvania I have taught at a school that's part of a Conservative synagogue and it is VERY non-Jewish. Not only are most of the kids not Jewish, but when I first started teaching there only about one teacher in each classroom was Jewish. Classrooms did minimal Jewish activities. Maybe like one "craft" per holiday. In this preschool and in the nearest other Jewish preschool there is a full-day kindergarten which is attended by MANY non-Jewish kids whose parents want a full-day program.

As a parent who has been "inside" I hope I am able to find a quality Jewish preschool for my child. One thing I really value is the plethora of sensory experiences that a Jewish early childhood education gives a young child. There are smells and sights and lights and tastes that go along with so many Jewish rituals. I think exposure to these things benefits any child in such a program.

As a Jew, I value the exposure to these rituals and the familiarity a young child can gain with "Jewishness" in general. Also, I really like the "values" that should be inherent in a quality Jewish program. These, I think, are things that would appeal to anyone regardless of religion. There are aspects of every day life in school that can be reinforced and put into context differently in a Jewish preschool. For instance, we take care of animals, we are nice to our friends, we help people and take care of the earth, etc. We don't do these things just because they are right, but because "our Jewish people" do these things. We learn some of these things in The Torah, which tells us many stories of our Jewish people, etc.

Additionally, IME, some Jewish preschools are way ahead of the curve in terms of implementing more progressive methods in the classroom. I know that when I was in Chicago there were Reggio classrooms, more play based programs and many programs were far more project oriented than in typical programs.

Unfortunately, that is not the case where I live (and taught) now and I am hoping we move so my son can go to a preschool that is both Jewish and sophisticated in their understanding of children.

Not all Jewish preschools are the same. But most should be inclusive and most have good things to offer kids of all creeds.

** Also, as a parent and as a teacher I see the draw back of the lack of diversity in most Jewish preschool classrooms. I don't know if it is the best thing for my kid to be a school at which all the other kids look just the same and multiculturalism is something illustrated in a book....

hth

[newmomto1]

This is so interesting to me!
DS is in his 4th year at Jewish preschool (at our congregation). I am also on the board & DD is there as well.
We have had children from interfaith families. But I've never heard of a child there who didn't have at least one Jewish parent. I am sure our school wouldn't turn someone away.
I find it interesting though, & pretty cool that non-jews would want to send their kids to a Jewish school :)

[erosenst]

PP's have all had very good points.

One thing to check out, which likely won't be an issue at a Conservative congregation - but if your child is the only/one of a few non-Jewish kids, try to have conversations with several teachers/parents how they feel about having non-Jewish kids there. As PP's have said, many programs are very inclusive (while still celebrating only the Jewish holidays/using Hebrew/etc), while others...not quite so much.

As a "one end of the spectrum" story...we're Jewish, as are DD's guardians should something happen to us. The only stipulation in our will is that she not attend the (Orthodox) Hebrew Day School (which starts in pre-K) where the guardians live - not only is it not inclusive to non-Jews (pretty sure none attend), it is non-inclusive to Reform Jews. Ummmm...no thanks.

Lastly, it was buried in a PP - but be aware the school will likely be closed for a lot of holidays that not only you, but many Jews, have never heard of/thought about...

Emily

[StantonHyde]

DS is in the JCC for kindergarten this year and I will send DD there for pre-k next year. In our community, the JCC is very diverse as far as religious backgrounds and people from other countries (it is near the University so it attracts that crowd). It is about 60% Jewish. Both DS's teachers are not Jewish. We're not Jewish. One of the parents held a big Halloween party at their house and just about everybody showed up. It was a BLAST! And we are having a wine and cheese party next week.

The school sends home info on each holiday. DS teaches us a LOT!! He lit the hannukiah every night and said the prayers in Hebrew! He asks alot about the differences in holidays so I get books about Hanukkah and Christmas and we compare the 2. I am sure I will do the same with Passover and Easter. Its a great talking point. DS did not like celebrating Halloween but I told him he would celebrate Purim--I can't wait for that one myself, sounds like a lot of fun! And I just ask questions and say things like, please pardon my ignorance.... People are very nice to me despite my lack of knowledge about holiday specificss.

This year, he was off a total of 8 days in October for Jewish holidays!! It was nuts for everyone. But next year, alot of the holidays fall on the weekend--just depends on the year. That is a challenge for me because I work, but we flexed schedules and it turned out fine.

The JCC school is NAEYC accredited and has had an awesome curriculum/school for a long time. I love their "Ethical Start" program based on sayings such as "Who is strong?" who is wise? etc. The kids held a bake sale and collected money to give presents to children in the homeless shelter. Their school is just one of the best around--period.

Because they are in the JCC, they have great afterschool programs. DS is taking Karate, rock climbing, and sports seals. They also have swimming and dance. They have before and afterschool care. The kosher style meal thing is no big deal--no peanut butter is worse for us :p

[elektra]

Update in original post.

[Fairy]

Oh crud. I don't like the sound of this. As a Jew that sends her Cashew DS to a culturally Jewish preschool, I am utterly disappointed by what I'm hearing. There are definitely some religiously afilliated schools of all faiths out there that are unofficially non-inclusive. And it's terribly sad. It really sounds to me like this may be one of them. I, personally, don't like alot of religion in my son's schooling and plan to send him to a religious edcuation of his own apart from actual school. You're more open to this as a non-Jew as I am as a Jew! Which is wonderful of you. This is is why I chose a culturally Jewish program and not a religious one; there is a difference.

However, I know of many JCC's that are more than inclusive of non-Jewish kids. This school sounds from what you're saying like it's afilliated with a specific congregation. If that congregation is Conservative, then their approach does not surprise me. They clearly were trying to let you down easy and say no to you wtihout actually saying no -- by recommending St. Paul's.

To me, this is a clear sign. Did she give you a straight answer on pricing and wait list? Did she clearly say there would be availability? I would make her answer you. If you like the school, truly, then make them pony up the info and not leave you hanging. It may be a wonderful program, regardless of the approach to non-Jews, so if you're feeling comfortable there, then force them into answers and not beating around the bush.

Keep us updated. I really want you to find the resolution you were hoping for!

-- Fairy

[SnuggleBuggles]

:( I'm sorry her tone totally changed on you.

My ds's preschool was not accredited but that didn't concern me. Accreditation is mostly a paperwork thing. My SIL is the assistant director of a well regarding preschool and she said they are considering not renewing their accreditation b/c their reputation is solid, their practices won't change and they felt that the time and energy it took to get everything in order for the process took away from the program. I saw this in person at ds1's kindergarten (which was part of a preschool) when he was there. There was this level of intensity behind the scenes that carried over to the whole school. I'd rather they just spend that energy into educating my child. Accreditation is a good thing but I wouldn't rule out schools that didn't have it.

GL!!
Beth

[elektra]

Did she give you a straight answer on pricing and wait list? Did she clearly say there would be availability? I would make her answer you. If you like the school, truly, then make them pony up the info and not leave you hanging. It may be a wonderful program, regardless of the approach to non-Jews, so if you're feeling comfortable there, then force them into answers and not beating around the bush.

That's the thing, she still was thorough in going over the pricing and wait list stuff on the forms with me, even after the St. Paul's comment. It could be that she was being polite, and I of course do not want to send DD anywhere where she wouldn't be welcome or somewhere I didn't feel comfortable. However, the place seemed really nice and I just don't want to rule it out quite yet or cower away based on the Director's initial reaction to my non-Jewishness. ;)
I am not religious (in any religion) so the religious part of any preschool is just something that I will have to deal with no matter what school she goes to probably, since most of the ones I am looking at have some religious affiliation.

[tylersmama]

I would maybe give them another chance, since you really liked the school. Maybe call and speak to her and just tell her that the impression that you got was that she was steering you elsewhere and ask if that was the case. It could be, as others have mentioned, that she just wanted to make sure that you truly were comfortable with the religious aspect of it. That's my impression, based on the information you've given.

I toured the jewish preschool I was looking at last week, and while I did like it, I toured a parent co-op that I LOVED the day before, and it just didn't quite measure up. I'm still using the jewish school as my back-up (there's a lottery to get into the co-op), but it's twice as much as the other school, too. The one I looked at is also attached to a congregation but was very open and welcoming. I asked the director a few questions about how *I* would be able to discuss things that DS learned at school with him at home since I'm clueless for the most part about Judaism, and she was very helpful, showing me a book that they have available for parents that has most of the information in it. She said their rabbi is also very helpful with educating the non-Jewish parents, if they ask. I was pretty comfortable with the situation, they're just way more expensive, and I liked the other school a little better!

[kransden]

I am from St. Louis which has a zillion Catholic schools. One of my Education professors was someone fairly high up in the Catholic education system. He would often have problems with non-Catholic parents with how religious the school was. I know this sounds crazy, but it's true. So maybe the director of the school was afraid of these issues.