Reading assessment?

[sarahsthreads]

Sorry in advance for the novel. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this whole thing so my thoughts are kind of scattered right now...

OK. So, we had DD1's parent/teacher conference this morning, and her teachers are very, very concerned that she's not going to have a good experience in kindergarten because...she reads too well. They strongly suggested that we have an independent reading assessment done before kindergarten registration, or at least before the assessments that the school does, because they don't even test reading abilities in our district for incoming kindergartners.

Apparently, when I told the head teacher that DD1 was reading at the beginning of the year, she thought I meant that DD1 was recognizing a few sight words here and there, and never imagined that what I really meant was that she can read Magic Tree House and other such chapter books without assistance - and comprehend them, answer questions about them, and make up back stories to fill in for incomplete plot lines. Honestly, I haven't put anything in front of DD1 that she *can't* read, including the newspaper - though it's not like we subscribe to the New York Times or anything. ;) Anyway, the teacher is concerned that when we write on the registration form that DD1 is reading, they will not take that seriously.

And so now I'm concerned. Because we live in an amazing school district, and while I knew it was unusual for DD1 to be reading as well as she does, I didn't think it was *that* far out of the norm. Her teachers said that she's generally advanced in other areas as well, but clearly (and I think so as well) she's not emotionally or socially ready to skip a grade or anything quite so drastic.

At preschool right now they're working on recognizing letter sounds and trying to sound out simple words. So the teachers have to ask DD1 not to answer when they ask the class to do something, and they're concerned about her starting to feel like it's a bad thing that she always knows the answer. They try to find ways for her to shine instead, by sometimes having her stand up and read the poem they're working on for the class or other things like that. I'm not so worried that she's seeing her ability to read as a bad thing based on three mornings a week in preschool, but if it's like that five full days a week next year I could see how she might start to feel that way.

So, how would I go about getting DD1 assessed? Is that something that I could get done at one of those centers like Kumon or Sylvan? I have no idea if it will help us out, but if it means she'll have a better chance at getting a teacher who can work with her to provide at least a little bit of a challenge it might be worth it.

Thanks for any advice or help - I can't even believe my little girl is old enough that I'm even having to start to worry about kindergarten already!

Sarah

[WatchingThemGrow]

Can you contact the counselor at the school she'll be attending and ask them to help you navigate they system there? Just share your preschool's concerns, your "mama" experience with DD, and give them a heads-up so they kinda have an idea while placing students. The counselor will likely be in on the class formation discussions. As a K teacher of 4 years (8 more yrs in 1-3), I never had a huge sign that said "Hey, this kid can read FAR above grade level!" but I always had one of those kids each year. There was still plenty of stuff for those children to pick up socially, play-wise, etc., Our district has a pretty strong differentiation requirements where we as teachers were required to show growth with kids at ALL levels - even those like your DD.

There are likely specialists in your district who can help the teacher tailor things to your DD's reading level until she might qualify for academically gifted programs. Ours offered a minimal amount of "specialist" time in K-1 and started more seriously in the 2-3rd grade range. We have a full-time program those super-advanced students become part of - far beyond the scope of regular "gifted" services.

[pinkmomagain]

I guess I'm a little confused about what they want a reading assessment to accomplish? If it's unlikely/unwise your child will skip a grade...and the teacher will *quickly* see for herself how well your dd reads, then why the assessment? I would think the K teacher will supplement your dd with extra work to meet her level and challenge her.

My dd1 started reading at 3.5 yo and I kept her in Montessori for K year so that she could continue her reading trajectory, but in 1st grade she entered the public school and was clearly an advanced reader. Her teacher gave her some more advanced assignments on the side, but there were other topics/area that challenged her (including social) that kept her stimulated.

[sarahsthreads]

Thanks, calling the school district and talking to the counselor might be a better idea. I know there are so many things she's going to be able to learn in kindergarten, and maybe just getting an idea of how they would handle an advanced reader in general would make me feel better!

Sarah :)

[sarahsthreads]

I guess I'm a little confused about what they want a reading assessment to accomplish? If it's unlikely/unwise your child will skip a grade...and the teacher will *quickly* see for herself how well your dd reads, then why the assessment? I would think the K teacher will supplement your dd with extra work to meet her level and challenge her.

My dd1 started reading at 3.5 yo and I kept her in Montessori for K year so that she could continue her reading trajectory, but in 1st grade she entered the public school and was clearly an advanced reader. Her teacher gave her some more advanced assignments on the side, but there were other topics/area that challenged her (including social) that kept her stimulated.
I think their point was that none of us can actually say "she's reading at a ___ grade level". And if we could write down on the registration/parent input forms that she's been tested and reads at a (fill-in-the-blank) grade level they might take that more seriously in terms of class placement.

The other twist is that our school district offers a multi-age environment with K-1, and although it's rumored to be entirely lottery based, I don't know if they might make exceptions for "overqualified" kindergartners. Everyone agreed that that would be an ideal environment for her, but the likelihood that she'd get into it would be quite small. :(

And I know there's lots of other areas that she'll be able to learn and grow in, I'm just worried about her being singled out in a sort of negative way for already reading - if she's always asked to not answer questions, for example.

Sarah :)

[Aarohismom]

We had a similar situation last year with dd1. dd1 and 6 other kids in her KG class were quite an advanced readers. Her teacher formed a advanced reading group. Bought some challenging reading books and 1st grade reading and writing books. She was taught to write answers, ask questions, write paragraphs, make stories etc in the KG. The same teacher got promoted to 1st. Now the whole class is so advanced in reading that they are going to start 3rd grade spellings in few weeks. I know we got lucky with this teacher. Can her teacher do the same kind of training for her? If she reads quite well then imo it is great time to start focussing on writing.

[squimp]

We are concerned about this as well. My DD has been reading for over a year, but they teach reading in 1st grade. I know they grow so much emotionally and physically from pre-K until then, but I was still thinking 'wow, what will she do until then? Will she get bored?' So I spoke to the K and 1st grade teachers at our school's open house this weekend about this very issue this weekend: How do you accomodate the kids who come into K who are already reading? They told me that for reading, they break the group into sort of tracks. They also work on more than sight reading and decoding words, they work on comprehension and filling in holes and relating that story to other stories (which you mentioned). They have to be very flexible, because there is such a range in the K and 1st grade. And they do lots of writing and copying and spelling, all of which reinforce reading and comprehension. So I came away convinced that there is flexibility. I hope your conversations with your school go well.

Honestly it sounds like the preschool is the one having the trouble. There are three advanced readers in my DD's pre-K classroom, and our teachers really are able to make it a positive thing. DD and the other readers will read one:one to other children. I love that. I've never been told that she was asked to not speak out because she knows the answer. I guess that would bother me. That wouldn't work in our classroom!

[nfowife]

When kinder begins, they will do an assessment and will see that she is maxing out on that. Then I would recommend that you meet with the teacher after the first few weeks of school and ask her how your DD's needs will be met. For example, maybe she could go up to first or 2nd grade for reading instruction/groups only; maybe she can participate in the "accelerated reading" program (if the school has one) though kinders don't usually participate (it's an incentive program for reading independently that is computer based); that type of thing. I wouldn't invest a chunk of money in a professional or sylvan-type assessment right now. It's fairly easy to figure out what her reading level is if you need to know, but I don't really think that it is a vital piece of information. The kinder teacher will be able to do a few quick assessments to determine that when kinder begins. Your DD has a right to have her needs met just like any other child and you need to advocate for her that it happens.

[o_mom]

I guess I'm a little confused about what they want a reading assessment to accomplish? If it's unlikely/unwise your child will skip a grade...and the teacher will *quickly* see for herself how well your dd reads, then why the assessment? I would think the K teacher will supplement your dd with extra work to meet her level and challenge her.



IME, it can take a bit for teachers to pick up on it. They can have 20+ students and if they don't actaully sit down and test her they aren't going to see it right away. Those first weeks of school are a flurry of trying to place kids and get them all on the same page for being in a classroom. It may be too late to move her once they figure it out. They also are limited in how much they can differentiate in the class and still keep the other kids on track. Especially if it is a public school, they will be focused on NCLB benchmarks and getting those kids who aren't reading up to level.

Since the school has a program that would help with this (K/1 split class), I think it is important that she be tested before class assignments are made. If you wait until the teacher figures it out, it will most likely be too late to change without major upheaval for the child and the school.

ETA: I think talking with the school counselor before registration is a good place to start. See if they offer any testing/placement or if you need to do it yourself. There are tools you can probably get from the library that you could do yourself and get a rough idea of where she is. All else fails, you can list a few of the titles she is reading and they should hopefully get the picture.

[egoldber]

IME, it can take a bit for teachers to pick up on it. They can have 20+ students and if they don't actaully sit down and test her they aren't going to see it right away. Those first weeks of school are a flurry of trying to place kids and get them all on the same page for being in a classroom. It may be too late to move her once they figure it out. They also are limited in how much they can differentiate in the class and still keep the other kids on track. Especially if it is a public school, they will be focused on NCLB benchmarks and getting those kids who aren't reading up to level.

:yeahthat:

I think you are wise to get an assessment, especially if your district does not do them in advance for incoming K students.


Apparently, when I told the head teacher that DD1 was reading at the beginning of the year, she thought I meant that DD1 was recognizing a few sight words here and there, and never imagined that what I really meant was that she can read Magic Tree House and other such chapter books without assistance - and comprehend them, answer questions about them, and make up back stories to fill in for incomplete plot lines. Honestly, I haven't put anything in front of DD1 that she *can't* read, including the newspaper - though it's not like we subscribe to the New York Times or anything. Anyway, the teacher is concerned that when we write on the registration form that DD1 is reading, they will not take that seriously.

You realize that you're describing a at least a 3/4 grade reading level?

We have struggled with this at school. I told Sarah's school as an incoming first grader that she could read MTH fluently and they didn't believe me until they saw it for themselves.

At some point you have to make a decision about school. If your child is not a good candidate for grade skipping (and it's not really clear to me why she isn't from your post) then your school will undoubtedly basically do nothing for her reading. Nothing. The goal of the school is to get kids *reading at grade level*. Kids who are above grade level, especially more than one or two grades above level, get very little work at their level unless your school has some sort of GT program that starts in K or 1st. Are you OK with that?

At Sarah's school, she is in the highest reading group and they read books well below her level. But I have made the mental decision that since they are working on other things (writing skills, speed of writing, written summarizations of chapter books, etc.) where she is not as advanced, that I am letting it go. I am going to put my faith in the GT program that started next year in 3rd grade and see how it goes.

What really, really irks me is the fact that they have the kids read drivel. At least they could read better stories than the series crap they give them to read.

If we could, I would homeschool Sarah. If that's an option for you, you may consider it. I would also suggest checking out the Gifted forum on MDC. This comes up a lot and it is something that parents of advanced readers really, really struggle with.

[Piglet]

My experience with DS1 (who wasat the same level as your DD at that age) is that he did fine in a regular K class, as long as the teacher could give him reading alternatives. We were in a small private school so it was easy. If he were in a large K, it would be much harder (unless other kids were like him). I agree that the grade 1 reading books were drivel, but then again the kids were really new readers. Now that he is in grade 2, he is reading grade 6+ and the teacher really just gives a lot of encouagement and independen reading time for the kids that can read. It flips to the kids that need extra help are now the ones getting special reading groups. I guess what I am saying is that it equalizes. Reading on its own is a finite skill - once the kids start reading it all clicks and they all read. It isn't like math, where if you master multiplication in K, you have to move on to division and then algebra, etc. I think that knowing her grade level doesn't change anything - I have never been offered anything special for DS1 and if I were offered, I would have declined. He is stll a 7 year old with the emotional, social, physical needs of a 7 year old.

[mamicka]

:yeahthat:

I think you are wise to get an assessment, especially if your district does not do them in advance for incoming K students.



You realize that you're describing a at least a 3/4 grade reading level?

We have struggled with this at school. I told Sarah's school as an incoming first grader that she could read MTH fluently and they didn't believe me until they saw it for themselves.

At some point you have to make a decision about school. If your child is not a good candidate for grade skipping (and it's not really clear to me why she isn't from your post) then your school will undoubtedly basically do nothing for her reading. Nothing. The goal of the school is to get kids *reading at grade level*. Kids who are above grade level, especially more than one or two grades above level, get very little work at their level unless your school has some sort of GT program that starts in K or 1st. Are you OK with that?

At Sarah's school, she is in the highest reading group and they read books well below her level. But I have made the mental decision that since they are working on other things (writing skills, speed of writing, written summarizations of chapter books, etc.) where she is not as advanced, that I am letting it go. I am going to put my faith in the GT program that started next year in 3rd grade and see how it goes.

What really, really irks me is the fact that they have the kids read drivel. At least they could read better stories than the series crap they give them to read.

If we could, I would homeschool Sarah. If that's an option for you, you may consider it. I would also suggest checking out the Gifted forum on MDC. This comes up a lot and it is something that parents of advanced readers really, really struggle with.

I don't have a lot of time, but a big :yeahthat: to Beth's post. DS is reading way above grade level (he's in K) - I don't know what level because he hasn't been officially tested. I just bit the bullet & pulled him out of K to homeschool. His report card came back saying he still reads by memorization - he reads MTH & everything else including the newspaper. I honestly don't know if the teacher doesn't know he reads so well because she hasn't been able to give him any attention, or if she doesn't want to acknowledge that he's so far ahead because that might force her to do something with him.

[Momof3Labs]

DS1 is reading like that (MTH before starting K) and he's still done fine in public K. There is plenty else to learn in his short day there (it's just half-day K) and then we supplement his reading extensively at home. His teacher is well aware of his reading abilities, but he's not the only one in the class who is way ahead on reading. My point is that it has worked out fine so far, and I feel like he's still progressing well on reading. I think that our gifted program starts in second grade, so we have to get through one more year, but I think that the variety of topics in first grade (not just reading) will still keep him interested in school.

DS1 also has extensive interest (and knowledge) about science that isn't even touched on in K but again, it is so easy to supplement that at home.

[eb1]

I sent you a PM.

[kransden]

One of dd's kinder classmates last year reads on a 4/5 grade level! (I know, I checked him.) What the teacher did was have him read his own books while the others worked on their letters. He colored along with the class and did other activities. He needed to learn all the routines for kindergarten. This year, after Xmas they bumped him up to 2nd grade. I haven't checked to see how that is working out.

If they have a gifted program, your dc should be ok.

[Tondi G]

My DS is in the 2nd grade and was having trouble reading last year. We ended up sending him to a private tutor cause his soon to be retiring teacher was NO HELP WHATSOEVER! He caught up in record speed and is now one of the best readers in his class. He is not all that into reading but he LOVES and excels in Math and Science. When his teacher mentioned having him tested for giftedness I wasn't against it but we talked about it a little and there honestly was no real reason for it unless I was planning to try to get him into a gifted magnet program. At his current school they don't offer much for accelerated kids! The way his school does reading assessments is they time the kids and see how many words per minute they can read! You could always pull out a stop watch and time her for one minute and see how many words she reads!

Good luck

[MamaKath]

You have gotten some good advice already, thought I would throw out some ideas as well. I am thinking it is a public school. If so I would definitely contact the school counselor in advance. That way they can help place dc in the best classroom for her. Most likely she will not be the only one reading on that level. As a K teacher I have a minimum of 1 every year, this year I have 4 in my small group reading at that level. In our school (private) that is a 1st grade on/above level reader. I give them more opportunities in classroom for reading, writing, etc. as well as having them go to an enrichment group outside of the classroom with our resource teacher.



So, how would I go about getting DD1 assessed? Is that something that I could get done at one of those centers like Kumon or Sylvan? I have no idea if it will help us out, but if it means she'll have a better chance at getting a teacher who can work with her to provide at least a little bit of a challenge it might be worth it.


Where we live, you would have to go to get educational testing from a licensed psychologist (usually it is recommended to go to one of the big hospitals in our area) for the public school to recognize and follow it. As a parent I looked into this (for dc #1) and felt the expense was not worth it when it would not assure our dc more instruction or opportunities in the public school. We enriched outside of school and ended eventually up switching to private. Had dh agreed I would have homeschooled instead. In the public school our experience was that they teach to the tests which ensure them funding. That usually means the lower kids get the majority of the attention. Talking to the counselor would allow you to find out what they would do in your particular situation.

[n2ou]

For example, maybe she could go up to first or 2nd grade for reading instruction/groups only;

My dd, a good reader prior to K tested so high at the DIBELS (test they use in our school district as K entrance test) that the teacher approached me during the first week, encouraging me to send her to first grade for her language block.

So, now she splits her time between two classes/two teachers.

I throw back and forth if this is a good situation or if I should have let her ride out a year of total reading domination - lol.

[sarahsthreads]

Thank you, everyone, for all your replies. It sounds like my first step will be to call the school and ask if I can talk to the primary school counselor. I'm not sure what benefit having her formally assessed will have, unless it can somehow influence which class she winds up in - especially if it can make it more likely she'll get into the K/1 multi-age. So I think what I really need to do is ask some of the questions you have all brought up and gain some sort of understanding about what they do for advanced kids.

To answer the question about skipping...DD1 is going to be a *young* kindergartner. She will turn 5 in late October (cutoff around here is 12/1). And while she's socially and emotionally on a par with her 4 and 5 year old preschool classmates, and as ready for kindergarten as they are, she's clearly not ready for first. She's four. I expect she'll have plenty to learn in kindergarten, even if it's just the structure of a school day and how to interact with her peers even more than she does now in preschool. My concern is less having her advance in reading and more about whether she'll learn to love school. But at the same time I want her to be engaged and not feel like kindergarten is just another year of preschool with longer hours.

As far as homeschooling, I have thought about it. However, in my spare time I am a shop owner, and while I have partners and don't have to cover all the hours the shop is open I can't see how I could manage both. I barely manage to be a full-time SAHM and work part time.

And Beth, no I didn't realize that I was describing a 3/4 grade level. Somehow that's not making me feel much better... DH and I were both reading like this before kindergarten. And we both remember being singled out and picked on - by other students and in my case by some teachers - for being too smart. It was worse for me, in the public school system, than for DH, who went to parochial and private schools. I'm dreading having to watch DD1 go through that. I'll admit that a year ago when it was clear that DD1 wanted to learn to read I almost tried to actively discourage her. I couldn't bring myself to do it, but I didn't teach her anything she didn't ask me about. She figured most of it out on her own - she just seems to have been wired to read early.

Anyway, there's a lot here to ponder, and I'll have to get my questions in order and written down, and call the school later this week. Thank you all again!

Sarah

[egoldber]

And Beth, no I didn't realize that I was describing a 3/4 grade level. Somehow that's not making me feel much better...

Sorry. I feel your pain though. Sarah can also read anything (including the NY Times ;) ) and it really is not particularly comforting. It *kills* me that she is basically getting nothing out of her reading time at school (which is almost half her day). If they would let her read her own books at her level, I would be happier. But instead her whole group is reading stuff like The Bailey School Kids which I despise. I think it's fine for kids to read on their own for pleasure, but it just BOTHERS me that they don't provide better quality material for the kids to read.


but I didn't teach her anything she didn't ask me about. She figured most of it out on her own - she just seems to have been wired to read early.

I think some kids are just like that. Sarah did not read early (she entered K not reading), but literally went from BOB books to Magic Treehouse in 3 months and then to basically reading anything by 3 months later. Some kids just pick it up very, very quickly. And her K was NON academic and playbased and I never taught her a single thing about reading skills at home.