NYT piece on why dirt is good for babies

[brittone2]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/health/27brod.html?_r=1&em

I also wonder how this relates to us trying to prevent the typical childhood illnesses and diseases?

In studies of what is called the hygiene hypothesis, researchers are concluding that organisms like the millions of bacteria, viruses and especially worms that enter the body along with “dirt” spur the development of a healthy immune system. Several continuing studies suggest that worms may help to redirect an immune system that has gone awry and resulted in autoimmune disorders, allergies and asthma.

These studies, along with epidemiological observations, seem to explain why immune system disorders like multiple sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, inflammatory bowel disease, asthma and allergies have risen significantly in the United States and other developed countries.



They also touch on whether intestinal worms actually may benefit the immune system in otherwise well-nourished individuals. Grossly fascinating??

[o_mom]

Makes me feel good about my less than sterile house. ;)

[brittone2]

Makes me feel good about my less than sterile house. ;)

Me too LOL :)

[egoldber]

I keep hearing this more and more. I head a similar discussion (maybe it was the same person?) recently on NPR Talk of the Nation Science Friday. He was talking specifically about allergy and asthma, and I am interested in those because Sarah has allergy induced asthma.

I didn't know that most of our bodies are actually composed of bacteria. Who knew?? And that the bacteria we have today is vastly different from that of our ancestors due to things like increased cleanliness and antibiotics. The person I heard, their hot button issue was the over prescription of antibiotics, especially in infancy and how it completely changes the makeup of the bacteria in your body. Very interesting and very scary stuff.

[egoldber]

Makes me feel good about my less than sterile house.

:yeahthat:

[gatorsmom]

Makes me feel good about my less than sterile house. ;)

LOL. I was just coming to post that now I have an excellent excuse not to vacuum or dust. :)

[carolinamama]

Very grossly fascinating! Makes me glad that I only buy non-antibacterial soap and really limit the alcohol hand sanitizers ie I don't carry one with me for DS to use. And I thought I only did it out of sheer laziness to remember such things :ROTFLMAO:

In all seriousness, thanks for posting. My sister has type I diabetes so I always pay attention stuff like this.

[LarsMal]

Makes me feel good about my less than sterile house. ;)

Yep, me too!!

Our ped commented on how DD hadn't been in for a visit since her 18 month check (7 months ago). I give credit to the germs I allow to do their thing in my house, and the fact that she walks around in bare feet half the time- in public!!!!

[cvanbrunt]

We are hygiene hypothesis parents. Of course we wash our hands after potty and before dinner, etc. Otherwise, we don't anti-bacteria anything or cover shopping carts, etc. Makes life easier/more relaxed and (I believe the data) healthier in the long run.

[MontrealMum]

Thanks :) I'd like to say that we were already somewhat half-a$$ed subscribers to this theory, and somewhat just lazy housekeepers ;) ...

Now, could someone please tell my ILs?

[StantonHyde]

Growing up on farms as a kid, we were always very healthy so I guess I always knew this. I mucked poop in bare feet. Needless to say, I am not a germaphobe! This theory totally vindicates my lack of housecleaning!! We do not use antibacterial soap. We do hand sanitize more in winter just from colds. But none of us is really sick.

National Geographic did a very interesting article on this issue within the last several years. They are actually tracking kids in the UK and finding that kids raised on farms--around animals, poop, germs etc etc are healthier in terms of asthma and auto immune type diseases.

[Georgia]

I also wonder how this relates to us trying to prevent the typical childhood illnesses and diseases?


Isn't vaccination though similar to the type of exposure that this article seems to be saying is helpful? It's saying that we might benefit from low-level exposure to some of the organisms in unpurified drinking water, not that we should go back to drinking dirty water.

But I'm very happy to join the healthy family/dirty house club!

[caleymama]

Along with being another that is A-OK with some dirt and germs, I remember reading about this over the summer. Here (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400EEDB1739F93AA15755C0A96E9C8B 63&scp=1&sq=worms+and+idea+lab&st=nyt&scp=13&sq=whipworm&st=cse) is the article that I read in the NYT then about parasitic worms & the immune system. Fascinating!

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

My Ped, also told me pet exposure is good, too. I asked since we had a Pit Bull at the time that was always with the baby. I let the dog lick her, and my Ped said it is good for the immune system, as is the fur. Along the same lines. Dry dirt is fine, it is the wet stuff that is more conducive to bacterial growth. If I do use hand sanitizer, I use Clean Well. We use the 5 second rule in our house...

[mommylamb]

I'd like to join the club too! We have cats as well, and I've heard that having animals around can actually help with allergies and asthma is some kids.

For me, I grew up with cats and was never allergic to them until I went to college and wasn't around them. Then when I would visit my parents house I would have terrible allergy problems. Then I got cats of my own when I finished school. Allergies disapeared.

[lisams]

The person I heard, their hot button issue was the over prescription of antibiotics, especially in infancy and how it completely changes the makeup of the bacteria in your body. Very interesting and very scary stuff.

DS was having ear infection after another and was on antibiotics a lot, and then around 9 months we decided to not treat one with antibiotics (and we visited a chiro) and he has since then not had another ear infection (about 15 months since his last ear infection). It was hard to know he had one and not treat it (we did give him Motrin for the pain), but really it only took an extra few days more than when he was on antibiotics to fight it off.

It totally opened my eyes.

[brittone2]

Isn't vaccination though similar to the type of exposure that this article seems to be saying is helpful? It's saying that we might benefit from low-level exposure to some of the organisms in unpurified drinking water, not that we should go back to drinking dirty water.

But I'm very happy to join the healthy family/dirty house club!

But vaccine induced immunity has always been different from natural immunity.

We also lose the natural boost from circulating subclinical disease. For example:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10023894?dopt=Abstract
As measles vaccination coverage increases, the circulation of wild measles will decrease, and vaccine-induced antibody is less likely to be boosted. Thus, new epidemics, albeit milder in form, may occur in vaccinated areas which should be recognised in campaigns to eradicate measles.

Circulating chicken pox provided a natural booster to adults (who had natural immunity) and helped reduce shingles outbreaks. Now with less circulating chicken pox, more adults are contracting shingles. There is now a shingles vax, but the number I've seen is that is only about 50% (ish) percent effective.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/23/health/he-chickenpox23

Note here that they mention in the last sentence: (with respect to the shingles vax)
It's also not yet clear whether seniors will need more than one injection, or how well the vaccine works in people with weakened immune systems and are at greater risk of developing shingles, McGeer said

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/08/26/shingles-vaccine.html

Also consider that moms of our generation are no longer naturally immune to diseases we were vaccinated against. Our children will have less natural immunity to some of the typical diseases because of vaccination against even more childhood illness. Mothers were able to confer passive immunity through breastfeeding before (to the diseases they were naturally exposed to). Infants are potentially more vulnerable (under 6 months or under a year) to certain diseases because they aren't getting the natural passive immunity from the mother (even if she BFs) that once gave the youngest children some measure of protection.


You start to eliminate the natural subclinical circulating diseases that posed a nice natural boost to most people in the past.

I don't actually intend this as a pro or anti vax thing...:)

I just think it is interesting in the consideration of what childhood diseases we should continue to try to eliminate, and what the intended or unintended consequences might be (pushing up the age for chicken pox outbreaks for example, when it becomes more serious). eta: and the benefits of having childhood diseases circulate naturally in the community vs. not (no easy answer to that...just saying it is something to consider).

edited to fix some wonky sentence.

[brittone2]

I'd like to join the club too! We have cats as well, and I've heard that having animals around can actually help with allergies and asthma is some kids.

For me, I grew up with cats and was never allergic to them until I went to college and wasn't around them. Then when I would visit my parents house I would have terrible allergy problems. Then I got cats of my own when I finished school. Allergies disapeared.

Yeah, it makes me feel somewhat better about the rolling balls of hair that DS was exposed to from our crazy-shedding husky mix, and the ongoing hair on the floor no matter how much I vacuum from our cat and current dog (germ. shep/border collie).

And the occasional (or not ;) ) pet hair that gets into our food (blech!)

[brittone2]

My Ped, also told me pet exposure is good, too. I asked since we had a Pit Bull at the time that was always with the baby. I let the dog lick her, and my Ped said it is good for the immune system, as is the fur. Along the same lines. Dry dirt is fine, it is the wet stuff that is more conducive to bacterial growth. If I do use hand sanitizer, I use Clean Well. We use the 5 second rule in our house...
The 5 second rule is now officially a highly sophisticated strategy for provoking a natural beneficial immune response :) I'll tell myself that at least :wink2:

[hellokitty]

I remember my parents telling me that polio was a, "rich person" disease. FTR, my dad's older sister had polio, she contracted it as a child in Taiwan. She did not die from it, but she walks with an exaggerated limp and her feet and hands look similar to someone who has cerebral palsy. I was told that the families that ended up with children affected by polio were usually, "rich" families, and that research had been shown back then that those from wealthier families had a cleaner living environment, which put them at higher risk for polio.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

DS was having ear infection after another and was on antibiotics a lot, and then around 9 months we decided to not treat one with antibiotics (and we visited a chiro) and he has since then not had another ear infection (about 15 months since his last ear infection). It was hard to know he had one and not treat it (we did give him Motrin for the pain), but really it only took an extra few days more than when he was on antibiotics to fight it off.

It totally opened my eyes.

You may want to ask about Colloidal Silver. Gets rid of ear infections quickly! I have used it on myself, a few drop in the ear for 2 days and the ear infection is gone. I would ask about use in Ped's patients.

[brittone2]

I remember my parents telling me that polio was a, "rich person" disease. FTR, my dad's older sister had polio, she contracted it as a child in Taiwan. She did not die from it, but she walks with an exaggerated limp and her feet and hands look similar to someone who has cerebral palsy. I was told that the families that ended up with children affected by polio were usually, "rich" families, and that research had been shown back then that those from wealthier families had a cleaner living environment, which put them at higher risk for polio.

and there is documentation that this may be the case, from what I understand. I've heard the first generation w/ better sanitation didn't confer natural immunity to their children.

see page 3 here (right hand column of page 3)
Interesting read
http://www.med.nyu.edu/neuromuscular/assets/ch34a.pdf

[pinkmomagain]

My dd1 has inflammatory bowel disease (UC) and although she hasn't recieved this treatment, there is treatment out of Germany using *I think* pig worms. I definitely believe there is something to it. I am not a clean-crazy person at all, but my kids also do not spend enough time outside. They really should.

[caleymama]

My dd1 has inflammatory bowel disease (UC) and although she hasn't recieved this treatment, there is treatment out of Germany using *I think* pig worms.

The NYT article I linked to in an earlier post was about pig worms (can't remember technical name) and IBD, Crohn's, etc.

[squimp]

As long as the dirt is not rich in lead paint or mercury-rich soil, I suppose it's good. Aluminum is one of the #1 ingredients in soil, and some folks would have a problem with that.

As a soil scientist, it really does depend what kind of dirt we're talking about here!

[maestramommy]

I love the last line!:p We will have to look into getting a dog. When #3 is potty trained:D