A Couple questions on the HFCS stuff

[KrisM]

On this topic, I've been reading that the study was outdated a bit and that many of the companies no longer use the Mercury cell machines on the HFCS. It appears that some do though, so you still can't tell if your HFCS has or doesn't have mercury. What do you think of that?

Also, so far as I have found, no levels other than "detectable" were given. I assume any mercury is bad, so detectable is enough to be a problem. Is this right?

DH does agree that HFCS is bad, in general. However he thinks that the study was so vague with not testing many products, not repeating, not reporting specific levels of Hg, etc, that he's not super concerned. He agrees we should work towards lowering or eliminating HFCS, but doesn't agree that we should toss what we do have. I am trying to come up with something in the middle - getting rid of the ketchup, since the kids do eat a lot of it, but maybe not the crackers, since it's low on the list of ingredients and they don't eat them much. When I buy more crackers, I'll buy HFCS-free ones. Am I silly to do this? Should I just toss them?

[dotgirl]

I read the study, but haven't been following the thread(s).

There are reasons other than mercury to eliminate HFCS, and it's something I had been toying with for a while, but didn't think I could get my DH on board with.

However, with the release of this study, he agrees we need to eliminate it.

We've made the decision to just finish our food like normal, and as we replace things, ensure they have no HFCS in them. We're not throwing away our wheat thins or bagels - but when we buy new ones, we'll make sure they're HFCS-free.

For me, that's a good balance between making health choices and making frugal choices.

[gatorsmom]

These are questions i"ve been struggling with as well. I think I could more easily make my decision knowing how much these foods are contaminated with mercury. I'd also like to know if there is a blood test something like the one done for lead to determine if I should throw all these foods out immediately or if I can use some of them up, kwim?

Not trying to hijack your thread with more questions. Just trying to get a clearer picture of how much damage this stuff is doing.

[niccig]

My take is that it doesn't matter HOW much mercury is in the HFCS. NONE should be there. It's a heavy metal that accumulates, you can't get rid of it once it's in your body. I don't want my kid eating things with mercury in it. I also don't give him the types of fish that have high levels of mercury.

And the complaining by the corn industry to me, sounds like the tobacco industry saying all those tests were wrong and tobacco did not cause lung cancer. I also liken it to the BPA in plastics. All my mother friends poo poohed it when I mentioned what I had read here when DS was a baby. Now all of our kids are 4yo and the mums are worried about how much their older kids got. I don't have to worry. If finding an alternative is easy enough, then to me it's no hassle to sub. something else in.

With that said, I do like the OP suggestion. Toss a few things that you're really concerned about and replace now. For other things, once you've used them, replace with a better alternative. Or, buy new things for the kids and you finish things off - with the idea that mercury is more toxic to little ones than it is to us.

Depending on how much you have, and how much you eat of it, I think you could be rid of most stuff in a month or two.

I do have 1 packet cake mix with HFCS. I'll probably use that up, as everything else of ours, is HFCS free.

[mamicka]

I've just been buying new products w/o HFCS for the kids & using-up the HFCS stuff myself (& DH, of course). I feel like that's the best I can do.

[s7714]

I've just been buying new products w/o HFCS for the kids & using-up the HFCS stuff myself (& DH, of course). I feel like that's the best I can do.

That's what we're basically doing as well. I'd like to see further testing and studies regarding the issue, but since HFCS was already on my "need to eliminate list" this is just another reason to be a little more vigilant about it.

[o_mom]

I think that strategy is a reasonable one. We are not pitching anything, though I'm still on the fence about the big bottle of ketchup. I'm going to be more aware going forward, but then it's not like we are pitching huge amounts of stockpiled food with HFCS.

Both studies gave actual numbers. The first one from Environmental Health gave concentrations in the pure HFCS. The levels were 0.012 to 0.570 micrograms per gram in the samples where it was detected (limit of detection was 0.005 microgram/g). For a 120 lb woman of childbearing age, the recommended max daily intake is 5.5 micrograms and for a 40 lb child it would be 1.8 micrograms (0.1 mcg/kg/day).

The second one gives all the results at the end. In the samples where mercury was detected, it ranged from 30-350 ppt. To give you an idea of that scale, the FDA recommends that pregnant women and children do not eat mackerel. The level of mercury in mackerel (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html)was measured at 0.730 ppm, which would be 730 ppt.

Personally, I think ANY mercury is too much, especially since this is completely avoidable by the producers. The EPA sets limits, but like lead, we are seeing more and more that there is no safe limit. The action level for lead is 10+ on a blood test in a child, but studies show effects at levels as low as 3. Holding up the EPA as a reasonable limit is not comforting to me (which is what the HFCS rebuttal does).

[brittone2]

I saw on the HFCS manufacturer's website they now say
"Expert Assessment Finds HFCS Mercury Study Flawed and Misleading"

The "expert assessment" was done by the group ChemRisk, which has an interesting history if you do some googling. The President of ChemRisk is
Dr. Dennis Paustenbach. They are a firm that worked with Pacific Gas and Electric company on the "real life" version of the Erin Brokovich case, fwiw.
http://www.cspinet.org/cgi-bin/integrity.cgi
http://www.ewg.org/node/21950
http://www.ewg.org/node/21939

They were involved w/ some science ghostwriting in the past. He's been a paid defense witness for asbestos manufacturers in the past. There's a pretty lengthy and interesting history there. FWIW, despite his ties, he sat on the EPA advisory board (or was he just considered for it? I need to look that up again now that I'm rereading this...) with respect to asbestos.

as an aside:
FDA may be getting ready to remove the fish consumption guidelines for pregnant women (just posting since it relates with respect to mercury)
http://www.ewg.org/node/27431
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/11/AR2008121103394.html?hpid=sec-health

(reading the WaPo one...are they giong to try to convince us of an upside the mercury in HFCS? :rolleye0014:)

[brittone2]

nak:
2 blips from the WaPo that bring up some interesting points:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/mighty-appetite/2009/01/high-fructose_corn_syrup_meets.html?wprss=mighty-appetite

Old technology or not, according to the report, apparently at least 4 plants are still using that technology...
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/checkup/ (scroll 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down or so)

[egoldber]

There are reasons other than mercury to eliminate HFCS, and it's something I had been toying with for a while, but didn't think I could get my DH on board with.

However, with the release of this study, he agrees we need to eliminate it

This is us. DH usually poo poos these things and even he is on board. I bought new stuff for the kids yesterday (although I was pleasantly surprised at how little HFCS stuff we actually had....stuff I thought for sure would have it did not) and will maybe eat the other stuff myself. Although frankly I have lost my appetite for Wheat Thins.

[KrisM]

I think that strategy is a reasonable one. We are not pitching anything, though I'm still on the fence about the big bottle of ketchup. I'm going to be more aware going forward, but then it's not like we are pitching huge amounts of stockpiled food with HFCS.

Both studies gave actual numbers. The first one from Environmental Health gave concentrations in the pure HFCS. The levels were 0.012 to 0.570 micrograms per gram in the samples where it was detected (limit of detection was 0.005 microgram/g). For a 120 lb woman of childbearing age, the recommended max daily intake is 5.5 micrograms and for a 40 lb child it would be 1.8 micrograms (0.1 mcg/kg/day).

The second one gives all the results at the end. In the samples where mercury was detected, it ranged from 30-350 ppt. To give you an idea of that scale, the FDA recommends that pregnant women and children do not eat mackerel. The level of mercury in mackerel (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html)was measured at 0.730 ppm, which would be 730 ppt.

Personally, I think ANY mercury is too much, especially since this is completely avoidable by the producers. The EPA sets limits, but like lead, we are seeing more and more that there is no safe limit. The action level for lead is 10+ on a blood test in a child, but studies show effects at levels as low as 3. Holding up the EPA as a reasonable limit is not comforting to me (which is what the HFCS rebuttal does).

Thanks for the numbers.

ETA: I went back to the original thread and I think I read it before the other links were posted. Totally missed that.

[Corie]

How do I know what food has HFCS?

[KrisM]

How do I know what food has HFCS?

It's listed at "high fructose corn syrup" on the ingredient label.

Personally, I'm making a list of what's in my pantry that does and doesn't have it to make my shopping faster. I do not have time to read all the labels in the store when I have 3 kids with me :).

[egoldber]

How do I know what food has HFCS?

It will be on the ingredients list as high fructose corn syrup.

[mariza]

[QUOTE] And the complaining by the corn industry to me, sounds like the tobacco industry saying all those tests were wrong and tobacco did not cause lung cancer. [QUOTE]

ITA, just the other day I was flipping through a magazine and saw a full page ad from the corn industry. It showed a man and woman and the man was saying something to the effect of "high fructose corn syrup is making me fat" then the bubble above the woman's head says "going back for thirds is making you fat"

p.s. how do you guys get those nice blue boxes when quoting another persons post?

[o_mom]

p.s. how do you guys get those nice blue boxes when quoting another persons post?


When I click "quote" it says in brackets (but not with quote marks) "quote=mariza;2294756" at the beginning and "/quote" at the end (again in brackets).

I don't add anything, though - that comes up automatically.

One really cool thing I learned recently is that if you click on the little blue arrow thing next to a quoted person's name it will take you back to the quoted post. :)

[KrisM]

p.s. how do you guys get those nice blue boxes when quoting another persons post?

Nothing to comment on here, just doing an example :)




One really cool thing I learned recently is that if you click on the little blue arrow thing next to a quoted person's name it will take you back to the quoted post. :)

I didn't know that.

I just learned that I can hit the "+" button on a bunch of people and then "Reply" and get you all quoted.

[tylersmama]

Ooh, the multi-quote must have been part of the new upgrade, we weren't able to do that before! Love this feature!

And back on-topic, I'm with many of you here. I don't think I'm going to throw away the HFCS stuff, just try to use it up myself and buy non-HFCS stuff for DS. I've been trying not to buy too much of it anyway, but unfortunately there are some vices I have a hard time giving up (I'm looking at you, Dr. Pepper...). The ketchup's gonna hurt, though. I have the Costco two-pack of Heinz. Sigh. Maybe I'll give it to my dear (HA) husband and let him have it! :innocent:

[o_mom]

ETA: I went back to the original thread and I think I read it before the other links were posted. Totally missed that.

Yes, the news articles are saying "detectable", which makes people think these were qualitative assays (detect/not detect), when they were quatitative.

[trales]

Any amount of Hg to me is unacceptable.

I am more likely to believe the results of a peer reviewed journal which spent a lot of time listing it's methodology and potential flaws of the study, than a paid consulting group whose only contribution to the argument is to say the study is older and there were not enough samples. Both of which were presented in the Environmental Health study, perhaps if the manufacturers of HFCS gave up more samples and were more transparent the study would not be "older" and limited in scope.

This being said, I am somewhat more tolerant of Hg is fish, since the source of Hg is hard to find and something that we all are responsible for. This would be a whole different post. I do not however, find any Hg acceptable in a food product where contamination was a direct result of the manufacturing process. I am appalled that HFCS is manufactured is plants that use old Hg based technology and is still labeled as GRAS.

[brittone2]

whoops...wanted to post this somewhere else. Sorry!

[gatorsmom]

Any amount of Hg to me is unacceptable.



This being said, I am somewhat more tolerant of Hg is fish, since the source of Hg is ... something that we all are responsible for.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.