Am I selfish?

[JenaW]

Ok, I already have admitted I am on many levels.

Here is the situation - my SIL is in Vet school in Illinois. She has a conference in Oregon or somewhere out west (we live in NY) in mid-July and wants DH (her much older and not very close relationship wise brother) to fly out with her and go for a 5-7 day hike around Crater Lake. She has not specifically said so, but it sounds like she is not including me or the kids. I think she is lokoing for some peace and unwind-time - which it would not be with 5 kids. Also, it is the week before my triathlon. Am I selfish that I don't want him to take the vacation time (or spend the money) on something that he can't do with his wife and or kids? He already is taking some time for a CME conference for himself that I most likely will not be able to attend because it is during tax season and my parents (Mom is a tax accountant) would have to be the ones to watch our kids. He often takes a yearly or every other year hiking/climbing trip with his best friend, but won't be doing that this year. I don't know why this bothers me so much. Maybe becasue I don't have the opportunity to do something similar? If I wanted to go away with my girlfriends (not that I have many that I would want to go anywhere with) he would have to take time off to watch the kids, and I would rather spend his vacation time together, as we have such little time together as it is. He keeps mentioning it and I keep making non-committal grunts but not really saying much else. I am fairly certain if I told him how I felt, he would either (a) not go, but make me feel awful for not letting him go, or (b) make me feel so guilty for even suggesting he not go that I would reneg and let him go anyway.....what do I do? His sister just sent him an email today with the dates and several links to the area, which if how I found out when it was. I am not sure what to do.

J

[sste]

Can you compromise with a 3-4 day trip? In our house -- which does NOT have five kids so I am not sure even this applies - - DH and I give each other alot of latitude for long weekend type trips. But to spend a full week of vacation? We have always felt that that is family time under all but truly exceptional circumstances. Especially because DH works long hours and I work outside the home too.

I am kind of surprised your SIL would ask . . .

ETA: Also, if your DH takes a yearly hiking trip I would def. consider taking a 4 day trip of your own each year - - enough to give you a break but no so long that you would start to miss everyone too much. Personally, I am a big believer that time and experiences apart make us more interesting to our spouses and vice versa . . . and more appreciative of the work they do at home.

[JenaW]

Can you compromise with a 3-4 day trip?

Yes, a shorter trip would probably be an acceptable compromise...although since he would be flying across the country, he may need a full day each way for travel, and I am not sure how long the hike would take.


I am kind of surprised your SIL would ask . . .

This is nothing compared to her asking him to go to the Czech Republic (where he was born and her father is from) for 7-10 days with her. That I most definitely put my foot down and said there was no way he was taking a trip out of the country alone. He agreed on that.


ETA: Also, if your DH takes a yearly hiking trip I would def. consider taking a 4 day trip of your own each year - - enough to give you a break but no so long that you would start to miss everyone too much. Personally, I am a big believer that time and experiences apart make us more interesting to our spouses and vice versa . . . and more appreciative of the work they do at home.

I would love to. I just don't know if it would work logistically, as it would mean more vacation time he has to take to watch the kids. In the past, when he has gone on a hiking trip, I usually take the kids and go somewhere with my parents. I have also gone away with my parents and the kids while he is working. But this doesn't cost much as my parents own a timeshare, so no hotel costs, and we mostly cook, so just grocery costs, which I would have at home anyway. I usually make and leave meals for DH or he eats Chinese, which he doesn't get much other times because the kids and I don't love it. Also, it isn't much of a vacation, just a different location, as I am still responsible for the kids AND without my husband.

[spanannie]

I only have 3 kids and would have an absolute coronary if DH went on a 5-7 day non-business trip without us. I know that he would not even consider it. I think I'd have a fit even if it was a 2-3 day pleasure trip--nor do I think he'd even consider that. I forget how old your youngest is, but mine is 6 mos., and I just don't think we're in the position yet to have those kind of trips until the kids are older. It's just too much for one parent to handle. Just my opinion and I do not think that's selfish.


Ok, I already have admitted I am on many levels.

Here is the situation - my SIL is in Vet school in Illinois. She has a conference in Oregon or somewhere out west (we live in NY) in mid-July and wants DH (her much older and not very close relationship wise brother) to fly out with her and go for a 5-7 day hike around Crater Lake. She has not specifically said so, but it sounds like she is not including me or the kids. I think she is lokoing for some peace and unwind-time - which it would not be with 5 kids. Also, it is the week before my triathlon. Am I selfish that I don't want him to take the vacation time (or spend the money) on something that he can't do with his wife and or kids? He already is taking some time for a CME conference for himself that I most likely will not be able to attend because it is during tax season and my parents (Mom is a tax accountant) would have to be the ones to watch our kids. He often takes a yearly or every other year hiking/climbing trip with his best friend, but won't be doing that this year. I don't know why this bothers me so much. Maybe becasue I don't have the opportunity to do something similar? If I wanted to go away with my girlfriends (not that I have many that I would want to go anywhere with) he would have to take time off to watch the kids, and I would rather spend his vacation time together, as we have such little time together as it is. He keeps mentioning it and I keep making non-committal grunts but not really saying much else. I am fairly certain if I told him how I felt, he would either (a) not go, but make me feel awful for not letting him go, or (b) make me feel so guilty for even suggesting he not go that I would reneg and let him go anyway.....what do I do? His sister just sent him an email today with the dates and several links to the area, which if how I found out when it was. I am not sure what to do.

J

[kijip]

Ok a week long optional/not work related trip without the spouse and 5 kids is not something I would be down with until the youngest kid was about 10 years old.

Expecting to come first with your spouse is not being selfish.

ETA: The answer might be different if it were a once in a lifetime thing (Crater Lake ain't going anywhere) or he had endless amounts of vacation time (which I assume is not the case). Or even just if it did not bother you. But it does. That is what matters here.

[spanannie]

Ok a week long optional/not work related trip without the spouse and 5 kids is not something I would be down with until the youngest kid was about 10 years old.

Expecting to come first with your spouse is not being selfish.

Katie said my thoughts exactly in many less words.

[Ceepa]

If your DH could shorten the trip and if you were encouraged to take a similar trip (whether you ultimately decide to or not), I don't see the problem.

[niccig]

If your DH could shorten the trip and if you were encouraged to take a similar trip (whether you ultimately decide to or not), I don't see the problem.

I could see a shorter trip. Why can't he reply to his sister that he does not have that amount of vacation time available, but he could come for 3-4 days and do a shorter hike.

DH is going to see the Final Four basketball. He and a college friend go in a lottery every year to win tickets, and they won this year. Turns out he will be gone 5 days - 2 more than I thought. BUT I only have one DC and on 2 of those days he'll be in preschool. DH normally has a long golfing weekend with college buddies, so this year it's the basketball instead - actually I better confirm that with DH! As long as I also get a break, I'm OK with a few days away - but not a week.

[bnme]

I would not like this either, but mainly because of money. If DH took a trip like this it would mean we couldn't take a family trip. We travel only about once a year and I would not give that up so he could go solo, and I would be mad/hurt if he suggested it. BUT if it would not cut into our vacation budget and we could 'easily' afford it I would be OK. Also, if it meant he may have to take some days off from work so I could take a short trip I would not feel guilty.

[firstbaby]

Well, I would guess SIL is figuring there is no harm in asking. After all, DH can always say no, right? :)

If DH really WANTED to go and the trip was affordable, I would want to make it work for him. However, I can't tell from your post if DH wants to go or feels compelled to go. I would assume that the flight was the largest, or one of the largest, expenses. So, shortening the trip by a few days may not make the trip that much more economical.

If it were me, I would add up the cost of the trip money wise and the "cost" of DH being gone for that many days and present that to him. Does he feel that he wants to spend the money and time on something like that? Or is there a better use of the time / money that may benefit the family as a whole?

I am all for each person getting some time to recharge. But, this may not be the best opportunity to do it. Just my two cents.

[jayali]

So I realize that I am in the minority here, but if this is something that DH really wants to do and money was not an issue then I would say let him go. In our house, with only 1 child so no comparision at all, we try to make allowances for things that each other want to do. Like I work and DH is home with DS. I really want to start practicing yoga again so I asked for a GC for my birthday to a new yoga center. What this really means is that DH will have to bath and put DS to sleep two nights a week. He is OK with that because he knows it is something I really want to do. DH wants to go on a guys golfing trip in the Spring - we will figure out how to make it work, because it is something that he wants to do. Not that we don't want to spend quality time with each other, because we do, but I feel that it is important to each others mental health to have some quality "me" time. That said it is not being selfish of you to not want your DH to give up "family" time, but sometimes we have to realize that if it something that the other person really wants to do then we need to look past it.

[maestramommy]

I'm really surprised your SIL would ask, and not include you. But if they're not that close perhaps she doesn't truly understand what it's like with 5 kids. I think you need to be honest with your Dh about how you feel, or you're really going to resent it the entire week he is gone. Maybe you can come up with some kind of compromise (I don't know what), unless he is willing to make this is once a year trip instead of going with his buddies.

In our house, with only two, the longest Dh ever took off for fun was one night, maybe two. Basically leaving Friday night after putting the kids to bed, and coming back Sunday evening. But to my recollection it was when we only had 1. The longest he was ever gone was for 6 days and that was to work in New Orleans right after Katrina. He took the week of Thanksgiving off, knowing I would be well taken care of staying with my parents. This was when Dora was only a few weeks old. Nowadays neither of us would even consider asking for such a thing if it meant leaving the other alone with the kids with no backup. Work is one thing, play is another.

[g-mama]

I would not be okay with this. My dh gets two weeks (but it usually turns out to be more like 8 work days) of vacation a year. Those days are darn precious to us to spend together as a family. If my dh took even half of that without me, I would feel like he was taking it away from ME. Because then not only would I not be getting to go on a vacation with him, I would be 24/7 responsible for the kids on the days he was gone, so it's like a double whammy. Those days are then GONE and where is my break? I mean, when we go as a family of five on vacation, it's anything but relaxing, BUT it's a change of scenery, fun things to do, eating out all the time, and having my dh away from work and with us.

Perhaps if one's dh got a lot of vacation days, it would feel very different. My SIL and BIL both get four weeks a year and they both take individual mini-vacations with their friends each year. However, since they both work, the other spouse is only responsible for the kids from like 6pm til 8pm, after the nanny leaves. Totally different, IMO.

[Melaine]

ummmm NO you are not selfish to not like this idea. I think it is kind of weird for her to ask, personally. Everyone already covered all the bases as to why I wouldn't be ok with it. Money, vacation time, distance, stress on you....but I can't imagine DH and I ever being able to afford the time and money to go on separate trips. We can't even afford a vacation together at this point.....DH only gets two weeks vacation (and like, pp, it's more like 8 work days) a year.

[KBecks]

I would not OK that trip and if my dh gave me grief, I think we'd need to discuss why family is first.

[kedss]

have a talk with him, tell him your feelings, find out if he really wants to go, maybe you can find a good compromise?

[hillview]

I wouldn't be a fan of this even if DH was super close and wanted to go (although I might let him in that case etc). If he isn't super excited then I'd nix it. If he was I'd try to come up a compromise.
/hillary

[frgsnlzrds]

If my dh took even half of that without me, I would feel like he was taking it away from ME. Because then not only would I not be getting to go on a vacation with him, I would be 24/7 responsible for the kids on the days he was gone, so it's like a double whammy. Those days are then GONE and where is my break? I mean, when we go as a family of five on vacation, it's anything but relaxing, BUT it's a change of scenery, fun things to do, eating out all the time, and having my dh away from work and with us.

:yeahthat:
I couldn't have said it better myself. I think that working parents often underestimate the need for a break that stay at home parents need, and I think that two working parents also need equal time away. I don't think you're selfish at all.

[buddyleebaby]

I don't think you are being unreasonable. That being said, were it me, I would let him go.

I understand that it is hard when DH is away (believe me, I do!). And I understand feeling a little resentment because you can't just up and get away for a week.

But, I also have a brother that I love and who is important to me. I am dedicated to my spouse and children but I would hope that if I wanted a little time with my sibling (who is also dedicated and focused on HIS family), which is so rare now that we are adults, that my DH could give that to me.

[alexsmommy]

No I don't think you are selfish.

I'm not surprised your SIL asked if she has no kids. You just can't understand the intense no break relentless work taking care of children is until you have kids. You really can't understand that it does not mutiply, but is expontial by the number of children.

I think a compromise if he really, really, really wants to do it is in order. Even if it means you go to your parents time share by yourself or with just the two oldest kiddos for a long weekend... and he only goes for a long weekend as well.

I guess I'm more surprised you DH seems to be thinking this is a good plan. Then again, maybe, with back to back kids, this is the first time he feels he could consider something like this and wants to grab the opportunity while he can. I think you should talk to him about everything you have written and if he wants to go after all of your reservations, then as for quid pro quo time, either away or entire days to yourself.

My friend with four back-to-back kiddos with a DH doing a residnecy maps out a weekend every six months (Saturday-Sunday), goes on one of those last minute deal websites and finds a great deal on a great hotel in the city the week of, and rejuniviates. She leaves early on Saturday and goes out to brunch (which frugal girl she is, she looks for coupons and deals in advance), then she window shops - though her DH always hand her cash and tell her to treat herself to one nice thing. She buys herself a novel and trashy magazines and gets a mani-ped (at a cheap place, not in the hotel), walks around, watches movies that no one else in her house cares for. If there is a sauna she avails herself of that. Maybe you could get a deal like this out of it. I intend to steal this plan in the near future now that no one is nursing.

On another note - you go girl with your bad self doing the triatholon!

[stella]

Who am I missing, Jera? I was thinking you had four - Carter, Madigan, Natalie, another little girl...? Obviously you know better than I do how many children you have - lol.

You are definitely not being selfish. I think you are being realistic.
It *sounds* like a no-brainer - absolutely no way. But I am a sucker for my dh getting to have great opportunities as long as I do too, and he makes sure that I can go away any time.

So I guess I would propose several options:
1. DH proposes to his sister that you are coming along as well, and you start now trying to find good childcare, and ask your mom or dad to spend the nights while you're gone.
2. You start to look for help NOW for when he's gone, and dh may not complain one bit about the cost. Then you get that helper to come every day from 4-9 p.m. to help you with supper, baths, bedtime, and at least one load of laundry, and on at least 3 of those evenings, you go out to B&N or someplace like that and read magazines and sip coffee. Or a yoga class or a quiet, solitary walk. Or the public library or a movie or whatever - but you have to have it lined up and in place before he leaves.

You are not being selfish at all, and if you don't want him to go, I would tell him that and give him your reasons. He probaby has no idea what your household would be like because any time he is at home with your five, you have either done a lot of preparation (meals, etc - you are waaayyy nicer than I am) or you are physically there helping.

Good luck.

[mommy111]

Ok a week long optional/not work related trip without the spouse and 5 kids is not something I would be down with until the youngest kid was about 10 years old.

Expecting to come first with your spouse is not being selfish.

ETA: The answer might be different if it were a once in a lifetime thing (Crater Lake ain't going anywhere) or he had endless amounts of vacation time (which I assume is not the case). Or even just if it did not bother you. But it does. That is what matters here.
She said it!
If its bothering you, its not OK.
Personally, I would probably be more OK with the Czech republic trip because it sounds more like a personal discovery once in a lifetime thing that you may want to do with a sibling

[pinkmomagain]

I'm sure I'm selfish too...but I'd feel the same. However, we are the type of family that does things together. I did like the suggestion for a shorter excursion...that sounded like a nice compromise.

[SASM]

Hi you!

I would email this to you but have already junked up your email box...sorry! :) Anyway...you have a lot of great advice! I haven't read it all, so I am not sure if this has been addressed but how about their meeting halfway between NY and M's home for a 3-4 day hike, if she really wants some bonding time. It may not be Crater Lake or the Grand Tetons but at least it is something. :) Knowing the hx, I'd be pissed off, too. You are not selfish. And...knowing how close you'd be to the triathlon and how involved he's been, I think that you have every right to want him there at the end.

And...waving my hands wildly over here!!! I'd gladly go on a cheap girlie weekend with you, girlfriend!! HUGE hugs!!!

Check your email... :)

[daniele_ut]

Now, keep in mind that I only have 2 kids and have no IDEA what it would be like to be a FT mommy to 5. I'm also in the minority, but don't think I would be too upset about it. Dh takes at least 1 backpacking trip without me every year with a dear friend who is like a parent to us. The length of time varies each trip. He has also gone to several non-required music clinics , one of which was in Prague, in the past few years that usually have him travelling for 5 days or more. He also went on an orchestra tour (also optional) to the British Isles for a month when DS was 2. The only trips I've taken alone have been business trips. I'd like to plan a few days of actual vacation for myself at the end of this summer.

[JenaW]

Who am I missing, Jera? I was thinking you had four - Carter, Madigan, Natalie, another little girl...? Obviously you know better than I do how many children you have - lol.



We had Alexa in Nov 2006, and Hailey (our 4th girl and 5th child) Sept 2008.

Thanks for all the replies. I think I may just print this out and leave it on the kitchen table. I honestly think SIL has no clue. She is not being malicious, but probably never stopped to think of the effect it would have on me. She is in grad school and lives alone, and has distant relationships with her parents (who are divorced) so she basically comes and goes as she pleases. Apparently she thinks DH can do the same?! I feel bad because he works long, hard hours and is definitely entitled to some R&R. In the past, his hiking trips were done with his best guy friend because I was not in good enough physical condition or was pregnant or with a nursing newborn and couldn't go anyway. But now that I am training for a triathlon, I am in as good of shape as he is, if not slightly better since he had emergency back surgery right before Christmas and is very limited in what activity he can actually do right now. Financially we can afford it, but it would still come out of our own family vacation fund. He has a decent job, but we also have 5 kids and are saving aggressively both for our own retirement and our kids college, so we are not exactly rolling in extra. I think the biggest thing is that he would be taking time away from us, which we have so little of to begin with. He leaves for work most days by 5am (sometimes 4:30) and is RARELY home before 6. once a month he may have an early day and be done by 3-4 but that is extremely uncommon. More often than not, he walks in the door as we are sitting down to eat (or after we have finished). He may hvae a few minutes to spend with the kids, then helps get them ready for bed. By they time we have done prayers and story and get them tucked in, he is often ready to go to bed himself since he is up so early. He usually works 1-2 weekends a month. He is SUPPOSED to be 80% clinical and get one day off a week for administrative/research stuff. However, it usually comes on a post-call day, when he has worked from 5am until midnight (or later) than is on call from home subject to call-in until 7am. So often times he spends much of his day off sleeping, since he has been up all night. SIGH. And people think the life of a doctor is glamorous!! Ugh. He is working until midnight tonight, and then leaving for the weekend to help out his psychotic, ailing mother. So I will still be stewing about this for a few more days. Luckily the trip isn't for a few more months, so we'll see what happens.

[kedss]

heya Jera-
in your shoes, I would just write what you wrote out here, I think that would be enough to explain your feelings?
I understand a little, my guy is defending his dissertation finally in a couple weeks, and we don't really have anytime, we have two kids and its hard enough.

[lizajane]

i think you need to talk with him about how you REALLY feel. i don't mean saying things off the top of your head like, "you can't leave me here with 5 kids for that long because i never get to go anywhere!"

i mean, tell him how you REALLY feel.

does it hurt your feelings that he wants to go without you?
does it scare you that a kid could get hurt or sick while he was gone and he would be hard to reach?
do you wish you could spend some vacation time alone as a couple to recharge your relationship and feel that he wouldn't be on board?

honestly, when i tell DH what i am FEELING about any situation, he is able to both understand what i am communicating to him AND really consider my position. not to mention, he can share what he is truly feeling and where he is coming from. "i can't believe you would consider going without me" is NOT going to open the lines of communication, KWIM?