a desperate potty plea

[bubbaray]

OK, mods, please let me post here as this is kinda urgent.

I need to get DD#2 potty trained asap. It sounds like she is in for a new daycare come September and she MUST be PTd by then. She screams/cries sometimes if you put her on the potty at daycare. She did "go" there once. She will sit on the potty at home, but "does" nothing. Sigh.

DD#1 PTd herself. I can NOT wait for DD#2 to do that -- she absolutely MUST be PTd to go to this particular daycare program, they are strict about it.

Has anyone used this book?

http://www.potty-training-in-one-day.com/2007/06/06/potty-training-in-one-day-a-guide-for-todays-parents/

There was also a different website floating around here at some point, but I lost the link and can't find it by searching.

HELP -- hit me with your best PTg ideas. THANKS!

[Piglet]

I know you are desperate, but September is half a year away and SO much changes in 6 months at this age. We had the same deadline with DS1 and he PTed the summer before school started as did all his friends. Naked time in the sumemr helps a lot too. I think the more you panic about the worse it goes because DD will sense your panic.

[Ceepa]

It's much easier to PT in the spring/summer. If you force it and she's already crying about being put on the potty then you may be setting everyone up for a lot of unproductive frustration. I'd take a step back. Get a potty chair, read some PT books with her, talk about it casually and plan for some naked (at least bare bottom) days in the warmer weather.

[egoldber]

I would wait until it's warm and keep her in dresses with no pants. So much easier.

[LarsMal]

If this is the one that does the "Are you dry?" approach- I did it and it worked! I used it for DS back in August when he had to be trained for p/s. He was good to go in 2 days (although he still poops in a diaper or pull-up, but that's another issue entirely!). He was almost three at the time. I'm happy to report he's only had one accident since we did this- 6 months ago- and that was a fluke thing last week.

I just started it with DD over the weekend. She was 2 at the end of December. She's obviously younger than DS was, and she's a pretty stubborn little thing (and gets easily distracted) but it's working well with her, too. She's had a couple accidents, but overall it's going well.

I didn't read the book- a friend of mine told me about it and I just did what she said. I used the timer and the treats with DS, but with DD I haven't done any of that. I just do the whole, "Are you dry/Are you still dry?" followed by the potty and praise. She hasn't caught on to tell me she has to go yet, but she does stay dry.

GL!

ETA: I agree with the others that you still have time. I did this with DS the week before he started p/s, and he was fine by the time he started. If she does take to this approach, it can be done pretty quickly, so you don't need to worry about it taking the next 6 months to get her there.

[Fairy]

Oh gosh, Melissa, I am not your man, here. My DS took till he was almost 3.5. But I will say this. We didn't "try." He refused, and we let it go. Then one day, I took out undies after a bath, and I non-chalantly suggested me might wanna wear them, and he said yes! Great. Ten minutes later, I said, ooh, wait, by the way, just so you know, you can't go pee pee or poopy in those. They're not a pullup. If you have to go, just tell me, and we'll get you in a diapy or a pullup. And he said ok. Then I added, or ya know, you can always go in the potty if you want. Ya know, up to you.

He never wore a pullup or diaper again.

So, we just didn't push. But it was long after the age you're looking for. So, my advice is not to push? But ... you're on a timeline. So ... I'm not your guy. Good luck!

[C99]

I would wait. The more you push, the worse it's going to be. I honestly think it'll be less stress on you to find alternate daycare than to push her into PTing too early.

[bubbaray]

Thanks everyone! I had posted about this about 6m ago and we totally DID backoff. The DCP did start again before Christmas, with initial success, but then not so much.

DD#2 is a stubborn little thing, where on earth she gets that trait, I have no idea. :innocent: LOL

I might try taking her out to buy a "Dora" potty and Dora undies this week and see if that helps. We have umpteen potties around here, but she LOVES Dora and that might work.

I might also give that book a try. I mean, apparently Dr. Phil recommends it and we all know he's ALWAYS right. :rolleyes:

Thanks again!

[bubbaray]

I honestly think it'll be less stress on you to find alternate daycare than to push her into PTing too early.

Not gonna happen. They were registered for this program as soon as I got home from the hospital after they were born. I'm years too late to register for other programs that service our first choice of school for DD#1....

[amandabea]

My DD is the same age as your DD#2 and she is essentially potty trained now although we still have occasional accidents and she is in diapers at night. She moved up to the 2 yo room at daycare and they start sitting on the potty, so I just jumped on it by doing partial naked time and asking "are you dry?" over and over one weekend.

During the following week we did diapers and pull ups at school and training panties/naked at home and then the second week I just started sending her to school in her big-girl panties (HA trainers and some character panties).

Just be sure your current DCP is on board, do the naked/are you dry for the weekend, move her to panties (maybe pull ups or diapers for naps and nights of course), and be prepared for accidents (basically have a lot of back up panties). My DD did not like the wet panties feeling (who would), so I think skipping pull ups has moved things more quickly.

We have 8 pairs of HA trainers, 9 HA hipster unders, and several packs of character panties. My favs are the HA trainers. DD doesn't seem to care.

Good luck. It's pretty frustrating at first (or maybe that's just my personality), but I'm so happy we just bit the bullet and went to panties.

ETA: having a picture book next to the potty for the waiting-for-#2 sessions was helpful. And someone also gave us the Bear in the Big Blue House Potty Time DVD that my DD likes and she had never seen Bear before.

[BelleoftheBallFlagstaff]

Oh gosh, Melissa, I am not your man, here. My DS took till he was almost 3.5. But I will say this. We didn't "try." He refused, and we let it go. Then one day, I took out undies after a bath, and I non-chalantly suggested me might wanna wear them, and he said yes! Great. Ten minutes later, I said, ooh, wait, by the way, just so you know, you can't go pee pee or poopy in those. They're not a pullup. If you have to go, just tell me, and we'll get you in a diapy or a pullup. And he said ok. Then I added, or ya know, you can always go in the potty if you want. Ya know, up to you.

He never wore a pullup or diaper again.

So, we just didn't push. But it was long after the age you're looking for. So, my advice is not to push? But ... you're on a timeline. So ... I'm not your guy. Good luck!

The casual approach, good idea.

[hollybloom24]

We used the Toilet Training in a Day book - many other potty books are based on it or reference it. It didn't work for us in a day, although I used the principles.

Since 2.7 years old, our kids were using the potty sometimes, and sometimes not. It was clear they had the skills and the knowledge. My mistake was always keeping them in Pull Ups - it made them lazy. Once I switched to HA trainning unders, things moved a bit faster.

What finally worked for us at age 3.3 years was my husband and I took the kids to Toys R Us, let them look around, then brought them to the front of the toy store and told them "if you start using the potty with no accidents, we'll bring you back and buy you any toy you want."

Leah was trained in a day and brought back to the toy store. Three days later Caroline was trained and brought back to the toy store. It was a powerful motivtor!

My advice - when your child is ready, they'll use the potty and it will be quick and reasonably pain-free. Pushing it too hard, too early is stressful for everyone. You have plently of time until September.

[brittone2]

Does she have other signs of being ready? Interest? Can she tell you when she's wet? Does she hold her pee for longer and longer periods of time?

I don't think there's anything wrong w/ encouraging, but if she's not ready, it is hard to make it happen. DS was totally dry at night from age 2 on (and we bit the bullet and went diaperless even at night at that point) and was day and night trained from right around 2. We never even had wet sheets at night...it was just physiologically easy for him to hold his pee. But pooping was another story...it took until he was over 3...he had a pattern of withholding that started when he was about 1ish and we dealt with some withholding cycles, etc. for a long time afterward.

DD is just over 2 and will occasionally go on the potty but mostly totally refuses and has no real interest whatsoever. She's starting to be dry for long periods during the day (and then *floods* her dipe) and often wakes up dry at night, so I think physiologically she's moving toward being ready. I thought she'd be more interested since her brother wears undies and uses the potty, but she could care less.

The other catch is that some kids will potty learn early, but it isn't that functional in some cases because they won't get to the bathroom unprompted, tell an adult they have to pee, or stop playing to go (especially in a setting like daycare or preschool). So even if they *can* go in the potty, it isn't that functional unless someone is following them around asking them constantly if they have to go, kwim?

I guess i"d find out what the expectations are. Will they clean up the occasional accident? Are pullups an option? Are they okay with frequently asking her if she needs to go if she does learn soon?

[hillview]

So we pt'ed DS #1 in about a month but he was 3. Here is what we did. Naked time, made a big deal of the potty. We tried pull ups but they didn't work well -- he'd wet through them. So we did underwear from the get go. We did a lot of positive feedback and eventually did M+Ms as a reward. When he had an accident we didn't make a big deal out of it. After a hardcore weekend of naked time he was pretty well on the road to success. We kept a potty in the minivan, we had a urinal in the hall and a seat in every bathroom. We were up against a school deadline as well.

Good luck!
/hillary

[bubbaray]

I guess i"d find out what the expectations are. Will they clean up the occasional accident? Are pullups an option? Are they okay with frequently asking her if she needs to go if she does learn soon?


The expectations are 100% PTd for day and for naps. No diapers or pullups AT ALL. They will clean up accidents occasionally. If the child isn't PTd, they aren't eligible for this daycare.

[bubbaray]

My advice - when your child is ready, they'll use the potty and it will be quick and reasonably pain-free. Pushing it too hard, too early is stressful for everyone. You have plently of time until September.


But, waiting until *she's* ready isn't necessarily in her best interest overall -- a move to this daycare will ultimately be best for all of us, including DD#2.

Hopefully she's PTd by then. But, I can't let her "lead" in this matter. FTR, her current DCP thinks she should be PTd by now too.

DD#2 wakes up dry most mornings and wakes up dry from all naps. She tells us when she's going about 50% of the time. She also routinely says she has to poop, but when we put her on the potty, nothing.

[Ceepa]

The expectations are 100% PTd for day and for naps. No diapers or pullups AT ALL. They will clean up accidents occasionally. If the child isn't PTd, they aren't eligible for this daycare.

I know you said you have no other choices for PS and I don't want to make you feel even worse but I would be concerned about a school that is so rigid about a child being PT'd. I understand that it could be a licensing issue that doesn't allow them to change a child, but persoinally I'd be uncomfortable with a school that draws that line in the sand.

You have a lot of time. I hope it all works out for you guys.

[bubbaray]

I know you said you have no other choices for PS and I don't want to make you feel even worse but I would be concerned about a school that is so rigid about a child being PT'd. I understand that it could be a licensing issue that doesn't allow them to change a child, but persoinally I'd be uncomfortable with a school that draws that line in the sand.


Its not a school or preschool (though they offer a PS program). Its a daycare. And, yes, it is a licensing issue (licensing is VERY strict here). I have other choices (she could stay where she is now), but that is NOT in her or our family best interest. It would mean that DD#1 will be in outof school care one hour extra per day b/c I will have to drop her off early in order to get DD#2 to her current daycare on the other side of town. DH will have to detour to DD#2's daycare to pick her up before he can go get DD#1. The logistics do not work long term to have them in two separate facilities.

[clc053103]

I also ran up against a deadline for preschool and for advice, got a lot of "wait till he's ready". I actually found that it was up to me to take the lead or it was never getting done. DS was content to "play" at using the potty without being pt'd for as long as I would let him get away with it. First off, I had to get current DCP on board, which meant demanding we ditch the pull ups and go with underpants- I figured for the price I was paying them, they should be more than willing to clean up a little pee. The reaction I got was surprising- they told me I was their kind of mom- apparently, other moms are more concerned with the extra laundry from clothing changes. At home, I explained that he could wear underpants and sleep in his big boy bed or he could wear diapers (NOT a pull up) and I would rebuild his crib. Up to him. Of course, he picked his bed.

From then it was a short process. Consistency was key, no back and forth with pull ups. DS does not like being naked so that was not an option for us. Others recommended staying home for days, but we managed to leave the house and do our regular routins. - but in the beginning days we went potty every 30 to 45 minutes until it became clear he could go longer.

As for #2, we got very lucky and all it took was catching him in the act one time and escorting him to the potty, talking about nice and clean he is not going in his pants. from then on, he always told us he needed to go poop.

Give it a try, if it goes awful then back up and try again in 6 weeks. You have 6 months of time and I bet that's more than enough!

[Ceepa]

I hear ya, Melissa. I'm sorry if I stressed you out more. :hug: Right now ours are in two different places and it's a PITA.

[bubbaray]

I also ran up against a deadline for preschool and for advice, got a lot of "wait till he's ready". I actually found that it was up to me to take the lead or it was never getting done. DS was content to "play" at using the potty without being pt'd for as long as I would let him get away with it. First off, I had to get current DCP on board, which meant demanding we ditch the pull ups and go with underpants- I figured for the price I was paying them, they should be more than willing to clean up a little pee. The reaction I got was surprising- they told me I was their kind of mom- apparently, other moms are more concerned with the extra laundry from clothing changes. At home, I explained that he could wear underpants and sleep in his big boy bed or he could wear diapers (NOT a pull up) and I would rebuild his crib. Up to him. Of course, he picked his bed.

From then it was a short process. Consistency was key, no back and forth with pull ups. DS does not like being naked so that was not an option for us. Others recommended staying home for days, but we managed to leave the house and do our regular routins. - but in the beginning days we went potty every 30 to 45 minutes until it became clear he could go longer.

As for #2, we got very lucky and all it took was catching him in the act one time and escorting him to the potty, talking about nice and clean he is not going in his pants. from then on, he always told us he needed to go poop.

Give it a try, if it goes awful then back up and try again in 6 weeks. You have 6 months of time and I bet that's more than enough!

Thank you! I was starting to feel (yet again) like evil mom for wanting to PT her when *I* need to (for reasons that are to her benefit).

Yes, this is totally my DD#2. I gotta take the lead on this. Unfortunately, my DCP requires pullups until they are PTd. However, she might be willing to use underwear inside the pullups (I recall discussing this with her when DD#1 was PTg, but it became a non-issue so I never did it).

DD#2 will also basically be at home FT for the month of August, so if all else fails, we can do it then. Though, we will be RVg for most of that, but I guess PT while camping might not be so bad, LOL

[mamalia]

What worked for us:
* Little bjorn potty both upstairs and downstairs. She liked being able to get settled in herself (versus a chair insert).
* Sticker chart. Not everyone's style to use bribery, but it worked for us. She got a sticker every time she went pee, and then once that was consistent she got one every time she went poop. She held out on the poop (well was really inconsistent) so I resorted to making little sad faces on the chart every time she had an accident because "her undies were sad about getting dirty."
* I did carry extra undies around for awhile, but then grew tired of accidents so the rule became if we were out of the house and had an accident she had to use a diaper. She did NOT like that (pride thing) and quickly PTd.
* The reward for a full chart was something of her choosing, and she chose a Bitty Baby outfit with some panties for her bitty baby when she was fully trained (I bought the bitty twins panties) because "her baby also knew how to go potty."
* We also did a lot of role play with her dolls. She would show her dolls how to go potty.
* I also made up a silly game (actually somewhat gross/morbid when I think about it) but it really worked for her. She is fascinated by firemen, so I told her that she was a fireman and had to save the burning house (that was inside the toilet) by putting out the fire with her pee. I'd pretend to be the talking house or people.
* I didn't use pull ups. She had the choice between diapers or panties.
* The readiness part is also helpful, I backed off once when DD was pretty much fully pee trained because we were in the midst of some really stressful decisions and going through lots of disruptions. She then regressed, but later pee and poop trained within a month once we tried again.

[brittone2]

I get what you are saying, and it is hard to be under the gun.

The thing is that it takes a certain amount of physiological/neurological maturity to be able to anticipate, hold, and then get to the bathroom in a timely fashion. That's the part that most experts will agree you can't force to happen. It is truly a physiological process. (eta: and that's very different from going on the potty sometimes when put there, for example. The whole sensing, anticipating, holding, and then getting to a bathroom process really requires a lot from a small child)

A nudge toward PTing may get kids who haven't been interested to start using the potty. BUt IMO, you can't make the physiological/neurological maturity happen before the child is ready, kwim?

Maybe she is at that point physically, but how can you be sure? That point is different for every child.

In any case, you certainly have plenty of time and I hope you can find a low-stress solution that works for everyone :hug:

[amandabea]

Try not to stress too much, Melissa. I was surprised at how well it has gone for us. We just make it out to be very exciting when we have to go potty and many times she says "mommy go potty too" and we cheer for both of us.

Yes, we do have accidents, but she's still learning and our daycare is supportive of her wearing panties during the learning process. She's got at least 7 extra panties and as many pants and socks there in case of accidents.

You've got lots of time to get this done and other than not having the motivation to go on the potty, it sounds like she'll learn quickly if she's already staying dry for naps and all night sometimes. You guys can figure out what the motivation is together - Dora panties, being a big girl, some toy, whatever it takes.

[kransden]

I know you're freaking out, but I wouldn't push it until say the end of May. That would give you 3 solid months to work on it. I would start the bribing though. My dd wanted big girl underpants like her friend. That was what worked for us. My friend's dc was a total PITA about it. Finally, when he found out he couldn't go on outings like his sister, that caused him to shape up. So whatever method worked.

[bubbaray]

THanks -- keep the tips coming!

So, while I was pretty "anti-food" bribery with DD#1, DH and I decided to break out the Smarties (like M&Ms, only peanut-free) tonight. We took shifts and he swears, DD#2 pooped on the potty, so I came racing into the room, did the Nanny 911 potty dance and she got a Smartie.

I then pulled out the Dora underwear from DD#1 (cleaned many times pre-storage and after storage) and she was TOTALLY into that. She kept Dora dry for an hour before bed and then peed a tiny bit into the potty.

I told her that she and I could go shopping for a Dora potty seat on the weekend and she asked for Ariel underwear too. We're already doing sticker charts for her, so we'll keep that up too. I will talk to her DCP tomorrow about doing underwear and then pullups and see how that goes.

Maybe I just needed to find the right "carrot".

Now, of course, I need advice on how to deal with a VERY JEALOUS DD#1, who now says she wants to be DD#2 b/c DD#2 is getting all the attention. Sigh. I told DD#1 that she could pick a nice treat if she kept her pullups dry at night for a week. At this rate, DD#2 will be night-time PTd before DD#1. Not comparing or anything, but that will push DD#1 right over the edge....

The fun never ends.

[gatorsmom]

Don't stress out. Your DD will change so much in the next 6 months. You do have some time to lay off the subject for a month and then come back to it. Hopefully by then she'll have forgotten why she didn't want to potty train. If not, come back to the subject in another month. Seriously, the less you push, the better it will be. Then, if she's anything like our stubborn mule Cha Cha, you can start the negotiation process. You know, "if you go peepee in the little potty, you can have this awesome book of stickers." Etcetera. We had to make a deal about every teensy step of the process. But it worked.

It will all turn out ok, you'll see. September is a long way away.

[niccig]

Naked time. You're house has heat, you can do it now. Have her run around when you're at home either naked or put a dress on without diaper/underpants. My DS was running around naked a little after 2 yo and he had one accident then would get to the potty. Problem was with wearing underpants, he refused to wear them. 6 months later, he FINALLY let me put a pair on him. So for those 6 months, we were potty trained at home, but no where else. If she'll let you put underpants on her now, have her wear underpants at home all the time.

I would also get the current DCP on board to help when you move her to underpants at school. Our preschool didn't have a deadline. DS was potty trained at home, but he would tell the preschool teachers that he only peed at home. He had accidents for about 2 weeks, even peed on one of the teachers when she picked him up. The teachers were great. Very supportive and the teacher he peed on told me she had experienced worse. Maybe after 2-3 weeks he was PTed at school as well.

[clc053103]

An idea for dealing with DD#1 jealousy issue- how about getting her involved in the PT process and reward her also with a smartie when she encourages her sister? Have her praise DS2 for her potty efforts, then you can praise her for being a supportive sister? Just an idea- I only have one so it's not from experience!

Good luck to you- you are not alone and your time crunch isn't bad at all! Around here the PT deadline is a regular thing as preschools are not allowed to change diapers due to licensing- most of us waited till summer and panicked!