When can you let them cry it out?

[L'sMommy]

Just curious - at what age did you let DC cry it out when you were trying to get them to sleep in the nursery by themselves? I've heard as early as 6 weeks (letting them cry for very short periods) to several months when you can let them cry for a longer period.

[JBaxter]

I never did if mine cried to long they would puke ....but I would think more like a year old.


6 weeks is CRAZY.

[cdlamis]

Honestly? I think letting a baby under a year (or even 2) cry it out is not ok- they are WAY too young to understand why their needs are not being met. They do eventually stop crying out for you- but it's because they have learned no one is coming to see why they are crying. And for me, that's just not worth any amount of extra sleep or sanity.
Young babies can only communicate hunger, lonliness (sp?), pain, etc through cries.
Just my opinion though!

[KrisM]

6 weeks is waaaay too young.

DS was about 1.5 years and DD about 9 months. DS just needed to be able to get back to sleep without me. DD was very close and it only took a night of Ferber method to get her completely through.

[Piglet]

We did it around 4 months for all 3 kids, but only limited versions. I m not advocating leaving a child of any age to cry and cry, but there was a clear point in each baby's early months when it seemed like they were on the verge of self-soothing and if left to their own devices for a few minutes longer than usual, they sometimes fell asleep. At that point we would try to work on sleep training. Granted all of my kids are finger suckers, so maybe 4 months is around the age where they mastered the sucking. Again, YMMV, but I see nothing wrong in reading your baby's cues, becoming more aware of their soothing preferences and giving them a few minutes to try to settle back down at an early age. I do see a problem in strict schedules, regimented CIO, old-fashioned Babywise, etc.

ETA: Only DS1 slept through the night once he learned to self-soothe. DS2 and DD were (are) waking up for many many months to come. I only think CIO works to help get the baby to sleep and thus saves you the hours of rocking, jiggling, etc. It is by no means a guarantee of a good night's sleep!

[ewpmsw]

Our pediatrician recommended letting DD cry it out in the crib at four months. It was SO HARD but we stuck with it and it has been worth it. Sticking to a routine for naps and bed time really helps her make the transition. I put a stuffed animal and a soft book into the crib and she plays herself to sleep most times. DD is nine months and there is still fussing in bed when we first put her in, but she stops soon after we shut the door. As far as she knows, we don't come back until after her nap. Of course, we're checking on her, and... Who can resist watching their baby playing and sleeping once in a while? Peeking in on her helps relieve the Mean Mommy anxiety. We've made exceptions when she's been ill or teething and just wouldn't/couldn't go to sleep.

[DrSally]

10 months for DS. It was pretty easy at that point. 6 weeks? Are you just talking about a little fussing? At that age, I would still respond to all cries.

ETA: after about 5 months, I think it's ok to see if they will settle on their own for a few minutes (less than 5). Sometimes they just cry a little (not vigorously) b/c they are settling down/discharging some extra energy. It quickly becomes apparent whether they are going to settle down or ramp up, in which case I go in. Peds these days want babies to sleep through the night at 4 months it seems (mine said the same and I just ignored). I don't know if they're only thinking about FF babies.

[egoldber]

I do not personally believe in CIO. But I also don't necessarily believe in rushing in at the first whimper. There is a huge range in between.

With my older DD I never did any type of sleep training and I never needed to. She slept through the night at 8-10 weeks and then fell into a natural routine at around 6-7 months. She has always been a good sleeper and was a good napper.

My younger DD is a different story, but for different reasons, I have also never let her cry. As an infant she had moderate reflux and food intolerances. She was exclusively breastfed, was a preemie and tiny. I never deliberately left her to cry. She is also the type that makes herself hysterical and vomits if left to cry too long (has happened occasionally when I have had to leave her to deal with crisis situation with older DD) and then it just takes forever to soothe her. She still does not sleep through the night, although I have recently started giving her melatonin at night and it seems to be helping.

[L'sMommy]

Ok - that is what I thought about 6 weeks being WAY too early, and i agree with the PP. I know someone who did that, though. We'll wait a few months before sleep training. We're trying to work on the self-soothing, but in small doses. I let him be when he "yelps" here and there but when he starts to cry I do go in to see what is wrong. Once in a while he has fallen asleep on his own with no fussing. Most of the time we wait until he's fallen asleep before we put him down.

[doberbrat]

another anti cio person here. babies can ONLY cry to communicate their needs.

to ignore them to me says you dont believe they have valid needs.

I dont believe in rushing in at the first wimper either and there are times when baby needs to cry for a few min - so mom can grab a quick shower for instance or go have a cry herself in the bathroom only to emerge a better, calmer mom.

but systematic cio, I believe is harmful to infants.

[DrSally]

Ok - that is what I thought about 6 weeks being WAY too early, and i agree with the PP. I know someone who did that, though. We'll wait a few months before sleep training. We're trying to work on the self-soothing, but in small doses. I let him be when he "yelps" here and there but when he starts to cry I do go in to see what is wrong. Once in a while he has fallen asleep on his own with no fussing. Most of the time we wait until he's fallen asleep before we put him down.

You might have an easier time in the long run if you put him down drowsy, but awake. Also, it is my opinion that babies learn to "self-soothe" by having repeated experiences of being soothed by a parent, which they then internalize and have access to those feelings/experiences as their memory, neurological, physical systems mature.

[MoJo]

My ped said at four DAYS old, we should put her in her crib (in her own room) awake, let her cry, and after 10 minutes, if she was still crying, we could go in, pat her back for just a minute, but NOT talk/sing/shush and NOT pick her up.

We didn't do any of that, but that's what we were told. And this is the ONLY ped ANYONE I asked recommended in my area.

For some time, I've been letting her cry for a few minutes; she nearly always fusses a little before falling asleep. (And she does soothe herself to sleep, except at night when she still falls asleep during her last nursing). But if she cries for 10 minutes, there's something wrong with her, and I don't expect her to resolve it herself, even at 8 months!

[kijip]

My ped said at four DAYS old, we should put her in her crib (in her own room) awake, let her cry, and after 10 minutes, if she was still crying, we could go in, pat her back for just a minute, but NOT talk/sing/shush and NOT pick her up.

I think it is important for parents to remember that we are the parents. The pediatrician is a medical doctor, generally is not a sleep expert and generally not a parenting expert. CIO is a choice parents get to make, not something that *needs* to be done or something that works for all parents or all babies.

[AnnieW625]

You might have an easier time in the long run if you put him down drowsy, but awake. Also, it is my opinion that babies learn to "self-soothe" by having repeated experiences of being soothed by a parent, which they then internalize and have access to those feelings/experiences as their memory, neurological, physical systems mature.

I agree with Dr. Sally about self soothing infants to get them to sleep. I will preface this post by stating I have never read a child rearing book (with the exception of the American Pediatric Guide I got from the hospital, Baby Signs, and a Child Development book from when I was a freshman in college) so I had no idea that there was a whole science to sleep training. Once the baby was born I asked my mom for help with just about everything.

I started sleep training/CIO with DD at less than 6 weeks I think. I didn't know it was called CIO or Ferber Method at that time; I just asked my mom how long I was suppose to let DD cry before going in to check on her. She said never more than 20 minutes. I never went more than 5-10 minutes though if she was doing her angry cry. If I had just finished feeding her, waited a half hour or so to change her diaper and then put her to bed and she cried simply because she didn't want to be in bed then I could leave her in longer without going into check her, but again don't think I ever went over 15 minutes.

[Raidra]

I'm strongly against CIO, but the number I've heard from others is 6 months. Personally, I think systematic CIO is cruel. Think about it from the baby's perspective. They don't understand that you're trying to help them, all they know is that they're alone, in the dark, and their needs are not being met. They're scared and upset, and the person who is supposed to make everything better is gone. I think it's much better to wait until the baby is a lot older, a little bit rational, and ready to fall asleep on her own. And even then, I wouldn't let my child cry.

I'm a big believer in fostering independence, but there are better ways to do it. My children have never cried it out, yet they both learned how to soothe themselves to sleep around 12-18 months, and started sleeping through from 8pm-6am at about the same time. They play well on their own for hours. They're not clingy or needy, nor are they manipulative or spoiled.

I'd also like to second the opinion on ignoring parenting advice from pediatricians if it goes against your instincts. My pedi told me that I need to get my 4 month old out of my room, put his crib in the hall if there wasn't space anywhere else, and let him cry it out. Right. We learned early on to answer questions like "How does he sleep?" with "Great!" regardless.

[srhs]

Well, I didn't want to do CIO, but it was not the terrible neglectful thing some make it out to be. I think it really depends on the child. In our case, everything we did to soothe DS and get him back to sleep throughout the night (including moving a mattress to the floor to cosleep with nursing mom) resulted in MORE frequent wakings with LESS responsiveness to our soothing. It was very difficult. I don't think many kids are like this, but mine was. The MORE we did to soothe him back to sleep, the more he needed it and the more he required we do, specifically new soothing techniques as he resented the old. I finally had to admit that all my attempts at helping him were robbing him and us of getting any quality sleep.
Once we got established on the Weissbluth sleep routine expectations, we finally did Ferber CIO at 8 mos. We did it to our comfort level and followed the 5-10-15 check and console.
Again, I think it totally depends on the kid, but if DC2 is like DC1, I won't be nearly as eager to get my baby hooked on every soothing technique I can glean post 4 mos.
One of the greatest things at night post-CIO is that when DS cries, we can respond immediately if it goes on more than a few minutes, knowing he genuinely needs something, rather than playing a guessing game every 45 minutes discerning in exhaustion if he's really gassy, hungry, dirty, in pain, etc. or just wanting us.

[KBecks]

8 months is my minimum.

[AngelaS]

I did it after my children slept thru the night for three nights in a row. If they woke up any night after that, I'd go in, give them a snuggle, wrap them back up and lay them down the same way I did at bedtime. None of them fussed more than 10 or so minutes.

I'm fully convinced that getting into their routine and following it, as well as helping them learn to fall asleep is why my girls have always been such great sleepers. They're older now and my 4 year old will ASK for her nap or go put herself to bed because it's part of her routine. They all sleep about 11 hours at night too and have for years.

[WatchingThemGrow]

We did it at 5.5 months with DD. DS slept through the night around 8-9 weeks IIRC, so there was no need.

CIO was the BEST thing we ever did for the sake of our family's sanity and health. We've only ever heard from either of our kids after 7:30 and handful of times in almost 3 years. Watch the next one have sleep issues....

Are you reading any of the sleep books?

[L'sMommy]

WatchingThemGrow - yes, I've read Weissbluth's book as well as BabyWise (I just couldn't get into Weissbluth's book - way too technical). I haven't read Mindell or Ferber.

My post was more out of curiosity and after I posted in the Lounge I realized that there is a Sleep forum also. We haven't decided on what approach to take. Right now we are focused on providing him with what he needs. He has been sleeping in his crib since he was 1.5 weeks old (he's 6 weeks now), but I finally broke down yesterday and put him in the carseat because he would not go to sleep. He is very inconsistent during the night. Some nights he is up every 10 minutes for several hours and other nights he can sleep 4-6 hrs straight once he finally falls asleep. It's very hard for me to put him down before he's asleep because I know he'll be up again in a few minutes and when I'm dead tired I just want him to sleep for a couple of hours at least. So that is why I wait until he's sleeping in my arms to put him down....but I realize I may regret this at some point.

I've enjoyed reading the posts.

[SnuggleBuggles]

WatchingThemGrow - yes, I've read Weissbluth's book as well as BabyWise (I just couldn't get into Weissbluth's book - way too technical). I haven't read Mindell or Ferber.

My post was more out of curiosity and after I posted in the Lounge I realized that there is a Sleep forum also. We haven't decided on what approach to take. Right now we are focused on providing him with what he needs. He has been sleeping in his crib since he was 1.5 weeks old (he's 6 weeks now), but I finally broke down yesterday and put him in the carseat because he would not go to sleep. He is very inconsistent during the night. Some nights he is up every 10 minutes for several hours and other nights he can sleep 4-6 hrs straight once he finally falls asleep. It's very hard for me to put him down before he's asleep because I know he'll be up again in a few minutes and when I'm dead tired I just want him to sleep for a couple of hours at least. So that is why I wait until he's sleeping in my arms to put him down....but I realize I may regret this at some point.

I've enjoyed reading the posts.

Eh, at 6 weeks I wouldn't worry about anything habit forming. Just do what you have to do! I still nurse ds2 to sleep. Sometimes he doesn't fall asleep though and he plays to sleep in his crib instead. All the books talk about the gloom and doom of not putting them down awake but I have not had bad experiences with it. YMMV but just throwing that out there. I think sleep books can be too rigid and offer worst case scenarios.

Are you swaddling? It might be a better option than the carseat. If you use the carseat make sure it is not on an elevated surface and that baby is strapped in. Too much time in that position is not really good for them so if you can find an alternative I would be on the lookout.

Beth

[L'sMommy]

Yes, we are swaddling, but in the crib he works himself out of the swaddle at some point in the night. He had never liked his arms to be swaddled so it's easier for him to loosen it up. The car seat is on the floor so it can't fall anywhere. I know, I was avoiding the car seat for a long time but I got desperate yesterday!! We'll have to keep working on the crib. We have made the decision not to bring him into bed with us so the crib is pretty much the only option for DS....

Question - so, during the day he has plenty of places to nap (pack/play, swing, bouncy seat). Is it ok for him to nap in places other than the crib or should I put him in teh crib for naps? Reason he's in the other things is because they are all downstairs and we barely have the need to be in his room during the day (everything that we need for the day is pretty much on the main level of the house so this way I'm not running up and down the stairs all day). I imagine once he gets into toys and such I will start using the nursery more, but right now he doesn't play with anything.

[Raidra]

My first only slept in my bed or his crib, for naps and at night. My second napped swaddled in his swing until about 8 months when he started napping in his crib. At night he slept with us or in his crib.

My third still naps swaddled in her swing at 8.5 months. She now sleeps in a sleep sack in her crib, but when she was tiny, she slept swaddled in our bed or in her side-carred crib. Her crib is no longer side-carred, but still in our room.

We never encountered any issues having always put the babies down fully asleep. When they were ready, they learned to fall asleep on their own quite easily, with no crying.

Six weeks is so little. I know if it's your first, six weeks seems pretty old compared to when he was first born, but really.. six weeks is just teeny. Take your time and enjoy the rocking now because it won't be long before he won't need it anymore. You're not going to spoil him by doing what you can to ensure he gets enough sleep.

[brittone2]

Six weeks is so little. I know if it's your first, six weeks seems pretty old compared to when he was first born, but really.. six weeks is just teeny. Take your time and enjoy the rocking now because it won't be long before he won't need it anymore. You're not going to spoil him by doing what you can to ensure he gets enough sleep.

ITA. I also think you need to consider that a 6 week old is not equipped neurologically/developmentally to self soothe.

Ferber now says a minimum of 6 months in his newer books, fwiw, and he has even acknowledged things like colseeping can work well for many families (we are one of those families). I nursed my kids to sleep, etc. but in their own time they moved to their own rooms and sleep just fine. DS is newly 5 and has been putting himself to sleep in his own room with relative ease since he was about 3.

I don't buy that meeting their needs sets up long term sleep problems, etc. Sure, that may be true for a handful of kids, but you could also argue that for a handful of kids making sleep a stressful situation, etc. may be potentially damaging as well (IMO).

Even w/ sleep training, you are supposed to take into account the possibility of things like reflux, growth spurts, teething, etc. IMO things change so much week to week, month to month, that I would have personally felt uncertain that my child *wasn't* going through some sort of physical issue resulting in the crying.

Adults like comfort too. Most of us prefer sleeping in the same bed with our spouses or partners...physical comfort and contact is a human need, IMO. I know cosleeping doesn't work for everyone and isn't the right fit for every family, but at the same time, I think it is a basic human need to have contact and cuddling (and not necessarily a "bad habit" unless you consider adults wanting to sleep next to their spouse a bad habit as well, kwim?)...for that reason, I have no problem w/ rocking to sleep, nursing to sleep, etc. As my kids have matured they figured it out on their own, and with few tears involved from any of us.

eta: i'm not personally opposed to a little fussing, but I know w/ my kids that quickly escalated into full blown crying. Some infants will fuss for a few mins before falling asleep, and I personally could have probably handled that (maybe not at 6 weeks though...for me). BUt crying...or intentionally letting them cry at 6 weeks is way out of my comfort zone.

back again to edit to fix typo.

[Raidra]

Adults like comfort too. Most of us prefer sleeping in the same bed with our spouses or partners...physical comfort and contact is a human need, IMO. I know cosleeping doesn't work for everyone and isn't the right fit for every family, but at the same time, I think it is a basic human need to have contact and cuddling (and not necessarily a "bad habit" unless you consider adults wanting to sleep next to their spouse a bad habit as wekk, kwim?)...for that reason, I have no problem w/ rocking to sleep, nursing to sleep, etc. As my kids have matured they figured it out on their own, and with few tears involved from any of us.

Exactly. If I get to sleep next to my husband, why shouldn't my kids get some comfort as they sleep, too? I used to feel so bad for Colwyn when he was an only and we had moved him into his own room. Now he and Lachlann share a room, and I can't imagine any of us wanting them to be in separate rooms. Because of the way our house is set up, Fiona will most likely stay in our room until she's ready to move to a toddler bed or mattress on the floor, and then she'll move in with the boys in their teeny bedroom.