Cutting off family?

[blisstwins]

This is complicated so I will try to be brief. My mother and brother are super close and are pretty awful to me. My mom and dad divorced when I was little and my mom never worked through her feelings of hatred for him. My mom and brother are not educated, my father was. My father also made a significant amount of money in his life. Fast forward to a little more than a year ago. My father died and I am executor. I am educated (brother dropped out of college, I have a PhD) and I was close to my dad. My dad was rough on my brother, but I have done nothing to him. My father's estate is not settled and I am trying to run the family business he established. I get NO HELP from my brother at all--just demands for money and things that are almost jeapardizing the business. My brother took his inheritance early (forced me with threats) and after the market crash and legal fees there was nothing left for me and DH. My mom does not see this or anything else as a problem. My husband and I work like dogs and have begged for my brother's help. Nothing. Now he wants more money and my mother is backing him.
I have children and they love my mother. I am exhuasted. I grew up feeling that my mom loved my brother more. In fact, I always felt she kinda hated me. When she got mad at me she would always call me by my father's name and say "you even walk like him." My father was a flawed man, deeply flawed. I did not choose to be on his side, but I did well in school. It seems ridiculous.
Anyway, my husband used to be close to my mother and after years of marriage and the ugliness brought out by my father's death he now hates her and thinks I need to have nothing to do with her or my brother. I am finally at the point I agree.
Do we let her continue to see the children? They love her. Do I go to extended family events? I don't know how to do this and honestly, I really need her not in my life, at least for a while. We live in the same town, FWIW.

[Corie]

My DH cut off his ties with his immediate family. He did it over 10 years
ago. They were not nice people. Many many backstories.
He is a much happier person. No more crap to deal with or people
messing with his head.

[blisstwins]

It really scares me. I feel orphaned. I am barely over the death of my father. It has just finally sunk in that the reason my mother is awful to me is that she does not really love me. That is not exactly right, I know she loves me, but for whatever reasons she doesn't like me and she is unable to be kind/supportive of me relative to the awfulness my brother dishes out.

Does your husband have anything to do with extended family? Do his parents not know your children? We are a largish Italian-American family and there are lots of family things we go to together. At what point does estrangement become public? Do you expect extended family to respect and not question your decision? How do you treat would-be peacemakers?

We will not go to my mother's for Easter...a first. But I do feel sad that my children will miss out.

This is very uncharted territory. I was supposed to go to visit cousins with my mother in a couple of weeks. Do I cancel and tell the cousins why?

I would really appreciate any insights. Thanks and sorry for the loss in your DH's family. It sucks.

[Corie]

When DH cut off contact with his immediate family, it included
everyone. (extended family too.)

DH heard later (from a long-time friend) that his father died. DH didn't
go to the funeral.
I think his family knows about our 1st child. Not for sure though.
I'm pretty sure that they have no clue about our second child.

We got a Christmas card this year from his sister. Don't know how she
found us since we moved across the country. But she did. DH
tore it up and threw it away.

My DD will sometimes ask DH if he has any brothers or sisters. DH doesn't
like to talk to the kids about it. It's too hard to explain to a child
and she doesn't need the gory details.

[bt0510]

This is a very tough situation you are in. I feel bad for you. With my wife's family, we don't have the full blown hatred, but we don't care to see 3 of the 5 siblings, or the parents. In our case, we are lucky in that my wife was always the one making contact. So, she just stopped making contact, and they don't make contact with us much either. I would recommend trying to ignore you brother and mother, but it sounds like they reach out to you. If you ignore your brother, he sounds like the type to show up randomly somewhere and make a big stink. Not fun.

I don't know the details of the remainder of the estate, but I would recommend getting the will and following it to the letter. For instance, if brother was meant to get X and you've already given him that, tell him flat out that he is done. If he is due more, tell him to get off your back until "the lawyers" figure the rest out. Even if "the lawyers" are fictional.

I would make a decision quickly and stick to it. As far as family, I bet they will know exactly what you mean. For instance, one of my wife's cousins learned about some "stuff" going on with wife's mother. She said, "so her and my mom are definitely sisters". Her mom was exactly the same.

Good luck. Remember that your most important family members are right next to you when you need them.

[amandabea]

I agree with BT's comments - at least for now. Establish the groundrules for both your brother and mother. If they don't follow them, remind them and let them know that if they do it again/don't abide by the terms, then you will cease communication with them - end of story and then stick to it.

I'm sorry for your loss and for the issues you're having to deal with.

[ThreeofUs]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Poor family relationships often get a lot harder after a death - happened to me, too.

I cut off a brother after repeated problems. I still wish there were some way we could have a relationship, and even though that's just not possible, it still hurts.

In your case, I would take some space. As Amanda says, establish rules for them to follow, and if they don't then cut them off totally. Explain it as simply as possible to your kids, but don't allow them to be in contact either. You don't want any situation to develop that involves your children.

May things turn around soon.

[niccig]

My Dad cut off his only and younger brother. He was a drug addict and my Dad got tired of having to find him, pull him out of some hell hole, help clean him up and then have him take off with money from their mother. Of course, my grandmother loved her baby and he could do no wrong. I was about 8 and Dad told us we would no longer be seeing our uncle. He would visit my grandmother, who lived next door to us, and my mother/father wouldn't let us go over to visit. Anytime his brother would call asking for money, my father would say no and hang up the phone. Fast forward 15 years or so, and Dad started having contact with his brother again. He had cleaned himself up a bit. They talk on the phone and Dad occasionally visits, we moved to another state so they don't see each other much.

We asked Dad about it once, and he said it hurt to do it and it hurt to know that his mother loved his brother more than him (unfair will etc), but that his family was us. He didn't want us to grow up with that person in our lives, he thought we would all keep on getting hurt.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but you need to do whatever you have to, to protect you and your immediate family.

[niccig]

I don't know the details of the remainder of the estate, but I would recommend getting the will and following it to the letter. For instance, if brother was meant to get X and you've already given him that, tell him flat out that he is done. If he is due more, tell him to get off your back until "the lawyers" figure the rest out. Even if "the lawyers" are fictional.


I agree. Don't discuss any estate business. They have to go through the lawyer.

[sste]

Well, I am never short on opinions.

1. I would stay in touch with your family if you can manage that. The reason is that you mention your children love them - - and I am assuming that they aren't pulling any of this crap with your kids. If you can emotionally distance yourself from this, no easy task I know, then I would not sever all ties. It is a big thing to be the one that cut off your kids relationship with grandparents and I think you only want to do that when there is no other recourse available. You are not quite there yet.

2. These are people with serious issues as far as blaming another person -- your father - - for alot of things in their own lives. I think your father's death has rocked their world because now there is no one to scapegoat. So that leaves you until they catch their balance again.

3. Emotions are running high right now. Do not make any final decisions.

4. Blisstwin, please don't take this the wrong way but you sound like you are in over your head with running this business and being the executor. Those are stressful things in a normal economy. Can you afford legal help - - or to lean more heavily on your legal help. In your position, I would appoint the lawyer to deal with your family on ALL issues related to the inheritance and explain to your family that all calls to the lawyer are reducing THEIR share of the money. You can have the lawyer check in with you once a week to make sure your family is not running up a big bill. For the business, have you been able to work with a trusted and savvy accountant? A consultant? What I am getting at is that I think you need to assemble a team of experts/consultants . . .

[MontrealMum]

I am so sorry you're dealing with this. :hug: I have had to be tough with my dad on several occasions (cut off contact until he started behaving), and it's been hard, but worth it.

My 2 cents: did you know that you can charge yourself a fee from the estate as an executor? My mom was my grandmother's executor and had some problems of her own with her brothers (not to the level you're describing though) and followed her attorney's advice very closely. I can't remember if it's a percentage of the estate, or a flat fee...but in any case I'm sure it depends on the state you're in. Something to add to the list to ask your lawyer. And if you've already paid your brother his half I'd say he's done. I certainly wouldn't give him anything from the business which is now the fruits of your labor. And I doubt that you owe him anything more legally, but again, add that to the list...

[blisstwins]

My face is swollen from crying over this. There is no abuse involved, just my mother loving my brother to the point insanity and the hurt it causes me to know that whatever he does she is on his side. She is a horrible mother, but a good grandmother and I really don't want to deny my kids that. My husband feels she has forfeited her right to see them, that she is a horrible parent, and he does not want her in our children's life. He also feels that if she does not see her grandchildren she may be more reflective about how serious this is, etc.
I really don't feel children should be pawns....I just have know idea how to do this.
As for the estate issues, my brother is now a partner in our family business, which is struggling in this economy. They (mother and brother) thought my dad was rich and they want money. I do not take salary or anything else for looking after the business. My brother is angry money is not coming his way and he wants to take our of our reserves, which I feel we need. In fact, he signed a contract without discussing it with me and is demanding a large sum of money. My mother just says: "well it's his money" without regard for the fact he is jeapardizing the business. I did not even get a courtesy heads up or do we have the cash. No thank yous for my handling everything, nothing.

[blisstwins]

MM: I know about the fee. I could have taken a ghod amount of money, but the money is not really there because of the stock market. If I took the money our reserves would be too low. So I signed off on my right to the executor's fees and I signed off on my claim to my father's cash. We got nothing, basically. I have always said that a person's death and winning the lottery are different things. That it is our responsibility to make our own way in life, etc.

[Binkandabee]

I am in a very, very similar situation in that my mother prefers my brother to me and always has. My brother and I couldn't be more opposite - I'm highly educated, work full time +, he barely finished highschool, works less than full time (at least he works) - you get the picture.

We went through a horrible, horrible blow up this year at the holidays and then and there I decided that I was simply going to back away, but not cut off ties completely because I do love them dearly as does my DD. I used to call my brother and mother at least 2 or 3 times a week, now I call my mom only once and I don't call my brother. Funny thing is - they don't call me, either. It just got too exhausting for me to put all the effort into our relationship to only be crapped on.

But, my mother doesn't (for the most part) treat me horribly when it is just her and me. I get treated bad when my brother gets involved, so I flat out don't discuss him with her. If she brings him up, I am literally silent and change the subject because I will not change her mind and whatever I say will be the wrong thing.

I really don't know enough about your situation to say whether or not you should cut off all ties, as you may very well be justified in doing so. But, if you do, make sure its what you want - it is a decision that will hurt for a very, very long time - maybe forever.

If your brother is the problem (like mine is) would it be possible to remove him without removing your mother?

[npace19147]

Frankly it sounds like you are taking too much #$^& from the rest of your family. They get all the money, you get all the work and responsibility.

If you do not show respect for yourself then your mother and brother never will either. Why have you signed off on fees and cash that you are due but given it to your brother? To make peace. But there is no peace to be found in this situation. They will only keep coming back and stomping all over you.

It sounds to me like the best if not only way out of this situation is to dissolve the family business. They do not sound like people that you would want to be in business with of your own choosing, so don't let circumstances force you into this position. Consult an attorney and an accountant and find out what your options are.

As far as your mother's relationship with your kids - I would eliminate or severely reduce contact. It is not a good role model for your kids to see your mother treating you like that. You need to respect yourself, model that for your kids and keep away from people who don't respect you.

I hope this isn't too harsh but I went though a very tough time with my own mother - didn't cut ties altogther but had to severely limit it for my own sake. It is a very difficult thing to do but it can bring about peace and happiness to the rest of your life and your immediate family, who really are the focus now, not your mother and brother.

Good luck!

etc: spelling

[DrSally]

I'm so sorry for your situation. I don't have time to write a response this deserves right now. I will write more later...

[ThreeofUs]

My face is swollen from crying over this. There is no abuse involved, just my mother loving my brother to the point insanity and the hurt it causes me to know that whatever he does she is on his side. She is a horrible mother, but a good grandmother and I really don't want to deny my kids that. My husband feels she has forfeited her right to see them, that she is a horrible parent, and he does not want her in our children's life. He also feels that if she does not see her grandchildren she may be more reflective about how serious this is, etc.
I really don't feel children should be pawns....I just have know idea how to do this.
As for the estate issues, my brother is now a partner in our family business, which is struggling in this economy. They (mother and brother) thought my dad was rich and they want money. I do not take salary or anything else for looking after the business. My brother is angry money is not coming his way and he wants to take our of our reserves, which I feel we need. In fact, he signed a contract without discussing it with me and is demanding a large sum of money. My mother just says: "well it's his money" without regard for the fact he is jeapardizing the business. I did not even get a courtesy heads up or do we have the cash. No thank yous for my handling everything, nothing.


Go get legal help NOW - even if it's from a clinic. This sounds too serious for you to be trying to work out on your own. You are in danger of losing everything you, your DH and your DC own.

[Corie]

Go get legal help NOW - even if it's from a clinic. This sounds too serious for you to be trying to work out on your own. You are in danger of losing everything you, your DH and your DC own.


I agree!! It sounds like your mom and brother are going to run the
business into the ground.

[Melanie]

I'm so sorry. I've had to cut off one part of my family, too. I, personally, felt based upon their actions towards me, their involvement in my children's lives would be nothing other than harmful. But they were not involved much anyway, and far from a 'good grandparent.'

Tough Call, I'm sorry. What a terrible situation. I will never understand how a family member's death breeds such greed. I've seen it sooo many times, it's certainly far from unique.

[DrSally]

I agree about getting help with the business, and maybe dissolving the business may be the best thing to do. That way, your brother can't bring you and your whole familly down. It's interesting how people think the deceased were "rich", even if the money isn't there. Maybe more wishful thinking.

I understand about the money not being there for you to take a salary or fee for running the business. BUT, you are putting a lot of work in. Even if there was a way to have the business "owe" you back wages. That way, if your brother wanted to take out money, the business may have to owe you first, KWIM? I think sometimes people don't want to take money from a deceased parent's estate out of feelings of loyalty. When, if you remove emotions from the $$ equation, you do deserve a salary for your work.

On the emotional front. All I can say is that I agree with pp's that this is a time where emotions are running really high. I think it's a truism that death doesn't change family dynamics, only magnifys them. If you can extricate yourself from this financial/business situation, you may be able to get some distance from the emotional turmoil. You may feel loyalty towards your dad in keeping the business afloat, but really, you have to do what's best for you and your family.

Also, if it helps you feel better, I bet your mom's attitude toward you is ALL about your dad and not you.

[dcmom2b3]

Go get legal help NOW - even if it's from a clinic. This sounds too serious for you to be trying to work out on your own. You are in danger of losing everything you, your DH and your DC own.

:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

If you'd like, you can PM me your location and I'll try to find some referrals/resources in your area. It's hard to tell exactly what the background is from your posts (and not my area of law, anyway, so I can't really advise on specifics) but I'm worried for you that the pressure from your family is making it hard for you to keep a solid boundary between your role as executor of the estate and your role as a family member. And that's not good. At the very least, a lawyer could be a buffer between you and your family on estate issues, giving you a little room to breathe.

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you, it's awful that the people who should be supporting you in a time of family loss are the ones making the situation into a crisis.

ETA: I've cut off various family members, to varying degrees, over the years. It's always served as a wake-up call to them about what my boundaries are. The relationships may or may not have suffered, but I know I'm a hell of a lot happier -- they know they can't pi$$ on me and tell me it's raining. I finally feel like a grown-up, my own person.

[tamie]

I am really sorry you are going through all this and I pray you find some resolve soon.

My DH and I went though a similar situation with his sister's partner recently. SIL passed from breast cancer six months ago and the partner gave the whole family, especially DH's parents a really hard time and still will if we let her. We were really torn on whether or not to continue the relationship with her. She is great with the kids and they all love her. As a couple, SIL and partner were fairly reclusive during their 10 year relationship and only came out of their "cave" on certain holidays to be with the family. Partner was the only tie to SIL and her last 10 years of life.

Anyway, we finally came to the conclusion that if Partner could not respect DH and I, then she couldn't have the bonus relationship with our kids. I know this situation is not as severe as yours, but maybe the reasoning is helpful.

All the best to you.

[KBecks]

I totally agree that you need to look at what is best for your family as well as your relatives right now. It is not fair to you to not take any money for your work. I don't think you would expect anyone else to work for free. It also sounds like while you may be inclined to invest in the business now for the future, that your mom and brother do not have the same goals of growing the business and they will undermine your goals. So given that situation, perhaps being in business together is something you do not want to do. And you should get a lawyer or other professional advisor to talk with about short and long term plans and what is most responsible for all involved. Best wishes. After the money is settled, then perhaps you can deal with the relationships separately. You may want to talk to a consultant that specializes in family business issues to help you through the emotional aspects of this as well.