talk me off the carseat to booster ledge...

[lizajane]

DS1 is in a regent- 85 lbs max and height limit is 53 inches. he is, at last check, 49 inches tall and down to 52 lbs (from 55- just started focalin for severe ADHD.) he likes the seat and it is comfortable. but he only has a few more inches- he grows FAST. he isn't even 6 yet! and our biggest issue is getting in and out of the car. i have to FIGHT him every single day to get in and put on his seatbelt.

when he gets into daddy's car, where we use a backless booster that was given to us free (by a friend- safe) he puts his own belt on without complaint. and he gets SO excited about riding in it. in his seat, his back gets hot and he freaks out (sensory style) but he can move his back away from the back of the seat in a booster. (he can't ride in the boosters with a back- too straight for him and he completely wigs out.

i am trying SO hard to talk myself into leaving him in the regent for 4 more inches. but golly, it is soooooo much easier to get going in the morning when he is riding in the booster. he is happy and doesn't BEG me to buckle his seat belt FOR him when i am trying to load his brother and get all their stuff to the car.

honestly... really honestly... would you just let him switch? i can't let myself just do it because i know the regent is safer (he has been in it for just under 2 years because he outgrew his marathon way before the weight limit.)

ETA: i posted here instead of carseats because my question is really about parenting and whether you would make the easier life choice, not about the seats. i know which one is "better."

[KrisM]

I'd probably switch him, but to a high back booster, not a backless. The high backs are safer than the backless.

[lizajane]

I'd probably switch him, but to a high back booster, not a backless. The high backs are safer than the backless.

he really can't ride in it. we have one with a back and he it seriously gives him panic attacks. last night, he rode in it and THREW UP when we got to our destination! which is why i have him in the 5 point regent instead of the high back booster.

[o_mom]

If you were talking about putting him in a highback booster, I could go there. A backless though...

Video of side impact in a backless:
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest/videos/tests_2001/seitencrash/Baby_Sunny_touring_P3_vorne.mpg

Video of highback boosters (watch #2 as that will be closer to US seats - the side impact is at the end of the clip):
http://www.oeamtc.at/videobox/index.php?domain=oeamtc&videobox=Kindersitze_bis_36_kg_oder_14_Jahre&movie_kind=swf

Can you take him to look at some highback boosters? Maybe find something with a more open back that doesn't get hot? If he is moving significantly away from the seat in the backless booster, that may not be safe regardless. Let me think on what would be more open in the back.....


ETA: head injuries are 70% higher in backless vs. highback boosters. :(

ETA2: What highback do you have now?

[egoldber]

I would keep him in the Regent. I totally get the morning struggle (only it's my younger one that's the PITA to get into her seat) and Sarah has only, in the last 6 months, been able to do the buckles in her Regent herself.

My goal is to get her to 8 and then switch to a booster full time. There is just such a huge difference in the emotional maturity level between a 5 and 8 (or even 7) year old. IMO an immature wiggler is one that needs to be harnessed more than anyone. Especially if the choice is 5 point or backless. JMO.

That being said, maybe there are ways to make it less of a struggle? What exactly is his issue with the Regent?

[o_mom]

One other question... what kind of car will he be in, what seating position and does it have side curtain airbags? (ok, that's three questions!)

[KrisM]

he really can't ride in it. we have one with a back and he it seriously gives him panic attacks. last night, he rode in it and THREW UP when we got to our destination! which is why i have him in the 5 point regent instead of the high back booster.

Why the problem with the highback and not the Regent? Maybe another highback that isn't confining?

But, I'd keep him in the Regent over a backless for a while longer.

[egoldber]

he can move his back away from the back of the seat in a booster

I just noticed you said this. To me this says he is not riding in the booster properly which means it provides even less protection.

[lizajane]

Why the problem with the highback and not the Regent? Maybe another highback that isn't confining?

But, I'd keep him in the Regent over a backless for a while longer.

the way the back is so straight. his regent has a bit of recline.

[alexsmommy]

Honesly, I think this is one where you have to decide knowing your own child. Kids with SI - it's tough. If he is loosening the belts on the Regent to get comfortable and not feel so "trapped", then you have to make the call if he is actually safer in the booster where the belts will tighten upon impact and if he is more willing to sit "properly" in it. I don't think any parent who has not dealt with SI can fully appreciate how difficult the issue is. Best of luck.

[niccig]

the way the back is so straight. his regent has a bit of recline.

Post over in the car seat forum, just in case the CPSTechs don't hang out here in the lounge.

I would try to work out what is bugging him about the Regent, there might be a fix, before going straight to a backless booster. Or one of the CPSTechs might know of a high back booster with more recline.

[lizajane]

I just noticed you said this. To me this says he is not riding in the booster properly which means it provides even less protection.

i don't mean he leans forward. just that he can peel his back up just enough to get his shirt unstuck from his back. not to mention that a seat in a car is way less "hot" than a carseat back.

the wiggling around in a booster is the whole reason i got a regent. didn't want my ADHD kid all over the place in a booster. that was at 4, i think. but now at 6, he just keeps getting bigger!

he is ok in the regent. and he hasn't QUITE figured out that he is almost 6 (on the 23rd) and rides in a "carseat" instead of a "big kid seat." technically, he has been teased but i jumped in REALLY fast and nipped it in the bud and he didn't really notice that a booster rider was making fun of his "baby seat." (i said that "babies are too little to ride in a child's seat like his." and acted all, um, like, duh.)

[lizajane]

Post over in the car seat forum, just in case the CPSTechs don't hang out here in the lounge.

I would try to work out what is bugging him about the Regent, there might be a fix, before going straight to a backless booster. Or one of the CPSTechs might know of a high back booster with more recline.

it isn't the seat, it is buckling the 5 point harness and getting hot. it i hard to explain my ADHD, OCD, anxiety ridden dyslexic kid... it is that he seriously freaks sometimes about not wanting to buckle it or that his back is stuck to the back of the seat and his shirt sticks to him with sweat. i don't mean has a tantrum, i mean he FREAKS OUT.

[lizajane]

One other question... what kind of car will he be in, what seating position and does it have side curtain airbags? (ok, that's three questions!)

1999 nissan quest minivan, middle row (captain's chair) on the passenger side. no side curtain airbags- too old. and no, i cannot afford a new car.

[caleymama]

DD1 is also in a Regent and although she's been able to buckle herself for ~ 2 years, she fusses and begs me to buckle her in more often than I care to think about. I'm still the one buckling DD2 in to her harnessed seat all the time. With a booster (we have a Parkway and a Compass B510) DD1 & any of her friends that ride need help to get situated and buckled, so time wise it's not any easier for me. For a while, I just made up my mind to stop arguing with DD1 about how she could and should buckle herself in and just do it - fast forward a few months and lo and behold she now is doing it on her own again most of the time.

I'd really hesitate to go to a backless full time. I agree with the suggestion to have him try out some different boosters, if you think he'd be up for that. There's a world of difference just between the two we have in terms of confinement & fit.

Good luck.

ETA: I didn't realize you meant that he didn't want it buckled b/c of discomfort, not that he wouldn't do it. KWIM? Have you tried a Compass B510?

[lizajane]

ETA: I didn't realize you meant that he didn't want it buckled b/c of discomfort, not that he wouldn't do it. KWIM? Have you tried a Compass B510?

oh, my mistake. it IS that he doesn't want to buckle it himself AND separately, that his back sticks to it. sorry, i wasn't clear.

dylan is 4 and can buckle the chest piece, but i am usually chasing him and lifting him into the car then buckling him. so arguing with schuyler who is two weeks shy of 6 is just the last thing on my list i want to do.

[egoldber]

Even though Sarah *can* do the buckles in the Regent, she generally prefers not to or it's just faster for me to do it for her. If she's wearing a heavy jacket, then it's almost impossible for her to do it herself.

[caleymama]

oh, my mistake. it IS that he doesn't want to buckle it himself AND separately, that his back sticks to it. sorry, i wasn't clear.

dylan is 4 and can buckle the chest piece, but i am usually chasing him and lifting him into the car then buckling him. so arguing with schuyler who is two weeks shy of 6 is just the last thing on my list i want to do.

No need to apologize! I totally get you. I fell like I'm playing whack-a-mole with my two sometimes trying to get them into their seats so I an buckle them. I think I've got one in and am on to the other and *poof* the first one is gone. I try to get them to at least get their arms in themselves on the days they are being ornery about it. More often than not lately! Then I do up DD2 - she does her chest clip too. Around to DD1 and get her buckled. Once I decided I just wasn't going to fight about it (which was hard because I know she CAN do it), it made it much easier.

[o_mom]

the way the back is so straight. his regent has a bit of recline.

Can the captain's chair be reclined? You shouldn't put it way back, but a click or two of recline is fine. Would that help with the too upright problem?

What highback booster is he in now?

The Graco Air Booster has a mesh seat that is ergonomically designed. The amount of airflow may be enough to keep him cooler in general. It is also very open at the head and not confining.

The Compass B510/540 are also pretty wide open.

The TurboBooster is pretty wide, but not as tall as those two. It does come in a zillion fabrics, which might help you find something cooler.

Evenflo Big Kid Confidence is also a wide open one that may give him some room to move, but it is hard to find IRL and I think it may be discontinued, though available online.

ETA: I guess my answer to the original question would be that I would only consider it IF I had exhausted all other possible way to make a highback booster tolerable for him. I think it is important enough to try at least a few options before giving up, but I don't know that I would say you need to buy a new car just for that either (I mainly asked that to maybe help you feel better if he was in a center seat of a car with airbags :().

[kransden]

That's a risk you have to decide for yourself. I'ld ask him to check out some of the high backed boosters though. My dd loves her Compass. When we are on vacation, we only bring a backless booster with us. In AZ, after age 5, kids don't even need a car seat.

[bubbaray]

I wouldn't risk a booster in your current vehicle at his age. JMHO.

[Rainbows&Roses]

maybe this would work for the heat issue?

http://www.babydagny.com/product.aspx?pId=176

[gatorsmom]

i am trying SO hard to talk myself into leaving him in the regent for 4 more inches. but golly, it is soooooo much easier to get going in the morning when he is riding in the booster. he is happy and doesn't BEG me to buckle his seat belt FOR him when i am trying to load his brother and get all their stuff to the car.



Liza, I don't know if this makes a difference at all, but every morning when you are thinking it'd be easier with that booster....think of me. I have 4 to strap in. Gator is still in his Marathon because he's pretty short for 5.5yo. He can buckle it but i have to tighten the strap. I have to buckle Cha cha and right now I buckle the twins in their Safeseats in the house and carry their carriers to the car, but this summer I"ll be making 2 trips to bring them out and buckle them in their Marathons. Next winter I'll be making 2 trips to bring them out WITH ALL THEIR SNOW GEAR. good times ahead...

Hang in there! 4 inches will fly by-especially if Schuyler grows quickly like you said. You can do it.

[dogmom]

I'd like to inject I little reality into this conversation.

He is old enough and big enough to ride in a booster seat. If you read the literature and most of the education campaigns the struggle with most parents is to ensure that they actually use a booster seat at all with a bigger kid. Yes, a five point is safer. I'm not an expert, but I'll go with the high back in safer. However, over the years on these boards I have noticed that we get a little out of touch with the mainstream on things. We would all be safter, including adults, if we had 5-point restraints and all the passengers were in rear-facing seats. There are no studies that I can find that indicate decreased mortality or morbitiy for children that use 5-point vs booster. The videos and crash tests are compelling, but they do not necessarily replicate real life crash situations. There are many other influences to injuries, speed being a major one. The health care & safety community are still working out the numbers on just plain booster seats.

I'm not saying don't get a Regent, I got two in my back seat. I'm just pointing out a Mom than buys two cheaper booster seat, but drives half the distance/time with the kids in the car vs the Mom that has Regents but the kids spend more time in the car are probably just as safe if not safer. So "risk" is a multi-factoral thing.

[Joolsplus2]

The 53" guideline is just a guideline... you have till his shoulders are just above the top slots. My leggy 54.5 inch dd is 9.5 and still has a bit of growing room in the Regent....a longer torsoed child may creep above the top slots as short as 51"...I'm just saying, 53" isn't set in stone, but the 80 pound weight limit IS.

Ok so now that that's cleared up...

Yes, a booster is safe. Even a backless isn't ideal, but isn't terrible, statistically.

But ask yourself: Will he sit properly in it? Lapbelt on the lap, shoulderbelt on the shoulder, not leaning out or falling asleep and falling sideways? It's just not going to be safe if he starts having a thrashing tantrum, for instance (not sure what 'freak out' means for you guys, I'm just imagining thrashing and unbuckling).
What highback booster do you have that he feels is too confining? There are more wide open ones like the Evenflos or Compasses that he might like just fine. Maybe if he helps choose a booster he'd like it? Some of the Turbos are really soft and comfy, maybe that's something he'd like, even though it's a bit more confining.

(((HUGS))) I can't imagine how challenging this must be for you (my boy's only got anxiety and dyslexia and a deep fear of movie theaters...it's a lot easier to avoid his triggers...the car's never been one of them, knock on wood), but I'd hate to see your guy be a lot less safe in the car over it, kwim?

[KrisM]

I'd like to inject I little reality into this conversation.

He is old enough and big enough to ride in a booster seat. If you read the literature and most of the education campaigns the struggle with most parents is to ensure that they actually use a booster seat at all with a bigger kid. Yes, a five point is safer. I'm not an expert, but I'll go with the high back in safer. However, over the years on these boards I have noticed that we get a little out of touch with the mainstream on things. We would all be safter, including adults, if we had 5-point restraints and all the passengers were in rear-facing seats. There are no studies that I can find that indicate decreased mortality or morbitiy for children that use 5-point vs booster. The videos and crash tests are compelling, but they do not necessarily replicate real life crash situations. There are many other influences to injuries, speed being a major one. The health care & safety community are still working out the numbers on just plain booster seats.

I'm not saying don't get a Regent, I got two in my back seat. I'm just pointing out a Mom than buys two cheaper booster seat, but drives half the distance/time with the kids in the car vs the Mom that has Regents but the kids spend more time in the car are probably just as safe if not safer. So "risk" is a multi-factoral thing.


He is already in a Regent. She's asking about going to a no-back booster, which is less safe than a high-back. We're just trying to help her keep them as safe as possible. Just because mainstream doesn't realize that they are putting their kids at more risk by putting them in no-back boosters at at 6, doesn't mean everyone should.

[Moneypenny]

maybe this would work for the heat issue?

http://www.babydagny.com/product.aspx?pId=176

I was going to suggest this, or even a cold pack with a towel over it so it doesn't get too cold against him.

[n2ou]

When my son was around 18 months old, I turned him forward-facing in his Britax Roundabout.

I knew that rf was safer, but he just had surgery on both eyes and was not supposed to rub or scratch his eyes.

I had no way of controlling it rear-facing, so I turned him around.

Yes, in an accident, he would have had a greater chance of survival being rf. Being the optimist I am, I chose the healing of the eyes over the rear-facing.

Still struggled with it - obviously - since I had to write it down.

Hth,

Simone

[dogmom]

He is already in a Regent. She's asking about going to a no-back booster, which is less safe than a high-back. We're just trying to help her keep them as safe as possible. Just because mainstream doesn't realize that they are putting their kids at more risk by putting them in no-back boosters at at 6, doesn't mean everyone should.

I understand that. I understand he is a Regent, and he doesn't like it. What I was saying is the statistics are not as compelling as you may think. The mainstream isn't putting their kids at much larger risk than you may think. I don't want some mother to feel guilty or never admit that the backless or booster is what they use for their own reasons. There are studies that compare backless to no back booster seats that show an increased risk of injury, but the numbers were still low for BOTH. And they were for all injuries, minor and serious. Some of that may very well be attributed to the non-use of the belt positioner in the no-back. (Jools correct me if I am wrong.) I still haven't found a real world study about 5 points compared to regular boosters.

I just don't want her, or anyone else, to feel guilty if she decides the best thing is a regular booster seat for her kid. There are tons of decisions people make about their kids that shift a risk, or MIGHT shift a risk, slightly in one direction or other.

[egoldber]

I just don't want her, or anyone else, to feel guilty if she decides the best thing is a regular booster seat for her kid.

No one can make anyone else feel guilty. But you are right, we all make risk assessments and decide from there. But her post said "talk me off the ledge" which IMO meant she wanted to hear reasons NOT to switch to a booster. So we gave her reasons. I would not tell someone to go out and buy a 5 almost 6 year old a Regent. But since they already have one and the issue seems to be frustration with him not wanting to buckle it himself, then I do not *personally* think that is a big enough to switch from a 5 point to a LBB. I know that at age 5 my mostly very compliant in the car kid did not always sit straight and tall and never bent over, etc.

[bubbaray]

No one can make anyone else feel guilty. But you are right, we all make risk assessments and decide from there. But her post said "talk me off the ledge" which IMO meant she wanted to hear reasons NOT to switch to a booster. So we gave her reasons. I would not tell someone to go out and buy a 5 almost 6 year old a Regent. But since they already have one and the issue seems to be frustration with him not wanting to buckle it himself, then I do not *personally* think that is a big enough to switch from a 5 point to a LBB. I know that at age 5 my mostly very compliant in the car kid did not always sit straight and tall and never bent over, etc.

:yeahthat:

If Liza didn't already have a Regent, I might have actually suggested it in *her* particular situation. Her vehicle d/n have side airbags of any sort and it d/n sound like her DS is ready for a booster. He's too young for a LBB IMO and he's non-compliant in a HBB.

I don't think anyone was trying to make Liza feel guilty at all. The stats are what they are. Every step down in restraints is a step down in safety.

[Sillygirl]

I think dogmom's just talking her down from a different ledge. Her poor son really has a hard time with the current set-up, and in his case a backless booster might be the best overall option. I generally stay out of the carseat topics on this board - I find them kind of ridiculously alarmist, actually.

[lizajane]

no one has offended me on this thread or made me feel guilty.

i know the regent is the best place for him to be and i am being a whiner.

i did want to be convinced to do what i already know is best.

but i was also curious to see if anyone in my sort of situation just went for it and never looked back. as in, no guilt- just happy to be less frustrated.

my kids have been in two fender benders and one "intense fender bender." technically, it was a wreck. but i was rear ended and thrown into the car ahead of me. while it did total my car, it was a VERY old car worth very little, so it was the percentage issue that made it "totaled" not actually the true extent of the damage. it wasn't like we whirled around or flipped over or exploded airbags.

they were both in marathons, dylan was about 14 months and he was rear facing. he didn't even wake up. schuyler was 3 and was checked by a chiro and had no issues. i had whip lash. (i replaced the seats)

schuyler has a very long torso and short legs. i don't think he is near having his shoulders over the top straps. but i will look again. i do check periodically. we do know how to use the boosters, either style, correctly. my friends call me the carseat police. i fix OTHER people's seats and boosters. i don't care what they think. and yes, i have a best friend with 5 year old in a backless booster and her 3 year old (maybe just over 30lbs) in a high back booster. yes, it bums me out because i think they could be safer.

here is our booster: (well, the updated version... ours is about 3 years old)
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=208218024&listingid=23990417&dcaid=17902

it is a 5pt seat up to 65lbs and then converts to a booster. i took the belts out because schuyler was a bit too tall for it and i use it for other kids who are too big for the straps (playdates.) while dylan rides in it now and then, i don't like for him to because he is short and i don't think the seatbelt fits right on him. he is super comfy in his marathon and gets mad when my Godson rides in it and he can't because it is HIS seat. (Godson is 2.5 and only fits in dylan's seat, both legally and size-wise. and he rides with us often)

[Joolsplus2]

Funny that's the seat you have and don't think it fits your little guy too well, carseatblog just did a review on it today as a booster and drew the same conclusion http://carseatblog.com/?p=1606

It IS one of the least confining seats, but I think maybe not very well padded compared to others? I haven't seen a lot of them IRL to be sure about that.

[o_mom]

Funny that's the seat you have and don't think it fits your little guy too well, carseatblog just did a review on it today as a booster and drew the same conclusion http://carseatblog.com/?p=1606

It IS one of the least confining seats, but I think maybe not very well padded compared to others? I haven't seen a lot of them IRL to be sure about that.


Jools - is the Apex back fixed WRT the seat, like a Cargo would be, or does it recline slightly like a Turbo or PW would to conform to the seat?

If it is fixed, a booster that can recline slightly might help him with it being too upright.

[bubbaray]

If the HB Turbo will work (very popular where we live), can you put your DS#1 in the middle in your vehicle?? Possibly have an adult ride back there for a few rides to make sure he's sitting nicely/properly in the booster?

[niccig]

I generally stay out of the carseat topics on this board - I find them kind of ridiculously alarmist, actually.

I don't think I'm being alarmist. I think I'm keeping DS as safe as he can be. The number one cause of death and injury for kids is car accidents. It's not bunk beds, it's not eating non-organic food, it's not drinking milk from a bottle with BPA in it, it's not watching too much TV. I'm careful about other things, but nothing else has the same potential to kill or injury my child as a car accident does.

I agree that there are a number of risk factors with cars, and we can control some of them. We control the car that we drive, the speed, do we drive safely, and we can control how passengers ride - seat belts or not, car seats/boosters or not.

But what we can't control are other drivers. I don't know when a Mercedes SUV is going to run a red light and smash into my car without braking, as happened to a friend. My Dad had a saying when he taught me to drive. "Always give way to your right and watch the dopey B@st@rd to your left". Because I don't know what that other person will do, I'll control what I can to make us as safe as possible in case that dopey person does run a red light. And that means having DS restrained appropriately for his age/physical development.

A high back booster is appropriate for a child of Schuyler's age and weight, if he can use it properly. If he can sit and not play with the belt or move out of position then fine, but if he can't, then he's not ready for it. Maybe in 6 months he will be ready, maybe he needs to have some booster lessons to help him sit still. But if he's developmentally not ready, he's not ready. I'd prefer to have a fight every morning to get him into the seat, than have to keep telling him to sit still, don't play with the seatbelt etc and have him improperly restrained.

Liza, have you tried things like letting him have a hand held game in the car, or eating snacks, something to distract him? I know it's not the same but for a year DS refused to get in the car seat, several times I had to MAKE him sit down. I would have a snack that he didn't get very often and he only got it once he was buckled in. It helped until he outgrew the behaviour, but it was a long year. If he wants to buckle himself in, can he put his arms through the straps and do the chest clip first and then you buckle the bottom part. My DS insists on doing as much as he can himself and he's 4 yo. Or if he won't buckle, even though you know he can do it, you do it. I ask DS now, do you want to buckle or do you want me to do it. As sometimes he doesn't want to do it and other times he does - I'm like, make up your mind!

Good luck, I hope you work something out.

[niccig]

maybe this would work for the heat issue?

http://www.babydagny.com/product.aspx?pId=176

Would one of those little plastic portable fans work?

[LexyLou]

Liza,

I'm sure you don't want to buy another seat but my 3.5 year old is in the Graco Nautlius. We obviously still use it as a 5 pt harness but it does (as I'm sure you know) become a high back booster.

If your son's issue is that his current booster is too straight up, he'd probably like the Nautilus. It has a slight recline and actually has a recline adjustment to make it adjust even more.

It could be an option since you can convert it to the regular booster and use it for years to come.

[bubbaray]

I think dogmom's just talking her down from a different ledge. Her poor son really has a hard time with the current set-up, and in his case a backless booster might be the best overall option. I generally stay out of the carseat topics on this board - I find them kind of ridiculously alarmist, actually.


I'm not sure I follow. The stats are the stats. A 5-pt harness is statistically safER than a booster of any sort. A HBB is safER than a LBB. Those stats are what they are. You can make decisions based on other factors, that's is your right as a parent. But, I don't think any one here is "alarmist" to say that children are safer in a 5-pt harnessed seat, are safer in a HBB over a LBB, etc..

As I understand Liza's original post, her DS#1's problem is with her current HBB, as its too upright. The posters here have given her some other options. I also understood Liza's issue with the Regent was HER issue, not her DS#1's. It sounds like he is content in the Regent.

I stand by my original post. Given Liza's current vehicle (older, no side airbags of any sort), her DS is safER in the Regent and definitely safER in the Regent compared to a LBB. If she can install a HBB in the center AND her DS is booster-compliant (which is not clear to me based on her posts in this thread -- its certainly possible he is, but then again, he might not be), there are other HBBs that might work well for her DS.

I really don't think anyone on this thread is being ridiculously alarmist. People are trying to help.

[AnnieW625]

You know I personally think that if he gets into your DH's car with a backless booster and he is more comfortable then you might want to try it out in your car and see how he does. I think that age plays a big role in this, and yes his friends might say something if they see him in a carseat and that probably bothers him and he just doesn't want to say anything. This is a very to each their own dilemma, but you know your child better than anyone else so if you feel he his safe then it's okay. If not then just continue to use the Regent until he is grown out of it.

[gatorsmom]

I generally stay out of the carseat topics on this board - I find them kind of ridiculously alarmist, actually.

I really think it's all about how much risk each of us are willing to live with. I think we all have our sticking points- some of us worry about what unknown effects plastics (and other chemicals) are having on our bodies, some worry about the hazards of vaccines, some worry about the risks associated with c/sections over vaginals births, some worry about carseat safety. They all carry risks. But according to the CDC, motorvehicle accidents were the number one cause of death for children under the age of 24. So, maybe until that number goes down, this is a good issue to get passionate about.

And, just speaking for myself, knowing that there is a very good chance I'll be in a accident one day, and perhaps while transporting my children, I want to do everything within my power to make my children safe. I can't imagine how I'd feel if the unthinkable happened and I didn't do what I absolutely could to prevent it.

Besides, Liza's title was "talk me off the careseat to booster ledge...," so I assume she was asking for some persuasion. At least, that's why I posted what I did.

[Joolsplus2]

Jools - is the Apex back fixed WRT the seat, like a Cargo would be, or does it recline slightly like a Turbo or PW would to conform to the seat?

If it is fixed, a booster that can recline slightly might help him with it being too upright.

Ah, good point. Yeah, it's pretty upright. Something with a detachable/flexible back might well be better (Sunshine Kids Monterey, Graco Turbo, even my not-favorite-due-to-flimsy-headwings choice the Evenflo Big Kid might be open enough and reclined enough to be comfier...Really, I'd like to see him in any kind of highback that he'll tolerate, and all those convert to backless for later down the road, too). Then you can recline the vehicle seatback a notch or two and the booster will recline with it.

[lizajane]

If the HB Turbo will work (very popular where we live), can you put your DS#1 in the middle in your vehicle?? Possibly have an adult ride back there for a few rides to make sure he's sitting nicely/properly in the booster?

there is no middle. there are two captain's chairs. the third row has a middle, but 1) third row is not as safe as 2nd row (correct me if i am wrong) and 2) i often have 4 kids in the car, so no one would fit in the middle with another kid on the side. i have to put one seat/booster on each side of the 3rd row bench seat. i also have a pretty old car, so getting to the 3rd row isn't easy. it is a very tight space to get back there, even for a skinny 6 year old, and may cause even more issues. very different from the new quest vans, which have a lot more space in the back.

[bubbaray]

Can you move one of the Captain's chairs towards the center? Not necessarily AT center, but away from the door? If so, that is about as good as it will get, I suppose, in terms of keeping him away from the sides of the vehicle in an impact situation.

I still give a big thumbs down to the LBB idea. I think there are other HBBs you should try if you really don't want to keep him in the Regent.

GL!

[dogmom]

I'm not sure I follow. The stats are the stats. A 5-pt harness is statistically safER than a booster of any sort. A HBB is safER than a LBB. Those stats are what they are. You can make decisions based on other factors, that's is your right as a parent. But, I don't think any one here is "alarmist" to say that children are safer in a 5-pt harnessed seat, are safer in a HBB over a LBB, etc..



Yes, I believe my children are safer in a 5 point, but I'm not sure what statistics you are talking about. I have found no retrospective study of child injuries in 5 point boosters vs traditional boosters. I agree it makes sense. I agree the crash test videos are scary. But the closest I can come is a retrospective study of backless vs. high backed. If Jools or someone else has a reference I would love to have it, really. It may be that a retrospective study is hard to do because the car seats make up a small amount of the of total seats. Maybe I'm biased because working in health care I have learned not to become married to a concept without a good study, and still be willing to reconsider later in light of other studies.

Most of the studies are old (>10 year data) and compare no booster/seat belt use to booster seat use, which is what created the current guidelines.

[Joolsplus2]

Beyond some anecdotes where kids have died in boosters, and some studies that find boosters still cause abdominal injuries in some kids (probably the 'combo' boosters with horrible belt geometry that most kids sit in are the culprit there), we don't really have a study to definitively prove that harnessing is X% safer than boostering.... yet. I'm banking on it being safer, myself (I keep mine mostly harnessed to age 7 or 8), but for a kid over about age 5 who can sit properly in a booster, a booster is a very safe choice.

[lizajane]

Can you move one of the Captain's chairs towards the center? Not necessarily AT center, but away from the door? If so, that is about as good as it will get, I suppose, in terms of keeping him away from the sides of the vehicle in an impact situation.

I still give a big thumbs down to the LBB idea. I think there are other HBBs you should try if you really don't want to keep him in the Regent.

GL!

girl, you are givin' my 1999 van WAY too much credit! LOL! this thing is a dinosaur! it is even green!!! no, you can't move the captain's chairs to the middle. you can take them out of the car. but you can't do more than move them forward and back and little. and i can't move the bench seat forward because then i would only have room for 2 seats, and still wouldn't be able to put one in the middle.

seriously, this is like when the people in the car pool line expect me to be able to close the sliding door with the touch of a button... um, no, 10 year old vans don't do that. you have to actually shut it for me or i will just sit there all day...

(i am laughing at myself here, i am not actually offended!) ;)