Big Nasty Fight with DH...

[ha98ed14]

over something so seemingly small and petty. Last night, he was going to give DD her crayons to color with at her little table. I asked if before they got out the crayons (which involves its own level of clean up because she draws all over everything BUT the paper), if he would put her blocks away, which were all over the table. I knew DD would draw all over them, which I guess is not a huge deal, but I'd rather try to avoid it. So that was my request: Put the blocks away before you give her the crayons. And he would not do it.

Ok, so fine, I got up and did it because I wanted it done. Then I go in the kitchen and see the carnage left over from dinner (He cooks. I do not cook. I know, I should be more grateful, right?) But he does not know how to "clean as you go." He leaves all the dirty pans on the stove, all the mixing bowls etc in the sink. And I swoop in and clean it up like I do most nights. Well, last night, I lost it on him. He wants big points for holding a job and coming home at night and helping with DD. And cooking. Yes. You do these things. But I do things too. Including clean up after him all. the. time. I am so sick of cleaning up after an adult. WHY is putting your clothes in the freaking hamper a challenge for someone with a college and grad school education?!?!?!

You effing P me Off, not so Dear DH.

[maestramommy]

:hug::hug: I think you are both just getting overwhelmed with the stress in your situation. Hope you have time and space to think before talking it out.

[hbridge]

Ok, so fine, I got up and did it because I wanted it done. Then I go in the kitchen and see the carnage left over from dinner (He cooks. I do not cook. I know, I should be more grateful, right?) But he does not know how to "clean as you go." He leaves all the dirty pans on the stove, all the mixing bowls etc in the sink. And I swoop in and clean it up like I do most nights. Well, last night, I lost it on him. He wants big points for holding a job and coming home at night and helping with DD. And cooking. Yes. You do these things. But I do things too. Including clean up after him all. the. time. I am so sick of cleaning up after an adult. WHY is putting your clothes in the freaking hamper a challenge for someone with a college and grad school education?!?!?!

You effing P me Off, not so Dear DH.

Oh I have one of those husbands too. He doesn't cook during the week, but on weekends the kitchen is A MESS after he makes dinner! Don't get me started on the turning off lights, picking up, laundry issues, ect. He often forgets that he's sharing space with others! Take a deep breath and try to remember what's important in life! Somedays that's impossible, but that's what I always try to do! Big HUG and know you are not alone.

[elektra]

My DH does not respond well to me asking him to do anything, especially if it's something that needs to be done right away, like those blocks. It's like, "just trust me!" right?
Please just pick up the freaking blocks so she doesn't color all over them and leave me to be the one to clean it up later, without me having to explain all this to you!

[g-mama]

At first I was thinking that I'm jealous that he cooks (mine NEVER does) and that it sounds like a fair arrangement that you clean up afterwards. BUT, it's not okay to cook like you're a tornado in the kitchen with no regard for the "cleaner upper!" That's taking advantage. My dh sometimes does the dishes after dinner but at that point, it is really just putting the plates and silverware we ate with into the dishwasher. I do clean up as I go because I don't want to face a mountain of work when I'm done eating and want to relax a bit. But in his situation, WHO CARES?, right? Wrong. That would burn me up, too.

[lizajane]

for me, it is when he says he doesn't want to find breakfast dishes still on the table when he comes home at night BUT HE LEAVES HIS OWN breakfast dishes ON THE COUNTER.

um, put your OWN dishes away and i will see if i can clean up after the kids while getting them dressed, packing their lunches, getting them into the car and to school on time.

[MontrealMum]

I think the situation was probably due to all the stress you two are under, I mean, aren't they usually? That's just what happens around here.

But I will say, I feel for you. I totally feel like I have two kids here, not one. And the messier one is nearly 40!!! AND he doesn't listen as well as the toddler either. So frustrating sometimes. :hug: I have had days where I want to gather all of DH's stuff up (his, and what he's left out) and just fling it at him while he watches TV. But, I know I would just be the one left picking it up again anyways so I don't. Sometimes they just don't get it.

It's also such a pain that you feel you have to justify what you're asking him to do ie: don't leave the blocks out to be colored on thus creating more work, as if your word and judgment aren't good enough. I am right there with you!

[niccig]

I've had those fights. Mine is because I'm picking up after DS constantly, and I just tired of that. DH is an adult and surely can put his half-empty soda cans in the sink then trash. It's always the little thing that finally pushes me over the edge.

Take some time to calm down, and talk things over when you can, so DH can understand that making more mess creates MORE work for you.

I'll also say that we have the rule of "if you cook, you don't clean up" but as the cook I always clean as I go, so it's rare that DH has a big mess. I try to have the dishwasher empty, so I can put dirty things straight in there...DH gets annoyed when I haven't done this, and I am like...fine then, you cook every single night....it's the same reaction if he doesn't like what I made...fine then, you do it. I do get tired of cooking and cleaning, but mostly, the kitchen isn't too bad when he cleans up, so he needs to cut me some slack on the days when it is bad....

ETA. I think though that you may feel like me. A day of constant cleaning and the like...I feel like I'm the house B$tch and it really peeves me off. Don't even get me started on being Poop Girl. DS wants ME to wipe after his gone potty and I'm always the one cleaning up the dog's accidents or pooper scooper the yard....

[AngelaS]

He works full time, cooks dinner and plays with your dd after a long day in the office? Perhaps this is a good time to look at the good things he does for you instead of just the bad.

[ha98ed14]

Thanks guys. I know it is really the stress of life that made me so short tempered with him. But I do really wonder, from an ontological perepctive, how is it that men can completely not care about the cleanliness or cluttered state of their living environment and women do? I mean, we are both human, right? I really think flith and squalor would reign supreme but for women in the world (and a few good gay male hair dressers, interior designers, and personal shoppers a Nordies... not that I have encountered any since having DD and no job... Boo hooo At least I am laughing now. Thanks ladies. As always, you keep me sane...)

[egoldber]

BUT, it's not okay to cook like you're a tornado in the kitchen with no regard for the "cleaner upper!"

:yeahthat:

When I was working full time, DH and I alternated nights cooking dinner. At first we did "I cook, you clean", but at my insistence we switched to "whoever cooks, cleans up". I was soooooo fed up that DH somehow managed to use EVERY pot and bowl to make even the simplest of dishes AND wreck the whole kitchen.

Now I do almost all the cooking, but DH does some (he makes most of our bread these days). He does clean up after himself, but I have to walk away until it's over. It makes my head want to explode looking at what he does to the kitchen to make one loaf of bread (OK, 2 loaves...it's a double recipe ;) ).

[niccig]

Thanks guys. I know it is really the stress of life that made me so short tempered with him. But I do really wonder, from an ontological perepctive, how is it that men can completely not care about the cleanliness or cluttered state of their living environment and women do? I mean, we are both human, right? I really think flith and squalor would reign supreme but for women in the world (and a few good gay male hair dressers, interior designers, and personal shoppers a Nordies... not that I have encountered any since having DD and no job... Boo hooo At least I am laughing now. Thanks ladies. As always, you keep me sane...)

I think it's something between the eyes and the brain...maybe we have an extra "cleaning" nerve. But DH will STEP over all the toys on the floor. He will help clean up once DS is in bed, but the blocks can be out ALL day and he'll just move around/over them....

[ha98ed14]

He works full time, cooks dinner and plays with your dd after a long day in the office? Perhaps this is a good time to look at the good things he does for you instead of just the bad.

Yes. He does. He works. Cooks dinner. And plays with DD.

And I am going to school for a degree in math education, taking care of DD, tutoring high school students 2 days a week, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, balancing the checkbook, keeping track of the money and keeping us in budget, keeping track of the cars and taking them in for oil changes and repairs, taking DD to the doctor, finding and interviewing DCPs, and doing any and all research about any major decisions we make (health ins, life ins, mortgage, investments).

Hands down, I have more going through my head about our family life and responsibilities at any moment than my DH does.

[AngelaS]

Hands down, I have more going through my head about our family life and responsibilities at any moment than my DH does.

I don't know any woman for whom this isn't true. I also know very few men who see the mess around them and clean up. Mine's a bit of a pig and he knows it.

You said yourself it was something small and petty. After 15 years of marriage, I'm learning to save my PMS moments for the really big things. I'm learning that there really aren't very many big things worth going postal over.

[ha98ed14]

I don't know any woman for whom this isn't true. I also know very few men who see the mess around them and clean up. Mine's a bit of a pig and he knows it.

You said yourself it was something small and petty. After 15 years of marriage, I'm learning to save my PMS moments for the really big things. I'm learning that there really aren't very many big things worth going postal over.

That may be true. I admit I over-reacted. But, if after 15 years of marriage and 3 kids, your DH cannot look around and see a mess and help clean up, well... plainly put, that is not someone I would care to be married to.

It is no great secret that you and I have very different ideas about what we want out of life for ourselves and our daughters. I guess I am just not willing to live with someone who, when I make a reasonable request for help, will look me in the face and say, "No." To me, that is worth going postal over. Without turning this into a debate over the Feminist v. Quiverfull movements, I am not sure what else I can say. I expect him to help. Even if he does not see the mess and it does not bother him, I expect him to help me maintain order, not make more work for me. Life together ought to be better than life alone. When it isn't, I think it is worth a fight.

[AngelaS]

That may be true. I admit I over-reacted. But, if after 15 years of marriage and 3 kids, your DH cannot look around and see a mess and help clean up, well... plainly put, that is not someone I would care to be married to.

It is no great secret that you and I have very different ideas about what we want out of life for ourselves and our daughters. I guess I am just not willing to live with someone who, when I make a reasonable request for help, will look me in the face and say, "No." To me, that is worth going postal over. Without turning this into a debate over the Feminist v. Quiverfull movements, I am not sure what else I can say. I expect him to help. Even if he does not see the mess and it does not bother him, I expect him to help me maintain order, not make more work for me. Life together ought to be better than life alone. When it isn't, I think it is worth a fight.


Wow, that's quite an attack. Just because I said mine was a 'bit of a pig' doesn't mean he doesn't know how to clean up after himself or fail to. I am hardly June Cleaver who does everything for him. Considering you know absolutely nothing about my dh other than the one comment I made in this thread, your insult of him is rather harsh. You said your dh is the one who looked you in the face and told you 'no', it seems your frustration would be better directed at a conversation with him rather than insulting my husband that you don't even know.

Yes, we do have different ideas of what we want for our daughters. I think deep down we want the same thing--them to be happy, loving people. I have no intention of turning this into a feminist vs. quiverfull debate--that's rather hard to do when I'm on neither side.

I agree that men should help around the house instead of making a mess. There's nothing wrong with that. I've found it's far more productive to offer suggestions or ask for help rather than brow beat or micromanage him.

[sste]

If I am in a mood (which is alot these days), I put stuff that DH leaves lying around where it will irritate him most - - smaller stuff I gather and put on his pillow so he has to clean it up before bed. Clothes I leave in the entrance to the bathroom since he gets up first he literally has to trip over them or clean them up. Sometimes I will stuff his dirty balls of clothes and junk into his drawers or put them on his desk.

[ha98ed14]

I fail to see how I am attacking you. I said *I* wouldn't want to be married to someone who can't help pick up. I did not say that *you* shouldn't be. You called your DH a pig, not me. So it is not me attacking your DH. I have no idea where you got that. All I am saying is I expect an equal partnership in the cleaning up tasks between me and my DH. What you do or do not do for your own DH is your business.

Personally, I would have loved it if you kept you suggestion for me to "see all the good things my DH does for me" out of my post in the BP. I was here to b!tch after all. I was looking for commiseration, not suggestions on how to be more grateful. So let's just both enjoy the BBB and give one another some space.

[ha98ed14]

If I am in a mood (which is alot these days), I put stuff that DH leaves lying around where it will irritate him most - - smaller stuff I gather and put on his pillow so he has to clean it up before bed. Clothes I leave in the entrance to the bathroom since he gets up first he literally has to trip over them or clean them up. Sometimes I will stuff his dirty balls of clothes and junk into his drawers or put them on his desk.

This made me Lol. I'm taking notes...

[kransden]

That may be true. I admit I over-reacted. But, if after 15 years of marriage and 3 kids, your DH cannot look around and see a mess and help clean up, well... plainly put, that is not someone I would care to be married to.


:ROTFLMAO: That's pretty funny to me. :)

My first thought was "Well obviously, you haven't been married 15 years yet." It has nothing to do with being a feminist or not. It has everything to do with overlooking your mate's fault so you don't strangle them before they wake up in the morning. ;)

16+ years of wedded bliss - with the same man!

[ha98ed14]

Congratulations :)

I doubt I will feel differently when I get to the 16 year mark. In part because I was single for a long time. I think people who are single well into their adult lives always have a harder time accommodating the other person when they finally do get married. Of course not everyone, but I have a lot of friends who married "late in life," i.e. after 30. And we all have the same complaints that our DHs live like bachelors.

[IDcam]

It has everything to do with overlooking your mate's fault so you don't strangle them before they wake up in the morning. ;)

:hysterical: Too funny!! :hysterical:

[lizajane]

Congratulations :)

I doubt I will feel differently when I get to the 16 year mark. In part because I was single for a long time. I think people who are single well into their adult lives always have a harder time accommodating the other person when they finally do get married. Of course not everyone, but I have a lot of friends who married "late in life," i.e. after 30. And we all have the same complaints that our DHs live like bachelors.

sounds like it is more about the MEN who married later in life. they got too used to being bachelors!

i got married 6 days before i turned 25 and i feel the same way you do about cleaning up his mess, etc. but my DH has been pretty incredibly awesome lately after a few small changes we worked on together. so i don't want to put him down right now! i am very appreciative!

i agree with you that "no" was not a "teamwork" response. i would have expected at least an, "i am particularly worn out today and to be honest, i am just not up for it. could i help you with something different later?" that is what my DH would say (most of the time! he has his moments!)

as DH's BFF said once, to paraphrase, you can't say that the at home parent does 75% and the WOHP does 25%... you have to both give 100%.

[ThreeofUs]

Thanks guys. I know it is really the stress of life that made me so short tempered with him. But I do really wonder, from an ontological perepctive, how is it that men can completely not care about the cleanliness or cluttered state of their living environment and women do? I mean, we are both human, right? I really think flith and squalor would reign supreme but for women in the world (and a few good gay male hair dressers, interior designers, and personal shoppers a Nordies... not that I have encountered any since having DD and no job... Boo hooo At least I am laughing now. Thanks ladies. As always, you keep me sane...)


You know, very early in our marriage, when DH came back from an extended field deployment - 2 months putting up a telescope - he told me he didn't care about keeping the house clean.

I thought to myself, "I am no-one's slave. I feel totally disrespected. But I'm not going to spit against the wind." So I stopped cleaning. Period. And he had to do it all (or most of it, anyway) or be faced with a sty of a house.

It took him 10 years to figure out why I stopped. When it finally came up in conversation, he was like, "Oooohhh, so that's what happened...."

But we didn't have kids at the time. ;)

[niccig]

I think it's also about expectations. You and your DH may have different expectations of what gets done, when and by whom. You have to find a way to meet in the middle.

A friend of mine does all the housework, her husband comes home from work, the house is spotless, dinner is ready and the kids are ready for bed. That works for her, she said she prefers to have things done her way. It doesn't work for another friend who also does everything, but I never want to talk about my DH the way that she complains about her DH.

My DH does help, and he's getting better at communicating. He knows he's going to be slammed at work for the next 6 weeks, and he told me that he'll be doing longer hours, and that he won't be able to do as much as he does. But the fact that he TOLD me now, means I can prepare for it. He's also told me that when he gets home from work, he can deal with DS, but then he needs some down time before we talk about things or he helps with things. But it's taken 6 years to get to this point...and we still argue about the blasted half empty soda cans left around the house...and I think we will when we're in our 70s.!

[fivi2]

My dh is a messy person. I am also (which is not good for our house!) but he is much worse. To the pp who said her dh ended up eventually cleaning the house - mine never would - seriously. The place he lived in before we moved in together was NASTY.

I do end up doing a lot more of the housework than he does. I am here more, and I get sick of it way before he does. What is helpful for us is for me to give him specific tasks - like a chore list you would give a child! Yes, I still get annoyed that I have to be the one to think of everything, and feel like the mother, but at least things get done most of the time.

That wouldn't help op's situation with the blocks, though. depending on my mood, I may have become unhinged also - you never know what the last straw will be! Another thought is to later approach him about cleaning the blocks since he didn't want to deal with it before they were colored on. Since he let the mess happen, let him be the one to fix it. I have found that dh will listen to me more often once I have shown him the "proof" that it wasn't just some crazy whim I had and that it was based in my actual experience with the kids.

As far as the dishes go... I wish we had that one worked out!

[gatorsmom]

You know, very early in our marriage, when DH came back from an extended field deployment - 2 months putting up a telescope - he told me he didn't care about keeping the house clean.

I thought to myself, "I am no-one's slave. I feel totally disrespected. But I'm not going to spit against the wind." So I stopped cleaning. Period. And he had to do it all (or most of it, anyway) or be faced with a sty of a house.

It took him 10 years to figure out why I stopped. When it finally came up in conversation, he was like, "Oooohhh, so that's what happened...."

But we didn't have kids at the time. ;)


Oh my gosh, that is too funny, Ivy. LOL

When DH and I got married (and before we had children), he worked full time in sales and I worked full time in an office. He was totally clueless. He expected me to turn into his mother. I'm not exagerating- he expected me to pick up the clothes he dropped on the floor, make dinner, do the dishes, and everything else. He just didn't get it. It took us going to therapy and the therapist said, "um, she works 40hours/week too. Why does she have to do everyhing else?" Then he finally got it. I'm still not sure why it took a therapist for him to see what i was saying every day!

[sarahsthreads]

That wouldn't help op's situation with the blocks, though. depending on my mood, I may have become unhinged also - you never know what the last straw will be! Another thought is to later approach him about cleaning the blocks since he didn't want to deal with it before they were colored on. Since he let the mess happen, let him be the one to fix it. I have found that dh will listen to me more often once I have shown him the "proof" that it wasn't just some crazy whim I had and that it was based in my actual experience with the kids.

Yeah, the problem with asking my DH to clean the blocks which got colored on after I warned him is that he would cheerfully agree to do it "later"...and then they would stay colored on until I finally got sick of it and did it myself. Then if I mentioned it he'd just say he forgot. He has a mind like a steel sieve, that one. ;)

My DH also does a lot (most) of the dinner cooking around here and is also a tornado in the kitchen. I can't fathom how he can take a spotless kitchen and turn it into such a huge mess in 30 minutes, but since he's doing the cooking I don't complain too much. I've learned to (sort of) live with the mess and just go through every couple of days and make it spotless again. (Only to have it reduced to tornado status again that night. What can I say? Chaos reins in our house.)

After 10 years of marriage I don't tend to lose it over stuff like that...but I do sometimes. My problem is more that I lose motivation over it. It's hard to keep cleaning and/or organizing the same spaces over and over and watching them instantly become cluttered and messy again over and over. I think it would help if either one of us was a neat person, but while both of us enjoy a super clean house neither one of us has the time or inclination to really keep it that way on a regular basis. We're both trying really hard, though, because we both recognize that we are a product of our less-than-neat parents' homes and we want our girls to stand a chance of learning how to keep their living spaces clean!

Sarah :)

[gatorsmom]

We're both trying really hard, though, because we both recognize that we are a product of our less-than-neat parents' homes and we want our girls to stand a chance of learning how to keep their living spaces clean!

Sarah :)

If it makes you feel any better, my mother was one of 10 children born to a very, very poor family. My mom grew up in a 2 room, tar-papered house. My mom said her mother tried hard to keep things clean and neat but in such a small space with that many people living in it, it was always dirty and sticky. My mom and her sisters say that the condition of the house they grew up in is what inspired them to keep their own houses so spotless. To this day, there is not one of my aunts' houses that I would not be willing to eat off the floor of. no joke, they are that clean.

So, maybe your best bet is to let the mess go. :)

[o_mom]

I have found that dh will listen to me more often once I have shown him the "proof" that it wasn't just some crazy whim I had and that it was based in my actual experience with the kids.


OMG! This is so my DH. It's as if he thinks every suggestion I make is some sort of ploy to fufill a neurotic wish of mine. Combine that with his baffling inability to predict very obvious consequenses and I want to pull my hair out sometimes. I can't tell you the number of times I say "I wouldn't do that - XYZ could happen" only to have him continue and have XYZ happen. I'm not talking about the little things, like having carrots for dinner instead of peas or even putting a pad under the baby before changing a poopy diaper. Things like throwing a ball off the deck for the dog to chase while a toddler is climbing up and down the deck stairs... how many throws before the dog knocks down the baby onto the concrete at the bottom? Three.

Luckily, he is a neat person and is perfectly capable of cooking, cleaning and laundry. I would be shocked to find clothes on the floor or dishes, cans, bottles somewhere in the house. In fact, his tolerance for dishes in the sink is lower than mine most times.

[egoldber]

My dh is a messy person. I am also (which is not good for our house!) but he is much worse. To the pp who said her dh ended up eventually cleaning the house - mine never would - seriously. The place he lived in before we moved in together was NASTY.

Yes, this, exactly. We got married fairly young (23/24) and this is just the way he is. He does not see messes or dirt. He would happily step over a pile of toys every day for WEEKS. And the hamper is just a suggestion. ;)

[kcandz]

OMG! This is so my DH. It's as if he thinks every suggestion I make is some sort of ploy to fufill a neurotic wish of mine. Combine that with his baffling inability to predict very obvious consequenses and I want to pull my hair out sometimes.

oh this is my DH! Well, so is OP situation and many described here.

Once, in frustration about this specific issue, I said to DH, "here you are a person who prides himself on doing well in chess. isn't chess a game of strategy - anticipation of consequences more than a few moves down the game? why are you incapable of applying that skill to daily life?"

[ha98ed14]

oh this is my DH! Well, so is OP situation and many described here.

Once, in frustration about this specific issue, I said to DH, "here you are a person who prides himself on doing well in chess. isn't chess a game of strategy - anticipation of consequences more than a few moves down the game? why are you incapable of applying that skill to daily life?"

Lol! Can I borrow this line? My DH is a huge chess player, too.