Is human decency and compassion gone?

[vahnessuh]

2 weeks ago I heard news from a friend that our other friend, Karen, was in the ICU. She had a car accident. What happened was that an 85 year old woman put her car in reverse by mistake and sent her car running into the wrong direction... directly into the path of Karen who was in the process of putting in her son into the car. Apparently, the old woman's car door was open while it happened... which hit my friend, pinning her to her car... then dragging her onto the side of the car... and then threw her 15 ft away. A short report of what happened actually was shown in KiroTV on March 12th for all of us Seattle people (An aerial footage of my friend being loaded into the ambulance was shown).

So, needless to say, my friend ended up having a broken pelvis (both sides), broken right shoulder and a lacerated bladder. When we visited her that weekend, she was in the ICU but was in good spirits. She had had a couple of surgeries already at that time... but despite all that, she was still smiling and thankful that her son was already in the car when it happened (otherwise, her son might have died if he was involved) and that her head wasn't involved. She was in so much pain yet she was able to see the positive side of things. She understood that what happened was an accident and that the old woman didn't mean for it to happen (which was very admirable of her, I must say).

Just this past weekend we visited her again. She's already out of the ICU and had had a few more surgeries. But this time, she was pissed. Apparently, the old woman nor any of her family haven't visited her or asked how she's doing. They haven't contacted her to check on her. She's not angry with them for what happened... she's angry with them for their apparent lack of concern over her.

My friend is in so much pain, have to deal with recovery and physical therapy, her husband is taking off of work to take care of the 3 year old son and 1 year old daughter.

The old woman's family somewhat knows of Karen... not well but they see each other often since they shop at the same grocery store where the accident happened. They even smile at each other whenever they see each other.

So how come none of them went or ask of her well-being?

I can understand that maybe their insurance told them not to... but come on! It is so clear who was at fault! Doesn't your conscience and common courtesy tell you to show concern? Is humanity this crappy these days?! If I was in the position of the old woman, I would be there at the hospital taking care of Karen.... bringing her food, keeping her company, assisting her. I understand that not everyone would have the same reaction as Karen... that some would be angry and such... but it will not stop me from apologizing and show some concern. The family of the accident victim might throw me out of the room, but it shouldn't stop me from apologizing.

Karen's husband is now talking to lawyers on suing them... they weren't even thinking about that when she was in the ICU... all they expected was for the old lady's insurance to cover the hospital bills and that's it (remember that they didn't blame the old lady)... but now that they weren't shown any concern, they're going to sue for everything that they can sue for (pain and suffering, cost of hospital stay, cost of therapy... and I hope they can very well sue for the husband's loss of wages, punitive damages and childcare!). And I hope the old lady's driver's license is suspended and taken away!

[niccig]

I'm so sorry for your friend. And I know she's thinking how lucky she was that she got her son into the car...I hope she recovers as quickly as she can..

Yes, you would think the family would say something. But I bet you're right and the insurance company has told them not to do so.

As for the suing, I think they'll be suing the car insurance company, not the old lady herself. A friend got hit by someone running a red light, and it was the car insurance company that he had to sue to get more compensation. Years later he still has medical issues from the accident, and the injuries meant that he can no longer do his job. He's gone back to school to retrain. I'm not one for suing, but your friend needs to think about the long-term effects of her injuries and make sure they have enough compensation to pay for medical bills.

Again, I'm really sorry for your friend.

[maestramommy]

I'm very sorry about your friend. Good thing her injuries weren't life threatening.

You're probably right about the insurance angle. It could really suck, esp. if they want to get in touch with your friend, and aren't allowed to. OTOH, I really think this woman probably shouldn't be driving anymore. It sounds like not only did she put her car into the wrong gear, she was driving way too fast, and not watching, just on autopilot.

[jayali]

DH family had a similar issue and I was horrified at the way the handled it. DH has an aunt that is 80 and should have stopped driving year ago, due to sight issues. Two years ago she hit an elderly crossing guard in front of a school. He was hurt pretty badly and DH aunt was very shaken up. We were away when it happened, but returned a day later. When we went to see Auntie and asked how the victim was the looks in the room could have killed me. I was horrified to hear that no one had been in touch with his family. The only updates they had were from the police. This man lives in her town and she knows his family by sight and no one reached out to them - are you kidding me? DH Aunt and cousins both said that they didn't want to have any contact for fear of admitting wrong doing and insurance reasons. Hello - you hit him, you were wrong. I am sure the insurance company couldn't argue that one. He was standing in the middle of the street with a stop sign - parents and kids were on the corner and witnessed the entire thing. You were clearly in the wrong. DH and I left his aunts house and drove immediately over to the hospital. I stayed in the lounge with DS while DH went up to ICU to talk to the family. We kept in touch throughout his hospital stay and even sent food over to his daughters when he was released from the hospital and staying with her. DH family still to this day does not know we did this. They never once mention this poor man. Very bizarre from this very religious part of DH family.
I can't explain the behavior. I hope that your friend continues to improve and that she doesn't have any permanent or long lasting issues from the accident.

[specialp]

I can't explain the behavior either. I was in a serious car accident as a teenager that was caused by an elderly driver and resulted in a 3 car accident. Even though the elderly driver was responsible (no dispute about that) and caused me injury, my own mother repeatedly called the hospital and the elderly man's daughter to check on he and his wife and see how they were doing.


As for the suing, I think they'll be suing the car insurance company, not the old lady herself.

O/T, but wanted to clarify on this. Make no mistake that it is the woman who will be sued as well as the insurance co. The ins. co. has the money (for coverage limits), but she is still on the hook for any money awarded outside the coverage limits. Ok, done. Just wanted to clarify.

[elektra]

Yah I bet they are worried about being sued. Maybe a lawyer (and/or insurance company) has told them not to say anything. And the irony is, it sounds like you friend wouldn't have even gone the whole suing route if the other family had just offered some kind of apology.
I am so sorry for your friend. I hope she feels better soon.

It was very difficult getting my mother to stop driving, but she now has. I am so thankful she never hurt anyone. I would feel absolutely terrible if my mother ever did something like this lady did to your friend.
I am wondering what a short note saying how sorry the family was would really do in terms of making matters worse for the lady, you know?

[Fairy]

I'm so sorry, and I'm glad your friend is on the mend. Horrible!

As for the old woman, it is 100% the insurance company telling her not to reach out and contact anyone, period. From her perspective, she absoltuely cannot apologize, as that admits guilt and will mean the isnurance company has far less to lean on as far as a defense and trying to prove contributory negligence on your friend's part (standard stuff), and it will also mean she can be more easily prosecuted from a traffic/criminal aspect.

The woman should not apologize from a very objective point of view. That's just the way it is.

However, it sucks that this is the way it is. I'm sure the woman is feeling very guilty, and she should. What's more, if this is not, necessarily, a surprising thing that happened, then her family should be ashamed of themselves for allowing her to keep her license. That is if she HAS a family that is part of her life, who knows. This woman and the ins. co. should absolutely be sued for the maximum the policy limits will allow, and I would hope that she would be prosecuted.

we have to get a grip on our elderly. we're doing a sucky job in this country of doing that, ensuring they're well-cared for, have the ability to get what they need when they can't get in a car so that they DON'T get in a car. We are going to be them one day. I just hope that I will recognize when it's my time to stop driving.

Positive thoughts and good vibes to your friend.

[vahnessuh]

It is one thing for the insurance to tell you what to do... but it is also one thing for you as a human to do what you have to do. She was clearly in the wrong, without any question. They were in the parking lot, my friend was putting her son into the car. Nothing was negligent on my friend's part.

Oh, the old lady has family. She was actually picking up her niece from the grocery store where it happened. The other thing that made my friend angry was that the niece just stood there and watched after the thing happened. She didn't try and help or whatnot. My friend's husband was the one who called 911... Hello?! Couldn't she run and see how Karen was doing? Couldn't she stay with the kids in the car while everything was a mess? I know she couldn't do anything much as to helping... but being there helps.

From a very objective view, if you did this damage and there isn't any dispute, you apologize... regardless of whether the insurance company tells you not to. If this is how the world is going to operate, then we're doomed. We're teaching our kids not to accept responsibility and deal with the mistakes they've made. That they can get away with anything and not have to apologize for whoever they may have hurt in the process.

And you're right, Elektra. They wouldn't be suing if the other family showed concern over what happened.

[Fairy]

I don't dispute a thing you say. Taht's how the world SHOULD work. But it doesn't. There are many reasons why that kind of decency and taking responsibility for your actions and just plain compassion have evaporated in our culture. None of them seem very valid when you have something like this happen, and they stand there and watch. Your friend is lucky to be alive, and I'm so sorry she's going thru this :grouphug:

[DrSally]

That's just horrific what happened to your friend. Thank goodness her son was in the car. I agree it's disgraceful that no one has reached out to at least check and see how she's doing (even if they can't apologize).

[s7714]

The other thing that made my friend angry was that the niece just stood there and watched after the thing happened. She didn't try and help or whatnot. My friend's husband was the one who called 911... Hello?! Couldn't she run and see how Karen was doing? Couldn't she stay with the kids in the car while everything was a mess? I know she couldn't do anything much as to helping... but being there helps.

Shock is debilitating for some people. Not everyone has the ability to mentally calm themselves and assist after witnessing a accident, especially when a person they know was directly involved somehow.

[HannaAddict]

Eek! That is a terrible story but I am so glad your friend is alive and her child okay. But everyone, don't blame the lawyers, really. Insurance companies don't just offer to do the "right thing" and pay for the damages inflicted by customers. They just don't, that is not how the system we have (rightly or wrongly) operates. And this sounds like a policy limits or above case. Perhaps the driver has low limits and it won't even come close to covering the damage. Most insureds don't end up paying out of pocket, the insurance company usually settles within the limit, since it can be very hard to collect a judgment, if not impossible. They will often pick up more than the limit to get a settlement done depending on the circumstances. And, yes, the family of the woman could inquire about your friend and say sorry, that would not be evidence of guilt. But they might have been advised to leave the family alone.

I really don't think an apology alone would, or should, keep the driver from being sued and held accountable. She caused a horrible injury because of her negligence, why shouldn't she be accountable, just like we hold our children accountable for things they do wrong? I've seen posts on this board where posters are outraged a play date guest doesn't offer to repair or replace some inexpensive knick knack that gets broken, but yet saying sorry for almost killing a mother with your car should be enough? That seems absurd. Why should that poor mother, or our city/the treating hospital/or her private insurance absorb the costs of this horrible injury when she was doing nothing wrong? We have auto insurance for this very reason, to help compensate someone if we cause damage that we alone can't pay for - that is why we pay premiums and insurance execs get big paychecks managing the risk.

As for the driver, who knows if she had been told she shouldn't drive, etc., there could be much more to the story. She is old and who knows what her mental state was or is since the accident. If she had a medical event that she couldn't foresee, her insurance company could very well try to not contribute and say this accident isn't covered. Based on the facts, contibutory negligence is not an issue (it is comparative fault in WA). And Washington state does NOT have punitive damages so there is no huge award looming in that area though the medical expenses are probably very expensive (and accidents like this are not what generally trigger punatives). Also, when these types of cases settle or judgments are paid out, generally everyone takes a haircut - the other health insurance companies reduce their amount, the hospitals and doctors reduce their bill, etc. and even the lawyers can reduce their fees in an attempt to make the victim whole if the settlement is not enough to do that alone.

I am a lawyer, though I do not do personal injury law. I would hope your friend can find a good attorney who will work hard, but don't just trust Avvo or other web sites since they are not designed to provide real info and can be manipulated (and are manipulated) by the folks they rank. I would be happy to shoot you a couple of firms that are fantastic and ethical by PM if you want. Good luck to your friend.
Kimberly

[DrSally]

I know it should seem like an apology wouldn't be enough, but it's funny how that simple gesture is enough to instill forgiveness. Studies show that when doctors actually apologize for medical errors, families are much less likely to sue.

[HannaAddict]

Studies show that when doctors actually apologize for medical errors, families are much less likely to sue.

I think an apology would be nice, but not enough. Medical errors are very different liability wise and most are not even actionable (most people don't sue and most who sue don't win). Medical errors are a risk to treatment and few are actually something that you can or should find the doctor responsible for and it is hard to find a good lawyer to take the case. Med mal is very, very HARD to win, even if you are injured and have a legitimate case, even if the insurance industry doesn't want people to believe that. But getting run into in a parking lot by a car is not the same kind of mistake. Foregiveness is wonderful, but you can forgive someone and not find them evil or bad, and still expect them to pay for what they did if it hurt you or ruined something of yours. If I hit someone, I would want to apologize and pay for the damage, but not ruin my family's life, so I pay for very good insurance with high policy limits. It protects me and the people and property I may enounter when out driving a 5,000 lb. machine. I wouldn't want the woman who was injured to feel badly about being compensated for being horribly injured.

[DrSally]

I think an apology would be nice, but not enough. Medical errors are very different liability wise and most are not even actionable (most people don't sue and most who sue don't win). Medical errors are a risk to treatment and few are actually something that you can or should find the doctor responsible for and it is hard to find a good lawyer to take the case. Med mal is very, very HARD to win, even if you are injured and have a legitimate case, even if the insurance industry doesn't want people to believe that. But getting run into in a parking lot by a car is not the same kind of mistake. Foregiveness is wonderful, but you can forgive someone and not find them evil or bad, and still expect them to pay for what they did if it hurt you or ruined something of yours. If I hit someone, I would want to apologize and pay for the damage, but not ruin my family's life, so I pay for very good insurance with high policy limits. It protects me and the people and property I may enounter when out driving a 5,000 lb. machine. I wouldn't want the woman who was injured to feel badly about being compensated for being horribly injured.

Whoa. I'm not at all saying that she shouldn't be compensated, or that medical errors are equivalent to being hit by a car. All I was commenting on was the power of an apology to instill forgiveness in general. From the original post, she didn't blame the woman, wasn't going to sue her and would've been satisfied with an apology. Again, not commenting on whether she should have felt that way or not.

[vahnessuh]

Update: My friend and her husband have already retained the services of a lawyer... so now the family of the old woman want to talk to her! But she and her husband have decided to just focus on her rehabilitation, therapy and recovery... and to somehow move on with this new challenge... so they're letting the lawyer handle everything and keep their hands off of the whole litigation thing unless it's totally needed. So no, old lady's family. You've had your chance to talk to Karen. From now on, you'll have to deal with the lawyer.