Thanks for selling me a worm infested puppy....LIAR

[ohiomom1121]

Warning! This is gross.............I've never posted in the bitching post before but feel like I have to vent somewhere because I'm so stinking mad. I bought an American Bulldog puppy 2 weeks ago that I found on craigslist. She said she had just taken them to the vet for their first shots and worming that day and the puppy was ready to go. The puppy has had diarrhea since we got her...we thought it was the food (same kind they had her on) so we were trying to switch it and mixing it with a new food. Then one morning I woke up to a pile of WORMS in her cage. SO, SO, GROSS. So I immediately took her to the vet who said she was full of them, and started her on worming meds. So now she is pretty much pooping out globs of worms and vomiting. I got the shot record book and tried to find the vet online and realized it was from a pet supply ordering place ONLINE. So the lady basically ordered the shots and the worming kit (which are basically useless when bought OTC), did everything herself and lied to me about it. I can't believe this mess...I have a very sick puppy who is quarantined to the kitchen and I'm paranoid about my kids somehow picking this up. I am so mad that I trusted people not to be MORONS. Ok, I've vented....thanks for listening, or I guess reading!!! :32:

[infomama]

Oh man that sucks. I would be on the horn to that woman in a heartbeat and tell her she should pay for the worming through your vet. Worth a phone call. Hope your puppy feels better soon...american bulldogs are so cute.

[KBecks]

I would also look into any way to report her, to a breeder association, rescue groups, animal control, etc. I don't know if your state has laws about standards, but it is worth checking.

[ohiomom1121]

My husband called her and she completely lied and said she told me she did it herself etc, etc. He thinks there's no way to prove what was said, but I'm so angry about it I may have to try. Good point!

[ThreeofUs]

I would be so p*ssed, Nikki! So sorry you all are going through this - especially that poor little puppy.

[Wife_and_mommy]

I'm sorry. :(

It's been a while since I had a puppy(and our dog didn't have worms) but I thought worms were pretty standard in pups? I might be wrong but I recall that all of them are treated for worms because it's so common.

I hope your puppy heals quickly.:hug:

[Momof3Labs]

I've never owned a puppy, but I thought that puppies needed to be de-wormed a couple of times, that once is not enough. Maybe I'm wrong?

[Wife_and_mommy]

I've never owned a puppy, but I thought that puppies needed to be de-wormed a couple of times, that once is not enough. Maybe I'm wrong?

Yes. It's coming back to me.... The vet actually checks our dog's stool each year so it isn't abnormal that this puppy would have worms. It sounds pretty serious though if the pup is that sick. It's definitely not something one should do with an OTC kit.

I'm sorry again, OP. The poor pup.

[ohiomom1121]

Yes, they do need to be de wormed multiple times, but I've read on tons of sites that the OTC, or do it yourself kits never work. I guess they need multiple wormings because the meds kill the actual worms, but may miss the eggs. She is severely infested and (now I know) her big round belly was completely full of them when I got her. She looks so skinny now after pooping out so many worms. UGH...

Oh, I forgot the best part. When I picked the puppy up she said, make sure you only give her the amount of food you want her to eat because she LOVES to eat and tries to take the other puppies' food. Poor girl was stealing their food because the belly full of worms was stealing hers. So frustrating.

[misshollygolightly]

Oh man. What a nightmare! Poor puppy...poor you! I'm morbidly afraid of worms (any and all kinds), and I really can't think of much worse than finding globs of them all over. Ugh...I'll probably have nightmares tonight just thinking about it!!! Sure hope you can get everything straightened out soon, and the puppy turns out so lovable and well-behaved that it makes up for everything!

[chessie]

Wow, I'm so sorry! Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way for you to make that breeder take responsibility. Here's my lesson from buying puppies (I hope I don't offend anyone, but I do think that there are too many people out there just to make a buck). My advice to friends are either to buy/adopt a puppy/dog from a animal shelter or to buy it from a reputable breeder. Obviously, you know when you're going to a shelter (and the shelter cares about the welfare of the dog more than the money) but the main point I look for in a reputable breeder is that they show their dogs and their dogs have titles eg. champions. And ideally, they belong to a breed association of some sort since they usually have a code of ethics they follow (eg. how many breedings a year, non-breeding contracts to non-show dogs etc).

My friends usually questions me when I say that I want the breeder to have Champion dogs because they just want a pet (not a show dog), and so do I. My response is that the fact that these breeders show their dogs because they have a vested interest in the breed and want to make sure that their dogs are "bettering" the breed by meeting the breed standards. In a litter of puppies, I would say that most are sold as pets because they don't all quality to be show dogs and I would buy one of those. But at least I know the intentions of the breeder and that the parents (since they are usually champions) meet the breed standard and have the recommended genetic testing done to decrease the chance of passing on faulty genes. Eg. Large breed dogs tend to have hip dysplasia (and responsible breeders would screen and x-ray the parents before breeding). Labrador retrievers would be tested for eye, heart and hips (normal protocol). Yes, the price is more, but the extra money on the initial purchase is nothing in comparison of what you would spend in the life of the dog and in the potential for vet bills later (eg. one hip replacement is over $2000). During my teenage years, my family got a puppy from a "backyard breeder" and we ended up having to put the dog down due to temperment issues 4 years later (she also needed surgery over $1000). Complete heartache! (not to say that it won't happen from a responsible breeder, but the odds are better). After a few interviews, we found a breeder (a good one usually asks you more questions than you ask them because they are picky as to who they sell their dogs to). I can call her anytime regarding questions about my dog (he's 12 yrs old now :) Again, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It makes me so upset that you have to deal with this (and you have kids to worry about). Bringing a puppy home is happy moment but can be stressful too, and to have to deal with issues that could be prevented because someone is trying to save money make me angry.

[R2sweetboys]

Wow, I'm so sorry! Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way for you to make that breeder take responsibility. Here's my lesson from buying puppies (I hope I don't offend anyone, but I do think that there are too many people out there just to make a buck). My advice to friends are either to buy/adopt a puppy/dog from a animal shelter or to buy it from a reputable breeder. Obviously, you know when you're going to a shelter (and the shelter cares about the welfare of the dog more than the money) but the main point I look for in a reputable breeder is that they show their dogs and their dogs have titles eg. champions. And ideally, they belong to a breed association of some sort since they usually have a code of ethics they follow (eg. how many breedings a year, non-breeding contracts to non-show dogs etc).

My friends usually questions me when I say that I want the breeder to have Champion dogs because they just want a pet (not a show dog), and so do I. My response is that the fact that these breeders show their dogs because they have a vested interest in the breed and want to make sure that their dogs are "bettering" the breed by meeting the breed standards. In a litter of puppies, I would say that most are sold as pets because they don't all quality to be show dogs and I would buy one of those. But at least I know the intentions of the breeder and that the parents (since they are usually champions) meet the breed standard and have the recommended genetic testing done to decrease the chance of passing on faulty genes. Eg. Large breed dogs tend to have hip dysplasia (and responsible breeders would screen and x-ray the parents before breeding). Labrador retrievers would be tested for eye, heart and hips (normal protocol). Yes, the price is more, but the extra money on the initial purchase is nothing in comparison of what you would spend in the life of the dog and in the potential for vet bills later (eg. one hip replacement is over $2000). During my teenage years, my family got a puppy from a "backyard breeder" and we ended up having to put the dog down due to temperment issues 4 years later (she also needed surgery over $1000). Complete heartache! (not to say that it won't happen from a responsible breeder, but the odds are better). After a few interviews, we found a breeder (a good one usually asks you more questions than you ask them because they are picky as to who they sell their dogs to). I can call her anytime regarding questions about my dog (he's 12 yrs old now :) Again, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It makes me so upset that you have to deal with this (and you have kids to worry about). Bringing a puppy home is happy moment but can be stressful too, and to have to deal with issues that could be prevented because someone is trying to save money make me angry.
:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:
I'm so sorry for you and your little pup. I'm sure it's miserable for her and I know I would be grossed out too. Unfortunately, Craigslist is a nightmare of a place to adopt an animal from, especially a puppy. There's not a chance in he11 that they are responsible breeders in any way. Your "breeder" has proven that. :thumbsdown:

[Radosti]

OK, as a director of a rescue, I need to say something.

1) All puppies start out with worms. They need to be wormed several times before they clear them completely. The regular wormer only takes care of the basic worms, like hookworms and such. To take out the roundworms and tapeworms, you need a stronger medicine. And again, several treatments. She may very well have wormed the puppies, but by not telling you when it was due for the next worming... you may have let them become overpopulated again.

2) You chose to buy a puppy from a backyard breeder who sells on Craigslist. What did you expect? These people are the scum of the universe as far as rescuers are concerned. They sells indiscriminately to anyone with money. Their goal is to make money off the puppies, not to improve the breed or add the "perfect" member to your family. They are only one step above puppy millers (who will burn in hell for their deeds).

3) You've had the puppy for two weeks and didn't take it to the vet despite the fact that it was clearly ill!!! Who does that??? A vet visit is in order the moment anyone brings home a puppy from a questionable source. That's just common sense.

4) You didn't ask for a copy of the vet record. So, there is no way you can prove to a vet that the puppy has had a shot. Nor is there any way for a vet to tell what the pup has been wormed with before. ALWAYS ASK FOR DOCUMENTED PROOF OF VET WORK, protect your investment.

If you'd have gone with a rescue dog, you'd have had a packet of paperwork provided with the dog that documents the history of everything that had been done to a dog since it entered the rescue. We are an open book. Your adoption fee covers vet costs and the expenses incurred by the foster home. That's all. We screen our adopters. I've denied several families the dog they'd applied for and offered them a better fit instead. Why? Because my goal is to adopt a dog out to a permanent home. And to make it permanent, I have to make sure the fit is perfect!!! There is very little room for error. All of those families have come back to thank me for matching them with the right dogs. The one dog I'd placed against my better judgement, came back within weeks. You better believe I never did that again.

I know many people don't like the intrusion of privacy when a rescue makes them fill out personal information and asks probing questions. But they end up paying for it by ending up with sick or poorly matched puppies.

Oh, and even I've had a few dogs go out to adoptive homes over the years and present with demodectic mange within weeks. The stress of being in a shelter, being pulled into a rescue, then being placed in a home will make it happen. The owners called me for info, I told them to take them to a vet, get treatments, and that's it. It's not sarcoptic. It happens. Even to the most careful of us. Still, I can prove every vet visit my fosters have had. And they understood it. That's why I adopted to them in the first place.

Breeding and buying is wrong when there are so many homeless pets out there... that's all.

[Wife_and_mommy]

OK, as a director of a rescue, I need to say something.

1) All puppies start out with worms. They need to be wormed several times before they clear them completely. The regular wormer only takes care of the basic worms, like hookworms and such. To take out the roundworms and tapeworms, you need a stronger medicine. And again, several treatments. She may very well have wormed the puppies, but by not telling you when it was due for the next worming... you may have let them become overpopulated again.

2) You chose to buy a puppy from a backyard breeder who sells on Craigslist. What did you expect? These people are the scum of the universe as far as rescuers are concerned. They sells indiscriminately to anyone with money. Their goal is to make money off the puppies, not to improve the breed or add the "perfect" member to your family. They are only one step above puppy millers (who will burn in hell for their deeds).

3) You've had the puppy for two weeks and didn't take it to the vet despite the fact that it was clearly ill!!! Who does that??? A vet visit is in order the moment anyone brings home a puppy from a questionable source. That's just common sense.

4) You didn't ask for a copy of the vet record. So, there is no way you can prove to a vet that the puppy has had a shot. Nor is there any way for a vet to tell what the pup has been wormed with before. ALWAYS ASK FOR DOCUMENTED PROOF OF VET WORK, protect your investment.

If you'd have gone with a rescue dog, you'd have had a packet of paperwork provided with the dog that documents the history of everything that had been done to a dog since it entered the rescue. We are an open book. Your adoption fee covers vet costs and the expenses incurred by the foster home. That's all. We screen our adopters. I've denied several families the dog they'd applied for and offered them a better fit instead. Why? Because my goal is to adopt a dog out to a permanent home. And to make it permanent, I have to make sure the fit is perfect!!! There is very little room for error. All of those families have come back to thank me for matching them with the right dogs. The one dog I'd placed against my better judgement, came back within weeks. You better believe I never did that again.

I know many people don't like the intrusion of privacy when a rescue makes them fill out personal information and asks probing questions. But they end up paying for it by ending up with sick or poorly matched puppies.

Oh, and even I've had a few dogs go out to adoptive homes over the years and present with demodectic mange within weeks. The stress of being in a shelter, being pulled into a rescue, then being placed in a home will make it happen. The owners called me for info, I told them to take them to a vet, get treatments, and that's it. It's not sarcoptic. It happens. Even to the most careful of us. Still, I can prove every vet visit my fosters have had. And they understood it. That's why I adopted to them in the first place.

Breeding and buying is wrong when there are so many homeless pets out there... that's all.

What great lessons, R. Thanks for sharing your heart on the matter.

Our 10yo "pup" was from a backyard breeder and I didnt' learn until she was a couple years old the mistake we made. We're happy she's a part of our family and we'll love her for her remaining time with us but I won't be making the same mistake again. I believe we've been fortunate re: her health considering where she came from.

[ohiomom1121]

OK, as a director of a rescue, I need to say something.

1) All puppies start out with worms. They need to be wormed several times before they clear them completely. The regular wormer only takes care of the basic worms, like hookworms and such. To take out the roundworms and tapeworms, you need a stronger medicine. And again, several treatments. She may very well have wormed the puppies, but by not telling you when it was due for the next worming... you may have let them become overpopulated again.

2) You chose to buy a puppy from a backyard breeder who sells on Craigslist. What did you expect? These people are the scum of the universe as far as rescuers are concerned. They sells indiscriminately to anyone with money. Their goal is to make money off the puppies, not to improve the breed or add the "perfect" member to your family. They are only one step above puppy millers (who will burn in hell for their deeds).

3) You've had the puppy for two weeks and didn't take it to the vet despite the fact that it was clearly ill!!! Who does that??? A vet visit is in order the moment anyone brings home a puppy from a questionable source. That's just common sense.

4) You didn't ask for a copy of the vet record. So, there is no way you can prove to a vet that the puppy has had a shot. Nor is there any way for a vet to tell what the pup has been wormed with before. ALWAYS ASK FOR DOCUMENTED PROOF OF VET WORK, protect your investment.

If you'd have gone with a rescue dog, you'd have had a packet of paperwork provided with the dog that documents the history of everything that had been done to a dog since it entered the rescue. We are an open book. Your adoption fee covers vet costs and the expenses incurred by the foster home. That's all. We screen our adopters. I've denied several families the dog they'd applied for and offered them a better fit instead. Why? Because my goal is to adopt a dog out to a permanent home. And to make it permanent, I have to make sure the fit is perfect!!! There is very little room for error. All of those families have come back to thank me for matching them with the right dogs. The one dog I'd placed against my better judgement, came back within weeks. You better believe I never did that again.

I know many people don't like the intrusion of privacy when a rescue makes them fill out personal information and asks probing questions. But they end up paying for it by ending up with sick or poorly matched puppies.

Oh, and even I've had a few dogs go out to adoptive homes over the years and present with demodectic mange within weeks. The stress of being in a shelter, being pulled into a rescue, then being placed in a home will make it happen. The owners called me for info, I told them to take them to a vet, get treatments, and that's it. It's not sarcoptic. It happens. Even to the most careful of us. Still, I can prove every vet visit my fosters have had. And they understood it. That's why I adopted to them in the first place.

Breeding and buying is wrong when there are so many homeless pets out there... that's all.
Wow, tell me how you really feel....Just to answer a few of your points, I know all puppies are born with worms, but if she hadn't given her OTC meds, they actually may have worked. Next, I had NO IDEA about this issue with craigslist...I'm pretty sure it wasn't around 13 years ago when I got my first dog. I had been looking for months at rescues and never found a large breed puppy that I was interested in.
I'm not quite sure where you got she was clearly ill from, she was active, playful, happy puppy. I thought she was a little chubby, so I'm very sorry I don't have your level of puppy education to know that this meant she had worms. Also I DID get a shot record book...as I said in the initial post I didn't know it was an online place. I don't have all the area vets memorized. And I called my vet right away and they scheduled an appt. for three weeks from her first set of shots...if they didn't say I should bring her in right away, how should I have known? My whole point of the post was that I trusted someone that I shouldn't have. I made a mistake and was venting about it.
So to sum up, I would happily have gotten a rescue dog if I had found what I wanted, but I didn't. And to be fair, you may give an info pack, but often you don't know much about a pet's history before they got to you!!! And by the way, the last puppy I got 13 years ago was from a kind of shady, friend of a friend. No reputable breeder by any stretch...and she was the MOST WONDERFUL dog. I miss her daily which is why I was looking for a new dog......

[fortato]

OK, as a director of a rescue, I need to say something.

1) All puppies start out with worms. They need to be wormed several times before they clear them completely. The regular wormer only takes care of the basic worms, like hookworms and such. To take out the roundworms and tapeworms, you need a stronger medicine. And again, several treatments. She may very well have wormed the puppies, but by not telling you when it was due for the next worming... you may have let them become overpopulated again.

2) You chose to buy a puppy from a backyard breeder who sells on Craigslist. What did you expect? These people are the scum of the universe as far as rescuers are concerned. They sells indiscriminately to anyone with money. Their goal is to make money off the puppies, not to improve the breed or add the "perfect" member to your family. They are only one step above puppy millers (who will burn in hell for their deeds).

3) You've had the puppy for two weeks and didn't take it to the vet despite the fact that it was clearly ill!!! Who does that??? A vet visit is in order the moment anyone brings home a puppy from a questionable source. That's just common sense.

4) You didn't ask for a copy of the vet record. So, there is no way you can prove to a vet that the puppy has had a shot. Nor is there any way for a vet to tell what the pup has been wormed with before. ALWAYS ASK FOR DOCUMENTED PROOF OF VET WORK, protect your investment.

If you'd have gone with a rescue dog, you'd have had a packet of paperwork provided with the dog that documents the history of everything that had been done to a dog since it entered the rescue. We are an open book. Your adoption fee covers vet costs and the expenses incurred by the foster home. That's all. We screen our adopters. I've denied several families the dog they'd applied for and offered them a better fit instead. Why? Because my goal is to adopt a dog out to a permanent home. And to make it permanent, I have to make sure the fit is perfect!!! There is very little room for error. All of those families have come back to thank me for matching them with the right dogs. The one dog I'd placed against my better judgement, came back within weeks. You better believe I never did that again.

I know many people don't like the intrusion of privacy when a rescue makes them fill out personal information and asks probing questions. But they end up paying for it by ending up with sick or poorly matched puppies.

Oh, and even I've had a few dogs go out to adoptive homes over the years and present with demodectic mange within weeks. The stress of being in a shelter, being pulled into a rescue, then being placed in a home will make it happen. The owners called me for info, I told them to take them to a vet, get treatments, and that's it. It's not sarcoptic. It happens. Even to the most careful of us. Still, I can prove every vet visit my fosters have had. And they understood it. That's why I adopted to them in the first place.

Breeding and buying is wrong when there are so many homeless pets out there... that's all.

Right on!
I was thinking the same thing about bringing home a puppy and not going to the vet. Our puppy was healthy and we brought him to the vet anyway... just to be safe.

[Jo..]

Rada, this is good info.

I agree, ALWAYS take a pet to a vet WHEN you get it. I have found strays in the street, and I take them to the vet. Even when money was TIGHT. One stray I found had heartworm :(.

Backyard breeders and CL sellers are the scum of the world, and they prey on ignorance.

[sarahsthreads]

What great lessons, R. Thanks for sharing your heart on the matter.

Our 10yo "pup" was from a backyard breeder and I didnt' learn until she was a couple years old the mistake we made. We're happy she's a part of our family and we'll love her for her remaining time with us but I won't be making the same mistake again. I believe we've been fortunate re: her health considering where she came from.

We made a similar mistake, and yes, we still love our "pup". (Even if she is a little not-quite-right in the head...) Our second dog is a mutt from a shelter and he is so much more well-adjusted then our anxiety-ridden golden with hip dysplasia. We'll definitely be adopting shelter dogs from now on. Well, assuming that DH with his (mild) dog allergies ever agrees to another dog when these two move on. (Don't worry, the kids and I will win that argument.)

OP I'm sorry you're dealing with such a mess. Worms are no fun at all! I hope your new puppy feels better very soon!

Sarah :)

[ohiomom1121]

Rada, this is good info.

I agree, ALWAYS take a pet to a vet WHEN you get it. I have found strays in the street, and I take them to the vet. Even when money was TIGHT. One stray I found had heartworm :(.

Backyard breeders and CL sellers are the scum of the world, and they prey on ignorance.

Obviously I would do that if I got another animal. Wish I'd known all of this before.

And thanks to all of those who've expressed kind words. It's been a long few days and venting was to make myself feel *better*.

[gatorsmom]

Wow, tell me how you really feel....Just to answer a few of your points, I know all puppies are born with worms, but if she hadn't given her OTC meds, they actually may have worked. Next, I had NO IDEA about this issue with craigslist...I'm pretty sure it wasn't around 13 years ago when I got my first dog. I had been looking for months at rescues and never found a large breed puppy that I was interested in.
I'm not quite sure where you got she was clearly ill from, she was active, playful, happy puppy. I thought she was a little chubby, so I'm very sorry I don't have your level of puppy education to know that this meant she had worms. Also I DID get a shot record book...as I said in the initial post I didn't know it was an online place. I don't have all the area vets memorized. And I called my vet right away and they scheduled an appt. for three weeks from her first set of shots...if they didn't say I should bring her in right away, how should I have known? My whole point of the post was that I trusted someone that I shouldn't have. I made a mistake and was venting about it.
So to sum up, I would happily have gotten a rescue dog if I had found what I wanted, but I didn't. And to be fair, you may give an info pack, but often you don't know much about a pet's history before they got to you!!! And by the way, the last puppy I got 13 years ago was from a kind of shady, friend of a friend. No reputable breeder by any stretch...and she was the MOST WONDERFUL dog. I miss her daily which is why I was looking for a new dog......

Rada is a genius regarding pets and I'm being sincere. If you've read some of her previous posts you'd see what I mean. Her animal knowledge is really impressive.

I just wanted to say, though, that I probably would have made the same mistake as you as far as not taking the puppy to the vet. Honestly, until I started lurking on these boards, I thought puppies came from the pet shop. Of course, I'll admit I know zilch about dogs.

I sure hope your little pup feels better soon. And I hope those worms are gone soon. ick.

[ohiomom1121]

Rada is a genius regarding pets and I'm being sincere. If you've read some of her previous posts you'd see what I mean. Her animal knowledge is really impressive.

I just wanted to say, though, that I probably would have made the same mistake as you as far as not taking the puppy to the vet. Honestly, until I started lurking on these boards, I thought puppies came from the pet shop. Of course, I'll admit I know zilch about dogs.

I sure hope your little pup feels better soon. And I hope those worms are gone soon. ick.

I'm sure you're correct on that, and wish I'd found her as a resource before I started looking...I just felt a little attacked for not having good info, especially since several of the points weren't correct. I thought of a pet store too, but then read about puppy mills and decided to steer clear. Guess I "steared" in the wrong direction. Can't win!!! But honestly I think the puppy will be a good dog. She's a lot of work, as all puppies are (especially with little kids), but super loving and she seems smart. Thanks. :)

[Radosti]

Thanks guys! I am so glad that I have been able to educate people regarding pets over the years. In rescue, there are so many days where I feel like it's a thankless job, like there are too many to help, it's an overwhelming feeling. And then I get a scrapbook from an adopter about their pet. Or one of you says that they've learned something. It makes the world go around.

While it's true that I usually don't know the dogs' histories when I get them here, I live with them and I temperament test them. By the time they find a home, I know exactly what kind of family will be the right fit. So, I don't need to know their past to know their future, KWIM?

I have pulled tons of puppies from Ohio. Never bully breeds. Well, not on purpose, one Ohio shelter sent me a "border collie mix" that was clearly bully with no border collie. I just cannot handle their intensity with my cats/dogs/kids. Ohio is so bad with homeless pets too. Columbiana shelter kills everything that is not adopted or rescued, EVERY week. The last two dogs I got from Marietta, OH were great dane mix pups, 6 months old. Hours from being put down. I had to bribe them to keep them alive. Zanesville will send me as many large breed puppies as I can handle... in fact, I took 8 of them last time and they turned out to be 5 weeks old and very ill. Nothing some good food and vetting won't fix.

But yes, worms are nothing. I buy a bottle of dewormer that costs $325 for 50 pills. Why? Because I expect all sorts of worms and I'd rather not even test anymore, they all get dewormed with the good stuff and it's repeated in 4 weeks. They get Heartgard and Frontline too. You'd be shocked how many fleas I've washed down the drain over the years during the first bath. Oh, and I do my own shots and microchipping too. But each dog/cat visits the vet. Each time I do a shot, the sticker from the bottle is removed and affixed to the vet record. The microchipping info is also given to the owners.

[NancyJ_redo]

I consider myself quite well-informed on a broad range of subjects and, despite having grown up with dogs my entire childhood, I wouldn't have known to do (or avoid, as the case may be) most of what Radosti said. CL bad for buying dogs? Nope, didn't know that. And I only know about puppy mills being bad because I saw it on Oprah. And re worms, timing of first vet visit, etc., I wouldn't have known about that either. Perhaps it seems like common sense or second nature to those who are knowledgeable about dogs, and I actually thought I was at least kind of knowledgeable about them since I grew up with them, but in reading this thread I realize I know nothing.

We're at least a few years off from getting a dog, but at least I will know a little about what to do and not to do thanks to this thread.

[Jo..]

Obviously I would do that if I got another animal. Wish I'd known all of this before.

Right, I wasn't suggesting you knew better and I'm sorry if you felt slammed.

Many years ago in my ignorance I fell prey to an unethical backyard breeder. My lack of information cost us $10,000 in vet bills and years of heartache before our poor dog finally passed away at the age of 6 :( ).

Since then, I vowed to be really careful about where I get my dogs, and getting them checked, but not everyone knows this. But everyone needs to!

Worms are gross, but easily treatable. Sorry you're dealing with them, but you'll hopefully have a healthy pet when you're done.

[jayali]

Worms are gross. I remember them from my childhood dog. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this.

19 years ago we purchased our first dog (as a married couple) from a puppy mill and two nights later she ended up in the hospital with pneumonia. It was such a learning experience for us. Despite our story friends of ours just did the exact same thing. They are smart educated people so I was shocked that they were taken in by the same "breeder" scam as we were. Anyway that is a different story.

What I did want to tell you is that many states have lemon laws that will allow you to sue for medical expenses up to the purchase price of the dog. We were able to recoup $1000 of the multiple thousands that it cost us when our first dog was purchased. You may want to look into the Ohio laws on that. Not that it will make your puppy any better, but at least it would be some sort of lesson to the person who sold her to you.

Our second dog was a 10 year old rescue. We just lost her this past November. We didn't have a great experience with rescue either. Cinnie's records were not the best and she was sick (which we knew when we purchased her) but her rescue had her on all sorts of medicine, that our vet thought was causing reactions. It took us a full year to wean Cinnie from some meds and she really ended up not being as sick as we thought. In fact our vet thought that she may have been much younger then her paperwork indicated because of how well she did in that first year. Our rescue never followed up with us to see how she was doing and we felt a little sad by that. Like they were glad to get rid of her.

All that said, we will still rescue our next dog. I think that people that do rescue on angels and I wish that we could. We don't have the room and I am not that good with the fleas/gross things that I know come with this precious four legged sweeties.

[ohiomom1121]

Worms are gross. I remember them from my childhood dog. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this.

19 years ago we purchased our first dog (as a married couple) from a puppy mill and two nights later she ended up in the hospital with pneumonia. It was such a learning experience for us. Despite our story friends of ours just did the exact same thing. They are smart educated people so I was shocked that they were taken in by the same "breeder" scam as we were. Anyway that is a different story.

What I did want to tell you is that many states have lemon laws that will allow you to sue for medical expenses up to the purchase price of the dog. We were able to recoup $1000 of the multiple thousands that it cost us when our first dog was purchased. You may want to look into the Ohio laws on that. Not that it will make your puppy any better, but at least it would be some sort of lesson to the person who sold her to you.

Our second dog was a 10 year old rescue. We just lost her this past November. We didn't have a great experience with rescue either. Cinnie's records were not the best and she was sick (which we knew when we purchased her) but her rescue had her on all sorts of medicine, that our vet thought was causing reactions. It took us a full year to wean Cinnie from some meds and she really ended up not being as sick as we thought. In fact our vet thought that she may have been much younger then her paperwork indicated because of how well she did in that first year. Our rescue never followed up with us to see how she was doing and we felt a little sad by that. Like they were glad to get rid of her.

All that said, we will still rescue our next dog. I think that people that do rescue on angels and I wish that we could. We don't have the room and I am not that good with the fleas/gross things that I know come with this precious four legged sweeties.

Wow, that stinks. I'm surprised your friends did the same thing after your experience. My parents always rescued dogs with good success, until their last dog who they purchased at Petland. She's 6 and happy and healthy too. They have also "inherited" my grandmother's dog after she passed away, who was a rescue, and she is horrible. They have to put her outside or in the bedroom when we come over because she's growled at my kids and is very snappy. I got my previous dog from what was probably a "backyard breeder" and she was 100lbs and the perfect dog, and 12 1/2 when she finally had to be put down due to a large tumor (but it was a long life for such a large dog). It's just so hard to predict. I am not willing to pay $1000s to know a dogs bloodlines, so I guess you never know (my DH would probably divorce me if I even suggested it...LOL). I do regret supporting the woman I got her from...DEFINITELY. I wish I was armed with all of this info a few months ago, but as you said it's a life lesson.
BTW, I'm happy to report the worms are officially GONE. She's going in for round 2 of her shots in a few days, and puppy classes next week. So things are looking up. Again, thanks for those of you who have been supportive!

[KBecks]

Wow, tell me how you really feel....Just to answer a few of your points, I know all puppies are born with worms, but if she hadn't given her OTC meds, they actually may have worked. Next, I had NO IDEA about this issue with craigslist...I'm pretty sure it wasn't around 13 years ago when I got my first dog. I had been looking for months at rescues and never found a large breed puppy that I was interested in.
I'm not quite sure where you got she was clearly ill from, she was active, playful, happy puppy. I thought she was a little chubby, so I'm very sorry I don't have your level of puppy education to know that this meant she had worms. Also I DID get a shot record book...as I said in the initial post I didn't know it was an online place. I don't have all the area vets memorized. And I called my vet right away and they scheduled an appt. for three weeks from her first set of shots...if they didn't say I should bring her in right away, how should I have known? My whole point of the post was that I trusted someone that I shouldn't have. I made a mistake and was venting about it.
So to sum up, I would happily have gotten a rescue dog if I had found what I wanted, but I didn't. And to be fair, you may give an info pack, but often you don't know much about a pet's history before they got to you!!! And by the way, the last puppy I got 13 years ago was from a kind of shady, friend of a friend. No reputable breeder by any stretch...and she was the MOST WONDERFUL dog. I miss her daily which is why I was looking for a new dog......

Nikki, I'm so sorry you're going through this and I'm sorry that Rad's post is bad timing for you. I hope your puppy feels better soon and I'm sorry you are having to deal with the ick of worms.

I didn't know CL was a terrible place for puppies either. In years past I might have looked in the newspaper classifieds...... now it seems easier with breeder web sites, etc. but perhaps it's not easier at all, per your experience.

We are not planning to get a dog right now but maybe someday. I just read an article last month about hellish breeders in the Amish and Mennonite communities in our state and the fact that my state has crap for regulations and the governor says we don't have the money to deal with enforcement so it got struck from the budget (oops, my own bitch there).

I appreciate Rad's info though for my future use.... I'm sorry it came out as feeling negative towards you.

Our local news has adopt-a-pet features every weekend. Last week it was an adorable cat and this week a lab mix puppy. Ooooohhhhh! We are so not ready for a pet.... but it seems the humane society has no shortage of wonderful animals available.

[Melanie]

Oh man, I am so sorry.

Can someone educate me, on why "all dogs are born with worms?"


We're in the research phase of getting a family dog. As a PPer said, I am leaning towards show dog breeders for the reasons she posted. I feel that they have a vested interest in the health of the dog. I wouldn't necessarily care pure bred or not, but I have developed horrific allergies in my "old age," and am wanting one of the breeds that is less allergenic.

My beloved childhood dog was a mutt from the pennysaver. LOL. AND, she was just wonderful, from a lovely couple who had the misfortune of a neighborhood stray jumping the fence to visit their TWO pure Goldens they had yet to sterilize (I know, I know...I won't be making that mistake!) eeks. 21 puppies in one week!!!

I've known people to recommend petfinder.org as a portal to many rescue organizations. Is that still reputable?

[KHF]

I'm far from an expert, but we have used Petfinder twice now to rescue cats. We just got another one this weekend. We were able to look online and find out about the cats, then the cat we were interested in was going to be at our local PetSmart. We went over there this weekend and fell in love with her. We brought her home on Saturday.

She came from a small local cat rescue organization. We got all of her veterinary information, and her history. She's seven years old and such a sweet girl. We love her very much already!

[AngelaS]

Puppies get worms from being outside in the dirt and roundworms can be passed from mom to babies in utero. Dog worms are NOT the same kinds that people catch.

Puppies need wormed at 2, 4 and 6 weeks. It sounds like your breeder didn't give enough doses to the puppies or didn't give a big enough dose. At any time, you can take a fecal sample to your vet, they'll check to see if puppy needs wormed yet again.

As for the OTC stuff, it does work. But it's not a one time dose--it needs repeated a couple of times. My sister has raised hundreds of dogs and uses the mail order meds all the time with no problems.

[ohiomom1121]

Puppies get worms from being outside in the dirt and roundworms can be passed from mom to babies in utero. Dog worms are NOT the same kinds that people catch.

Puppies need wormed at 2, 4 and 6 weeks. It sounds like your breeder didn't give enough doses to the puppies or didn't give a big enough dose. At any time, you can take a fecal sample to your vet, they'll check to see if puppy needs wormed yet again.

As for the OTC stuff, it does work. But it's not a one time dose--it needs repeated a couple of times. My sister has raised hundreds of dogs and uses the mail order meds all the time with no problems.

My vet and pediatrician both said humans can pick up roundworms....here's an article about it. http://www.dogchatforum.com/children-catch-worms-from-dogs.htm
Makes me a little icky about letting the kids play in sandboxes. We had to pick up the puppy's poo up right away so there were not any eggs left on the soil.

[deborah_r]

I had no idea all dogs were born with worms. Seriously, all dogs??? Why?

The only dog I've had in my adult life (no idea what the health situations were with my family pets growing up) - we got him from a shelter and no one said anything about worms. We took him to the vet right away, but I just thought that was for shots and stuff. He did have a slight case of mange (very mild, just one small spot) but no other problems.

Good information in this thread.

[AngelaS]

Roundworms yes, tape worms yes, but the general 'worms' the dogs get, no. :) Dogs don't carry pinworms which is the kind of worms that kids generally get. And from what I hear, they're SUPER gross!!

If you wanna be really skeeved out--go to Google and put in "tape worm pictures". The girls and I were discussing worms the other day after reading the book "Dr. Dog" so we looked up various worms. Eww...

[pamxch]

Now I understand, and appreciate, the one free vet visit offered with the cats I've adopted from the local humane society. The visits were usually required within one week of adoption and they always wanted a stool sample. I could choose from a list of local vets. Any additional shots or medications required payment at the visit but the exam was free.

[vejemom]

I'm far from an expert, but I've worked with horses and dogs for a long time, and I've worked as a vet assistant for a few years. I can offer this advice from what I've seen at the vet's office:

Research your breed. This dog will be your companion for 10+ years. YOu did a lot of research (AKA dated) DH before you married him. You owe it to yourself to do the same with the dog. A couple starting points:
1) The national breed fancier clubs for the breed that you are interested in.
2) The rescue organization for the breed. Read the adoption profiles. Are you seeing a pattern? For example, you want a Beagle. You see that many of the dogs in Beagle rescue were given up because they howl incessantly. Decide whether howling is a deal breaker for you.
3) Attend local dog shows/try to meet as many dogs of your chosen breed as possible.
4) Try to talk to a trusted dog trainer in your area. Ask them what they think about your breed and your family.
5) Talk to the vet and research health problems specific to that breed.

Look for a breeder/Puppy:
!!GOOD BREEDERS ALMOST NEVER ADVERTISE!!! GOOD BREEDERS BARELY BREAK EVEN ON THEIR PUPPIES BECAUSE THEY DO PROPER VET CARE AND HEALTH TESTING This is why you want to go to shows, meet breed owners, and talk to the trainer to get breeder recs. Make a list of breeders. Call/visit. Ask questions. Some good questions:
1) How many litters do you have per year? (One or less is ideal)
2) How many breeds do you breed (One is ideal, two is OK. Three is a no-no)
3) Why did you breed this particular male and female. (The answer should not be "Uh, because they're the same breed? I wanted to make money?" The answer should involve something about the dogs' personalities and strong representation of the breed traits)
4) Can I meet the parents? (You can't always meet Dad, but I think Mom is more important since she socializes the pups. If she's snapping at you, it doesn't bode well for the pup's future personality.
5) What kind of medical care/testing have the pups gotten? (Bonus points if the pups have been tested for breed-specific problems like hip displaysia. At least make sure that the pup is certified free of Parvovirus.)
6) When can we take our puppy home? (Run away if they're trying to give you a normal breed dog before 8 weeks or a toy breed before 12 weeks.)
7) What happens if we ever have to give our dog up? (Good breeders are prepared to take back one of their dogs anytime. Doesn't matter if it has been 10 years. They often put a clause in the purchase contract stipulating as much.
8) Can I call after the purchase to get advice (IF they want you to disappear after your check clears, pass on em.)

Expect the breeder to ask YOU lots of questions about your house, family, and even conduct a home check. They should be interested in finding a good match for their dog, not just getting your money. Expect to take the dog to the vet within a week of purchase.

Find a vet:
1) Ask other pet owners.
2) Ask the 24 hour emergency vet clinic in your area. They've worked with every vet in the area, and know the good from the bad. They probably won't come out and say as much, so you need to phrase your question something like, "We're getting a Bulldog. Do you know of a vet in the area with special experience dealing with the (myriad) health concerns of the breed?)
3) Go to the clinic and check it out. Most have retail items in their lobbies that you can pretend to browse while you watch the staff/client interaction. If its a slow day you might be able to talk to the vet, but it isn't necessarily negative if you can't.

So...there it is. Catherine's by no means exhaustive guide to buying a dog. Statistically, you stand the best chance with an adult mixed breed from the shelter or a private rescue, but I'll admit that both of our dogs are purebreds. Dog people, feel free to add to or disagree with my points :applause:

BTW, the wormer did work. Gross as it is, you wouldn't have been seeing gobs of worms if it didn't. Don't be surprised if even the stuff the vet administers takes a couple of doses. Blech!

[Indianamom2]

Chiming in a little late, but we rescued our dog from the local county humane shelter about a year and a half ago. She came to us with worms. Terrible worms. I had never had a dog before, so I didn't realize she was infected. She had diarrhea a lot in the beginning, but the shelter told us that was due to a change in food...NOT.

I discovered her worm problem when I woke up to her puking in our bedroom in the middle of the night...and the puke was full of live worms. That was probably the single most disgusting thing I've seen in a long time.

My point is, with all due respect to the "director of the animal shelter's" post, that even when you try to do the right thing with regard to buying an animal...even when you have made a vet appt. (which can take a few weeks just to be seen)...things like this happen.

And with all due respect to whomever said that the worms that dog get cannot be passed to humans....this is false. Our vet made sure that we were very careful since we had a then-3 year old.

Good luck with the new puppy...the worms can be cured and you will have a MUCH happier puppy on your hands.

Christina

[vejemom]

JUst adding - Ohiomom, enjoy your new ABD. They're great dogs. Our neighbor's ADB recently saved their cat from an attack by a flock of turkey vultures. She saw the commotion from the window and was rushing out when the dog roared in to rescue his friend. He charged the birds so the cat could run to safety.

Is yours a Johnson or a Scott bloodline?

[Radosti]

Chiming in a little late, but we rescued our dog from the local county humane shelter about a year and a half ago. She came to us with worms. Terrible worms. I had never had a dog before, so I didn't realize she was infected. She had diarrhea a lot in the beginning, but the shelter told us that was due to a change in food...NOT.

I discovered her worm problem when I woke up to her puking in our bedroom in the middle of the night...and the puke was full of live worms. That was probably the single most disgusting thing I've seen in a long time.

My point is, with all due respect to the "director of the animal shelter's" post, that even when you try to do the right thing with regard to buying an animal...even when you have made a vet appt. (which can take a few weeks just to be seen)...things like this happen.

And with all due respect to whomever said that the worms that dog get cannot be passed to humans....this is false. Our vet made sure that we were very careful since we had a then-3 year old.

Good luck with the new puppy...the worms can be cured and you will have a MUCH happier puppy on your hands.

Christina


I am the director of an animal RESCUE, not a shelter. My fosters get proper care. I take them from local shelters when they run out of time. They almost ALWAYS come to me full of worms, fleas and ticks. Shelters/pounds are holding environments for stray/unwanted pets. Rescues are volunteer organizations who do their utmost to make sure the animal is fully vetter, socialized, tested... you name it, prior to going to a permanent home. Are there bad rescues, absolutely, people get into rescue and become overwhelmed, so their standards take a downward slide. But most rescues do it because they cannot stand by and watch highly adoptable animals die.

This is the dewormer I use. It is very expensive, but phenomenal at clearing out everything:
http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20080326163650/www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-50047-45567-drontal.jpg

[ohiomom1121]

JUst adding - Ohiomom, enjoy your new ABD. They're great dogs. Our neighbor's ADB recently saved their cat from an attack by a flock of turkey vultures. She saw the commotion from the window and was rushing out when the dog roared in to rescue his friend. He charged the birds so the cat could run to safety.

Is yours a Johnson or a Scott bloodline?
Thanks! She's Johnson.

[Indianamom2]

Radosti,

I'm sure that you do your personal best to take of your animals in your rescue facility. (I'm sorry I mistakenly called it a "shelter", I just didn't have time to go back and find your exact title again. It wasn't intended as any kind of attack or slight.)

However, even you admit that not everyone holds themselves to those same high standards. I'm sure that the original poster did not intend to buy a puppy from someone who didn't take care of the animal, but everyone....EVERYONE makes mistakes sometimes or gives someone the benefit of the doubt and is burned by it.

No one is attacking you or your organization or what you do. For what it's worth, I have a cat from a "rescue" organization too. Still, no matter what group you choose from which to adopt, ultimately it ends up being the luck of the draw.

That was my only point. It was no one's fault, except the irresponsible seller. Period.

Christina